Board 8 > Playing DKCR for the first time

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is the game that actually compelled me to buy a Wii. I finally completely what is arguably the GOAT platforming trilogy in gaming last year, and I needed more.

Initial thoughts/observations:

The good
-The tone and feel are pretty great... it's pretty obvious that they were going off of DCK1 with the slapstick humor and brightness. I suppose that's fine, though the darker ambience of DKC2 is what makes it the best in the series
-I thought I would hate the motion controls, but I am already starting to get used to them. It's still superfluous, as I feel like this could control just fine on a classic controller, but I'll take what I can get
-The sunset/silhouette levels are fucking gorgeous

The bad
-It seems like I will only be controlling Donkey Kong and getting Diddy is just like a power boost? How does that work in 2 player?
-Donkey Kong's voice acting is incredibly off-putting. He sounds like someone overacting in an old Japanese samurai film

The ugly
-This is going to be much harder than the SNES games, isn't it
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I thought the game was kind of terrible tbh.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

-This is going to be much harder than the SNES games, isn't it

no.
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oh cool

I figured the weird blowing mechanics and whatnot would add another layer of difficulty in the later stages
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I think it's debatable about the difficulty. It's been a long time since I've played Returns so I'm just going off Tropical Freeze, but they're not considerably easier.

I kind of hate the tone tbh. DKC1 is actually really dark in its own right with lots of industrial levels and moody atmosphere. The tikis, pigs, and Donkey's over the top characterization are really sterile to me. The original music sucks, but some of the remakes are pretty amazing.
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I couldnt play Returns on Wii. The motion controls were a train wreck. It was great on 3DS though.

Tropical Freeze is even better. Its up there with DKC2
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red13n posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

-This is going to be much harder than the SNES games, isn't it

no.

I didn't play enough of 2 to really comment on its difficulty (or play 3 at all), but I thought DKCR was a lot harder than DKC1. To be clear, DKCR isn't too tough normally, but generally any sort of chase or on-rails sequence (mine carts, rocket barrels, running from various things) can be very nasty, plus the temple stages.
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The bonus stages are pretty damn hard
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LordoftheMorons posted...

The bonus stages are pretty damn hard

Yeah I'm currently getting my ass handed to me on the first temple. No checkpoints is just cruel.
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I didn't like DKCR all that much, honestly. I don't know if I'd say it's harder, but it definitely has more annoying setpieces and it controls worse. I hate the rocket barrels.
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It's a fun game but not really memorable. I can remember pretty much every single level from DKC 1,2 and even 3. They were all real unique with some cool mechanic. DKCR, well, all the levels just kinda blend together in my mind and nothing sticks out. Also, the tikis were super bland enemies. I still beat the game 100% on the 3DS, but it just isn't memorable.
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I played a level of DKCR on the Wii and loved it. It made me think right away it was better than anything fron the original trilogy.

I then got the game on the 3DS..
and I know losing the buttery framerate bothered me, but I found the game to be a chore in its second half. It reminded me I never really was attached to the original trilogy anyway.

darn u donkey
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Up
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Are you still playing?
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Yeah

This game is frustrating and mediocre so I'm not super hooked. As stupid as it sounds, the sound effects and music are really ruining some of these levels for me.
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The style and presentation is freakin awesome but the level design is garbage and doesn't come close to the fun of DKC. TF is barely better, but they sure ramp up the style. I'll spare y'all my huge essay about that.

But this is a clear symptom of that:
Nelson_Mandela posted...

As stupid as it sounds, the sound effects and music are really ruining some of these levels for me.

It's incredibly noisy and in combination with the super juicy gratuitous animations it makes it impossible to sightread a level. Only when you play multiple times do you begin to understand a level. TF is actually worse about this.

So sad because so much amazing work was put into these levels... only to make them worse to actually play.
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Yeah I have to say it's not really that much fun dying 5 times per level on shit that was impossible to see coming
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Grand Kirby posted...

That's obnoxious

The game is literally designed to force you to play a level multiple times
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rocket barrels still the worst thing
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Git gud
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OliviaTremor posted...

It's a fun game but not really memorable. I can remember pretty much every single level from DKC 1,2 and even 3. They were all real unique with some cool mechanic. DKCR, well, all the levels just kinda blend together in my mind and nothing sticks out. Also, the tikis were super bland enemies. I still beat the game 100% on the 3DS, but it just isn't memorable.

I 100%ed it on Wii and yeah, I remember very little of DKCR's specific levels, enemies, or hazards despite recalling DKC1/2/3 pretty well - though the latter part owes a lot to having played them so many times as a kid.

I do remember not really liking the aesthetic they went with and thinking the game was too shiny. Admittedly I have no idea how you would capture the old games' 16-bit prerendered look in a modern game but DKCR definitely didn't scratch the itch.
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The rocket barrel levels were the only ones I liked. >_>
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Rocket barrel levels remind me of free to play mobile games
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I thought Id like Returns on 3DS when I got away from the horrid motion controls, but I was very wrong
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Only downside to Returns save motion controls on the wii is the atmosphere isn't as griping for me like the first two DKC games were. Still, it's better than the mess that is DKC3 and Tropical Freeze is even better.
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Barrel/cart levels were the best yeah

I think 2K or something was also awesome
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foolm0r0n posted...

I'll spare y'all my huge essay about that.

I would love to hear it, especially from the perspective of a game designer. I always felt like the DKC games were true game devs' games.
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I'm legitimately about to quit this game and it's only world 2
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get good
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pjbasis posted...

get good

I'm beating the levels. I'm just not having fun doing so.
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get better games
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pjbasis posted...

get better games

this is a much better suggestion
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Like Donkey Kong Country tropical Freeze
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Yeah I'm done with this game. I appreciate a lot of what it's doing, but it's simply not enjoyable to play. And I love the SNES games.
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TF is better.

Although it's possible I only think that because I played it 2nd, and it was the 3DS version.

Also if the difficulty is your problem, then TF Switch has the New "Funky" Mode which makes things easier.
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Spoilers the original trilogy is not particularly great either
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WazzupGenius00 posted...

Spoilers the original trilogy is not particularly great either

spoilers this is a bad opinion
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I still need to go back and finish this game. I got stuck in the loop in World 7, never found the proper exit.

Have it on the 3DS, btw.
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TF is not much better, but it does fix some small things.. and ruins other things
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Huh, this topic is super interesting. I'm used to seeing almost nothing but praise for both of these games, but especially for Tropical Freeze.

FWIW I enjoyed both of them immensely. Neither comes near capturing the magic of DKC1 or 2, but those are legit some of the best 2D platformers ever made so that feels like a kind of unreasonable bar.
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Xiahou Shake posted...

Huh, this topic is super interesting. I'm used to seeing almost nothing but praise for both of these games, but especially for Tropical Freeze.

Time does that
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WazzupGenius00 posted...

Spoilers the original trilogy is not particularly great either

This is incorrect
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foolm0r0n posted...

TF is not much better, but it does fix some small things.. and ruins other things

Still waiting on a long-form post outlining the problems with DKCR. It's hard for me to articulate.
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Returns is alright. Probably the worst in the series. 3DS version would provably be better because the motion controls are bad, but I haven't played that. TF is my favorite 2D platformer of all time, but if you hated Returns, I'm not sure you'd enjoy it.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Still waiting on a long-form post outlining the problems with DKCR. It's hard for me to articulate.

Yeah I was see this too! I liked the new DKC games well enough, my problems with them is mostly all aesthetic.
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I've only played the 3DS version, and I'm still not a fan.
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By "spare you my essay" I meant I don't want to write it all out again

But I just remembered I posted this in discord a while ago:

@emerald are get grade F I can explain why DKTF has terrible level design compared to the great levels in the DKCs. It's the same problem as DKCR but to a much lesser extent since they improved it, but it's still super noticeable and fun-ruining.

It all comes down to the 2 hearts. Since you can always absorb 1 hit of damage, it's totally okay if the level is designed with some frustrating unfair bullshit. Almost every level is designed in this way, using the 2 hearts as a crutch. This means that you can't sightread and "flow" through a level your first time, and it's really frustrating and not fun. This also means that almost every challenging level can be trivialized by leaving the level and getting a buddy for 2 extra hearts. TF improves this by usually giving you a buddy barrel in front of difficult sections so you waste less time, but it still relies on extra hearts as a balance to difficulty.

@emerald are get grade F
The DKCs are 1 hit kills, so all the levels need to be designed so you can go through without getting hit at all. This naturally leads to really tight and fun level design, even if the levels are way more basic and simple than anything in R and TF. They nail the basics, which is really all you need. R and TF fail the basics and pour on enormous amounts of gloss to compensate.

The best evidence for this theory is the barrel rocket and cart levels in DKCR. They are 1 hit kills, unlike the rest of the game, and they are HELLA FUN. Super refreshing playing those levels, even though they are supposed to be boring autoscrollers. And then you can compare to the barrel rocket levels in DKTF, which they "fixed" by giving you 2 hearts, which ended up terrible like all the other levels because of the same old unfair bullshit.

TF also keeps the core problem from DKCR that movement with buddies is WAY more fun AND easier than plain DK. It's not like DK has a higher skill floor and ceiling, he's just straight up bad and not fun. So when you lose your buddy, you're sitting there with your controller wondering wtf you are even playing the game for anymore. The DKCs avoid this even though Dixie can fly since it's not such a massive change to the platforming. DK and Diddy are still great to play. This is less of an issue than the 2 hearts things but it's still enough to ruin the game.

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That's not mentioning that the main reason the levels are not sightreadable is directly because of the crazy visual gloss. The screen is 1920px wide, so you should be able to see 1920px in front of you to plan your jump, but instead the next platform only shows up 300px in front of you due to some epic bean stalk growing animation or whatever.
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I think the two hearts theory is totally on point. It's as if each level is designed with cheap shit like enemies suddenly popping out of the ground so that you absorb one hit and keep going. The problem is that each level has like 5-10 of these cheap moments, so you can only make iterative steps toward memorizing the layout. Which means the game isn't difficult per se, but it has absolutely no flow and therefore seems like a slog to play through.
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