Board 8 > If you use rewind/save state to finish a game, did you beat it?

(+) Yeah! (+)

MariaTaylor posted...

this is only a valid position if you are admitting that 'using rewind states is the correct way to play' and feeling that anyone who disagrees with that position is 'attacking you.'

...What? No, not at all. It's saying it's a VALID way to play, since the initial argument is specifically that it isn't.

Defending yourself isn't belittling the other side. If you walk up to a group of people watching anime and go "Watching anime is for gay nerds and makes you less of a man," they aren't then belittling you if they go "No, it doesn't make you a gay nerd or less of a man."

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firstly, that example is WAY more extreme than what is going on here.

this is more like if a guy came up to you and started hollering about how sports are better than anime

then you started going into other discussions and talking about how everyone who likes sports more than anime are elitist assholes


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MariaTaylor posted...

but aren't you doing the exact same thing? the only difference is that you have decided that it 'is' beating a game, while your opposite side has decided that it 'isn't' beating a game. you are acting superior to mike matei. he is acting superior to people who use rewind states.

and if the point is that you don't care, then why do you seem to care so much what mike matei or random people on board 8 to consider to be not a valid way of beating a game? how does this affect you in any way unless you value their opinions?

The difference is that one side doesn't have an air of obnoxious gatekeeping led by some guy picking rhetoric-laden fights with strawmen.

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THAT is what you are doing

you just can't see it because you believe yourself to be unquestionably right

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MariaTaylor posted...

this is almost verbatim the exact stance you're taking

you're essentially saying that make matei should just 'deal with it' that people are going to use save states, but also in the same exact discussion claim that you aren't doing this

Like, this is crazy.

This is basically saying that if you are attacked for being gay, or black, or liking the color cyan, or being a Miami Dolphins fan, or whatever, you're wrong for defending yourself because you're saying they should just "deal with it."

If just "deal with it" means "Don't go out of your way to belittle people for this," then... Okay? How is that a crazy stance to have?

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NBIceman posted...

The difference is that one side doesn't have an air of obnoxious gatekeeping led by some guy picking rhetoric-laden fights with strawmen.

it's funny because that is exactly what I see when reading this topic.

you guys have created this salty strawman gamer that you're all relentlessly bashing


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MariaTaylor posted...

then you started going into other discussions and talking about how everyone who likes sports more than anime are elitist assholes

That's literally not what's happening.

The discussion in question is that people who feel the need to shout at anime fans that sports are better than anime are elitist assholes.

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what in the world

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Like, if you like sports better than anime, fantastic.

If you like anime better than sports, fantastic.

But if you feel the need to attempt to belittle the other side because your thing is so much better, then yes, you are an asshole.

Nobody here has once said "Beating games with rewind and savestates is better and the true way to beat games and if you don't use them you didn't beat the game."

But people have specifically said "If you use rewind or savestates you didn't beat the game."

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StealThisSheen posted...

Like, this is crazy.

This is basically saying that if you are attacked for being gay, or black, or liking the color cyan, or being a Miami Dolphins fan, or whatever, you're wrong for defending yourself because you're saying they should just "deal with it."

If just "deal with it" means "Don't go out of your way to belittle people for this," then... Okay? How is that a crazy stance to have?

no.

see above.


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StealThisSheen posted...

That's literally not what's happening.

really?

so you're talking to mike matei in this topic?

or what I said is correct?

choose carefully, only one of these things can be true


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MariaTaylor posted...

really?

so you're talking to mike matei in this topic?

or what I said is correct?

choose carefully, only one of these things can be true

In the post where I said the TC sounded like an elitist asshole, which he even admitted could come off that way and apologized for it, he SPECIFICALLY repeated Mike Matei's rhetoric and said "Using rewinds is cheating, so you didn't beat the game, the game beat you."

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StealThisSheen posted...

In the post where I said the TC sounded like an elitist asshole, which he even admitted could come off that way and apologize, he SPECIFICALLY repeated Mike Matei's rhetoric and said "Using rewinds is cheating, so you didn't beat the game, the game beat you."

so you're saying the difference between you and TC is that he realized he was sounding elitist and was able to admit it, while you're apparently unable to do so.


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MariaTaylor posted...

so you're saying the difference between you and TC is that he realized he was sounding elitist and was able to admit it, while you're apparently unable to do so.

I'm not telling anybody they didn't beat a game. He did.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

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MariaTaylor posted...

it's funny because that is exactly what I see when reading this topic.

you guys have created this salty strawman gamer that you're all relentlessly bashing

No, we haven't. We have a direct quote from the guy that started the whole discussion (again, for absolutely no reason and provoked by absolutely nothing) saying that finishing a game with these functions is akin to slapping him in the face. We didn't have to create anything.

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StealThisSheen posted...

Tell me where I'm wrong.

dude lol

you literally have this image in your head of yourself that you are so virtuous, you are somehow comparing yourself to defending gay minorities

read your own posts

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Person A: You did this X way so you're stupid.
Person B: Telling people they're stupid for doing things X way makes you sound like an elitist asshole.

Maria: PERSON B HOW DARE YOU

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MariaTaylor posted...

dude lol

you literally have this image in your head of yourself that you are so virtuous, you are somehow comparing yourself to defending gay minorities

read your own posts

So you can't tell me where I'm wrong?

Tell me where I told somebody how they must beat a game like the other side has.

I'll wait.

If your entire argument is that it's not okay to tell people that they shouldn't belittle others, then your argument isn't worth replying to further.

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NBIceman posted...

No, we haven't. We have a direct quote from the guy that started the whole discussion (again, for absolutely no reason and provoked by absolutely nothing) saying that finishing a game with these functions is akin to slapping him in the face. We didn't have to create anything.

you are taking mike matei's statement and applying his argument to an entire subset of people that you are mocking, holding them to the same standard as if they made the same remarks, despite the fact that most of them never said anything to you first, and most of them probably don't feel the same way that mike matei does -- they just happen to have some opinions in common which, apparently, makes them elitist assholes akin to the same level of people who go around bashing gays and minorities.

you are taking people who don't acknowledge that you beat the game, by their definition, and you are trying to SHAME them into having the same definition as you.


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Alright, you have a nice day lmao

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StealThisSheen posted...

Person A: You did this X way so you're stupid.
Person B: Telling people they're stupid for doing things X way makes you sound like an elitist asshole.

Maria: PERSON B HOW DARE YOU

[a dramatic reenactment of what is not actually happening in this topic]

StealThisSheen posted...

So you can't tell me where I'm wrong?

I just did

StealThisSheen posted...

If your entire argument is that it's not okay to tell people that they shouldn't belittle others, then your argument isn't worth replying to further.

no, this is the stance you keep trying to force me to defend despite the fact that I've refuted it multiple times, because you know you can't reply to my actual stance


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NBIceman posted...

Alright, you have a nice day lmao

k


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MariaTaylor posted...

you are taking people who don't acknowledge that you beat the game, by their definition, and you are trying to SHAME them into having the same definition as you.

Nobody is doing this.

Nobody got on Drak's case when he said he feels like it isn't beating the game, because he didn't tell somebody "No, the game beat you."

People got on TC's case because he flat out belittled them directly.

The entire discussion is "If you can't stop yourself from telling somebody that they didn't beat a game because they used rewind, you sound like an elitist asshole."

You're acting like because we're not replying to Mike Matei directly, we can't hold that opinion or discuss it, even though somebody literally did it in this topic.

That's really dumb.

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MariaTaylor posted...

I just did

No, you didn't. You just insulted me.

I'll wait a little bit longer, though.

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StealThisSheen posted...

The entire discussion is "If you can't stop yourself from telling somebody that they didn't beat a game because they used rewind, you sound like an elitist asshole."

this entire topic is you guys patting yourselves on the back for having the 'right' opinion

I guess the sad thing is that while you are perfectly capable of trying to use subtle shame against the people who disagree with you, you don't even have the courage to stand behind your own opinion and will just keep claiming stuff like 'oh no one is directly attacking drak!'

StealThisSheen posted...

No, you didn't. You just insulted me.

you feel insulted because I told you what you did wrong.

there is literally no way past this. you just created a mental paradox where if I criticize you it's not valid if I hurt your feelings, but me saying anything critical will always hurt your feelings -- so you never have to consider anything I say valid.


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You haven't pointed out where I've directly told the other side "No, YOU haven't beaten the game unless you've used rewind" like you accused me of directly.

You haven't pointed out where we actually attacked somebody who didn't belittle us like you accused us of directly.

You keep refusing to actually back up your argument and instead jump to "Oh you're sOoOoO virtuous!"

In other words, typical Maria.

You don't have substance, so you instantly jump to character attacks.

Have a nice life!

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StealThisSheen posted...

You haven't pointed out where I've directly told the other side "No, YOU haven't beaten the game unless you've used rewind" like you accused me of directly.

You haven't pointed out where we actually attacked somebody who didn't belittle us like you accused us of directly.

You keep refusing to actually back up your argument and instead jump to "Oh you're sOoOoO virtuous!"

In other words, typical Maria.

You don't have substance, so you instantly jump to character attacks.

Have a nice life!

^ a person using an actual character attack


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Due to recent events I have decided Maria is wrong about everything.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Due to recent events I have decided Maria is wrong about everything.

from my point of view, the jedi are wrong

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the answer is yes, you beat it. congrats

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HashtagSEP posted...

People that feel the need to dictate what is and isn't "beating" a game feel the need to make it a competition in order to try to feel superior to others for some reason. They don't want to feel on the same level as somebody who used rewind or savestates, thus they want to insist it's not beating the game. That way they can continue to look down on others. And just "Oh they used rewind" isn't enough, they feel the need to insist the other person can't say they beat the game at all.

As one of the people who says that using rewind/save states is (generally) not beating the game, it's not about feeling superior to others. It's more about respecting people's accomplishments.

Like, Harrich beats the carnies every year and I think it's neat that he's got the skill and dedication to do that. I've never played a carnival game in my life, so this is not about me feeling superior to anyone; it's about Harrich, a cool dude. If it somehow turned out that Harrich was, I dunno, bribing the carnies to give him infinite retries or something, it would be a letdown.
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What are even lives for when you have save states? That already makes it feel like a different game, specially when you have to go out of your way to acquire them and there's risk involved.

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Well, this topic went places.

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Drakeryn posted...

As one of the people who says that using rewind/save states is (generally) not beating the game, it's not about feeling superior to others. It's more about respecting people's accomplishments.

Like, Harrich beats the carnies every year and I think it's neat that he's got the skill and dedication to do that. I've never played a carnival game in my life, so this is not about me feeling superior to anyone; it's about Harrich, a cool dude. If it somehow turned out that Harrich was, I dunno, bribing the carnies to give him infinite retries or something, it would be a letdown.

I'm specifically referring to people that feel the need to tell others "You didn't beat the game, you cheated," which I believe isn't you. That's where the whole "superiority" issue comes in. If you can just ignore it/not care, or atleast keep it to yourself, then yeah, there's nothing to it.

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Lives are a holdover from when dying meant giving the arcade cabinet another quarter.
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Grimlyn posted...

what in the world

this is an elitist response

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I would personally not consider it beating the game, but I would not go out of my way to tell anyone they didn't beat a game (also can't imagine this situation even coming up in real life). If I had beat a game with some sort of assisted gameplay feature, I'd probably include that when mentioning that I finished the game.

With that said...

StealThisSheen posted...

I'm specifically referring to people that feel the need to tell others "You didn't beat the game, you cheated," which I believe isn't you. That's where the whole "superiority" issue comes in. If you can just ignore it/not care, or atleast keep it to yourself, then yeah, there's nothing to it.

This is a real weird stance. So he's allowed to think it but not tell anyone what he thinks?

This argument is dumb mostly because categorization will always be imperfect (but people love to do it anyway-- see every single argument about genres), but it's also dumb to say that only one side has valid views on how to define this particular phrasing.

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VintageGin posted...

This is a real weird stance. So he's allowed to think it but not tell anyone what he thinks?

I mean... Yeah, kinda.

Like, it's one thing to be discussing it and it comes up. That's fine.

But like the tweet that caused this topic/discussion? That's definitely unnecessary. It's intended to provoke/belittle people. There's no reason to just tell somebody "How you do this is dumb and wrong" out of nowhere if it's something subjective like this.

There are plenty of things we think but shouldn't just outright say to people. I thought my coworker's sweater was hideous, but it's not really my place to go lecture him on how bad his sweater is unless he asks.

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I don't see why telling someone he really didn't beat a game would be taken as an insult.

A: But you see... you didn't really beat the game.
B: What?! You elitist... asshole!

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mike is allowed to have his opinion as long as he keeps it to himself

otherwise known as 'not being allowed to have that opinion'

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If you can't express a controversial opinion respectably, then yeah, you probably shouldn't share that opinion.

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VintageGin posted...

This is a real weird stance. So he's allowed to think it but not tell anyone what he thinks?

i mean

VintageGin posted...

I would personally not consider it beating the game, but I would not go out of my way to tell anyone they didn't beat a game

I think this is what he means

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lordjers posted...

I don't see why telling someone he really didn't beat a game would be taken as an insult.

A: But you see... you didn't really beat the game.

Maybe if he expressed it like that instead of stating in no uncertain terms that he doesn't accept it as beating the game. This wasn't merely a "I disagree." It was, "I don't accept this as valid."

How you say it, not just what you say, matters, as it turns out.

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StealThisSheen posted...

If you can't express a controversial opinion respectably, then yeah, you probably shouldn't share that opinion.

1. thinking that there is a difference between beating a game with save states and without save states is not a controversial opinion
2. you've arguably made posts in this topic that were more disrespectful than mike's tweet, so maybe you should take your own advice

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Yeah, that. What MZero said.

There's a difference between, say, bringing up your thoughts in a discussion like this, which is obviously fine, and just randomly deciding "I'm going to obnoxiously proclaim this out of nowhere."

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MariaTaylor posted...

thinking that there is a difference between beating a game with save states and without save states is not a controversial opinion

That'd be nice if that was what the opinion was instead of a gross misrepresentation, then, wouldn't it?

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StealThisSheen posted...

That'd be nice if that was what the opinion was instead of a gross misrepresentation, then, wouldn't it?

^ an example of someone having a respectful discussion and not being sarcastic or condescending at all


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Well, you chose to blatantly misrepresent the argument. That's not on me.

Seriously, spent enough time on this. Have a nice evening.

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"you didn't beat the game if you used save states"

"beating the game without save states is not the same as beating it with save states"

such a gross misrepresentation! so dishonest!

lol

you should have committed to backing out of this conversation the last time you pretended to do so, because your responses now are just beyond fucking lame


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because you know I am 100% right. you are being disrespectful, dismissive, sarcastic, and condescending. far more than mike matei's initial tweet. you are being way more elitist in this topic than he ever was.

and since you have no response to that, all you can do is make another dismissive remark and run away.


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