Board 8 > NFL Super Bowl Discussion Topic: Patriots/Eagles

(+) Yeah! (+)

I miss the days of NFC dominance. Hopefully we can bring them back when Brady retires.
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Personally, I think Brady is a very good quarterback, but Belichick is a legendary, once in a generation coach.

I think Pats will still be routine contenders for 5-10 years after Brady retires as long as Belichick is still coaching at full capacity. I'd say he's more responsible for the Pats success than Brady, so I don't expect any sort of NFC dominance until at least after he retires.
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Belichick is in his mid-60s, so I don't expect him to be around much longer than Brady.
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Yeah, I'd give him another 5-10 years, tops.

And then the Patriots will immediately fade back into the irrelevance from which they came.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

it didn't really have that many cool offensive plays either considerin

The Windows foles was throwing into were incredible. He was making some legitimate insane throws and plays
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https://twitter.com/bustedcoverage/status/960378789854359553
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Personally, I think Brady is a very good quarterback, but Belichick is a legendary, once in a generation coach.

I think Pats will still be routine contenders for 5-10 years after Brady retires as long as Belichick is still coaching at full capacity. I'd say he's more responsible for the Pats success than Brady, so I don't expect any sort of NFC dominance until at least after he retires.

I disagree. We've seen Belichick without Brady and it's not pretty. He had a losing record with the Browns and only made the playoffs once. Went 5-11 the year before Brady started and 11-5 with Brady and won the Super Bowl. The only year Brady missed (2008) they also missed the playoffs. So as a Head Coach he has made the playoffs once in seven seasons without Brady.

Not to say Bill isn't great or that Tom would be as successful without him, but they really work well together and I doubt either one dominates alone
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You neglected to mention that they missed the playoffs at 11-5 in the 08-09 season with Matt Cassel and went 4-0 (or was it 3-1?) during Brady's suspension last year with a rookie and a third-year pro who had barely seen the field.
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Wow, NFL coaches tend to look so damn old that I'm surprised to learn they retire rather young. Guess the insane stress of the job piles years onto their faces. Belichick is 65 and already the second oldest coach in the league (Pete Carroll is a few months older).

https://www.oldest.org/sports/coaches-in-nfl/

According to that article, only four coaches in league history have coached into their 70s, and none have been older than 72. So yeah, can't expect him to go too much longer.

MZero11 posted...

Not to say Bill isn't great or that Tom would be as successful without him, but they really work well together and I doubt either one dominates alone

Yeah, I think it's very fair to look at them as a packaged deal. I mean, they've been together in NE for 17 years. Has there EVER been a player-coach relationship that long?
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ExThaNemesis posted...

https://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/4603/web

Philadelphia police scanner if ya'll interested.

Thank you.

I turn this on and within two minutes hear about an intersection with all traffic lights on the ground.
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MZero11 posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

Personally, I think Brady is a very good quarterback, but Belichick is a legendary, once in a generation coach.

I think Pats will still be routine contenders for 5-10 years after Brady retires as long as Belichick is still coaching at full capacity. I'd say he's more responsible for the Pats success than Brady, so I don't expect any sort of NFC dominance until at least after he retires.

I disagree. We've seen Belichick without Brady and it's not pretty. He had a losing record with the Browns and only made the playoffs once. Went 5-11 the year before Brady started and 11-5 with Brady and won the Super Bowl. The only year Brady missed (2008) they also missed the playoffs. So as a Head Coach he has made the playoffs once in seven seasons without Brady.

Not to say Bill isn't great or that Tom would be as successful without him, but they really work well together and I doubt either one dominates alone

>_>

The year they missed the playoff they went 11-5.

With Matt Cassel.

They missed the playoffs, but they are the only 11 win team since the expansion of the playoffs to miss with 11 wins. It wasn't like he was some bum coach that didn't know what to do without Brady. And yeah, Belichick was bad with the Browns, but that was because they didn't let him build the entire organization like he did with the Patriots. He has a hand in everything with the Patriots.

There are probably five QBs in the league right now that you could swap out for Brady during this run and they'd be just as impressive. Hell, I'm not 100% positive Brady was ever the best QB in the league at any point during his career. Like swap out Brady with Manning in his prime, Rodgers, Brees, do you really think the Patriots don't have almost the same number of titles? Swap out Belichick with any other coach and I don't think the Patriots have a dynasty, because no one else in modern football can build a team like he does. Brady's obviously elite, but not the same way Belichick is ELITE. He's an all time great coach, while Brady is just a very good QB.

I kind of wish Brady would've retired a couple of years ago, so we could've gotten to see several years of still in his coaching prime Belichick without him. I think that would have settled this debate. To me, Belichick is an irreplaceable peace of the dynasty, while there are a handful of names that are active now or recently at QB where I could think, "yeah, the Pats would've been 100% fine with him too".
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I also think if Brady doesn't chase away Garoppolo you are sitting pretty for another 5+ years easy until Belichick retires.

ALSO has there been one good coordinator that came out of the Patriots system and been good for another pro team? There are so many teams where they lose an important coordinator and then they just kind of are a step back the next year. Not the Patriots. They lose coordinators, the coordinators go elsewhere and do very little, but the Patriots keep rolling. Because Belichick runs everything, and is the dominating force behind the Patriots.

He's like top three coach, all time.

Brady is top three quarterback during the years he was active, most years.
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So, as a person who doesn't really follow football, I'm ill-equipped to analyze the game.

What led the Eagles to win the big one? Or the Patriots to lose it?
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KCF0107 posted...

You neglected to mention that they missed the playoffs at 11-5 in the 08-09 season with Matt Cassel and went 4-0 (or was it 3-1?) during Brady's suspension last year with a rookie and a third-year pro who had barely seen the field.

yeah and they went 16-0 the year before, that's a five game difference! It's like the equivalent of dropping from 12-4 to 7-9. They also had an easy schedule thanks to playing the AFC and NFC West, who were both terrible and won by the Chargers at 8-8 and Cardinals at 9-7. and of course they beat the Bills twice because the Bills. So they went 7-1 against the two worst divisions in the NFL and 2-0 against the Bills. They lost to every playoff team they faced except the Cardinals who were sputtering at the end of the season before turning it around in the playoffs, and they went 1-1 against the Dolphins. They really weren't as good as their record that year

They went 3-1 during the suspension, yes. The Rams (4-12), Eagles, Vikings and Broncos also started 3-1 or better and they all missed the playoffs, so it's not really a huge accomplishment!
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Suprak the Stud posted...

The year they missed the playoff they went 11-5.

With Matt Cassel.

Matt Cassel went 10-5 (with better numbers!) in 2010 with the Chiefs!
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They also beat the NFC representative for the Super Bowl that year 47-7.

So they were quite good. They were 1 win away from the 2 seed, and 2 wins from the 1.
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MZero11 posted...

KCF0107 posted...

You neglected to mention that they missed the playoffs at 11-5 in the 08-09 season with Matt Cassel and went 4-0 (or was it 3-1?) during Brady's suspension last year with a rookie and a third-year pro who had barely seen the field.

yeah and they went 16-0 the year before, that's a five game difference! It's like the equivalent of dropping from 12-4 to 7-9. They also had an easy schedule thanks to playing the AFC and NFC West, who were both terrible and won by the Chargers at 8-8 and Cardinals at 9-7. and of course they beat the Bills twice because the Bills. So they went 7-1 against the two worst divisions in the NFL and 2-0 against the Bills. They lost to every playoff team they faced except the Cardinals who were sputtering at the end of the season before turning it around in the playoffs, and they went 1-1 against the Dolphins. They really weren't as good as their record that year

They went 3-1 during the suspension, yes. The Rams (4-12), Eagles, Vikings and Broncos also started 3-1 or better and they all missed the playoffs, so it's not really a huge accomplishment!

I mean...

The Colts, Ravens, Eagles AND Giants were all totally fucked.....

12-4 is their legit record that season.

So yeah. They dropped one game if not factoring the 18-11 reaming those 4 teams got...

I'm also not saying "Tom Brady is a bum replace him with Matt Cassel and nothing changes!"

I'm saying "Tom Brady is very good but there are other comparable players in the league even during the time he was active, and swap in someone like Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees and I doubt anything would change."

Meanwhile there is absolutely no one I would even consider near Belichick's level. There is no comparable person I'd say "oh, yeah, if person x had built the Patriots around Brady instead of Belichick I bet they'd have also been a dynasty too."
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crazygamer999 posted...

So, as a person who doesn't really follow football, I'm ill-equipped to analyze the game.

What led the Eagles to win the big one? Or the Patriots to lose it?

The Patriots complete inability to mount a competent defense all night and Nick Foles making the ballsiest throws ever.
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crazygamer999 posted...

So, as a person who doesn't really follow football, I'm ill-equipped to analyze the game.

What led the Eagles to win the big one? Or the Patriots to lose it?

#1
Should literally have 13 rings with the coach and defenses and offenses talent he has had.

Has 5 (*****)

The sole reason they've lost every major game in the Super Bowl and AFC Championship is 100% the choke artist of all choke artists....

GET FUCKED BRADY!!!!

That's why.

https://twitter.com/SportingBecky/status/960392723197915136
https://twitter.com/bataviasbest/status/960381561760870402
https://twitter.com/eggmenendez/status/960376471205359621
https://twitter.com/TravusHertl/status/960384121489956864
https://twitter.com/albanyculiacan/status/960417548280979457
https://twitter.com/ForeverGreen_/status/960376413994930176
https://twitter.com/khanali217/status/960363257637822465
https://twitter.com/bataviasbest/status/960387758408785920

this is just the tip of the absolute wanton destruction, violence, pestilence, rioting, etc Philadelphia is going through tonight.

In MASSIVE numbers, and to a really staggering degree. Like I know y'all are gonna say a lot of cities do this, but I don't think they're THIS bad. And THIS many people. All of whom are encouraging and proud of it. But all of this, combined with all of the old usual Philly shit makes them completely indefensible from now until the end of time. No longer do 'oh the media overblows it' or 'well every fanbase has some bad eggs, its just some bad people' or 'most philly fans are good people, really!'

Like this is truly disgraceful. Other fanbases are not THIS bad. I'm sorry that people like lefty and such have to get rolled up into this by virtue of supporting, but there's truly such a giganticly higher proportion of destruction lunatic assholes in the Philadelphia fanbase than any other one. Period. Forever. Indefensibly. These people don't deserve a championship if this is how they react to it.

yeah I'm biased but I think this is fair here. Let me know if you think I'm wrong- other fanbases that riot, literally loot, start fires, roll cars, etc... do other ones do it THIS much? like something outside of a single act or two. This is rampant.
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congrats to the eagles fans that aren't complete destructive assholes though
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crazygamer999 posted...

So, as a person who doesn't really follow football, I'm ill-equipped to analyze the game.

What led the Eagles to win the big one? Or the Patriots to lose it?

For the Eagles, they had massive balls and took some big risks that paid off very well, going for it on two fourth downs that ultimately resulted in two touchdowns.

For the Patriots, their defense usually gives up a lot of yards but not many points, but in this game they couldn't make key stops and their "bend but don't break" defense broke like a dollar store condom
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Suprak the Stud posted...

I'm also not saying "Tom Brady is a bum replace him with Matt Cassel and nothing changes!"

I'm saying "Tom Brady is very good but there are other comparable players in the league even during the time he was active, and swap in someone like Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees and I doubt anything would change."

Meanwhile there is absolutely no one I would even consider near Belichick's level. There is no comparable person I'd say "oh, yeah, if person x had built the Patriots around Brady instead of Belichick I bet they'd have also been a dynasty too."

To be fair the Cardinals weren't very good in the regular season, they just got ridiculously hot in the playoffs (and benefited from a very bad game by Jake Delhomme but hey)

Anyway, I will agree that there are more quarterbacks close to Brady's level than coaches close to Belichick's level, but I just think we've been spoiled with a lot of really good QBs lately. Peyton, Brees, and Rodgers are the guys I would say are on Brady's level and they're all legendary talents that came in around the same time
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MZero11 posted...

yeah and they went 16-0 the year before, that's a five game difference! It's like the equivalent of dropping from 12-4 to 7-9.

That is so not how that works, at all

WiggumFan267 posted...

https://twitter.com/SportingBecky/status/960392723197915136
https://twitter.com/bataviasbest/status/960381561760870402
https://twitter.com/eggmenendez/status/960376471205359621
https://twitter.com/TravusHertl/status/960384121489956864
https://twitter.com/albanyculiacan/status/960417548280979457
https://twitter.com/ForeverGreen_/status/960376413994930176
https://twitter.com/khanali217/status/960363257637822465
https://twitter.com/bataviasbest/status/960387758408785920

this is just the tip of the absolute wanton destruction, violence, pestilence, rioting, etc Philadelphia is going through tonight.

In MASSIVE numbers, and to a really staggering degree. Like I know y'all are gonna say a lot of cities do this, but I don't think they're THIS bad. And THIS many people. All of whom are encouraging and proud of it. But all of this, combined with all of the old usual Philly shit makes them completely indefensible from now until the end of time. No longer do 'oh the media overblows it' or 'well every fanbase has some bad eggs, its just some bad people' or 'most philly fans are good people, really!'

Like this is truly disgraceful. Other fanbases are not THIS bad. I'm sorry that people like lefty and such have to get rolled up into this by virtue of supporting, but there's truly such a giganticly higher proportion of destruction lunatic assholes in the Philadelphia fanbase than any other one. Period. Forever. Indefensibly. These people don't deserve a championship if this is how they react to it.

yeah I'm biased but I think this is fair here. Let me know if you think I'm wrong- other fanbases that riot, literally loot, start fires, roll cars, etc... do other ones do it THIS much? like something outside of a single act or two. This is rampant.

Heres two other big, long suffering cities in recent years:

http://fox8.com/2016/06/19/cleveland-curse-broken-cavs-make-history-with-nba-championship-title/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-a-whole-lot-of-partying-but-few-problems-after-cubs-victory-20161103-story.html

So Id say Philly is winning the wanton destruction race so far!
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Chicago a long-suffering city? They won 10 championships from 1991-2015!
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Twitter is so annoying.

"Blah blah blah WHITE PEOPLE RIOTING BECAUSE OF A SPORTS GAME"

because there are no black Eagles fans out there partaking in this debauchery.
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Reading the philly police scanner thread though, some of this shit is beyond the pale.

Someone stole a fucking Ostrich from the zoo and was riding it?!

My god.
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They stormed city hall and got a keg over the gates.

That one's actually kind of awesome.
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Philadelphia's not long-suffering either, Phillies won in 2008

Someone ran over a cop while on a 4-wheeler.

A man and a woman hijacked a tactical police horse.

Philadelphia was a shit hole already, no one cares if the place gets destroyed.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

Philadelphia's not long-suffering either, Phillies won in 2008

pointed this out earlier.
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And also Villanova come to think of it, not pro but college football/men's basketball might as well rank with the "big four" imo

I think the genuine atrociousness of the Philadelphia fanbase is what made the 09 Yankees World series so much more satisfying.

We didn't just win. We beat these assholes.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

WiggumFan267 posted...

https://twitter.com/SportingBecky/status/960392723197915136
https://twitter.com/bataviasbest/status/960381561760870402
https://twitter.com/eggmenendez/status/960376471205359621
https://twitter.com/TravusHertl/status/960384121489956864
https://twitter.com/albanyculiacan/status/960417548280979457
https://twitter.com/ForeverGreen_/status/960376413994930176
https://twitter.com/khanali217/status/960363257637822465
https://twitter.com/bataviasbest/status/960387758408785920

this is just the tip of the absolute wanton destruction, violence, pestilence, rioting, etc Philadelphia is going through tonight.

In MASSIVE numbers, and to a really staggering degree. Like I know y'all are gonna say a lot of cities do this, but I don't think they're THIS bad. And THIS many people. All of whom are encouraging and proud of it. But all of this, combined with all of the old usual Philly shit makes them completely indefensible from now until the end of time. No longer do 'oh the media overblows it' or 'well every fanbase has some bad eggs, its just some bad people' or 'most philly fans are good people, really!'

Like this is truly disgraceful. Other fanbases are not THIS bad. I'm sorry that people like lefty and such have to get rolled up into this by virtue of supporting, but there's truly such a giganticly higher proportion of destruction lunatic assholes in the Philadelphia fanbase than any other one. Period. Forever. Indefensibly. These people don't deserve a championship if this is how they react to it.

yeah I'm biased but I think this is fair here. Let me know if you think I'm wrong- other fanbases that riot, literally loot, start fires, roll cars, etc... do other ones do it THIS much? like something outside of a single act or two. This is rampant.

Heres two other big, long suffering cities in recent years:

http://fox8.com/2016/06/19/cleveland-curse-broken-cavs-make-history-with-nba-championship-title/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-a-whole-lot-of-partying-but-few-problems-after-cubs-victory-20161103-story.html

So Id say Philly is winning the wanton destruction race so far!

I can join this with another recent one.

http://www.businessinsider.com/seattle-celebration-photos-2014-2
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Judging by tonight's evidence you're lucky you weren't killed.
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I think we all knew Philly was going to riot if they won.

But I think we also knew they were going to riot if they lost too.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

Philadelphia's not long-suffering either, Phillies won in 2008

Sorry, long suffering sports fandom.

I think the Cubs 100 year drought and the Eagles never winning it qualifies as long suffering, regardless of how the other teams in the city were doing.
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Didn't Vancouver also go wild?

Trash gonna trash
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Suprak the Stud posted...

I'm also not saying "Tom Brady is a bum replace him with Matt Cassel and nothing changes!"

I'm saying "Tom Brady is very good but there are other comparable players in the league even during the time he was active, and swap in someone like Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees and I doubt anything would change."

Meanwhile there is absolutely no one I would even consider near Belichick's level. There is no comparable person I'd say "oh, yeah, if person x had built the Patriots around Brady instead of Belichick I bet they'd have also been a dynasty too."

You need both for the dynasty, to have a multi-decade run like this, you need both the best coach and the best QB.

Belichick nails a few things... he changes the Pats systems every few years so they don't have to overpay for the level of quality he wants. If everyone runs the 3-4, he switches to the 4-3 (not always.) He also values versatility, which helps sub packages, which means they don't usually get caught the same way other teams do. He also kept away from drives that ended in long field goal attempts, because they tended to yield the same average field position as turnovers. That has changed a little bit, but, for a while a lot of coaches would be happy to drive 45 yards and try a long FG. Remember the old 'blame the kicker' mentality, but Belichick would rather blame the coach.

They also understand that the success of the offense relies on the success of the QB. That sounds obvious, but many teams just try to get a good QB and good WRs and a good OC, and don't really play to everyone's strengths. Almost every NFL QB is a good QB, and a few are great. But how many offenses are truly cohesive?

Who would I pick? Falcons were up 28-3 and the players were explicitly afraid of Tom Brady beating them. And Brady by far had a better 2017 than Billy Billy.
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