Current Events > A doctor who drove his family off a cliff will get charged dropped

(+) Yeah! (+)

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

So if someone commits a crime when they are mentally ill, they should be imprisoned later if their mental illness doesn't go away?

Effectively, get better or else?

That kind of misses the whole point as to why the mentally ill should be treated differently by the justice system.

No matter what kind of help this guy gets in the back of his families mind theyll be wondering if hes going to try again until he dies

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A secure hospital where they can continue to be treated would be one thing.

But saying to a mentally ill person, you have two years to get better, or you are going to prison? Quite another.

You've gone from advocating treatment and understanding to joining the CE lock 'em up mob.

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If they do that, theyre not driving the car. Does that make sense?

ai123 posted...

I think she is in a better position to make that call than I am.

Actually with her having an emotional connection and being too close to the situation, she might have the worst perspective than anybody. And of course it was a suicide attempt. People just don't drive off cliffs with their family in the car for shits and giggles. And if it was a pure accident, he wouldn't have to go through the program in the first case. I mean hell, his wife even talks about his mental breakdown.

Sunburst posted...

I think it was fair. I know someone who attempted suicide with a passenger by crashing their car on purpose. Both survived. Passenger had minor injuries. Driver had serious injuries. They weren't trying to kill passenger. They just happened to be in car. Attempted murder wouldn't be appropriate charge.

Yea but in this case it doesn't sound like thats what happened.

Like if the dude was suicidal and tried to kill himself but his mind just completely blanked and forgot his family was in the car because he was in a manic state, then fine.

But it sounds like this guy was having paranoid delusions about his children being kidnapped and sex trafficked and that he actually wanted to kill them. There have been multiple family killings like this relating to people falling down the Qanon rabbit hole.

Public: "We need to send less people to prison! Rehabilitation over punishment!"

Judge: "OK, cool. Here is someone with a mental illness that we can try to rehabilitate..."

Public: "Not THIS one!!!"

Sandalorn posted...

It's best just to let it go with him. He's one of the worst bad faith posters on the board. You completely showed his hypocrisy and misrepresentation of what you said and all he could come back with is the #1 troll response "Meltdown!".

Better usage of time than trying to pound the square peg into a round hole. It's futile with him. He become a champion and defender of someone that tried to murder his wife and FUCKIN CHILDREN. He's too far gone.

Oh, I already did. I think we're entitled to having what ever experience we want to have and not required suffer the existence of bad faith agitators, trolls, and shitposters.

As you saw, I gave him 3 chances to explain how he was lying and misrepresenting my post and the latter 2 he just quoted himself laughing and accusing me of melting down.

It's a shame because he's normally pretty solid on politics and I like his music takes, however enough gets to be enough.

Dikitain posted...

Public: "We need to send less people to prison! Rehabilitation over punishment!"

Judge: "OK, cool. Here is someone with a mental illness that we can try to rehabilitate..."

Public: "Not THIS one!!!"

...probably because the people saying the first thing are thinking about drug users or minor offenders, not attempted murder?

Trumble posted...

...probably because the people saying the first thing are thinking about drug users or minor offenders, not attempted murder?

Thats their fault for not thinking of the full scope of what they say

Rehabilitation for all criminals needs to at least be attempted

PissedOffMonk posted...

You did that on your first post.

Yeah, they're also willfully ignoring the "he's being vilified just because he attempted to perform suicide" comment.

Shadow_Don posted...

Yea but in this case it doesn't sound like thats what happened.

Like if the dude was suicidal and tried to kill himself but his mind just completely blanked and forgot his family was in the car because he was in a manic state, then fine.

But it sounds like this guy was having paranoid delusions about his children being kidnapped and sex trafficked and that he actually wanted to kill them. There have been multiple family killings like this relating to people falling down the Qanon rabbit hole.

I didn't read the article. If he thought his family was going to be sex trafficked then that is bizarre. I was picturing a situation similar to what my relative went thru. It happened many years ago and they weren't a threat to society or the injured passenger. They just needed help with depression and mental illness. I don't think people should be quick to judge.

Has there been any reporting on what the wife and children think? They might love their husband and father and don't want him in prison.

AnsestralRecall posted...

Thats their fault for not thinking of the full scope of what they say

Rehabilitation for all criminals needs to at least be attempted

I support rehabilitation but this all or nothing approach is dumb both politically and in terms of the chance of successful rehabilitation. For severe enough crimes with no extenuating factors there's no reason to offer rehabilitation especially rehabilitation that allows them to continue living in society and be able to commit a nother similar or worse crime. Even the most liberal nations in the world aren't rehabilitating mass murderers.

Sunburst posted...

Has there been any reporting on what the wife and children think? They might love their husband and father and don't want him in prison.

Yes. Wife doesn't want him in prison.

Which is understandable and obviously we aren't as proximate to the situation as the family, the lawyers, and the judge, but we should keep in mind that victims of criminal domestic situations often side with the perpetrator.

ai123 posted...

I think she is in a better position to make that call than I am.

Nah I think if your dad tries to kill you, it's probably better to not have him around

Do you think people at DCF just sit there and are like, meh there's abuse happening but they know better than me, good luck kiddos

You're missing the importance by trying to be too empathic

ItsNotA2Mer posted...

And I'm balking at the idea that some people think we should completely ignore the fact that he involved his wife and children in the suicide attempt.

Thats literally the point I was making.

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/whoosh. You have to really try to miss the point this badly.

JJH777 posted...

I support rehabilitation but this all or nothing approach is dumb both politically and in terms of the chance of successful rehabilitation. For severe enough crimes with no extenuating factors there's no reason to offer rehabilitation especially rehabilitation that allows them to continue living in society and be able to commit a nother similar or worse crime. Even the most liberal nations in the world aren't rehabilitating mass murderers.

The point of the justice system should be two fold - ensure victims are appropriately taken care of and to remove the dangerous person from society.

Rehabilitation can be a life long process. You don't leave until you can confidently be judged by psychiatric professionals that you are no longer a risk to be allowed into society.

JJH777 posted...

I support rehabilitation but this all or nothing approach is dumb both politically and in terms of the chance of successful rehabilitation. For severe enough crimes with no extenuating factors there's no reason to offer rehabilitation especially rehabilitation that allows them to continue living in society and be able to commit a nother similar or worse crime. Even the most liberal nations in the world aren't rehabilitating mass murderers.

This. Not to mention that punishment is not the sole purpose of imprisonment; it's also about keeping dangerous people away from potential victims.

I'm not saying lock him up and throw away the key. But I sure as shit am saying lock him up, not necessarily in a harsh environment but still one where he is away from society (at least physically), until he's treated and rehabilitated.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Depression isn't itself a mental illness at all.

ModernPost posted...

Depression isn't itself a mental illness at all.

Clinical depression is.

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Are we assuming the kids arent traumatized for life that their dad tried to kill them?

Im sorry, I think I meant to say their dad tried committing suicide. In front of them. While driving them off a cliff!!

Sunburst posted...

Clinical depression is.

we're all depressed at some times in our lives. only the good times will roll.

just spiraling for everyone else.

ModernPost posted...

Depression isn't itself a mental illness at all.

so what is it, in your medical opinion?

kingdrake2 posted...

we're all depressed at some times in our lives. only the good times will roll.

just spiraling for everyone else.

This is very much not the way you want to approach this.

kingdrake2 posted...

we're all depressed at some times in our lives. only the good times will roll.

just spiraling for everyone else.

There's that. And then there's clinical depression which actually results from an imbalance in the body's chemistry and is not just a result of "bad times". The latter is most certianly a mental illness.

kingdrake2 posted...

we're all depressed at some times in our lives.

most people actually aren't

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Expect he tried to kill his family with his self.

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Getting justice will help with that trauma .

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Are you suggesting justice doesn't help crime victims ? IT doesn't fix everything but it helps.

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inadvertently ... nothing about driving your car off a cliff was inadvertent.

thronedfire2 posted...

so what is it, in your medical opinion?

Its simply a mental state. It can be caused by an illness, but feeling depressed is a normal state of being in many cases.

Dont be snarky with me if youre going to get the basics wrong.

ai123 posted...

So if someone commits a crime when they are mentally ill, they should be imprisoned later if their mental illness doesn't go away?

if the medical professionals say they're a danger to themselves and others, then yes.

If all you want to do is kill yourself there are far more efficient ways than driving a car with your family in it off a cliff. This is like claiming that every mass shooter was just suicidal since often they commit suicide after doing it.

Monopoman posted...

If all you want to do is kill yourself there are far more efficient ways than driving a car with your family in it off a cliff.

You're assuming a desperately mentally ill person is going to be rational.

Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...

You're assuming a desperately mentally ill person is going to be rational.

Typically suicide is something built up over time it's not like a suicidal guy while driving down the road just decides yep time to drive the car off a cliff. 100's commit suicide every year and many do it without harming a single other person, already a person like this should have sympathy for leaving his family in most cases.