Lurker > HaRRicH

I've seen it argued they are different when discussing nuances, but really I do not know the differences between them.

Dudunsparce posted...

Nominate fighting games

time for max chaos between different versions

Leonhart4 posted...

Yeah let's do fighting games so we can argue over whether Smash is a fighting game

Won't have to fight about it when SF2 divides and conquers itself out of the equation. =)

Also nominating fighting games...and also, just a broad nomination of doing a week of games based off of genres instead of systems like we're wrapping up here.

Fighters
Platformers (2D? 3D? Both??)
RPGs
Metroidvanias
Indies
Rougelites
Point And Clicks

Just as an example -- interests may vary.

I would be comfortable combining the different SF2-games on the SNES and just going by the name that had the most votes among them, personally.

Nominate: highly-acclaimed games that do not hold up well anymore

HaRRicH posted...

Super Mario World (lock)
Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past (lock)
Super Mario Kart (coulda been DKC, SM, or MMX...but this mighta been the coolest multiplayer had ever been on consoles up to that point)
Chrono Trigger (coulda been FF3/6 or SMRPG...but there should be an RPG, and CT feels the most timeless)

Shout-outs to Super Mario All-Stars.

Remove: Chrono Trigger
Add: Donkey Kong Country

I see arguments for MMX and SM that I've made for MM2 and C:SotN, right, and MMX/SM are both great games that I much prefer to any in the DKC-series. That said, DKC's trilogy was bigger than MMX's and I didn't see SM at the front of my Walmart's video game aisle. Hate to have it all be Nintendo for this system's Rushmore, but here we are.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I get thinking SNES should have an RPG here but not a single RPG mentioned in the topic is actually playable on my SNES. I think having no PAL release is a pretty large con and since the SNES has a top tier library even without RPGs, I think that's better.

On one hand, 'murica...but upon further thought, that's a persuasive point about lacking European releases. Have we had another game with this issue in this topic series? Not sure that we have this past week at a glance.

Nominate: games associated with emulation.

Super Mario World (lock)
Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past (lock)
Super Mario Kart (coulda been DKC, SM, or MMX...but this mighta been the coolest multiplayer had ever been on consoles up to that point)
Chrono Trigger (coulda been FF3/6 or SMRPG...but there should be an RPG, and CT feels the most timeless)

Shout-outs to Super Mario All-Stars.

I would concede Tomb Raider has improved since the PS1 days from what I've gathered and dabbled in. I just did not care for the series when they were in the peak of its mainstream zeitgeist.

Also, just to make sure it gets mentioned: Oddworld deserves a quick nod. Not placing it in my vote, but that was a very PS1-game that also had some degree of face-of-the-system to it.

Talking about magazines and Tekken 3, it was a big deal when EGM gave Tekken 3 a 10/10.

I know C:SotN seems like a favorites-pick (which is partially true in my vote), but for what it's worth: it was a critical darling in video game magazines at the time in a way I don't think many of the other non-FF7/MGS/RE options being mentioned were (Tekken 3 was an exception to be fair and maybe Gran Turismo), it redefined what was already one of gaming's biggest series at that time and did so without taking the 3D turn in an era where people were afraid we were losing 2D games, it has its own notable spoiler, and it's now responsible for half the name of a popular genre. Also, as a personal opinion, while I first played it a decade late on Xbox 360 it was immediately excellent then...whereas I did not feel that way about any Crash, Spyro, or Tomb Raider game even at the time of their releases. They get mascot-credit -- which is worthy of noting here! -- but while they were good for marketing the PS1 none of them were as decisively THE PlayStation mascot as Mario or Sonic were for their systems, so I give them less credit on that point. Cloud and Solid Snake were arguably the face of that system too, and that's because Lara/Crash/Spyro didn't fill the gap a good game mascot needed to do then: have an *excellent* game.

Bias is here, but so is its clear impact. C:SotN is worthy of the conversation and vote. Maybe TR/Crash/Spyro deserve credit for being the games I played during that era, but C:SotN was received very well then too and was so good a decade later on a different system that I won't hold it against the game here.

HaRRicH posted...

Final Fantasy 7
Metal Gear Solid
Resident Evil 2
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night

Shout-outs to the demo-discs.

Remove: RE2
Add: RE1

This Tony Hawk-talk inspired me for another nomination.

Nominate: sports games.

Final Fantasy 7
Metal Gear Solid
Resident Evil 2
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night

Shout-outs to the demo-discs.

MarkS2222222222 posted...

WWF: No Mercy

Change my vote please!

Remove: SSB
Add: WWF No Mercy

Nominate: SNL cast members

Super Mario 64 (non-negotiable)
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (non-negotiable)
Goldeneye 007 (Perfect Dark was better and this doesn't hold up so well anymore but it's still non-negotiable)
...
Super Smash Bros. (also acceptable: MK64, BK, SF64, or -- obviously of course -- Beetle Adventure Racing, Mischief Makers, or Bomberman 64)

ZenOfThunder posted...

Conker

making sure he doesnt get shut out

Not my vote but thank you.

Sonic & Knuckles

Respect to that cartridge.

Nominate: video game designers.

Grand Theft Auto 3 (preferred GTA:SA but will respect the original 3D game-changer in the series)
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (my tiebreaker here was which MGS-game would look better on the mountain)
God of War
Silent Hill 2 (this system has SH2 and RE4 but both have so few votes here -- not sure I understand what dynamic's happening here but the genre arguably peaked this generation)

BSkullX posted...

Mega Man 4

Respect.

Also loving all the Contra support.

SMB1 (can't replace, though I almost tried with Duck Hunt)
SMB3 (the second-oldest "greatest game ever" contender I would still respect in a conversation and only behind...)
MM2 (...trickiest choice here, but this was the first game I was ever hyped for and the series had six mainline gameson the same system)
LoZ (#goldcartridge)

SBAllen was right about S3&K. We should have consolidated efforts into S&K -- people would have thought of its connectivity anyway.

The MK talk leads me to nominate.

Nominate: games in arcades.

...Mighty Max was a show?

I just had those awesome toys.

Agreed. Sonic 1 gets "started the series" cred but is really rough while Sonic 2 is where it rightfully blew up. It's like OG Mega Man in that way.

Sonic 2
Sonic 3
Sonic & Knuckles
Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine

I just want to respect for a moment: for the first time, ChatGPT sniped a good nomination that none of us mentioned. Judy Hopps isn't making my Rushmore personally but she was great.

And I appreciate everyone's self-reporting on their level of got'ness.

KokoroAkechi posted...

Aren't you banned?

We'll see if they have the same staff or the same rules next time since both seem to change each year. This is correct about them being haters last year though.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I knew it hadn't been a year, but I dared to dream that you were traveling and were somewhere with an active fair nearby.

You got me :(

red13n posted...

I was hoping for some other fair even knowing it wasn't nearly a year yet.

guffguy89 posted...

you got me. However, I ask the same question now that I asked in your last topic about this. Why do you not try to do this at other fairs? It seems like you just try for that same fair every year and thats it. There's likely hundreds of fairs of various sizes that go on near you during fair season if you live a stones throw away from any major metro area.

The main thing is it becomes a bigger risk with time, travel, costs, and if the game is even there. I do need to try this though. The game is not at every fair, nor is it even at the same one each year necessarily...but, you know, whisper of a dream and such because the game is out there. I dunno that hundreds of fairs is the right estimate, but there are others. I need to take the chance, you're right.

Aecioo posted...

first thought was

oh no, harrich is posting his only topic of the year where he doesn't ask b8 to help him with something

Legitimately funny.

TomNook7 posted...

Also Mario Power Tennis is incredible

Big facts, no disputing it.

Tag for seeing if TomNook was wrong or not.

Dead Cells looks cool and I appreciate its Metroidvania-take as someone who enjoys that genre, but it didn't connect with me much gameplay-wise...only tried it a little. It feels like a weird mix of genres, but glad to see the attempt there anyway.

Exactly regarding BoI and the wiki. Hades is much more user friendly and deserves a lot of credit for that. I know part of BoI's vibe is overcoming the difficulty, but that is not difficult -- it's vague on key mechanics and has been an issue long before Hades was released.

Good to know, thanks ya'll! I don't think I'll make dedicated progress toward Ending 3. I'll replay the game off and on though -- been a lot of fun!

I did an interesting thing today though and revisited my original roguelite, one of my favorite games: The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth. It's been maaaaaybe a year since I last played it, and holy crap -- it was interesting to see the differences.

In short: Hades wants to see you succeed. Binding of Isaac wants to see you die. Think Celeste VS Super Meat Boy or Undertale VS LISA the Painful...

...and first of all, it's worth noting which type of game came first in those comparisons and also which type of game succeeded better with sales and reception. Not to imply all of the harder games that came first paved the way for the next-in-line games, necessarily -- LISA was under a year old before Undertale came out and I would not credit it to Undertale's success -- but it's fascinating to see.

Getting back to Hades VS Binding of Isaac:

***I expected Binding of Isaac to feel better because of its hold-a-button attack controls compared to Hades and it's press/mash-a-button attack controls. This remains true, however...

***Hades will tell you what powers you are receiving within eight(?) categories and then give you three random choices with mostly-very-clear descriptions of what they do before you pick which one of the three. Binding of Isaac will let you look at the power -- one out of hundreds with no prior description before and sometimes just a vague hint even after picking it up. Now, to its credit, the item is usually the same every time, but also I can't remember them all -- some of them look too similar anyway even if I could -- and I don't want to always have a website up scrolling trying to visually match the icons to see what I'm about to grab.

***Binding of Isaac does have a lot more variations in its runs though. The worlds, the enemies, the room shapes, the bosses, of course the powers again, all that. Hades varies these too but not as much.

***Hades crushes it with its emphasis on story and voice-acting. Binding of Isaac tells you everything you need to know in its opening cutscenes and grossness of its enemies, and if you're lucky you'll get to an ending that might make sense but is never assured it will. Hades confidently if not brilliantly weaves its story directly into the gameplay loop with story arcs, character development, enemy profiles, pom-based relationships, item-specific dialogues depending on your weapon/trinket/boon, and more. I just can't keep paying full attention to it anymore outside of key story stuff like the endings, but goodness gracious this game is full of that.

***Hades is linear with some occasions branching paths. Binding of Isaac gives you routes where you can skip ahead thanks, but also it is more maze-like with secret rooms and obscure teleport-methods along the way. You really don't always know what "the end" is supposed to look like from the beginning each time either.

***Hades has very customizable challenges for increased difficulty. Meanwhile, Binding of Isaac has a variety of pre-set challenges.

***Hades has you gambling for powerful synergies at the end of each encounter. Binding of Isaac has you gambling similarly with each floor and power-room, but also you're gambling for more coins/keys/bombs a lot in the arcade rooms too.

***Both games have you fucking up your parents in boss fights -- Hades has your father as the eponymous character to fight at the end while Binding of Isaac has you fighting your mother at or near the end each time. Either way, don't tell your parents.

That:s enough for now. This was eye-opening more than I thought it would be to play them back-to-back though.

Waluigi1 posted...

I love how much you're still playing it lol. I think about coming back to the game pretty often.

It's been surprising to me too!

A thing happened. Hades didn't fight, credits rolled, Persephone came home, and I got the last trinket. Did it with my first 2-hear run too. Progress!

I think there was some debate on if this means I "beat" the game now. Is there another significant ending to note ahead, and is it reasonably within reach from where I'm at now or it more like "fulfill every prophesy, even catching all fish" or something?

Braid!

Bugs Bunny (Looney Tunes)
The Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog (Monty Python)
Duracell Bunny (commercials)
The Wild Bunny (Bioshock)

https://youtu.be/WUeBKC-1oaY?si=Spo5CoybsUmPmfVJ

Athena deserves more credit. Ah well!

HaRRicH posted...

I am very skeptical on this +1 side of the argument for death defiance, but now it's my last mirror skill so...gonna have to learn your strategy in action.

Welp, I cleared this mirror skill after all.

I felt a little sneaky getting some death-health, that was fine, but just getting 30% of my health back on the next life is a loss in my mind compared to the three 50% death defiance I had before. Still...if this was combined with some of those boons and trinkets that give you more power and toughness at lower health, this can become more interesting.

My next run's gonna be the Knuckles again (following the Dark Thirst almost every time), and I decided to max out the grabbing aspect with the Titan's Blood...I liked the auto dodge, but also holy crap I see room for a lot of multi-hits with how this can bring enemies together. I want to get Demeter's crystal lasers with this and pull these fools into the lasers while I go ham on them...should be fun soon.

Yesmar_ posted...

Too Many Cooks

Glad to see this got a nomination.

ATHF
Robot Chicken
Moral Orel
Rick and Morty

Kenri posted...

Escaping with every weapon is a great goal to strive for right now!

Mission accomplished: finished the Knuckles.

So much Titan Blood to spend soon.....

most_games_r_ok posted...

.your damage can get to absurd levels as long as you seek out boons for the build you want and get lucky with setup.

This is the lesson today. I tag-teamed my favorite (Demeter) with Artimus and took over with crystals that were lasting 6.2 seconds as well as faster accular, increased damage, and chill ability...plus from Chaos I got another bloodstone. With those factors combined, this was the first time I ever escaped without dying and I even almost had full health against Hades by the time I won. It took a little planning for the Duo attack to make this happen, but once it did...it just clicked.

I am very skeptical on this +1 side of the argument for death defiance, but now it's my last mirror skill so...gonna have to learn your strategy in action.

Bonus boon damage, yes, it's solid. Chaos are great in the first underworld. I need to try them more in the second underworld now that I'm getting better.

I have one trinket/keepsake/whatever left to unlock. I imagine it's got something to do with Persephone...we'll see.

No God Mode! Thought about it early on though and I like the sound of how God Mode slowly improves for players --sounds mechanically sound.

Can't swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth with a hand on your King James Bible app.

This isn't a single game, but looking at big series.....

Nominate: Robot Masters in the Mega Man series

colliding posted...

I was expecting this game to go way more off the rails, so that part 3 would be basically an all-new game with a few references to the original. But the game actually adhered to the source material way more than I thought it would.

Along this vein, I've thought for awhile it would take three parts to complete FF7's OG-story but there may be enough threads from the new elements in these new games as well as other FF7-related releases that we might get a fourth and final part that is largely brand new...like post-game after-the-main-plot gameplay and story but put together like a new and final conclusion to the overall story they're telling now.

No, I don't know what that looks like exactly.

azuarc posted...

Princess Peach's Castle

Thank you -- was looking for this.

Princess Peach's Castle
Bob-Omb Battlefield
Whomp's Fortress
Tall Tall Mountain

...oh wait, Zen banned the castle! You get stars, exploration, and NPCs there like any other stage, it evolves with your progress, it's bigger than most worlds, it features the biggest secret in the game, has more "wonder" to it than most stages, and dangit it just feels good to jump through that glitchy spot in the spiral staircase room. It is a hub world more than a traditional stage, but also if someone said Gruntilda's Lair in a Banjo-Kazooie topic like this I would consider that valid too.

Alternatively, nominate hub worlds.