Lurker > Lopen

Forceful_Dragon posted...

If you didn't die when you did I think we keep rolling the dice on letting you take the lead

Doesn't make a lot of sense when I nearly got Sultan killed the day before and only stopped because Chris and Ulti were bodyguarding him

You're either scum who is trying to spin a narrative or town who is delusional about my role in the last game. I don't tend to associate "delusional" with you so you should consider a different discussion.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Lopen keep "Lopening" all last game and I was sad when he died because it made my job more difficult

This is nonsense by the way

You were able to control town into a docile state with the worst gameplan ever without my chaotic element. And I know you know this.

Throw FD back into the "with Sultan" POE

Always lynch Chris first and decide between those two

Come on guys

I'm alive now

Let's solve the game. You are speaking to confirmed town who will surely never get another chance to do glorious things like speak... or vote... again

It's so sad

wallmasterz posted...

Im town bro. I dont hate a Chris lynch, I am apathetic about Chris and have him and Corrik in my ??? pile.

Lynch Chris tomorrow and townclear yourself then. Chris->Sultan is the path

##Vote: Wallz

An ant have no quarrel with a boot

My reads reached a firm conclusion

Perhaps the most firm stance of anyone in the game right now

Town
Corrik
Sbell
Mzero
FD (probably even without mayoral confirmation)

Scum
Chris
Wallz (if Chris is gf)
Sultan (if Chris is not gf)

If you outright don't mayor me just treat fd as confirmed town-- no point in dwelling on it in that case

If there is a way to attempt to mayor me and undo the mayor I'm OK with that too

Anyway I do recommend using a Pokmon to super confirm fd. He pretty much can't be scum if you can't mayor me

I would only not use a Pokmon if one of the following is true

You're sure I'm scum
You're sure fd is town

Otherwise use it to clear him

Lopen posted...

And it's probably just Chris + Sultan in that case

Always lynch Chris then if he doesn't flip GF lynch Sultan

It is always wallz if Chris is gf

His preemptive attacking of fd feels very scummy here

Wallz is probably terrified of a Chris lynch because he knows Chris is gf

Lynch Chris not because I said he's scum and not because he's voting me

Because his reads have been even less consistent than mine and he's gotten no heat for it

You can also set up two consecutive mislynches by intentionally avoiding my reads to avoid that dastardly fd scheme

Basically would mean you only ever mayor scum lynches

Obellisk posted...

how does that work?

If scum hammerer can just override mayor it's a pointless Pokmon to have

And it's probably just Chris + Sultan in that case

Always lynch Chris then if he doesn't flip GF lynch Sultan

Try using mayor

If you can't mayor you know FD is town

My claim is that you all kneel

Why is everyone giving Chris a pass don't get it you can't all be scum

Can we get some votes. Anything

Lea and Kirby went on to a better place

Ulti did not play the role optimally because it seems he put 0 scum on it

It's less I'm trying to argue he'd play it optimally and more that you're arguing he'd play it in the worst possible way to keep a Corrik mislynch in play

wallmasterz posted...

So Ulti prematurely bussing a scummate would make Ulti look better yes, but its a costly gambit

Only if Ulti succeeds

If he fails it makes the one he was trying to look better

I don't know why you're thinking the best way to play Ulti's role is to put scum on it and then not actually bus them

If I'm scum my scummate is pretty obviously Sultan tbh

wallmasterz posted...

So we cant clear someone just because scum ulti didnt pretend to suspect them

Either Ulti named no scum on his list or he should have been trying to bus the scum from his list

Do you agree with this?

You think it's me and FD but you voted me earlier after I voted FD?

Why does me x FD make any sense. I feel like you're not even trying to find a scummate for me that makes sense.

Here is what I challenge you to do.

1. Assume I am scum. Find my scummate based on how the two of us have played the game. Use actual examples from the game to support your stance.
2. Assume I am not scum. Find the two scum based on how they have played the game. Use actual in game posts and actions to support your stance.

Complete both exercises and share the results.

Of course he posts reads now as I make that post. That poe actually looks decent if you throw me out.

Let's talk about Corrik. Why do you think Ulti would not bus Corrik if he's scum? Can you give a reason for that? Do you think Ulti is above bussing?

Like he can't give any town reads

Can't give a third scum in case he's wrong. Can scarcely even give a second scum.

I think the problem wallz is having is that my reads have been for the most part good so he's finding precious little people for me to get steered into so he has to just grit his teeth and call me scum and hope no one notices he's not actually playing the game.

Wallz is like willfully avoiding trying to do anything that isn't getting me lynched pretty much

10

Single handedly makes its game worth playing (and imo in contention for best PW game) and probably the main reason I considered not giving 1-3 a 9.

Just perfect. It feels so high stakes with Maya's involement, the twists all hit, it doesn't overstay its welcome, and the annoying staple characters that plague other cases don't do more than they should.

Aqua Teen Hunger Force
Space Ghost Coast 2 Coast
Robot Chicken
Rick and Morty

Unlike a lot of people in this game I show my work

I can walk you through the full evolution of my suspicions and it's largely all there for you to read

Compare to Sir Chris who has gone

Lopen scum -> Lopen bad town -> Lopen scum
Sultan lock scum I tunnel him for 30 hours -> Sultan is ignored even when he claims an ability -> Sultan still ignored
FD might be a good shot for vig -> I'm going to lynch Lopen instead of considering FD might be scum

Or Wallz who has gone I tunnel Lopen all game -> actually Lopen might be town it's Kirby -> no wate it's Lopen again

Note you and Sultan have both given some merit to lynching mzero btw. As did Lea. You're not all scum so don't act like it's absurd to the point where you'd have to he scum to consider it.

Like you can say "oh why is mzero in your town pile" but no one actually made a very compelling case other than "why would scum bus" I basically had to dig it up myself

(Sbell was only scum because of Mzero read-- doesn't actually count)

Forceful_Dragon posted...

There are two people in your town pile who you said you previously would be lynching today at the exclusion of any others.

Wondering if you knew that.

I do but now I've digested the flips and stuff

Really you just need to talk me through why people being scum doesn't make sense with logic that isn't "but why would they bus???"

I think I'm pretty set in this btw.

Like if I start conspiracy braining into my town pile just lynch me right away.

I honestly think Chris is slam dunk scum and then depending what he flips you fork into Sultan or Wallz depending on whether he flips GF or not

Like I know you think it's me but I have no idea who your other suspects are and who is even in your town pile. I actually know at least two of FD's suspects

Can everyone give their top Scum choices and town reads?

This is me right now

Scum
Chris
Wallz
Sultan

Town
Mzero
Corrik
Sbell

??? (Leaning town)
FD

Have you, wallz?

Good enough for me

Now ISO Sir Chris and realize I'm right and let's win

Mudkip
Hariyama
Rayquaza
Salamance

The Boss

Forceful_Dragon posted...

You seem to be of the impression that scum actually scanned me (and with who/what?) whereas I was only of the impression that a caught ulti was going down with a salvo of bullshit.

Incorrect. I'm saying if scum did scan you that wouldn't make any sense because scum having an alignment detecting role doesn't make sense so them actually having scanned to get that info made a lot less sense than Ulti just knowing you're GF or something.

My issue was more that I thought you were not denying Ulti was telling the truth about how you scan-- so you're saying there's nothing in your role that you're aware of that implies you scan as anything other than your proper alignment, right?

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Also I didn't deny being 4th alignment? The hell I didn't.

My response is that scum must surely kill me to stop me from using my power to get them lynched with fewer total votals, and that once I'm dead at scums hands everyone will see me having flipped town.

In what world is "my body will flip town" not a denial? .

Ulti seemed to imply you'd scan as 4th alignment which you specifically did not deny

You said you're town but how I read it is you were miller(ish), not outright denying how you're scanned

That being said

I think 3 scum with Scare being able to kill himself seems really rough for scum

It is probably 4 scum with the excess of killing roles being tempered by Ulti and Scare's suiciding at mylo if the conditions aren't met

Forceful_Dragon posted...

My conclusions are that it might have been 3vs12 to prevent scare from running away with the game with strong RNG and to give Ulti more time to knock out his list before mylo.

I could see this actually. Ulti apparently not having any bus targets on his list would fit that scenario a lot better too.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

We still don't know what circumstances put a gun in Chris's hand but he seemed to say he did not have the option to kill on night 1.

I think Chris is a scum extra kill that only works if 2+ scum are dead.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Sounds like you only think Chris is scum cuz wallz reaching

Not at all

Chris has a lot of strikes against him. His suspicion list has low key been everywhere. Day 1 he was tunneling you, day 2 he abandoned you and didn't bat an eyelash when you had a killing ability when he apparently also has one. Day 2 he was saying kill FD, when I suggest to do it day 3 he says I'm scum. He also spent the first bit of the game basically using roleplaying as a crutch to do nothing useful-- and frankly I can't see why scum would kill Lea over him if Chris himself wasn't scum.

Lynching Chris first over wall is mostly used to help solve wall. If Chris just flips scum scanning scum we can mostly clear wall. I think they're both scum BUT Chris + you or Chris + FD is kind of a possibility too.

It could be Chris + FD (+ ???)

Chris having zero interest in pursuing FD and instead lateraling to me is also weird considering he was saying Lea shooting him was a solid pick yesterday

At this point I pretty much only want to lynch Chris though. Him going for the lynch on me just doesn't fit his game up through this point. If we want to consider whether it's FD we can do that after Chris flips.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

But if wallz is town this makes no sense to lynch Chris before Wallz

What? If Wallz is town we don't want to lynch him at all?

Corrik7 posted...

If he was godfather, he wouldn't need to discern if you were bluffing.

He would

I just said Chris was scum. I could have figured that out via something like MZero's ridiculous "I saw the whole flavor" scan or detective or whatever else.

On the flip side

If Chris is just a guilty scanning scum it makes Wallz look better as I feel scum would have more reason to believe me and kill me n1 if they had reason to believe it was a legitimate scan