Board 8 > Recently watched Star Wars: The Last Jedi. What did B8 think? (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

heard the fan reaction to this one was disappointment - is that accurate?

I hate everything about Kylo Ren's appearance and voice, but he's actually grown on me a lot as the cringeworthy, angsty, idiot villain.

Rey is still a Mary Sue but damn she's got such a winning smile.
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I enjoyed it a lot but I understand some of the criticism. I think kylo ren is a fascinating character. I loved him in TFA too and I'm glad his development has gone how I expected/wanted so far.
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I didn't like it. I didn't hate it either the way a lot of people did - I still preferred to any of the prequels.

It had some really cool moments (I absolutely loved everything with Holdo and I actually really like Kylo Ren) but I had a lot of issues with it (Luke's characterization, Snoke and Phasma being completely irrelevant, everything with Finn + Rose's mission, even though I liked the character of Rose).
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Coulda been like 30-40 minutes shorter without losing much.

I enjoyed it regardless though
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I didn't like Luke's death at all, Admiral Purple Hair keeping her plan secret made no sense, and the Finn/Rose subplot served little purpose except to introduce a traitor. I also felt like it ripped off too much from the OT in visual ideas. Rose also had some really stupid lines (freeing the space horses at the casino and saying "Now it's worth it," stopping Finn from saving everyone).

It wasn't a terrible movie, though. It was just sort of disappointing. I didn't like TFA and I was hoping for more... and also less, since the movie was a good twenty minutes too long.
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Regaro posted...

Coulda been like 30-40 minutes shorter without losing much.

I enjoyed it regardless though

Tied to this, I think that the movie went way too far in the Order devastating the Resistance, and with the Order being super-violent in general. Most of the main characters' survival was down to pure luck, which was disappointing. I'm also not just generally a fan of apocalyptic violence being used without serious emotional stakes in Star Wars, which used to be fairly lighthearted overall. Ep 7's sudden devastation of an entire solar system was probably my least favorite part of it.

My Immortal posted...

I had a lot of issues with it (Luke's characterization, Snoke and Phasma being completely irrelevant, everything with Finn + Rose's mission, even though I liked the character of Rose).

Mostly agreed, but I loved that Snoke got taken out here. His character was incredibly silly and I couldn't believe for an instant that Kylo would be seduced by him. Letting him get a complete sucker's death was my favorite part of the movie.

And my god that red room was visually astounding.
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I really liked the movie except for almost every scene involving Rose -- I was especially annoyed when she "saved" Finn.

Adam Driver completely killed it though. Loved the scenes with Kylo.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Mostly agreed, but I loved that Snoke got taken out here. His character was incredibly silly and I couldn't believe for an instant that Kylo would be seduced by him. Letting him get a complete sucker's death was my favorite part of the movie.

And my god that red room was visually astounding.

I liked that part of the movie and I did really like how Snoke died.

I just wish we had like a 5-minute scene that revealed something about Snoke's rise to power or how he did seduce Kylo. Something to make him an actual character.
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Anagram posted...

Admiral Purple Hair keeping her plan secret made no sense

I wouldn't have told Poe anything either, he just got demoted for insubordination.
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My Immortal posted...

I wouldn't have told Poe anything either, he just got demoted for insubordination.

She told no one outside of a tiny group, though. She just let the entire fleet believe they were going to die.
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That's true. I forgot about the other people Poe convinced to join his rebellion against her.
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There's one or two criticisms - no matter how hard I try I can't get behind Holdo keeping the crew in the dark when the only alternative was annihilation, the casino wasn't great (though also was not that bad), I wouldn't have killed off Luke and obviously Mary Poppins Leia was bad

So yeah not a perfect movie, but other than that it gave me everything I wanted. One of the series' best. I applaud its commitment to subversion and surprise.
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I liked everything involving Luke, Rey and Kylo. Rest of the movie was mediocre except for Laura Dern's hyperspace kamikaze attack
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Mostly agreed, but I loved that Snoke got taken out here.

Hands down the best part of the movie

I came out of TFA thinking he was little more than an Emperor placeholder and a generic bad guy while the really interesting character was Kylo, and that they wouldn't just totally rehash the ending of the OT where Darth turns on his boss, so I predicted that Ren would kill Snoke not to turn face but to turn even more heel. He absolutely should only have been there to facilitate Kylo's development.

And that's exactly what happened. I was delighted they went that way, it's exactly what I wanted. Still surprising in a way because I didn't think they'd go through with it, but great.
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It is Star Wars. It is probably the star warsiest star wars movie they have manufactured yet.
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I think a lot of the movie sucks. The overall setting of the first order, and the resistance being so small. The main plot being about the rebel ships being slowly chased across a sector by the star destroyers felt really weird here. Trying to convince me this was the LAST HOPE OF THE REBELLION didn't work at all. It's been like 30 years since ROTJ and the good guys are down to their last dregs already? It felt like a cool premise for a spinoff movie like Rogue One, not the actual plot of a main trilogy movie trying to convince me everything is really on the line in this slow speed chase. Poe and his entire arc really sucked. Finn and Rose's Bonus Journey sucked, and felt really out of place. Hey, we are slowly being followed by a star destroyer with no hope of escape for anybody, but can you two in particular go to a far off system and find a very specific guy and get back here to complete a task? The code breaker himself fell flat as well. I couldn't understand a word Del Toro said. I like the idea of adding a morally grey character but it wasn't executed well. It didn't really get better when they got down to the planet. Everything about their charge to the LITERAL DEATH STAR in those speeder things felt stupid. These events were like 70-80% of the movie but it all sucked.

That said, the stuff I consider to be "main Star Wars material" was EXCELLENT. Everything to do with Rey, Kylo Ren, Luke, and Snoke was great. I really enjoyed everything that happened with them. Really good stuff, especially Luke. A lot of people are really pissed with Luke's path in life, and get caught up with him "Trying to murder young Ben" but I think it all made perfect sense. I was also on board with Leia force pulling herself out of the void of space. That pissed a lot of people off for some reason but I was totally on board with it.

And of course, the light speed collision was cool as hell, even though it's not really an idea consistent with the rest of the universe. If you could destroy bigger ships and fleets with this method suicide bombers would be doing it all the time.
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Pretty sure everyone here loves it and no one has ever argued about it
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Yeah, things didn't seem that desperate for the resistance in TFA and they had just scored a major victory. Literally no time passes between the movies (at least from Rey's perspective, but the Force linked conversations between her and Kylo really kind of ruin any creative time passage interpretations), and suddenly they're on their last legs?

The prequels are still much worse in so many ways, but at least Lucas didn't just blatantly go "fuck it, we're doing this instead" between movies.
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It's my favorite movie right next to Empire Strikes Back. I've seen it about10 times already, five of those in theaters.

Kylo Ren is my favorite character, I just got his lightsaber on my arm. Whoever came up with him is a damn genius. No way could they make a villain that lived up to Vader, so they made a character that literally tried in every way to do exactly that, and utterly failed. He's basically a whiny Star Wars fanboy made into a villain, it's fantastic.
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AquaArcane posted...

He's basically a whiny Star Wars fanboy made into a villain, it's fantastic.

Wait, I thought you were being sarcastic but then you said this...
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I don't know why you would think that was sarcasm. My sig is even a quote from Kylo Ren and I've made my love for this movie perfectly clear in the previous 7 topics about it.
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1) I don't see sigs, though I agree that would've clued me in
2) Haven't been in many of the topics for the film, especially recently
3) AquaArcane posted...

I just got his lightsaber on my arm

Seems sort of <_< to me in the absence of other information, my bad
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_Harmonica_ posted...

I liked everything involving Luke, Rey and Kylo. Rest of the movie was mediocre

This sounds about right.

Kylo is fantastic as an angsty manchild throwing temper tantrums. I don't usually go for comic relief villains but Kylo's execution is perfect. I also liked Luke's portrayal a lot -- Rey comes looking for a ~hero~ and instead finds this totally broken hermit who sank his ship so he never has to deal with the outside world again. It was emotionally compelling in a way I wouldn't normally expect from Star Wars. Also I liked how his visions of Kylo turning to the dark side were basically a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The slow-motion fleet chase was kind of comical, though, in a bad way. Finn and Rose added some needed action to the mix but it felt like (and was) just a wild goose chase in the end.

Re: the Resistance being so small: This bothered me a lot while I was watching the movie. I believe Corrik said in some other topic that the Resistance is not the entire good guys, it's just a small vigilante/terrorist group led by Leia that is trying to destroy the First Order. This makes a lot more sense but, if so, it needed better explanation in the movie itself.
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I really wish they hadn't telegraphed Snoke's death by showing the lightsaber slowly turning towards him. I honestly thought, in a movie about fake-outs and contrarianism, that Snoke would realize it and stop it. But nope, they thought the audience would be too dumb to get what happened unless they literally saw the lightsaber put into position. It would have been such an amazing reveal if they cut that part out.
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I enjoyed it. Probably put it at #5, above the prequels. It seems to be the most divisive movie so far, that's for sure.
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Regaro posted...

Seems sort of <_< to me in the absence of other information, my bad

Well I like tattoos...

I also love what they did with Luke in this movie. Seeing a legend like him fail and become a depressed hermit really connected with me. The whole theme of failure being the best teacher was compelling, and something I've always agreed with. Yoda's wisdom on that subject was beautiful too.

And I really hope they stick with Rey's parents being nobody. As explained by Rian Johnson, the hardest thing for Luke to hear in Empire was that Vader was his father, but all Rey wants is to know who her parents are. It would have been too easy for her to learn she was a Skywalker. Instead she comes from nothing, and if she wants to be somebody, she has to earn it.
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Movie teased a lot of awesome stuff then didn't deliver on any of it. Stuck to the really safe, expected, story to tell, outside of minor details which are ultimately little more than details and insignificant on the whole for the story. Kinda irritated me in that regard.

Also as far as contributions to the Star Wars Mythos as a whole I feel this movie was the most skippable-- below even the Prequel Trilogy stuff. What I mean by that is like... if they were to say, make a Star Wars card game or board game, would I care about any of the stuff from this movie being included in it? Not really.

In my best attempt to be objective I can't even pretend Episode 1 or 2 are better, but it felt very much like the second movie in a trilogy than one that stands or adds much on its own right for me. There are some scenes I liked but that's about it.
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Yoda showed up to murder a tree - 10/10 who cares about anything else.
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VI > V > VIII > IV > VII > RO > III > II > I
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had a lot of criticisms with the movie after I first watched it. there were some scenes that I enjoyed but I mostly left the theater feeling emotionally unfulfilled. I remember thinking the plot was crammed with a ton of garbage despite taking place over a short period of time, and it felt like rey was just a side character that the main story kept telling me was important. if you cut all of her scenes out of the movie it wouldn't have changed the main plot at all. it's like they literally decided to have rocks fall on the cave at the end just so rey would have something to do when she got there.

the luke vs kylo ren fight was probably the worst thing I've ever seen in a star wars movie.

now that more time has passed I feel even worse about the movie, and I think the director seriously screwed up. he had way too many grand ideas about breaking tropes and blowing everyone's mind but all he succeeded at was disappointing the audience and derailing the plot which had been set up from the first movie.
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Better than Eps 1 and 2 but below everything else personally.
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tyder21 posted...

I really liked the movie except for almost every scene involving Rose -- I was especially annoyed when she "saved" Finn.

I don't think Rose was that terrible overall, but this scene was definitely terrible.

My Immortal posted...

I just wish we had like a 5-minute scene that revealed something about Snoke's rise to power or how he did seduce Kylo. Something to make him an actual character.

this is valid, yeah, though I don't think anything could have made me take him seriously!
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MariaTaylor posted...

it felt like rey was just a side character that the main story kept telling me was important. if you cut all of her scenes out of the movie it wouldn't have changed the main plot at all.

this is fair. I still think Kylo and Luke were great, but Rey felt mostly like filler so they would have someone to interact with.

the only good thing about Rey (though it might get retconned, who knows) is the reveal that her parents were nobody in particular. just in general, I prefer nobody heroes -- you shouldn't need a pedigree to save the world, and particularly in this case I like how it subverts all the expectations of "is she a Skywalker? is she a Solo?" etc.
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The whole movie felt like a weird side quest instead of having a main plot. Although to be fair I guess you could say the same about Empire.
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I mean, it kind of subverts those expectations, but the fact is that Rey isn't any less chosen because of blood. Her immense magical powers still come from birth.
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Rey's origins are one of those things I consider "minor details" because ultimately she acts exactly like you'd expect a Skywalker to even if that isn't her blood. Actual interesting subversion of expectations would make her origin matter to the plot or her character in some way beyond that fact.
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kevwaffles posted...

The prequels are still much worse in so many ways, but at least Lucas didn't just blatantly go "fuck it, we're doing this instead" between movies.

totally agree, fits with my dislike of the darker-and-edgier take

Anagram posted...

. I also felt like it ripped off too much from the OT in visual ideas.

what do you mean here? I thought the directing was generally pretty excellent, pornographic explosion violence aside.

CoolCly posted...

Finn and Rose's Bonus Journey sucked, and felt really out of place.

I really liked how EVERYTHING FAILED for them. But we probably should have had 50% less between their subplot and the scenes on the Rebels' cruiser.
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VI > IV > VIII > VII > III > V > RO > II > I
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SeabassDebeste posted...

what do you mean here? I thought the directing was generally pretty excellent, pornographic explosion violence aside.

Visuals might have been the wrong word, I guess setup. We have a big planet at the end where they have to race around on little speeder bikes against AT-ATs to defend a base, except now it's in a salt flat (I did like the little trails that were behind the bikes). There's another evil throne room with another wacky evil emperor, except these ones are red instead of black. Rey goes to visit a guy on a secluded island instead of in a secluded swamp. The mentor sacrifices himself so the others can escape, albeit under totally different circumstances. Then we also have the apprentice betraying the villain. For a movie that focuses so heavily on 'let go of the old and in with the new,' it borrows way too much from ESB and RotJ, even if it at least has the decency to change most of it.

I didn't hate the movie or anything, but I have no plans to watch it ever again.
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All I can say is "at least it got E;R to make another video"
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SeabassDebeste posted...

I mean, it kind of subverts those expectations, but the fact is that Rey isn't any less chosen because of blood. Her immense magical powers still come from birth.

yeah this is a solid point. the movie makes a lot of attempts at subversion but I think ultimately misses the point in a lot of cases and just ended up wasting 2ish hours of my time.
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Good movie. I have no idea exactly how I rank Star Wars but it's towards the top. Criticisms on non-Rey/Luke/Kylo stuff is fair but Rey/Luke/Kylo stuff is soooo good.

Possibly unpopular opinion: every Star Wars movie except maybe ANH has at least one significant arc that feels like padding.
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NeoElfboy posted...

Good movie. I have no idea exactly how I rank Star Wars but it's towards the top. Criticisms on non-Rey/Luke/Kylo stuff is fair but Rey/Luke/Kylo stuff is soooo good.

Possibly unpopular opinion: every Star Wars movie except maybe ANH has at least one significant arc that feels like padding.

What was that arc in ESB?
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Leia and Han trying to evade imperial pursuit before they reach Cloud City was the first thing that came to mind. Hoth feels like it could be slimmed down too? But ESB is certainly less egregious about it than some of the others (this is part of why it's rightly considered good!).
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Kind of a middling movie.

Lots of movie to basically get two plot points in. Poe learns a lesson and Kylo Ren/Rey get storyline progression.

Finn and Rose are used to develop Poe but don't serve much purpose themselves.

Villains are all wasted and the stakes of the movie itself are rather low.

We learn the good and the bad guys are all just wamongers but not much about what is going on the rest of the universe itself. For all we know Kylo Ren is right, get rid of the Sith and the Jedi and everyone can have peace.
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In addition to a lot of the other criticism people have already made in here, I felt it spent all of its time trying (and not really succeeding) to tear down the series' tropes and expectations, but didn't actually care about replacing those expectations with anything. I came away with absolutely zero interest in any future movie; the First Order is literally a joke, the Resistance doesn't logistically make sense and has been shoehorned into exactly the same situation as the original trilogy, and they couldn't come up with anything interesting to do for the majority of their characters just one movie in.
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Mikey is my hero
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I like it a lot. that said, I watched it on a plane recently and found that fast forwarding all the Finn/Rose stuff made it a lot better.

redrocket posted...

NeoElfboy posted...

Good movie. I have no idea exactly how I rank Star Wars but it's towards the top. Criticisms on non-Rey/Luke/Kylo stuff is fair but Rey/Luke/Kylo stuff is soooo good.

Possibly unpopular opinion: every Star Wars movie except maybe ANH has at least one significant arc that feels like padding.

What was that arc in ESB?

I always went 4 > 5 > 6 because 5 has the Hoth stuff and 6 has the Jabba stuff. I won't argue much about it though.
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People really think of Hoth as padding?
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I think he's saying more than he doesn't like the Hoth stuff.
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