Board 8 > Board 8's Top 20 N64 Games - The Results

(+) Yeah! (+)

I never knew Diddy Kong Racing was pulled from shelves after Conker's Bad Fur Day was released. I GUESS it makes sense given how badly Nintendo tried to bury that game (it wasn't ever mentioned in Nintendo Power beyond the E3 2000 article, and in every store it was plastered with warnings not to buy it for anyone under 17). In a day and age when M-rated games were mostly realistic-looking featuring zombies, guns, and FATALITIES, was Conker the first cartoony one?

Dedf1sh posted...

Rainbow Road is not too long. Perhaps all other tracks are just too short.

This. They removed a lap drom it in MK8 and it seemed so anticlimactic.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It is cool for them to be right next to each other but Perfect Dark ahead. That feels just right.

And yeah, I recently played through a lot of N64 games for the first time and replaying.

Rogue Squadron is so good. The game holds up well, it had charm, it's just so fun. I'm disappointed it missed.

Also Conker is a boring game.

Rouge Squadron is shockingly still a lot of fun. Definitely charming! Episode 1 Racer didnt age quite as well, but I still think its up there with the best N64 racing games.

#6. Star Fox 64 (1997)
Total Points: 70
List Appearances: 28
First Place Votes: 3
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a170e056.jpg

Write-up provided by Lopen
There is so much this game does right. It only has 7 stages in a playthrough, but there are a variety of routes you can take through the game and a ton of different possible paths (generally solvable how to unlock the routes without a guide, a plus) to make playthroughs feel different, as well as an expert mode. The short length really makes the score element and exploration (as in figuring out how to get to the different routes) elements click, and all the varying gimmicks of the stages like the varying vehicles and objectives are actually enjoyable, which is sadly something later games in the series failed to do. I've probably played through this game a hundred times and have gold medalled every stage on expert-- I'm not a completionist type player, but this game is that good, and is one of the more challenging games on the N64 which is something the console was lacking in a bit. I've even done weird challenges like get to the final Star Wolf battle with no Wingmen and 1v4 them, just for fun. I haven't replayed the whole N64 Library recently but I'd be shocked if this wasn't the one that aged best for me.

The dialogue in this game is legendary-- unlike a lot of games that get memed to death this game's memes are thoroughly enjoyable in the moment, and unironically (for me anyway!). Like yes they're ridiculous but I think the game is actually self aware and doubling down going hard on the enthusiasm, and I love it. It adds so much, particularly in the Star Wolf 4v4 skirmishes. I'm probably making some people upset that the write-up isn't just a wall of quotes. Whatever, you've seen em before.

The only thing it does wrong is set the bar too high. No Star Fox game before or since has come close. Even the soundtrack is great-- I'll take the Star Wolf theme in this game over the assault remix any day. Give us a proper Star Fox game on the Switch Nintendo I'm begging ya!

Boooo

It's amazing they had all that good voice work for 1997

tazzyboyishere posted...

From GoldenEye to OG Smash, peak N64 gaming was hanging out with a group, passing the controllers around the room, and talking crap from the sidelines as you watched.

It's uncanny that I wrote this for the MK64 write-up, and the games that dropped, in sequence, were Goldeneye & Perfect Dark, Super Smash Bros, and then Mario Kart 64.

Ironic then that we have only single-player games remaining.

azuarc posted...

Ironic then that we have only single-player games remaining.

On the board that makes posts such as this:

tazzyboyishere posted...

Must be nice having friends

As I said in the nom topic, I had a top 3 and I had to pick one to give +5, and I straight up refused to give it to a single-player game on principle.

-hotdogturtle-- posted...

On the board that makes posts such as this:
Must be nice having friends

I mean, sure, but this was during the N64 era. What I do as a lonely shut-in adult has nothing to do with who I hung out with in the late 90s.

Even the friends I do hang out with as an adult don't play video games so my days of multiplayer are over. Besides smash, but that's just online or at tournaments.

Catching up here......

LightningStrikes posted...

Gonna be honest this list is kinda highlighting how weak the N64s library was. Easily the weakest first party Nintendo lineup surely?

tazzyboyishere posted...

#10. GoldenEye 007 (1997)

...More recently the game has also become the textbook example of a game that ages badly and isnt fun to play anymore.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/87a21426.jpg

Lopen posted...

I'm disappointed no THQ wrestling games made it (thought No Mercy or Revenge had a shot) and also Shadows of the Empire (game is to this day the only Star Wars game I like much)

Yeah I threw a point to both Shadows & WCW/NWO Revenge - the former can be a little rough to play, but I think the latter is certainly among the Top 20 most fun N64 entries

I agree it's perfect that GoldenEye & Perfect Dark fell one after the other - I would have been fine with them in either order

The most fun thing to do in original Smash now imo is to try and beat single-player with Jigglypuff on Very Hard w/1 stock - managed it 2 or 3 times after maaaaannny many tries. Multiplayer is just so much better on Melee and Ultimate, it's rough playing it on the og.

MK64 has maybe the best collection of glitch/speedrunning shortcuts in a single game - such a wide variety, requiring many different approaches. Still my favorite Mario Kart. Just played 4P about 4 hours ago in fact - doesn't get old hearing "How did I go from 1st to 2nd?? I didn't see anyone pass me!" Even battle mode was more fun than I remembered.

Star Fox 64 is a fine game - of course the best in its series - but too high imo.

To be clear on that, I spend the rest of the writeup disagreeing! I mean, in the Mount Rushmore topic for games that have aged badly GoldenEye was the most voted by far. Thats its reputation. Yet I played through the campaign this year and had a great time!

Also the dialogue in Star Fox 64 is memed because its great writing working as intended not bad writing imo.

Wow, wish I had not missed the voting.
Especially for the Saturn

Well that's unfortunate I was hoping Star Fox 64 would at least beat Banjo. It was the only game left that was an all time great for me and Mario 64 is the only one left I actually gave any points to. (I'm hoping it wins)

The top 3 is definitely Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, and Majoras Mask, probably in that order. Interested to see which comes out on top between Paper Mario and Banjo-Kazooie though! Very strong top 5, those are all really great games.

Digging into the stats it is notable that Pokmon has the most appearances of any franchise so far (Mario being split up between the different series) even though were only at the N64! Sonic actually has the most number ones so far although that will get tied with this list.

I'll guess OoT > SM64 > MM > PM > BK

Dang a LOT of stuff is getting snubbed here. In addition to the five that MSG mentioned, we still haven't seen Banjo-Tooie, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Pokemon Stadium 1, Harvest Moon 64, or Jet Force Gemini (tbf the only ones I could have POSSIBLY seen getting into the top 5 were the first two I mentioned; the rest could have been decent picks for 11-20).

(edit: initially had F-Zero X on there but forgot it did show up)

Eh, one Stadium on here is fine

I'd boot the mario parties.

#5. Banjo-Kazooie (1998)
Total Points: 73
List Appearances: 26
First Place Votes: 3
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e0ffd970.jpg

Write-up provided by Kamekguy
Banjo-Kazooie was the last game I played with my mother before she completely stopped playing video games. The 3D camera of games like Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time made her motion sick very easily, but for whatever reason, Banjos follow-behind camera was comparatively okay, so this was the last adventure I remember having with her before I became the one who plays video games. Because of that, theres probably no world in gaming that I have memorized more thoroughly, able to picture pretty much every room in the game in my mind, all the jingles, all the characters - it was my mission to savor this experience as much as possible.

Fortunately, Banjo-Kazooie might have been one of the best possible games to do that with.

If Mario 64 is a celebration of 3D movement, Banjo is a celebration of 3D space. The bear and bird are quite a bit slower than Mario is at navigation, but to compensate, nearly every inch of Gruntildas Lair has something to it. Be it a collectible, a character, or a small little challenge, theres a very deliberate, adventurous spirit about Banjo that injects personality into every one of its worlds. Every NPC has a stupid name and voice, every tiny little area has a different musical motif of the stagea main theme that you might hear for less than a minute, every move adding to your repertoire in an attempt to give every single button on the N64 controller a place and function (with apologies to D-Pad/L Button control enthusiasts). There is an earnest desire to maximize both the players options and every bit of real estate to make each world matter, from the almost puzzle box like nature of infiltrating Mad Monster Mansion or Rusty Bucket Bay to the way the seasons change the world in Click Clock Wood to how transformations let you traverse the smallest nooks and crannies of Bubblegloop Swamp, and even extra bits of Gruntildas Lair! Banjo is a game that actively rewards every bit of exploration a player can give with a wide breadth of collectibles and secrets, so much so that the penultimate boss fight is a trivia contest challenging you to remember it all! Everything in Kazooie is tightly and neatly designed around the idea of collection, but everything is left compact and purposeful in ways that many other 3D platformers and adventure games in general following in its footsteps would struggle to reach.

The moment that I first took flight in Kazooie was indescribable. Id felt Mario fly around, Id seen Pilotwings, I knew how it was supposed to feel. But when I could keep mashing the button to make Kazooie fly higher in Treasure Trove Cove, and the music faded out, and I found a lighthouse towering over the stage that, in any other game Id encountered to this point, would be a totally different zone? I felt Id somehow cheated the game. It felt like this wasnt how platformers were supposed to work, they couldnt be this big or congruous or densely made. And, in that regard, I think BK might be the most N64 game on the N64. Its not the biggest, its not the most ambitious, its not the best controlling, most technically impressive, or funniest. But it earnestly builds around all of the wonder that being in 3D space can provide, with purpose and elegance, and achieves all of the ambitions it sets out to capture with a cheeky grin and some pretty dang good jumps ice keys rendered uncollectible by future hardware updates excluded!

Write-up provided by MrSmartGuy
I actually typically straight-up dislike platformer games. But Banjo Kazooie is 64-bit collectathon platforming perfection. The characters are goofy and their jokes land pretty well. The levels are beautiful and full of things to find (something the sequel had a lot of trouble with). And it just feels awesome to play. Banjo and Kazooie have dozens of moves to keep from ever feeling stale, and just in case it was, you have Mumbo Jumbo turning them into an alligator or a honeybee to really switch things up. The missions are tons of fun, and totally varied from level to level, and you can explore to your heart's content, because it doesn't rip you out of the level when you get a jiggy and ruin the pacing!

I used to casually speedrun this game back in the 2010s on XBLA. It keeps track of your best times for you and has a leaderboard to push more competition. I think my best time ever was just shy of 3 hours, but its been a few years since Ive hopped on to see, so I may well be exaggerating on that. I didn't know any of the tricks, but I just had so much fun playing it that I loved playing it over and over.

Seems like the right place for it. Amazing technically when it came out.

Personal ranking of top four:
Majora > Paper Mario > Ocarina > SM64

Expected ranking: the opposite, although could swap 3 and 4.

Banjo-Kazooie is my friend's favorite game of all time, and it's not even out of nostalgia since he didn't even play it until well into adulthood. His literal only complaint about it is that the notes reset each time you enter a stage and you have to collect them all in one go; otherwise he considers it a perfect game.

Kamek at least helps me understand the appeal a bit.

I'll leave it at that!

I think another legit gripe about the game is that the transformations don't do quite enough to change up the gameplay. 2 of the 5 transformations are just to fit into smaller spaces, 1 is just to traverse cold water, and another lets you fit into smaller spaces and also fly. Only the alligator feels fresh and new, and I wish the others were more like that.

But yes, I also feel like the fluidity of just getting everything in one go is a MASSIVE advantage BK has over SM64. Compare what someone does in Bubblegloop Swamp over Tall, Tall Mountain.

In BS, you have a tall village to scale, a concert to perform, Jinjos to collect, an evil crocodile to battle in a fruit-eating competition, some other crocodiles to feed, an egg to destroy, an army of frogs to dispatch of, and a tortoise to keep warm.

In TTM, you scale a mountain and collect a star, then it kicks you out. Then you scale the same mountain, but then a monkey is there instead, then it kicks you out again. Then you scale the same mountain, but 80% of the way up there's a slide you can go down, then it kicks you out again. Then you scale the same mountain, but there's a waterfall you can jump behind, then it kicks you out again. Then you scale the same mountain, but this time you stop 2/3 of the way up to collect some red coins on the way back down. It just feels so horrible in comparison.

I think throwing them all together isn't (fully) plausible for Mario 64 because Mario 64 isn't about wandering aimlessly to get everything. The objectives are tightly designed and you're meant to run through the course 6 times. (The 100 coin star is the only similar one to BK and those let you stay in the stage)

Underleveled posted...

His literal only complaint about it is that the notes reset each time you enter a stage and you have to collect them all in one go; otherwise he considers it a perfect game.

FWIW they fixed this in the Rare Replay version!

#4. The Legend of Zelda: Majoras Mask (2000)
Total Points: 75
List Appearances: 22
First Place Votes: 2
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/4c0a940c.jpg

Write-up provided by ctesjbuvf
This is my favorite Nintendo 64 game. Majoras Mask took a lot of chances and as a result the fanbase was more split on it than for most Zelda games. As you can tell I believe they all paid off. The setting of Termina is great, in particular Clock Town, the setting for a lot of the best stuff. The darker atmosphere is incredible, Skull Kid makes for a surprisingly good antagonist considering his role in Ocarina of Time, and Links transformations are very fun. In general, masks are an excellent addition. While some are better than others, almost all of them have some niche use somewhere, it does not feel like there are too many.

The weakest part of Majoras Mask I believe is that it comes with just four dungeons right after Ocarina of Time gave us almost twice that amount. Furthermore, one of them is not that great, this is the Great Bay Temple which also has a frustrating boss battle. Dungeons have traditionally been the best part of Zelda games so that feels like a letdown. On the plus side, Stone Tower is quite possibly the best Zelda dungeon of all time, at least they nailed that one.

However, as I mentioned first, Majoras Mask diverge from the usual formula in a bunch of ways, so it does not need great dungeons to be the best (though hilarious it still had the single best one). What makes Majoras Mask fantastic is how alive it feels. The dark atmosphere and setting combined with this makes for an experience that gaming in general is only very recently reaching good enough technology to recapture regularly. Majoras Mask achieves this by the genius idea of the 3-day system.

Im not sure if any gaming world has ever been livelier despite this game being almost 25 years old now. Because of the 3-day system, every NPC has a story. Depending on what time you go where, the setting will be different, since the game is alive regardless of your actions. The dark atmosphere I mentioned makes this even stronger. You can spend a few days to save the Gorons from winter, stop an alien invasion from stealing farm animals, save an old lady from getting robbed, prevent forest pollution etc. However, as you must go back in time to prevent the moon from crashing down into termina, you also undo all those good deeds. Then on the next cycle as you are working on something else, you must live with knowing that those things you prevented are now happening. As you help people in one area, people are suffering in another. This is such a clever way to make the player feel and I cant stress enough how incredibly impressive that felt in the year 2000. What the game might lack in main story content, it makes up for so many times in its side content.

Clock Tower is the center of all the chaos and is also the place where all these great concepts are strongest. The soundtrack here is also great and speeds up and gets darker undertones and sounds each day as the world is slowly falling apart around you. I believe its no coincidence that the best side quest, the Anju and Kafki one, takes place here. I almost save that one for last because its the best and fortunately you can do it right before the final boss without truly missing out on anything. The scene where they sit together right before the end of day 3 and accept their terrible fate, as Skull Kid would put it, is the moment where everything this game does such a fantastic job as comes together the most. Their story probably exceeds any other story a Zelda game has told.

As I wrote this, I got an urge to play the game again, then you know its something special. I believe that all these things are still incredibly impressive and impactful in 2024. There really is no other game quite like the absolute masterpiece that is Majoras Mask.

It's gonna be OoT > SM64 > PM I think.

#3. Paper Mario (2000)
Total Points: 78
List Appearances: 29
First Place Votes: 4
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9fd7801b.jpg

Write-up provided by Bitto
As a kid, I certainly enjoyed Mario games. They were fun, the worlds were fun, and it was just a good time overall. But I don't think I truly became a major fan of Mario until I played Paper Mario. For the first time, I truly got to live in a fully-realized Mario world and I loved it. The chapters and worlds roughly break down to what you would expect from a Mario platformer game - the grass lands, the desert, a spooky world, etc. And it really does every chapter justice. There's no world that really feels like a lull in this game, with each chapter providing a unique, Mario-like vibe. Even after 5+ Mario RPGs, this one feels the most like THE Mario RPG. The worlds, the enemies, the allies, the quests, the music...really, everything just feels Mario in this game.

I always gravitated towards RPGs, not just for the vibes but for the gameplay. I played this as a kid, so the system just worked out perfectly for me. The numbers are all small-scale with something dealing 10 damage being a pretty big deal. Nothing felt like a "wasted action" and the Badge system is a great way to play around with customization. I didn't really explore the battle system in great detail, but I've heard there are well-regarded difficulty hacks centering around Paper Mario. Bug Fables is also a recent game clearly inspired by Paper Mario that plays around with difficulty too.

I have to give special props to the OST, which is up there for one of my favorite OSTs. I always enjoyed the upbeat and whimsical Mario sound, but I especially like how each sound corresponds to each world and each boss having their own battle theme. Most OSTs tend to have a few lull areas, but I never got that sense from Paper Mario's OST. It also does a great job of bringing my mind back to memories of each area and...well, those 2 hours always go by real fast when listening to it for work, driving, or general vibing.

There's so many other things I can go on about this game. Tattle cemented my love for optional writing, especially in-game based ones. Toad Town is a fun hub and I especially like how the melody changes based on what you're near to reflect leitmotifs. The game's humor works really well and, if I recall, tends to be a bit low-key compared to other Mario RPGs. All the references to Yoshi's Island in Chapter 5 are really nice. The game just makes me happy to play and it truly did a lot to shape the rest of my life.

Write-up provided by MrSmartGuy
Paper Mario was the third RPG I ever played. The first was Pokemon Red, which was basically created to be babbys first RPG. The second was Quest 64, and that game sucks ass. But that kinda sets the stage for what my expectations for an RPG were. Thankfully, I was met with a delightful game just oozing with charm that was perfect for an RPG noob like me. The battle system is incredibly simple, but the badge and partner systems allow for just enough customization options and variety to still make every battle interesting. The story is also simple, but each chapter on its own is still creative and pleasant enough to keep the player engaged throughout. It all blends into a perfect RPG starting point for a fledgling RPG enjoyer like I was, but still nuanced enough to keep even veterans entertained.

Lately, I've delved into the world of game randomizers, and Paper Mario has become my favorite randomized game of all-time. Every run feels totally different. The partner you get at the start can be completely random, and it changes the outlook of every game. You can set badges to have random BP requirements, so you have to be flexible in your gameplan every run.

There's a designated setting called Blitz that I've been absolutely hooked on lately, where you only have to save 4 of the game's 7 Star Spirits, and it forces all progression items into those 4 chapters, so it smooths everything along. That way the run doesn't overstay its welcome. They can actually be done in well under 2 hours.

If you think this kind of thing sounds neat to you, check it out here:
https://pm64randomizer.com/

Write-up provided by NBIceman
It's unfortunate that the lesson Nintendo eventually took from this game is that players wanted... Paper puns, and plots that revolve around paper. Luckily we at least got TTYD before they committed wholeheartedly to that philosophy.

Anyway, take away some context and the original Paper Mario starts to look like a surprisingly paint-by-numbers affair, especially during a time when other games in the genre were beginning to really flex their storytelling muscles and deliver narratives that people still regard as masterful today. "Travel to a bunch of loosely connected locales, maybe including a desert and a snowy place and a fiery place and so on, to collect some MacGuffins in order to defeat an evil villain" was a formula had been done plenty by both RPGs and by Mario by the time the N64 came onto the scene, so a rehash needed to come with a bit of a format shakeup to retain any feeling of newness.

Enter Paper Mario's storybook fairy tale presentation, a genius idea that has allowed the game to remain timeless in its perfect combination of familiarity and novelty. You've seen everything it has to offer a dozen times before, but you've never seen it *like this.* Like, it seems reductive to boil it all down to "Well, it's an RPG with Mario, except... everything's paper," but that's exactly the charm. You don't have to take anything too seriously, the plot and combat don't need to be at all complex, the puzzles don't need to be brain burners. This is a comfort game. Grab your favorite snack, throw a blanket in the drier for ten minutes until it's nice and warm, cozy up on the couch, scratch your pet in their favorite spot, and go hit some Shy Guys with a hammer. Relax and enjoy.

None of this is to say that the presentation is just a mask for mediocrity and laziness, of course - far from it. The writing, for example, is fantastic for what it is, notable for crafting my favorite incarnation of Bowser across the entire franchise. He retains his silliness and is far from an evil mastermind, but he still comes off as a legitimate menacing threat for most of the game, bolstered by a memorable cast of underlings that are varying degrees of inept compared to him. Some of the level designs are incredible as well, with Chapters 3 and 7 being some of the best and most creative sections of any Mario game.

It's amazing how unique a familiar tale can feel when it's simply told in a different way. I understand why TTYD came to be considered the peak of Mario RPGs for many, and SMRPG still has its ardent supporters, but the N64 entry is forever going to be the one I'm most likely to pluck off my shelf on a random day if I'm in the mood for something I've already played a dozen times, because I still never get tired of seeing it all unfold.

... Wait, damn it, that was a paper pun, now I'm doing it too aaaaaaaaaargh

<Insert my usual gripes against Majora's Mask. I'll spare you the details.>

#2. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)
Total Points: 87
List Appearances: 27
First Place Votes: 4
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/728f024c.jpg

Write-up provided by tazzyboyishere
What is there to say about Ocarina of Time? What is there to say about a game which has been lauded as the greatest ever made? What is there to say about a game which, 26 years ago, was given near-perfect reception to the point of still holding that record today? What is there to say about a video game which is still used as a blueprint in 3D level design to this day? Ocarina of Time is one of the grandest adventures someone can have while sitting at home. It evokes the works of Tolkien, in all their whimsy and majesty, while directly pulling from scattered pieces of lore established in prior games, to devise the most imaginative action-adventure game of its era. If I stopped here, there wouldnt, or at least shouldnt, be any disagreement. OoT has the coveted position of all these statements being true. So much so that we all had to survive mid-2010s discourse surrounding this game, where the primary criticism was Hey, this game had some flaws and didnt age the best. Like, can you imagine having such a legacy where the greatest challenge you ever receive is an Egoraptor video?

As much as I hate that video, I mainly bring it up to note the continued effort to analyze this game over multiple generations. A game being given the right to be viewed dependent of the era it was made in is such a rare happening. I cant help but feel this video sparked new discussion around the game, at least in the online spaces I found myself in, and that included both positive and negative critique. Regardless, the game was being talked about as if it just came out, and a lot of the biggest flaws being pointed out were either hyperbole or a condemnation of some technical oversights, the latter of which is absolutely fair game in some case (there is no defending the iron boots, for example). It should be an easy slam dunk to criticize a Nintendo 64 game when removed from that circumstance. It is a singleplayer game from the middle of one of the most dated eras of gaming on a relatively obtuse platform seemingly built around multiplayer experiences. Ocarina of Time is anything but. It excels so much in recognizing its identity and exercising its goals, that the process of pointing to flaws is inevitably going to require a lot of vibes-based animosity and probably an occasional bad-faith take.

As for the game itself: I dont really have an answer to the questions posed earlier. Its one of my favorite games ever, and its been like that for most of my life. In a video on the Gorillaz by YouTuber Lady Emily, she states something to the effect of not being able to say anything of substance about Demon Days, as it feels impossible to review something which has just always been a big part of her life and how she connects with music on the whole. I would say I parallel this thought with OoT, so instead heres some scattered thoughts on each dungeon, the BEST part of literally every good Zelda game, iykyk.

Inside the Great Deku Tree
Legendary on the first playthrough, but not all that exciting all things considered. Its designed to tutorialize combat and give you a feel for how to think about and manage 3D space, and it excels in that, but its a little boring outside of that. Jumping onto the spiderweb is a cool cinematic event that really wouldnt work on older hardware. Gohma is a cool boss, but like most of the 3D bosses we know now, these are puzzles first and battles second. Sometimes the puzzles are really good, but here its just using the buttons youre told to use.

Dodongos Cavern
Easily the best of the three pre-timeskip dungeons. Its a bit more combat-focused, and it ups the ante in terms of exploration and puzzle-solving. I felt so smart solving the part where you put bombs in the eyes even though it isnt that hard of a puzzle. Dodongo himself is a cool fight. Very cinematic and has one of the most hilarious deaths ever, RIP.

Inside Jabu-Jabus Belly
A bit over-hated, but still arguably the weakest dungeon in the game. I personally like it better than one dungeon but Ill get to that later. It can be pretty disorienting, but I always think thats really cool. Sometimes the best puzzles are just figuring out how the spaces interweave, which is probably why I love Metroidvanias so much. It would be a great dungeon if thats all it was, but youre shackled with having to escort a character the entire time, and it suuuuucks. Like, it kills an otherwise neat level for me. Barinade is a pretty weak boss too. You just kinda spam the boomerang. I had to look up its name while writing this, which I dont think Ill have to do again, because this one is so forgettable in an otherwise iconic set of boss fights (whether they are all that great isnt guaranteed, mind you).

Forest Temple
The first of the post-timeskip dungeons and probably the best dungeon in the game, depending on how much you hate the iron boots. The ghost theme is really cool, and the backing music is my favorite in the game. Zelda games almost universally get better once you have the bow, and that feeling is doubled in the 3D games. The bow is so fun to use here, and they give you a lot of cool puzzles and combat sequences to use it with. Phantom Ganon is one of the better fights in the game, using 3D movement and cinematic boss designs to present one of the most impressive fights of that era. It still feels a bit surreal to play it to this day, even though its concept was a bit derivative already, and has been derived so much since. Theres something to be said about the importance of mood, atmosphere, and set design all playing a role in many of OoTs best moments.

Fire Temple
A bit weak coming off of Forest Temple, but a high-quality romp nonetheless. Kakariko hadnt really changed much, with the return back being more focused on how you were truly an outsider and how this pocket of the world remained pure in spite of the Hell which Castle Town became. Goron City was much less lucky, however. Its essentially abandoned outside of one child, so it truly does carry that same vibe of desolation you got from stepping into Castle Town. But theres this cool theme of rescue at play, where you actually get to free the Gorons who have been imprisoned, and they return to the city after. You were too late to stop the no doubt countless lives lost during Ganondorfs ascension to power, but there are still parts of the world which you can help heal. To be able to mix such a cool theme with some fun puzzles and excellent exploration is a skill not many games can achieve. Volvagia is a fine boss. No real thoughts on it, to be honest.

Water Temple
I think its my favorite one, at least in OoT 3D, which is how Ive been playing this game for the last 12-13 years. Its achieved this legacy of being so confusing and convoluted, but shit, I beat it when I was a kid, so its probably not actually too bad. The remake did put in some features to make the feeling of traversal less tedious and more streamlined, so maybe this is me talking about something from the position of a coddled modern gamer rather than the eldritch beings who played video games made before 2001. Regardless, the puzzle box structure of 3D Zelda reached an apex here. There are a number of games which would surpass it, sure, but in 1998, no singular video game level was this fucking cool. The way how all the rooms function as a unit and how you slowly unravel the winding hallways while making incremental progress until you get to that iconic scene of the endless lake with a small island and tree in the middle? Wowza. Its a bit more linear after that moment. Morpha is fine. Probably my least favorite of the games bosses if only because it feels a bit rough to play. I kinda wish he was the miniboss instead of Dark Link, which is probably the coolest fight in the game, again, much due to the atmosphere and mood.

Shadow Temple
My least favorite dungeon. Its super linear and super big, and a lot of the atmosphere it relies upon was done way better in the Bottom of the Well. The ship setpiece is really fucking cool though, and Bongo Bongo is one of the best bosses in the game, but I dont care for the rest of the place.

Spirit Temple
A highly ambitious, multi-part dungeon meant to turn the story mechanic of multiple eras into a gameplay mechanic. It mostly does a great job, though Ive never been big on the aesthetics here, which I think hurts it the most for me. Like I said earlier, some criticisms are just naturally going to be vibes-based, and this is where I stand there. It does have some great puzzles regardless, and it introduces the Darknut, which is almost always the most fun type of enemy to fight in the 3D games. Twinrova is a really cool fight as well. With the Mirror Shield being somewhat underutilized overall, its nice that it has this awesome fight built around it.

Inside Ganons Castle
A bland final level (A common trend in the 3D games, unfortunately), but it works fine. They added a new dungeon item here which is purely cinematic, and I kinda get the desire to keep that going, but so much of this dungeon is just reiterating what the previous dungeons did, just without the puzzle box structure that made them so memorable. The final fights with Ganon are so cool though. The one problem OoT 3D has, at least in my eyes, is a lot of atmosphere being lost in that last battle due to lighting. Regardless, it is the culmination of every theme the game explores. The theme of good vs. evil. The theme of growth, both physical and emotional. The theme of cinematic encounter design deserving just as much respect as the actual inputs you will put into the controller. It is the perfect way to end a work which is simultaneously one of the most important works of fiction ever devised, and one of the most individually meaningful things I have spent the gift of life with by writing about, thinking about, and, of course, playing and replaying and replaying and replaying. It is, with not even the slightest hyperbole, a masterpiece.

I guess I should play Paper Mario sometime.

the good guys win

tazzyboyishere posted...

... Wait, damn it, that was a paper pun, now I'm doing it too aaaaaaaaaargh

The paper puns are the best part of the later Paper Mario games though as they indeee removed mostly everything else that worked.

I can't believe Donkey Kong 64 won!

#1. Super Mario 64 (1996)
Total Points: 100
List Appearances: 33
First Place Votes: 7
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3a2063e7.jpg

Write-up provided by tazzyboyishere
It feels weird writing about this right after OoT because, in a lot of ways, what I said there applies here. So is it redundant to state that Nintendo put out one of the best games ever made with this one? Is it redundant to say it revolutionized the 3D platformer, 3D gaming, and video gaming in general? Is it redundant to say modern critique of this game is usually confounded with hyperbole or vibes-based takes? I dunno, I guess you can decide that.

Regardless of how you feel about any one of the two individually, this was Nintendo performing at one of their many peaks. Nobody was able to transition from 2D to 3D as easily as they could, and a lot of that comes from the design philosophies they pushed in Super Mario 64. The greatest problem 3D gaming presented was always going to be how one makes something move on the z-axis. Early 3D games are quite rough for this reason. Theres much more nuance to understanding physics such as weight and momentum. Much more nuance to recognizing the surrounding environment and how it inadvertently changes how a player interacts with the world. And much more nuance to recognizing how these differences can be utilized to make something unlike anything this young medium would have seen a year ago. Nintendo had some experience with 3D, like Star Fox, but that was all on-rails. Play something like Cybermorph for more than 10 minutes without having a panic attack, I dare you.

Super Mario 64 is where a lot of people just kinda pretend 3D gaming started. Like Super Mario Bros. did in 1985, Super Mario 64 blew everything that came before it out of the water. Mario controls smooth as butter, has a variety of maneuvers he can pull off through a simple set of button combinations based on his current momentum, and has an absolutely iconic voice to more easily convey successful and failed maneuvers. Moving Mario is never a problem because everything you do is so deliberate. Like, it never feels off when you make a mistake, because its so consistent and tight in its design. I think a lot of people who play this for the first time now, or return to it after years and dont really like it, usually get turned off by the camera (which I also theorize is what people sometimes mean when they actually do complain about the controls). The camera is a bit rough, but Ive recently played Mega Man Legends and Im sorry, but Super Mario 64 may have just been the best we could have hoped for at the time.

I do think it has a few problems, namely having to exit the level after collecting most of the stars, and the 100-coin star ruining the pacing of almost every level (It helps ease the frustration knowing your reward for 100% kinda blows). But those are quite minor in comparison to what the game does well. My favorite levels are Tall, Tall Mountain and Tick-Tock Clock, though Im not sure I actively dislike any of the levels. I even like Dire, Dire Docks to some extent. This game is timeless though, and still a blast to run through today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3_lVSrPB6w

I mean that's as good as I could have hoped for since I at least voted it. And although it's not even quite in my top 10 for the console it's a very worthy winner.

Hard to argue against it being the top spot here yeah.

Ocarina of Time should be #1 of all game lists but super mario 64 is a respectable winner

Fun list. Glad I got to talk about OoT, but SM64 was a bit tricky coming off of that, despite being the winner, so hopefully I gave adequate praise. As always, thanks for everyone who voted, and extra thanks to the writing crew, who put in some absolutely banger work. I'll put the PlayStation topic up tomorrow, and since it looks like we'll also be doing 90s PC, that will come before another break. Hope to see everyone there! Until then, I'm gonna try getting writeups migrated to their own documents, as well as getting the total N64 list up in the spreadsheet.

Thanks as always!!

andylt posted...

I can't believe Donkey Kong 64 won!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0XxA1ms_II

tazzyboyishere posted...

Like, can you imagine having such a legacy where the greatest challenge you ever receive is an Egoraptor video?

As much as I hate that video

You seem really bothered by some dude I've never heard of.

Just watched the video, and he has some valid points. Some. Keese suck. Z-targeting is awkward. The game does indeed have a lot of unnecessary breaks in the action.

Correct winner again, we're on a roll!

Mario 64 is possibly the greatest single-player game ever. Incredible that Nintendo nailed the 3D platformer on the first try. It's by far the game I've beaten the most times - likely over 1,000 by now (16-star runs are way fun).

tazzyboyishere posted...

I think a lot of people who play this for the first time now, or return to it after years and dont really like it, usually get turned off by the camera (which I also theorize is what people sometimes mean when they actually do complain about the controls).

I've got what looks like 338 hours logged in SM64 rando and I can assure you that the controls have their issues unique from the camera. That said, they're not really enough to make a considerable difference to the enjoyment of the game.

https://youtu.be/JUxJvDDFBn8?si=o4Aak9KJs2AZqrEY

Correct winner! A+++++ would N64 again.

Kinda sad a lot of my other favorites didnt make it like Pilotwings, Wave Race, and Cruisin USA, but such is life. Goldeneye and Perfect Dark both ranked high was wonderful.