Board 8 > transience presents: the top 75 matches in contest history: part 2, the top 25.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Starcraft was the domino that caused Zelda to crumble like a house of cards.

Checkmate.
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Also, if we did get an all Zelda final four, that or the next one (where Link beat Cloud to retake his crown) might have been the last contest.
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Carriers have arrived

What now Link
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Mario Kart beats Mega Man today (my poor account)
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Mario Kart beats Mega Man today (my poor account)

I would still take Mega Man.

Mario Kart is a weird scenario where everyone plays it, but I feel like it doesn't inspire the same passion against an institution like Mega Man. People call Smash a party game as a form of disrespect, but I feel like it's a label better befitting Mario Kart instead.

Now, when I saw Mario Kart against Mega Man X in Metalmind's mock Series bracket, there I pulled the trigger because X's series is less all around strong and has some dark sheep (X7, I'm looking at you) that would allow
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I'd also take Mega Man. Mario Kart's prime is in the rearview mirror just as Mega Man's is so I don't really see it having a reason to turn a 58-42 outright.
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Mega Man would kill Mario Kart today.
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Is Mario Kart really any weaker now than it was before? The recent entries have sold well and were well received. I don't really see a reason to believe the series has crashed. With that said, Mega Man killed Mario Kart in their match. Mario Kart holding steady doesn't turn that into a win.
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Mario Kart always sells extremely well, but I feel like the site would only care about SMK and MK64.
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Even assuming that, do we have reason to believe this site has stopped caring about those two games? Being from the 90s is largely a positive on this site.
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17.



There's a lot to unpack with this shocking result. Let's start with the history angle: Mario had beaten Cloud the year prior. We knew it was nonsense but it wasn't like Cloud was gonna 60/40 him. Luigi, logically, is closer to Mario than Squall is to Cloud. Luigi is an icon. Squall was in 2002 and got whipped by Snake. Luigi is the logical pick here in a world where Mario is equal to Cloud.

Round 1 comes and goes without too much of a surprise. Squall gets 60% on Jill and Luigi triples Ratchet. No big deal, really. Luigi has to be the favourite going in. The oracle expects Luigi to win with 60%.

NOPE. It's the exact opposite. Squall drops 60% on Luigi in a shocking result. I wasn't here, but my understanding is the board went wild when this happened. How was Squall this strong?

The answer was that Square in 2003 was much different than in 2002, most likely due to the release of Kingdom Hearts. Squall went from being a midcarder to an elite. It was the most obvious sign early on that Cloud was going to be good - but that was too premature at the time. We needed to see Cloud do damage against some good competition first.

Now, here's my counter take - I actually just think Luigi sucked. He got beat worse than Jill! Barely, and Jill wasn't too bad back in those days, but still. Mario also sucked in 2003, getting creamed by Sephiroth. Who the hell knows what to make of Crono/Mario. Bowser beat Yoshi and then get destroyed by Cloud. Squall was better, no doubt - but this result makes him look like a monster. Luigi beat Ratchet like he would beat Pac-Man -- quite badly -- and then got creamed by Squall.

This result might be a tad bit overblown. The reaction wasn't, though, and it was the first clear sign that Square was for real in 2003. This match is a big deal.
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Yeah, Luigi was leading at the freeze, so everyone thought the match was going according to plan, but when Squall took the lead with the next update, people went nuts. That match is why B8 has a minimum user level.

It also birthed the Fanta Shokata fad, which was an amazing part of SC2K3.
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Team Rocket Elite posted...

Even assuming that, do we have reason to believe this site has stopped caring about those two games? Being from the 90s is largely a positive on this site.

I don't believe the site has stopped caring about Mario Kart or Mario Kart 64, nor do I believe any releases since have moved the needle much

I don't believe the site has stopped caring about Mega Man 2-5, nor do I believe any releases since have moved the needle much

Or in other words I see no real reason to expect the matchup to change much since 2006.
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oh man I remember fanta shokata

that brings me back 15 years
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LeonhartFour posted...

It also birthed the Fanta Shokata fad, which was an amazing part of SC2K3.

This is the first time I've ever heard of that fad before.
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I've always been surprised by how weak Luigi is.
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Well, Luigi isn't that weak anymore!

Friendly reminder of another Janus upset special: KOS-MOS > Luigi 2005

Which looks absurd now but wasn't totally preposterous back then...!
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LeonhartFour posted...

Starcraft was the domino that caused Zelda to crumble like a house of cards.

Checkmate.

A little bit deeper than this of course... but yeah. That

I was making fun of you
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LeonhartFour posted...

I was making fun of you

I dont care... Im right.

LOL okay bro
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http://www.gamefaqscontests.com/gallery/albums/sc2k3/sum03b35.jpg

I remember there being a bit of an uproar over Luigi just being "uigi" in the match picture, because CJayC used the L on Luigi's hat as part of Luigi's name.
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I still don't really get why Luigi is so weak

Everyone who knows Mario also knows Luigi, and Luigi consistently outperforms Mario in "favorite Mario character" polls, and I feel like Luigi just generally has a reputation as being cooler because... idk, he's Luigi

and yet, not only is Mario stronger, he's WAY stronger. and this is still true, despite the fact that Luigi's stock has ONLY risen over time

well ok Luigi might be a little closer since he was decently close to Tifa but... I don't know, it really feels like Luigi should be closer to a Zelda-like presence than he is. I don't really "get" why he isn't stronger

Paratroopa1 posted...

I still don't really get why Luigi is so weak

Everyone who knows Mario also knows Luigi, and Luigi consistently outperforms Mario in "favorite Mario character" polls, and I feel like Luigi just generally has a reputation as being cooler because... idk, he's Luigi

and yet, not only is Mario stronger, he's WAY stronger. and this is still true, despite the fact that Luigi's stock has ONLY risen over time

well ok Luigi might be a little closer since he was decently close to Tifa but... I don't know, it really feels like Luigi should be closer to a Zelda-like presence than he is. I don't really "get" why he isn't stronger

Luigi has way less games he has his name in, he's flat out not choosable in games like Mario 64 and Sunshine, has to be unlocked way later in Galaxy, etc

Basically outside the 2D games where you dont even need to play as Luigi to beat the game it's pretty easy to see why.

Plus maybe some people don't care for Luigi being the cowardly weird brother these days
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There's a lot of people who don't like Luigi's characterization as a coward and "slippery", for lack of a better word. I, too, wish Luigi could be closer to Mario in strength!

(Edit): I also agree with what Ange said.
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I also think a lot of Mario's votes are just RESPECT more than genuinely loving the character. Luigi doesn't really get those.
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In a lot of those early games, you actually had to plug in a second controller and select 2-player to even so much as see Luigi. I went through so much of my gaming life barely even seeing the green Mario.
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Maybe I'm just sort of a weirdo in that I don't automatically attach myself to the main characters though

Like I absolutely love the Mario and Zelda series obviously but neither Mario nor Link mean anything to me in particular really. I don't feel any strong feelings about them

I like almost all the side Mario characters more than Mario himself, don't really know why, they all just feel easier to identify with than Mario himself I guess? Like in Mario Party, Mario would probably always be my last choice because I don't feel like I can make Mario "belong" to me whereas you better fucking believe I can own Dry Bones

A lot of voting for main character is just voting for the character that represents your favorite games. It's as simple as that. For a smaller-scale example, Lloyd Irving is almost no one's favorite character from Tales of Symphonia but he's the only one still getting in.
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FinaIFantasyV posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

I was making fun of you

I dont care... Im right.

I mean, a bit of an explanation would be in order.

1. Starcraft cheats out a win over WW.
2. ???
3. Zelda cwumbles.
4. Profit.

...doesn't really cut it.
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Zelda used up all its resources to try and counter mass carriers, leaving the rest of the games defenseless

The fools
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Pretty sure Snake > Mega Man killed Sir Chris. At least it was in the same contest he had killed Heroic Mario when Vincent prevented Ganondorf > Sonic.
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The_Ctes posted...

Pretty sure Snake > Mega Man killed Sir Chris. At least it was in the same contest he had killed Heroic Mario when Vincent prevented Ganondorf > Sonic.

Oh yeah, now that you mention it, that sounds right.
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Also I love me some protagonists but give me Luigi over Mario all day every day
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redrocket posted...

FinaIFantasyV posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

I was making fun of you

I dont care... Im right.

I mean, a bit of an explanation would be in order.

1. Starcraft cheats out a win over WW.
2. ???
3. Zelda cwumbles.
4. Profit.

...doesn't really cut it.

Once we get to the bullshit that was SMB3 over LoZ I will explain.

no thanks not interested
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SMB3 > LoZ was the most obvious choice for the final LoZ 4 to be missed. Maybe Wind Waker because there were more options for it to lose.
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16.



We've seen a lot of stuff in this contest, but we've never seen anything even remotely like this match. Round 2 Draven is, by a considerable amount, the strongest performance in contest history. It's so bad that I need to recap it to remind you. Draven was at 17.86% at 00:10. The next update is +5%, then +4%, then +6%.

This continues for the next hour. By 00:30, 18% has doubled to 36%. By 1:00, it's at 53%. By 2:00 it's 62%. It rises all night until we're sitting at 68% by morning.

This isn't against Chester and Guybrush Threepwood, either. Ryu is legit. Mega Man X is elite. Together they're in our top 30 at worst, but Draven just demolished them. What does Link get here, maybe 45% if you're being generous? This thing was disgusting, but the sheer power of it was also an awesome spectacle. Oh my god. How is Link going to stand up to this? Starcraft couldn't do this. L-Block couldn't do this. Undertale, which came later, couldn't have done this.

We only ever saw this version of Draven once, a Draven that just wanted to embarrass the contest. The previous night vote (these were 12 hour matches) got 27732 votes. Draven's match got 84778 and the one after it got 27997. Draven literally tripled the number of votes on his own. That's insane. The 2013 contest was so far beyond being over.
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transience posted...

20.



This match is great. Majora and FFX is like baby FF7/OOT, which is depressing in its own way but hey that's gamefaqs for ya. We just move down the line to the baby versions when our big dogs aren't there.

Majora put up a similar number on MGS3 that FFX did on RE4, and MGS3/RE4 were pretty much identical in the previous contest, so it makes sense that this was super close. We were eyeing this match ever since Majora pounded Wind Waker and it lived up to the hype. FF7 can't hang with OOT but these two were perfect for each other. It's like CT/LTTP - just a great match between two strong games (by 2000s standards, anyway).

But there's one other thing here. In my opinion, this is the last classic gamefaqs match. By that I mean, it had a high number of votes, it had clearly established trends, it had a 1500ish vote lead comeback, there was an afterschool vote, etc. It had classic FF vs. Zelda trends too. Majora went up early, FFX put up what felt like an untouchable lead and Majora made an incredible comeback in the day. FFX even cut 200 votes in the last 2 hours just like the Knuckles and Maguses of the world used to. It had everything that those old classic matches had.

You stopped getting that after this. (you might have had it in the rivalry rumble, I forget. those matches don't count anyway.) After this, our vote totals dropped by two thirds, and then three fourths, and we started having to come up with artificial ways to keep our vote totals looking okay like double votes for registered users. 2018 was a strong contest with a great bracket but there's no movement and little interest. A contest was going on and you barely even noticed any new people show up on the board. It was a match amongst people aged 25-35 and the results showed with no new characters being good. Except 2B. That's so weird.

Anyway, I say this not to dump on more recent contests as I really did enjoy the 2018 version. It was a great return to form after all the dumb fourways and threeways and gimmick contests. But FFX/Majora is a match that should be celebrated as the last of its kind. It's too bad FFX didn't win for some kind of supposed balance between the good and bad sides of the force, but I kinda like the Majora result more in 2018 than I did in 2010.

Hard to believe I was 200 votes away from winning a cash prize
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transience posted...

What does Link get here, maybe 45% if you're being generous?

Probably closer to 55%. He should just about double Mega Man X, who'd put Ryu in a distant but still oddly respectable third. Something like 54/27/19 sounds reasonable to me.

But yeah, this is still the strongest any entrant has ever been in a contest match. Link would never be able to sniff 60 here, let alone double both entrants.
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I wouldn't go that high. Link only got 60% on Raiden and SFF'd Yoshi.
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So Luigi VS Squall is the reason we have a minimum user level? Wuigi? Seriously?
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transience posted...

I wouldn't go that high. Link only got 60% on Raiden and SFF'd Yoshi.

I think the disagreement is because Yo's using current Link, while you're taking 2013 Link. Given that, (2013) Link getting 45% in Draven's place seems about right to me.
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15.



I bet it's hard for people who weren't here to understand just what the big deal was with this match. A character was overrated -- so what?

First of all, the pre-contest portion of 2005 basically discussed two things and only two things: Mario/Samus and the Devil Division. Between Vincent, Squall and Magus, there was a ton to fight over. There were also those who had Terra, Dante, Kerrigan, etc but we'll ignore those for this writeup. Most people didn't really trust anyone here, but probably 70% of the brackets had Magus winning the division.

Magus had an incredible amount of hype going into the 2003 contest, his debut. Some people thought he was better than Crono. Some thought he could give Link a fight. He basically did as expected on Link, but he did beat Ganondorf. Not by a lot, though, and people thought he would walk all over Ganon. Magus probably overperformed because of his status as the next elite character and he put up a pretty decent number on Link. There are only a dozen or so guys who could legit hold Link under a doubling, maybe less. Magus was basically Vincent before Vincent. That was his rep.

Except, he had these cracks in his resume. If you ask me what I know about Luca Blight, I'll say that he didn't put up a big enough number on Magus and that's about it. The same goes for Sam Fisher. I don't even know what their performance was at this point but I heard it so much during 2005 that it's etched into my memory. People thought he was overrated as in, he might lose to Squall. But nobody thought he could fall to freaking Knuckles.

This match started and Magus was ahead and looked okay.. 58% at the freeze was underwhelming, but he'd survive. Then the :10 update came and everyone went nuts. He dropped another percent, and another percent, and soon he was under 55 with the whole day to go. Everyone knew what was about to happen and the board just ripped at the seams. Magus stopped gaining by 2am, lost the lead by morning and ended up down by almost 2500 votes. He ended up getting it under 2000 by the end. 100% of the Gurus picked Magus in this match. 100% in the oracle too. A ton of people felt vindicated, but they picked Magus too. Everyone had Magus winning this. Everyone.

So what happened? Well, Magus was overrated in 2003. But the bigger problem was 2004. He was fed to Crono in 04. He also got frozen out of the villain contest in 2005, where he likely would have gotten exposed by Ganondorf or Bowser, or even some of the earlier round guys who weren't going to beat him but would have cast some doubt on him. We just didn't have enough data on Magus. Everyone assumed he was great, but CT fell off in 05 and he dipped just enough for Knuckles to pull it off.

As for Knuckles, he had a huge bandwagon form behind him and overperformed on Squall. Even to this day, whenever I think of Knuckles I have to think about Magus. This one rattled one of our best contests and is remembered with clarity a decade plus later. It also shook people's confidence in the stats which is a whole other topic that we'll get to.
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45 leaves too much percentage on the table. 45/30/25 puts both of them a little too close to Link for it to be realistic. We're only three years removed from Link putting up 70% on Sonic; he won't wilt all the way to 60% on MMX, who most people here consider a hair below MM Classic anyway.

I'm not raining on Draven's parade - it still WAS easily the strongest any contest entrant had ever looked, but I doubt Link would have had trouble at least hitting 50% in his place.
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Wow, Magus/Knuckles at #15, that seems low to me
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I remember a pre-contest AIM convo with Ulti back in 2005 (the days when I was 19 and totally sucking up to him). Actually, it only took three minutes to find thanks to AIM logging all my convos from those days:

yoblazer33 (8:24:26 PM): Must make you happy having Magus a lock in his division? =P
Ultimaterializer (8:24:33 PM): no
Ultimaterializer (8:24:34 PM): not at all
Ultimaterializer (8:24:49 PM): I mean damn, he only gets to beat Knuckles, Squall, and some other idiot with an annoying fanbase
Ultimaterializer (8:25:04 PM): Seeing swirldude's favorite character get his face kicked in by Magus is awesome

Sooooo yeah, it took us by surprise.
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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Ultimaterializer (8:25:04 PM): Seeing swirldude's favorite character get his face kicked in by Magus is awesome

@swirIdude your comments?
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transience posted...

100% of the Gurus picked Magus in this match. 100% in the oracle too. A ton of people felt vindicated, but they picked Magus too. Everyone had Magus winning this. Everyone.

Everyone but one person (who didn't enter the Guru or Oracle): fucking Smurf. He may have been the only Board 8 regular to call it; I still remember that.

I also made a topic titled something like "if only Magus had gotten this fucking pic, he would have won" and asked a Photoshop savvy friend to make this:

https://imgur.com/dCkCHkB

Got quite a few XDs with that bad boy!
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I'm kicking myself for not predicting that one, and I was practically from the moment I finalized my predictions.
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