Board 8 > World Cup Discussion Topic 6

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah the idea that Ferguson didn't regularly court and encourage filthy behaviour is laughable. Great manager - but in terms of integrity, a disgrace.
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Ranking the hype for French Finals (before kickoff) in my short lifetime,

5. 2016 Euros

Deschamps' first final, this team was weird to follow, we knew by then that France had up and coming talent, but we stuck with a lot of vets, quite a few of them were unlikeable too. The performances were rather weird too, often disjointed and Kante/Matuidi didn't seem to mesh. The win against Germany was great, I got to experience it in France as well and buzz was building. It happened to clash with a couple of turning points for me however that had me preoccupied and that got in the way of fully embracing the team. Didn't help that due to a train delay I ended up missing the majority of the game.

4. 2000 Euros

This was what I felt was the best French team I had ever seen, looking back you can certainly argue that this team was better than the 98' side. France obviously had a target on their back after the WC win and they got the group of death right away. They managed to overcome that fairly easily. The knockouts were competitive but this was when faith in Zidane was reaching a monumental level. The scariest part of the buildup was Holland vs. Italy. Even as a kid, you could tell both teams in that semi-final were playing at a very high level and I was freaking out. In the end we won, but this was maybe the first tournament where I learned how important defense was.

3. 2006 World Cup

In terms of buildup to reach the final, this had an almost movie-like narrative going for it. The current generation wasn't getting it done, so they bring the band back together and leading the charge was of course Zidane. Once we hit the knockout stages, it was the wildest of rides. France looked so unconvincing in the group stages, but once we hit winner take all games, Zidane made us believe all over again. First they disposed of a good looking Spain squad, then they took out a Brazil team full of star players, then they beat a talented Portugal which had on their way to the semis beaten some strong sides. Meanwhile Italy was looking better and better with each passing round. Given that we all knew this was Zidane's last hurrah, the whole thing just felt like a bigger event than a World Cup final usually is. Things didn't pan out in the end, but the lead up to it was so damn good.

2. 2018 World Cup

Recency bias I guess, but there's something about these kids. They are playing with a maturity and tactical discipline these young squads don't normally have. Each round they have had to face star players who can change a game on their own and each time they have risen to the occasion. I'm not used to seeing a team of so many talented stars just buying in to a collective effort like this. 98 was full of leaders who got business done, but 2018, you'd expect these guys to perhaps crack a little under pressure. They might in the finals, but the road to the final feels similar to 2006, only instead of being a generation's last stand, its a new group of players announcing themselves to the world.

1. 1998 World Cup

First final, first football tournament I ever got to really follow and everything went perfectly. The drama was there, the final boss was a very intimidating Brazil and France had just been through a war with Croatia. This was a WC where I didn't follow any of the backstage shenanigans, didn't really know about the Ronaldo stuff and didn't realise how special the French team's makeup even was. I've always been in a multicultural environment, moreso than most, "black-blanc-beur" didn't feel weird, but it might have been one of the most important aspects of the team. All I knew back then was, we were winning and it felt like we would never lose, no matter how much Brazil was being hyped. This felt like the buildup between two of the greatest teams, just cos it was the first WC I ever got to watch.
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Well, I did not expect England to go out like that, but it is what it is.

The Third Place Playoff comes right back to a rematch of Game 3 of Group G.

Legend:
QTF = Quarter Final
SMF = Semi Final
TPP = Third Place Playoff
FIN = Final

[A1] = [Uruguay 4W-0D-0L] - 2
[B2] = [Portugal 1W-2D-1L] - 1

QTF>[A1] = [Uruguay 4W-0D-1L] - 0
QTF>[C1] = [France 4W-1D-0L] - 2

[C1] = [France 3W-1D-0L] - 4
[D2] = [Argentina 1W-1D-2L] - 3

SMF>>>>>[C1] = [France 5W-1D-0L] - 1
SMF>>>>>[G1] = [Belgium 5W-0D-1L] - 0

[E1] = [Brazil 3W-1D-0L] - 2
[F2] = [Mexico 2W-0D-2L] - 0

QTF>[E1] = [Brazil 3W-1D-1L] - 1
QTF>[G1] = [Belgium 5W-0D-0L] - 2

[G1] = [Belgium 4W-0D-0L] - 3
[H2] = [Japan 1W-1D-2L] - 2

FIN>>>>>>>>>[C1] = [France 5W-1D-0L]
FIN>>>>>>>>>[D2] = [Croatia 4W-2D-0L]

TPP>>>>>>>>>[G1] = [Belgium 5W-0D-1L]
TPP>>>>>>>>>[G2] = [England 3W-1D-2L]

[B1] = [Spain 1W-3D-0L] - 1(3)
[A2] = [Russia 2W-1D-1L] - 1(4)

QTF>[A2] = [Russia 2W-2D-1L] - 2(3)
QTF>[D1] = [Croatia 3W-2D-0L] - 2(4)

[D1] = [Croatia 3W-1D-0L] - 1(3)
[C2] = [Denmark 1W-3D-0L] - 1(2)

SMF>>>>>[D1] = [Croatia 4W-2D-0L] - 2
SMF>>>>>[G2] = [England 3W-1D-2L] - 1

[F1] = [Sweden 3W-0D-1L] - 1
[E2] = [Switzerland 1W-2D-1L] - 0

QTF>[F1] = [Sweden 3W-0D-2L] - 0
QTF>[G2] = [England 3W-1D-1L] - 2

[H1] = [Colombia 2W-1D-1L] - 1(3)
[G2] = [England 2W-1D-1L] - 1(4)
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I can't decide whether I'm more annoyed with England for failing to win themselves, or for handing the trophy over to France...
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I am not cheering for either camp too much in the finals, but I am cheering for Croatia to score first so we can get some excitement from the finals. I really don't want to watch France score first and play 60 more minutes of "tactical soccer" as the announcers begrudgingly call it.

Americans would like soccer much more if teams like France didn't play "tactically". Waste of time and bad TV entertainment. Should be more red cards for "tactical" play and less yellow cards.

"tactical play" = wasting time...or French and Brazil style of play.
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Remember the last major tournament that France was a heavy favourite going into the finals?
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SmartMuffin posted...

I can't decide whether I'm more annoyed with England for failing to win themselves, or for handing the trophy over to France...

The idea that we would have beaten France is laughable. I wanted to win tonight more than anything because it was our last really winnable match. I'd give them like an 80/20 chance against France.

Honestly either team playing like they did tonight wouldn't stand much chance. As long as Deschamps doesn't fuck up again and get in the way of his players as he has done before, France should win comfortably.
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It's kind of funny since teams going 1-0 on Croatia and then doing fuck all until Croatia sneaks a last minute goal in is how Croatia has beaten everyone
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https://imgur.com/1toR0sm
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DeathChicken posted...

It's kind of funny since teams going 1-0 on Croatia and then doing fuck all until Croatia sneaks a last minute goal in is how Croatia has beaten everyone

Uh

No it isn't?

I mean the being behind part happened but the rest didn't
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If Croatia wins, guess who's Ultimate loser

Croatia>France>Belgium>Brazil>Mexico>Germany
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junk_funk posted...

I am not cheering for either camp too much in the finals, but I am cheering for Croatia to score first so we can get some excitement from the finals. I really don't want to watch France score first and play 60 more minutes of "tactical soccer" as the announcers begrudgingly call it.

Americans would like soccer much more if teams like France didn't play "tactically". Waste of time and bad TV entertainment. Should be more red cards for "tactical" play and less yellow cards.

"tactical play" = wasting time...or French and Brazil style of play.

How is that different to running down the clock in the NFL?

How is that different to running down the clock in the NFL?

Running the clock down in the NFL happens in the final 1-2 minutes of a 60 minute game.

Parking the bus in soccer happens in the final 30 minutes of a 90 minute game.

If teams tried to run the clock down for the entire fourth quarter you bet your ass people would complain about it, and rightly so.
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I've totally seen teams run down the clock for entire quarters before.

Theres also far less actual play in a 60 minute NFL game than a football game. I want to say I saw a statistic saying there was like 8 minutes of actual play and rest was clock ticking down

Edit: Just to be clear. I love NFL and college football so I'm not trying to badmouth it. There just way less actual play in an NFL game that even with tactical play in soccer theres still more actual stuff happening over the 90 than in an NFL game with negative play

Maybe but that's a different criticism entirely.

A team running down the clock for an entire quarter is quite rare, and likely only occurs in the event of an extreme blowout, such that it's less a matter of "we have to do this to win" and more of "we might as well do this because to do anything else would be to embarrass our opponents"
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Well, I just finished SotC on the same night as this shit happening, so now I'm basically cripplingly depressed. Need, like, a hug, or something.
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Does anyone know how the Golden Glove award is decided? Is there a panel of judges that decides it based on performance? Or is it just amount of clean sheets -> progress in competition -> saves made -> minutes played?

Trying to figure out if Martinez might give Migs some WC minutes in the third-place match.
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Also Haaland wasn't the only career wrecked by Man Utd. They also did I believe Simon Colosimo too. He continued playing but in the A-League. Andy Cole did his knee after Fergie told him to put one on somebody early. There is a reason everyone hates Man Utds not just because they were successful.
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Did anyone else watch Last Train to Russia? I have such a huge crush on Alicia!
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5tarscream posted...

Also Haaland wasn't the only career wrecked by Man Utd. They also did I believe Simon Colosimo too. He continued playing but in the A-League. Andy Cole did his knee after Fergie told him to put one on somebody early. There is a reason everyone hates Man Utds not just because they were successful.

Yeah and I hate them much less now they've just become a rubbish Real Madrid. Ferguson brought this repugnant edge to them.
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SmartMuffin posted...

Maybe but that's a different criticism entirely.

A team running down the clock for an entire quarter is quite rare, and likely only occurs in the event of an extreme blowout, such that it's less a matter of "we have to do this to win" and more of "we might as well do this because to do anything else would be to embarrass our opponents"

Parking the bus is akin to running the ball 80% of the time. Time wasting is akin to kneeling to run out the clock.
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The anger has subsided but I'm not really in the mood to go to work. TBF, I'd feel the same even if we'd won..
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I'm fine with playing more defensively from a tactics standpoint to protect a lead. What i can't stand is staying down, trying to bat the ball away, all that childish s*** to try to burn clock. Like of course you're not gonna rush to put the ball in play after a stoppage, but at least don't do what Mbappe did at the end of the France/Belgium match. That was pathetic.
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Nice win for Croatia, they were the better team. All the pressure will be on France in the final, I hope Croatia can take it. That would be a real dream story, and really deserved given their talent.
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jcgamer107 posted...

I'm fine with playing more defensively from a tactics standpoint to protect a lead. What i can't stand is staying down, trying to bat the ball away, all that childish s*** to try to burn clock. Like of course you're not gonna rush to put the ball in play after a stoppage, but at least don't do what Mbappe did at the end of the France/Belgium match. That was pathetic.

That irritates the hell out of me too.

It kinda doubles up with teams preventing the other team from taking a quick free kick or a quick throw in too. Seems like every free kick and every throw in, there's someone grabbing the ball to slow down play or standing right in front of the ball on a free kick. I get why it is done from a tactical standpoint, so that your team can prepare, but that shit is awful as a viewer and needs to be punished. You want to prevent the quick set-piece? Then have your team be fucking ready for it. You want to prevent it in a dirty way by physically preventing play? Fine, take a yellow card for it.

It was super irritating yesterday too because twice England took a quick free kick and the referee called it back to be retaken. No, fuck off ref, if the team in possession wants to take a quick set piece then they should be allowed to.

I think part of the problem is that too much responsibility is assigned to the one referee in charge.

Maybe you have two refs, one in charge of managing the game and maintaining the pace of play, and the other in charge of player communication and discipline or something. Because often, these things happen because the ref is busy arguing with the players (something that should be punished much more severely in general, this type of bullshit is MUCH less common in American sports and tolerance for it much lower) and is literally too pre-occupied to set up and observe the continuance of play.

Make it so that if you want to argue a call, you have to deal with Ref B, with the full understanding that in the meantime, Ref A is placing the ball and allowing the team to start, such that your arguing puts you at risk of being out of position and nobody will be sad for you if you give up a goal because of it.
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It is totally a football thing too. You look at the other typically English sports like Rugby or Cricket and the referee gets the utmost respect. Absolutely zero negative interaction with the ref. And that's how it should be.

I don't know where it creeps in either because when I used to referee for like a 2 year period I never had any players or parents argue with me.

Fuckin white kits...
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ShatteredElysium posted...

It is totally a football thing too. You look at the other typically English sports like Rugby or Cricket and the referee gets the utmost respect. Absolutely zero negative interaction with the ref. And that's how it should be.

I don't know where it creeps in either because when I used to referee for like a 2 year period I never had any players or parents argue with me.

I think it comes down to the fact that refs are more expendable in football relative to other sports and the players take advantage of this.

MLS refs went on strike a few seasons ago and the league brought in replacement refs. The union caved after a few weeks because the replacement refs were doing as good of a job as the striking refs.
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a group of blind chimpanzees would do as good of a job as MLS refs
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Is it just me or is this Anderson vs Isner match ridiculous right now?

Isner in a war at Wimbledon.

Never seen it before.
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Isner gonna Isner
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ban Isner from Wimbledon
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Whoever wins is a sitting duck against god-****ing-forbid Nadal on Sunday.

If Nadal can beat Djokovic it's legit
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Rofl @ either of these being in a final. And lol @ Dkoker and Nadal having to wait for these two one-note players.
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the nightmare is finally over
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Hey Kleenex.

Is this our boi's year?

We've only been doing this for 10 years.
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if he hadnt played 11 hours of tennis over the past two days I might say he had a shot

but no way now

still, I never thought Id see KA make even one final, let alone two
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Hey, if Nadal goes through in a long 5-setter, he'll be pretty worn down too! Especially given that he'll likely have to play three days in a row, while at least KA gets to rest tomorrow!
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Of all the joke picks we could have made, we stumbled on one we ended up liking way too much.

Dude's overachieved and I love it
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Wonder if Ulti will open his mouth at all this weekend in here.

Maybe he'll drop his 2c about The third place match (which very people give a monkey's about)
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Team

Lloris
Trippier Umtiti Varane Laxalt
Pogba Kante Modric
Mbappe Kane Hazard

Alt team

Courtois
Godin Alderweireld Maguire
Vrsaljko De Bruyne Matuidi Fernandez
Griezmann Cheryshev
Lukaku

I wanted to put in Rakitic or Coutinho. Found it difficult! CM was a difficult area once you get past the obvious 3 in the first team. Briefly even considered Henderson or Fernandinho because CM is so lacking. LB too is not a good area, very few good specialist LBs this tournament
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You put Hazard twice unless you mean the younger brother

Oh nice. That actually simplifies things
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Since we're down to the last two games, I did this for both of them, but, for now, I'll put up the info I gathered just for Saturday's game.

World Cup Third Place Playoff Breakdown

Belgium

Game 1 [1W-0D-0L]: Belgium 3 - 0 Panama
Game 2 [2W-0D-0L]: Belgium 5 - 2 Tunisia
Game 3 [3W-0D-0L]: Belgium 1 - 0 England
Game 4 [4W-0D-0L]: Belgium 3 - 2 Japan
Game 5 [5W-0D-0L]: Belgium 2 - 1 Brazil
Game 6 [5W-0D-1L]: Belgium 0 - 1 France

Total Points: 15
Goals For: 14
Goals Against: 6
Goal Differential: +8
Group G Stage Finish: 1st Place

Goals [12 Scored - 1 Penalty - 1 Own Goal]:
4 - Romelu Lukaku
Game 1: 2 (69', 75')
Game 2: 2 (16', 45+3')
2 - Eden Hazard
Game 2: 2 (6' Penalty, 51')
1 - Michy Batshuayi
Game 2: 1 (90')
1 - Nacer Chadli
Game 4: (90+4')
1 - Kevin De Bruyne
Game 5: 1 (31')
1 - Marouane Fellaini
Game 4: 1 (74')
1 - Adnan Januzaj
Game 3: 1 (51')
1 - Dries Mertens
Game 1: 1 (47')
1 - Jan Vertonghen
Game 4: 1 (69')
1 - Fernandinho [Own Goal by Brazil]
Game 5: 1 (13')

England

Game 1 [1W-0D-0L]: England 2 - 1 Tunisia
Game 2 [2W-0D-0L]: England 6 - 1 Panama
Game 3 [2W-0D-1L]: England 0 - 1 Belgium
Game 4 [2W-1D-1L]: England 1(4) - 1(3) Colombia
Game 5 [3W-1D-1L]: England 2 - 0 Sweden
Game 6 [3W-1D-2L]: England 1 - 2 Croatia

Total Points: 10
Goals For: 12
Goals Against: 6
Goal Differential: +6
Group G Stage Finish: 2nd Place

Goals [9 Scored - 3 Penalty - 0 Own Goal]:
6 - Harry Kane
Game 1: 2 (11', 90+1')
Game 2: 3 (22' Penalty, 45+1' Penalty, 62')
Game 4: 1 (57' Penalty)
2 - John Stones
Game 2: 2 (8', 40')
1 - Dele Alli
Game 5: 1 (59')
1 - Jesse Lingard
Game 2: 1 (36')
1 - Harry Maguire
Game 5: 1 (30')
1 - Kieran Trippier
Game 6: 1 (5')

Penalty Shootout:
Game 4 [4 Scored - 1 Missed]:
Y - Kane
Y - Rashford
N - Henderson
Y - Trippier
Y - Dier
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