Board 8 > -|||- Official Diablo 3 Thread 4: Traitorous Cur! -|||-

(+) Yeah! (+)

Corrupted Angels are overrated, they honestly hit pretty weak even with the POWA CHARGE.

Subjugators were always the most dangerous things in Act 4 imo.

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Uh well I am not talking about just the zombies. But those Abom looking things with Fast and Fire Chains and Molten and whatever and you try to run but they are faster and they surround you and you are dead in less than a second oh my god the flashbacks mommy hold me.

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From: Shoenin_Kakashi | #451

Corrupted Angels are overrated, they honestly hit pretty weak even with the POWA CHARGE.

Subjugators were always the most dangerous things in Act 4 imo.

Oh god those corrupted angels were balling on FD's face when we beat Inferno yesterday.

They just kept charging him.

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The Cult of Personality.

Lopen is vastly downplaying the difficulty in Inferno. Act 1 hasn't been nerfed and was decently challenging when first arriving there. It wasn't one shot hell like the later acts, but you could certainly die to a lot of stuff, especially to difficult combos.


It's easy to forget it being difficult when after you've farmed even a decent amount of gear (200-300 all resist with 30k+ hp) that the stuff there will now tickle you. But typically when you get to Inferno you have no all resist and more like 20k hp. I remember the first time we got to the skeleton king and everybody in my party kept getting one shot by his blink strike.

Such a thing is laughable now but yeah, when you have no gear you really do die. I remember the Butcher's cone chain attack taking over half my health every time it hit me when I first got to him which was not nice.


Act 2 won't one shot you any more, but it still does decent damage even if you have a chunk of resists. Not getting one shot =/= super easy. Getting one shot by everything when you had 300-400 resists in act 2 was ****ing stupid.

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I remember when a boss pack those Staypuff Marshmallow guys were chasing me throughout New Tristram.

It was the best thing Diablo 3 offered me.











then Blizzard nerfed THAT, and it's no longer possible ;_;

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I was able to kill my first elite group in act 1 solo.

Even if I was unable I would be more than capable of loading act 1, clearing all the zombie until the cathedral, rinse and repeat until I had an upgrade of some kind.

That's assuming i didn't want to just run hell again and buy upgrades that will allow me to more than handle act 1 inferno for 100k each.

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My gear is still fairly bad actually, and I went straight from Hell into A1 Inferno with no AH use (FD did kindly give me a weapon fairly quickly which added like 2k to my dps but I was still bad) so I think my view on it this is fairly unbiased.

As a ranged class A1 Inferno doesn't really get harder than A4 hell until like... the forest where you get the two nephalem icons?

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From: Forceful_Dragon | #456

I was able to kill my first elite group in act 1 solo.

Even if I was unable I would be more than capable of loading act 1, clearing all the zombie until the cathedral, rinse and repeat until I had an upgrade of some kind.

That's assuming i didn't want to just run hell again and buy upgrades that will allow me to more than handle act 1 inferno for 100k each.

I... don't recall this being true, FD <_<.

I remember your dying screams. Or maybe that was red and you were taking advantage of wizards being crazy OP.

Word of note: Wizards have absolutely no perspective on this game's difficulty.

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The Cult of Personality.

I'm not saying I didn't die in act 1. I did.

But I also entered act 1 STRAIGHT from hell and cleared my first elite group in the chapel. That was back when I had around 12-13k DPS. Took a lot of space to kite but I did not die to my very first group.

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Also wizards as a class aren't really op they just need a nerf to Venom Hydra and (another) nerf to Force Armor. If you don't use either of these (I don't anymore now that I can justify using Lightning Hydra and Force Armor isn't 100% necessary to not get one shotted by everything) they're not really op at all.

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The problem with Inferno is simple: There are five difficulty levels, for five different classes.

Wizards have the most tools to negate the bars set forth in Inferno. They can avoid damage completely and have skills which allow them to make mistakes and still come out alive to continue to fight.

Demon Hunters deal an overwhelming amount of damage and can avoid damage if skilled enough. They do not have the ability to make mistakes though.

Witch Doctors have the advantage of some considerable burst and the natural advantage of being ranged, but can be overwhelmed easier than the above two classes if not played precisely.

Barbs and Monks take turns trying to scrape by enough gear to be able to do anything. This Inferno nerf was 100% required for anyone sane to play Inferno. It wasn't impossible, but we are talking about 10k armor/1000 resists and still struggling in Act IV for some people.

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The Cult of Personality.

This Inferno nerf was 100% required for anyone sane to play Inferno. It wasn't impossible, but we are talking about 10k armor/1000 resists and still struggling in Act IV for some people.

No it's called buff Barbarian and Monk.

Like I said upping their passive DR and giving them a passive cc reduction would probably balance them fine. Since they have to get close to hit they should be able to better take hits and better mitigate CC without gear. 30% clearly wouldn't be enough. But 50% and 20% CC reduction or so? Could see this being enough for them to handle inferno as well as anyone else.

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Well actually the best thing D3 offered me was Money, which im trying to get off Paypal but their beings dicks and wont connect to my Bank account.

Ironically, despite nerfing the damage on basically everything past act 1, they actually buffed some of the boss modifyers. Either by reducing the cooldown(HI SHIELDING) or removing any Diminishing Returns they had(Nightmarish for example can perma fear now if your that unlucky). Invul was the only one that got hit with the bat and even then It's pretty unnoticeable.


The issue is while its true Damage was stupid for what gear you're supposed to have pre-nerf, they reduced the damage by far too much in some cases, ironically on the overtuned ones(see Lickers and Heralds) and bosses(did they really need a nerf? Why is Inferno Izzy hitting me for only 2k).

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From: Lopen | #462

This Inferno nerf was 100% required for anyone sane to play Inferno. It wasn't impossible, but we are talking about 10k armor/1000 resists and still struggling in Act IV for some people.

No it's called buff Barbarian and Monk.

Like I said upping their passive DR and giving them a passive cc reduction would probably balance them fine. Since they have to get close to hit they should be able to better take hits and better mitigate CC without gear. 30% clearly wouldn't be enough. But 50% and 20% CC reduction or so? Could see this being enough for them to handle inferno as well as anyone else.

Maybe but this way everyone stops complaining. Let's face it: You are the 1% of people who are like "aww, it isn't hard anymore." I am not even saying you are wrong about just buffing barbs/monks, but a lot of other classes who just had a lot of bad players were whining and Blizzard wants to keep the most happy by sacrificing the wants of the few.

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The Cult of Personality.

To be fair I will trust Blizzard's knowledge on keeping people addicted to a game.

<_<

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The Cult of Personality.

Eh I think I disagree you don't need to worry about pleasing those people in that regard though. If the game's been out less than a month and a player is already in inferno you've already got them hooked. They'll just farm till they get the gear to do it. It gives them a reason to keep playing which is more necessary than risking scaring them away-- those types aren't going to run away that easily I don't think. (though to clarify again, cause I don't want to give people the wrong idea-- Inferno A2 still kicks my ass but that's just because I'm poorly geared and not playing all that much-- I'm just thinking in terms of longevity)

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I was somewhat enjoying Inferno as it was before the nerf, farming 5 stacks and killing Siegebreaker, and I had even cleared some areas of act 4 and killed Izual and attempted Diablo himself.


But getting one shot by everything was not fun. When there would be 5 mobs with mortar and all of them shooting 3 mortars at a time, dodging the first 13 mortars and then dying to one that was just barely close to you was ****ing stupid. Not to mention they probably have 3 other affixes that are also simultaneously raping you in addition to the fact they probably can just run up to you and one shot you. The floor of effective health to be able to survive this stuff was simply too high that you could not reach it farming act 1, which is why the nerfed it.

It was a bit of a double nerf because they made it so you could actually get the better gear in act 1 (though small chance) at the same time as they nerfed the other acts, but eh. They could have waited for nerfing incoming damage but I think they still would have done it.

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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG

D3 kinda defies the conventions their other games put forth though for addictiveness. I'm not sure I trust them until it actually proves to work, since they're kinda reinventing a lot of things with this game.

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I think they still demand a lot. I like to believe as a person who plays a lot of games that I have a much firmer grasp on being "good" at them in general and I still have challenges with gear I would consider good.

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The Cult of Personality.

well i personally enjoyed going through inferno pre-nerf and am glad i got to see all of it before 1.0.3, but i can't speak to the experience of any of the non-wizard classes so yeah.

it might actually be harder to get through inferno heavily undergeared now, though. at the time i first beat a number of the bosses, i don't think i would have been able to kill them before they raged if they had rage timers, and now they do. even someone like kulle i'm sure took me at least 5 minutes to kill, probably more. don't have any firsthand experience with this so it might actually be possible to beat them even if they rage, but i kind of doubt it's a realistic prospect.

but inferno as a whole is definitely easier now if you have decent equipment. essentially it's been rebalanced so that anyone will be able to beat inferno without having to spend a completely ridiculous amount of time farming, even if they're not great at the game or have one of the less favored classes. personally i would have preferred if they just balanced out the classes and still demanded a ton out of you to get through, but eh. some of the more specific tuning was good - soul rippers/lashers for example were just way out of line with everything else. heralds could kill you near instantly from offscreen. oppressors could kill you literally instantly from offscreen (maybe they still can but the blanket nerf might have covered that). but most other enemies could be handled with sufficient care...from range, anyway.

really regardless of what the absolute level of difficulty is, it was and still is too swingy, but blizzard has said they're happy with the level of randomness so welp. i mean there's a huge difference between getting a reasonable map and getting a horrible elite pack right at the area entrance where there's no room to deal with them at all.
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Has anyone tried going for some of the more difficult achievements? I haven't even looked at a few categories of them. I just know when you first start out you get one about every five minutes.

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I hate all ugly people, regardless of gender. ~ thundersheep

as far as 'what is there to do after inferno' my goals are mainly

1) do it with every class
2) hardcore

after those yeah i'll be done with the game if they don't add something. that seems like plenty of replayability to me, though (i have no experience with other diablo games so i don't know what's up with playing the same game for years)
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From: HeroicGammaRay | #469

but inferno as a whole is definitely easier now if you have decent equipment. essentially it's been rebalanced so that anyone will be able to beat inferno without having to spend a completely ridiculous amount of time farming, even if they're not great at the game or have one of the less favored classes.

But I thought the whole point was that Inferno was supposed to be an ******* to beat.

That only the small percentage of people willing to put in the time would conquer it.


I mean the entire idea of Inferno to me coming in was that it wasn't supposed to be the sort of thing you could even beat by yourself.

I assumed that I would clear Normal, Nightmare and Hell by myself. Then maybe gear up just a bit before Red, Chris and I (with whoever else happened to play with us the most) would tackle Inferno as a team. Not because we want to hold hands and sing songs together while we do it, but because it would be bloody necessary if we wanted to stand a chance at all.

And even then I didn't think it would be a matter of a few weeks to beat inferno but would rather be a gradual progression through the same content but at a difficulty SO much greater that we'd do a quest, get into "lets do this mode" and then rejoice upon reaching the next checkpoint alive.




I'm not sure that PvP is the answer as Krippi said, but it does feel like there is something of a lack in the satisfying end game department.

In WoW there are high end raids and it is my understanding that it takes large numbers of people a great deal of effort to achieve progression in them. But yesterday morning right after I killed azmodan solo, chris showed up and we basically just said "well I guess we're strong enough now, lets clear act 4". And so we did. Yes I was very wizard like and died quite a few times, but it was virtually nonstop progression start to finish. It did not feel like "this is the most difficult part of the game".

And yes I still enjoy act 1 runs and I'm still going to be squeezing those in during my spare time. And I like that I've made closer to 50 dollars on the RMAH now because I don't have money often and so it's nice to have, and I know I'm going to start putting some more serious time into a hard core character and perhaps actually start to seriously run a different softcore class, but I just wish it felt like there was something more difficult to accomplish.

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Diablo has never had "end-game content". I'm not really sure why people are shocked that it doesn't exist now.

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I'm no longer a Nadal supporter. Andy Murray is my new favorite player/person. -Princess Anri

That is what they made inferno sound like it would be is the only thing that gives me pause.

Like it was supposed to be the incredibly difficult thing and so why is their first instinct to nerf it in two different ways at the same time?

Why not just make drops better in act 1 and see how that works out for awhile?

It just seems like they were so fast to make it easier that I don't even understand it.

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I'm not on inferno yet so I can't say for sure, but the difficulty that Acts 2-4 provided didn't seem like fun at all. Maybe for sadists like HGR, but getting one-shot by random mobs doesn't strike me as particularly enjoyable.

I mean, when you get down to it, people are going to complain either way - it's too hard or it's too easy. I'd wager the too hard crowd outweighed the too easy crowd by a good margin. For those people, increasing the drops in Act 1 doesn't help because they don't really want to spend the time grinding for hours to get moderately better gear that might not even help.

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I'm no longer a Nadal supporter. Andy Murray is my new favorite player/person. -Princess Anri

"might not even help"?

You realize that they put item level 63 gear INTO act 1.

It used to be that iLVL 61 was the highest that could possibly drop and suddenly you have a % chance to drop something that will roll and be the BEST item in the game. Something that wasn't even possible before.



It's like blizzard said "you think it's too hard to open the 'door' that is acts 2-4? Well okay we hid the key to that door in act 1, go knock yourselves out".

This sounds fine to me, but in the VERY same patch they also removed the door.



"Here's the potential best drops in the game. By the way you don't even need them anymore".

Why do both?

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The door is still there, FD. You are really overestimating the nerf.

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The Cult of Personality.

yeah there was lots and lots and lots of whining on the forums, and blizzard gave in. of course now they're whining that there's not much to do after clearing inferno...well, half of them are. the other half are complaining about repair costs.

i don't think the public will ever be satisfied, really.

aside: my early act 2 experience was like...engage 1-2 white mobs at a time, kite them across a couple screens and kill them. repeat. find elite pack, lure them back to town, get them stuck at the gate fighting the guards, kill. work through more whites, find another elite pack, repeat the lure trick. find a third elite pack, bring them to town again, realize that they have vampiric+plagued and the guards are standing in the plague so they're healing five times faster than you can damage them. whoops! leave them in town and use a waypoint to continue progressing. it was pretty hilarious.
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New topic to use whenever this one is done: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/63224895

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The Cult of Personality.

I salute you, HGR. I set out with the goal of clearing all difficulties solo with my wizard. I finally gave up and started playing in public games at the end of A1 Inferno. I didn't have quite as much patience as you. I do plan to solo it all at some point, just not necessarily in order and most likely after I've cleared it all in co-op.

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I hate all ugly people, regardless of gender. ~ thundersheep

Was D2's level cap always 99 or did it come in an expansion? Either way I don't see why D3 would go backwards with that. From what I hear from so many people is that grinding to 99 in D2 took forever but that's what made it fun for so many people.

I know video games aren't like they were in the late 90s-early 2000s, but everything D3 has done has seemed like a gigantic cash grab for Blizzard. Oh hey let's make your levels mean nothing at all for stats and just make the entire game based on gear. Athene runs level 39 boots because only 2-3 stats matter. Then let's set up a Real Money Auction House so we can take a cut because 60 bucks per person wasn't enough. Yes there's still a gold auction house but I've checked and NO ONE puts good items on that thing for fair price. Why would you when you can put it on the Real Money Auction and make...Real Money.

Also, everything seems set up so we can buy more expansions. It feels like they blatantly held back things that should have clearly been in the game since Day 1 just so they could charge us again later. No modern Action RPG should have only 5 classes. None. If the game had like 10-15 Acts I could understand but it has FOUR. PvP should be in a game like this from Day 1. I wanna fight Lopen's Monk with my Monk right damn now if I please.

I'm a diehard Call of Duty Guy so I understand this concept of bleeding the customer dry with "extra buyable content" that should've been in the game from day 1. The difference is that the experience you get from Call of Duty out of the box is ridiculously enjoyable so you forget the cash grab and just grind endlessly with friends for an invisible carrot. With Diablo it feels SO DAMN OBVIOUS. I'm reaching Act 3 on Nightmare and my urge to continue is surprisingly low. I only play now when HGR/Lopen/Numbers hop on. And that's weird because I love grinding in games, be it prestige in Call of Duty or grandiose gear in MMOs.

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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch

That's how Blizzard works.

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I'm no longer a Nadal supporter. Andy Murray is my new favorite player/person. -Princess Anri

Strange, I didn't feel like anything was missing from Diablo 3. It feels fine to me.

I also think it is strange you are implying Diablo 3 will get an expansion solely because Activision is greedy. Diablo 2 had an expansion, did it not?

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You beat yourself up with your past. Don't blame yourself, blame the world. Blame God. Blame me.

I'm so ready for PvP to be in this game.

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I hate all ugly people, regardless of gender. ~ thundersheep

How viable are multiple builds in Inferno? I poked around for Barb builds and they were mostly all the same. Are other classes similar?

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Donny: Are they gonna hurt us, Walter?
Walter: No, Donny. These men are cowards.

Monk has a lot of different ways you can go.

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The Cult of Personality.

Yeah I really want PVP

That should be a lot of fun

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_foolmo_
'To be foolmo'd is to be better opinion'd.' - Blairville

I find it kind of hard to believe that someone could get to and beat the Skeleton King in an hour with a fresh character unless they just beeline through all the areas in what case they're doing it wrong.

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I'm no longer a Nadal supporter. Andy Murray is my new favorite player/person. -Princess Anri

Next Topic should have one of Kormac's insane lines tbh

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GLORIOUS

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_foolmo_
'You are obviously intelligent and insightful' - Sir Chris about me

42 now. Grouped with Mac a bit earlier. Got my first legendary drop. Wizard helm. blah. Put it up on the ah.

>_>

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http://img.imgcake.com/Nevest356/1dollagifas.gif - Legen- wait for it...
We had sex and...I caught feelings! - Barney DARY!

Black Magic bars our way....

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Oh SuperNiceDog's doing it again dude.
SuperNiceDog, you ain't no pimp dude

Nevest you're skyrocketing.

I need to catch up to you with my Witch Doctor.

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Realo won gold at the Sex Olympics with a BROKEN FRIGGIN NECK.-Voltch

Theres lots of stuff missing from the game (The Followers for example were supposed to have 3 skills to choose from. What the hell happened?)

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Shoenin_Kakashi posted...

Theres lots of stuff missing from the game (The Followers for example were supposed to have 3 skills to choose from. What the hell happened?)

I'm not sure if you're talking about something else, but the followers all have 4 tiers of abilities, each with 2 options. Higher tiers become available with level, and you can retrain them at any time. Just right click on their unit frame.

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I hate all ugly people, regardless of gender. ~ thundersheep

From: turbopuns | #499

Shoenin_Kakashi posted...

Theres lots of stuff missing from the game (The Followers for example were supposed to have 3 skills to choose from. What the hell happened?)

I'm not sure if you're talking about something else, but the followers all have 4 tiers of abilities, each with 2 options. Higher tiers become available with level, and you can retrain them at any time. Just right click on their unit frame.

they were supposec to have 3 options for each tier




and before it closes

From: Shoenin_Kakashi | #496

Black Magic bars our way....

BUT THE WILL OF A TEMPLAR IS STRONGER!

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Oh SuperNiceDog's doing it again dude.
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