Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 464: Keep Her Name Out Your Mouth

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think this might be the biggest argument in support of what youre saying, Lopen:

Ambrose vs Rollins got ***
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I actually don't care about star ratings and I tend to tune Dave out when he mentions them. I tend to think Dave has really good insight when he actually discusses why things do or don't work and I wish he'd stick to that more.

I love listening to Lance though. I actually prefer his show to most of the others now because he's really smart and is able to concisely explain why he feels a way, and I tend to agree with most everything he says.

both you and lopen need to check out pwtorch/wade keller audio. starting with the fix that i posted earlier, and then, i've not listened yet but this week's flagship show (which is always free) has jason powell on who is one of the best guests there.

https://www.spreaker.com/show/wkpwp
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Yeah, probably. I mean I haven't seen that PPV so I can't comment on that or AJ/Bryan but to me that's a natural progression when you're watching filth from Raw/SD every week and it's probably better than the meat of the chaff you're rating there just by merit of being given time. But realistically, very few matches on Raw or SD deserve more than * these days otherwise they'd be enjoyable shows.

But if you go overboard with comparative rating, you're putting the bad RAW matches at *, then *1/4 for ones slightly better, *1/2 for slightly better than that, and suddenly you have a bog standard SD ME level match getting *** when really, it probably doesn't deserve one since you don't really enjoy it as much as a *** implies.
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Also, I kinda want to talk about Lacey Evans for some reason.

Mike had brought up that Lacey Evans being brought up now is a bad idea because she has a ton of potential, perhaps more than most people, because she's a mother, former marine, and has an awesome story, but they still don't have her character figured out and she's not great in the ring. And that bringing her up now to put her in the hands of Vince is just going to kill her dead when she ought to be given more time to improve because the women are expected to have good matches nowadays to get over, and Lacey Evans does seem special.

And I've always kind of thought that Lacey was probably one of the best options they had for a home-grown female talent. Her gimmick never perplexed me as much as other people (because I think a lot of critics just look too far into it). But my girlfriend had seen a bit of Lacey Evans back in the day and she thought she was actually really cool, and she doesn't know anything about wrestling. And then when I actually did tell her she's a former marine and posts cute stuff of her daughter all the time on Instagram she fell in love. She shows me Lacey Evans stuff from her Instagram every so often now.

I actually hope she succeeds, but it does seem like she's set up for disaster.
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this AJ/Bryan match is a special case tbh where I can see plenty of people not rating it that highly. I came away from it thinking it was easily the WWE MotY but it was because it was such a different style. It's for sure a match that might not resonate as much with some people.
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I don't even know what to say about people who aren't voting for CIMA anymore. And to a lesser extent, Akiyama. The fact that neither is in is an absolute joke.
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DG is too regional I guess

Akiyama probably loses points for not being Kobashis successor in NOAH.
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Steiner posted...

I came away from it thinking it was easily the WWE MotY but it was because it was such a different style. It's for sure a match that might not resonate as much with some people.

I mean it probably was for Dave too, which is fine, but I'm just saying I feel like the way Dave rates things WWE MotY can't possibly get below ****3/4 by default because he's inflated enough other WWE matches over the course of the year.

But I mean, if you're talking raw enjoyment gained from a match the best WWE match of the year might not deserve more than a flat **** really. It's just not been a very strong year for them.
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Is there anyone who listens anybody OTHER than "Big Dave", you know, just as an "Alternative"? (Scary concept, I know)
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Hardcore_Adult posted...

Is there anyone who listens anybody OTHER than "Big Dave", you know, just as an "Alternative"? (Scary concept, I know)

good question
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have you tried watching anything OTHER than "The E", you know, just as an "Alternative"? (Scary concept, I know)
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Re: Lacey Evans

I dont know much about her, but sometimes it can be good to fast track someone from developmental and develop on the main stage itself instead of coming up pre established in nxt.

Look at Elias compared to s lot of other nxt call ups. Maybe this is actually a good sign.
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Like I guess my point is

For me, and I'm new to this star rating thing so I mean obviously my standards don't apply to everyone, a **** match is like... a match that when you'd rewatch a PPV or show, would be one you'd look forward to. You might even rewatch a show just for that match, or at minimum rewatch the match standalone on Youtube.

*** is just a match you enjoyed in the moment but wouldn't necessarily make a point to watch again.

** range and less is basically passable time filler or worse. Almost no Raw or SD matches get above this these days.

I feel like long ago Dave's ratings were closer to this but at some point he just started rating things comparatively in excess and as a result you get stuff at *** that's like, not really very good just above varying tiers of garbage you see weekly, and **** starts to be where the legit good matches start as a symptom of overthinking whether this garbage Raw match was better or worse than this garbage SD match.

I mean that's not necessarily wrong or anything but it kinda compresses the usable segment of the rating system a lot and makes it more about ranking than rating.
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I feel like pointing out the one and only exception of people who have succeeded from NXT in the past few years does not support your claim very well, especially since Elias is still struggling to get any of his matches over.
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NXT does more harm than good I think. If you see someone you're pretty sure can be a star you should just toss them into Raw in a midcard role immediately.

The biggest stars of recent time skipped it or all but skipped it outright. AJ Styles and Braun Strowman come to mind. Obviously AJ didn't need NXT at all but I mean neither did Joe or Nakamura and I feel like they got "tainted" by being down there too long too.

Guys who linger down there too long get set in bad habits that stunts their growth potential on the main roster.
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I think there's a difference between people in NXT who are already very good like your Joes and Nakamuras and your Lacey Evans and Eliases who need that help though.

I would rather bad habits develop with people who aren't very good while they can actually put on a really good match than then get called up early and can't put on a good match yet.
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Like Braun is an exception to all of this since he skipped developmental. And I think he managed to excel as much as he has because his matches are like the most basic matches imaginable and he was hot shot to working with really good wrestlers on the house show circuit every night who could help him with that.

But I think he's the only relative amateur at this that could possibly benefit from this process. For instance, Lars is a guy who spent forever in developmental and he's actually really good. I don't think he'll have any problems, but it does prove that the system works for a lot of new people.
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Braun Strowman I think is the example of a guy who would suck if he was left on NXT, yet still had fundamental issues to work on when he was called up. He wouldn't have developed his character in a good way down there. If you've got good raw potential you should develop it on the main roster imo.
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Trouble is most NXT graduates are left churning out boring by-the-numbers material or stuck facing jobbers for 5wks straight before anything of any real consequence.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Like Braun is an exception to all of this since he skipped developmental. And I think he managed to excel as much as he has because his matches are like the most basic matches imaginable and he was hot shot to working with really good wrestlers on the house show circuit every night who could help him with that.

But I think he's the only relative amateur at this that could possibly benefit from this process. For instance, Lars is a guy who spent forever in developmental and he's actually really good. I don't think he'll have any problems, but it does prove that the system works for a lot of new people.

Yeah, I forgot about Strowman.

Man, it's amazing to think back to what an absolute trainwreck he was his first year as Beef Stroganoff. Still remember the awful awful match he had with the Dudleys as part of the Wyatt family.
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There are two big problems with NXT.

The first one is expectations.

If you're expected to have excellent matches and be a top star and you have show up with matches that are good or okay and are a midcarder, you're disappointing and as such your stuff isn't as enjoyable.

While if you come in as a Strowman and have okay matches, then good matches, you're seen as improving and thus it makes your growth more enjoyable.

Nakamura/Roode/Bayley/every NXT top star's endgame is to be equal to their past. Strowman's endgame is to be better than Strowman of the past, a constantly changing goal. One is definitely more interesting.

The second is that WWE seems to have it in their heads that being good in NXT at one point is enough to be over on the main roster, when in reality it's meaningless for the vast majority.
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I'm more confused by the call up because they literally don't know what to do with 90% of the women on the main roster, so why add anyone?
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They're going to push her to the moon. She's completely Vince's type.
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TheRock1525 posted...

I'm more confused by the call up because they literally don't know what to do with 90% of the women on the main roster, so why add anyone?

I'm asking that more with regards to Heavy Machinery's call-up. The women at least get time to weave in and out of sight more often than not, and have some change in who fights. There's top of card, mid card, and low card, and the stories don't always make sense and they don't usually get enough development, but I'd say everyone has decent visibility (especially compared to a lot of the men's solo roster).

However, the tag teams? There's the top teams then the joke teams. Anyone in the midcard only shows up after months to chase the titles for a bit or fight with a thrown-together team of two main event solo stars who have a feud at the next pay-per-view.
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Yeah we need more women callups in general. There just aren't enough bodies on that division's roster if you want it to be anything more than a sideshow.
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I finished up The Fix

I am glad to see Todd had the same violent reaction to that Vince/Becky/Charlotte interaction I did.
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So uh, I don't know if you guys have seen the video of a wrestler named Shawn Phoenix who did a 450 off the top rope to the outside and cracked his head open and lost hearing in one ear permanently, but he was actually at the wedding of my buddy who wrestles. I used to jokingly call him Nipples to my buddy because he had awkwardly sharp nipple piercings. I would not advise watching the video, but that's kind of surreal to me.

That said, it was an absolutely stupid spot and he never should have done it and he is lucky to be alive right now.
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Fun fact: Asuka is the only woman in WWE history to win 2 PPV main events.
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Impact is moving to something called the Pursuit network, effective January 11th.

It appears they will be the only non-hunting/fishing show on the network.
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WarThaNemesis2 posted...

Impact is moving to something called the Pursuit network, effective January 11th.

It appears they will be the only non-hunting/fishing show on the network.

Did Pop dump them or did they dump Pop?
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Jakyl25 posted...

WarThaNemesis2 posted...

Impact is moving to something called the Pursuit network, effective January 11th.

It appears they will be the only non-hunting/fishing show on the network.

Did Pop dump them or did they dump Pop?

As far as I can tell Pursuit is connected to Anthem directly and is like half the size of Pop, so this means Impact couldn't find anybody to take them in.
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I harken back to one of my favorite interviews of all time, with the President of PopTV Brad Schwartz when they first got TNA

What will determine if TNA Impact Wrestling is successful on Pop?

The easy answer is ratings, Schwartz said, but for an emerging network like ourselves thats not the be-all, end-all.

He noted: Theres a business side to this. Just 12 months ago, when this show was on Spike, it averaged 1.3-million viewers every week for the entire year. Thats two hours a week for 52 weeks it averaged 1.3-million viewers a week. Thats not spin. Thats Nielsen.

Schwartz added: So you would love to see us build it back up to those levels, and if you talk to [TNA President] Dixie [Carter], surpass those levels. Is that gonna happen in the first month? Is that gonna happen in the first quarter? Is that gonna happen in the second quarter?

Schwartz was impressed with 1.3-million viewers during TNAs Spike days.

Thats a number thats in my head, Schwartz said, and then surpassing it.

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"Pursuit Channel is a natural fit for Impact," said Ed Nordholm, president of Impact Wrestling. "It has a passionate viewership base that correlates strongly with our core audience, and is one of the few broadcast destinations that is expanding its footprint, enjoying a 15 percent increase in distribution this year alone. With Impact Wrestling coming off a tremendous year of audience growth globally and positive fan engagement, we look forward to leveraging our respective resources to bring fans more of the wrestling content they want to see: Tougher, edgier action."

Tremendous year of audience growth eh?

Also its gonna be on at 10PM Friday nights
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Question since I don't watch the E and I haven't seen his name mentioned in a while.

What's my boi La Sombra up to?

I still have fond memories of him as a member of Los Ingobernables.
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Jobbing away at the bottom of SD
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Jakyl25 posted...

Jobbing away at the bottom of SD

This isn't fair.

He's jobbing away at the middle-top of Smackdown.
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I was curious.

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=5596&page=4&search=Smackdown

He has not won a single match since August. Lol
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Oh geez, isn't his contract for another couple of years?

There might not be a los ingobernables for him to return to even if he did opt to leave.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I was curious.

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=5596&page=4&search=Smackdown

He has not won a single match since August. Lol

Looks like he beat R-Truth in September!

A stunning upset
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Whoops, I missed that one in the sea of losses.

Still, with momentum like that we might be seeing him challenge for the title soon.

Edit: Also, keep in mind that Vince was really high on Andrade.
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So what actually went wrong?

He was perhaps the brightest star from Mexico post-Mistico.

He was oozing talent and charisma in the ring and his top runs were fantastic for an at the time young star.
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Vince had him do the thing where he goes out and loses a bunch of close matches.

And then never let him win any.

And then got super confused why he didn't get over.

And then he determined it's Andrade's fault he did not get over.
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And sounds like Trips didn't think it was worth going to bat for him in that case.

La Sombra vs Nakamura was the match that made him shine for me.
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voltch posted...

And sounds like Trips didn't think it was worth going to bat for him in that case.

La Sombra vs Nakamura was the match that made him shine for me.

They could book this match next week and it would be shit because Nakamura doesnt care and La Sombra doesn't care.

And honestly La Sombra struggled to get himself over even in NXT. Hes got like a cool guy gimmick but hes not cool so hes ended up with like a "henpecked/cuckolded by Zelina Vega" gimmick
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Dave thinks the act was doomed when they started making Zelina more of a wrestler than a manager
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Also I dont see how cuckolded applies <_<
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voltch posted...

So what actually went wrong?

He was perhaps the brightest star from Mexico post-Mistico.

He was oozing talent and charisma in the ring and his top runs were fantastic for an at the time young star.

Actually this makes me wonder

Is sin cara still in wwe

Any sin cara
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https://twitter.com/davidbix/status/1076204267881549831?s=21

Oh god

Shes gonna kick Ted out of the HoF now
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But he had a five-star match this year.

Five whole stars!
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ScareChan posted...

voltch posted...

So what actually went wrong?

He was perhaps the brightest star from Mexico post-Mistico.

He was oozing talent and charisma in the ring and his top runs were fantastic for an at the time young star.

Actually this makes me wonder

Is sin cara still in wwe

Any sin cara

Sin Cara and Hunico is still around. I have no idea why.

Oh! Another reason they screwed up Andrade. Remember when he debuted and they pushed his debut against a jobber a couple weeks. And then they hyped a match between Andrade and Sin Cara for next week. A month later Andrade and Sin Cara had a match and it was just a match.

How did this guy not get over?
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