Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 414: 131 Days To Go

(+) Yeah! (+)

Thorn posted...

As for "what is an official act" they don't really say - beyond explicitly saying his trying to coerce the DOJ to lie about election fraud is totally official and totally immune. They notably never examine and state an example of something that is not official/immune.

Basically any power the President is given.

Commander-in-chief powers (regardless of what he orders them to do), talking to his cabinet (regardless of what he is demanding they do), "using the bully pulpit"/whatever he says publicly regardless of what that is, etc.

https://twitter.com/cafedujord/status/1807809447643021762

Honestly, the best solution I've come up with so far is for Biden to say "we're voting on a constitutional amendment tomorrow. The amendment will say that presidents aren't above the law. And if this amendment fails, I will order Seal Team 6 to assassinate everyone who voted against it."

metroidcomposite posted...

Honestly, the best solution I've come up with so far is for Biden to say "we're voting on a constitutional amendment tomorrow. The amendment will say that presidents aren't above the law. And if this amendment fails, I will order Seal Team 6 to assassinate everyone who voted against it."

Love this no notes

metroidcomposite posted...

https://twitter.com/cafedujord/status/1807809447643021762

big mood. i made almost that exact meme like a year ago:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3d9a47b4.jpg

https://bsky.app/profile/mmasnick.bsky.social/post/3kwbm6ujm3b26

"I see some good ideas being suggested, but here's my entry: he can now *commercially* pirate music, since to really be criminal rather than civil, needs to be commercial. So he could set up the White House's official pirate streaming service. And no one could do anything."

Its basically impossible to read political Twitter right now, a certain group of people have decided that this is all Bernie supporters fault lol.

Apparently Trump is now arguing his criminal conviction in New York should be overturned because documents from his administration were admitted into evidence. Dunno how that works, so the best conclusion I can make is that the Supreme Court is deliberately playing both sides. Actually as far as I can tell this court ruling would make little differences in most instances - meaning it's plainly obviously meant to protect Trump and his supporters are not helping their case.

FFDragon posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/270125a3.jpg

Yeah I was worried about this. Then again Nixon resigned and never returned to politics so whatever I guess?

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

political Twitter

Why subject yourself to this

v_charon posted...

Why subject yourself to this

Im actually addicted.

Also I like sending memes to my wife who pays zero attention to politics and seeing her reaction, lol.

Content Warning (the article has one too): Disturbing photo

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/robert-kennedy-jr-shocking-history

So, apparently among other things, there's a photo of RFK Jr. eating ... a dog.

UltimaterializerX posted...

It sort of is, but not for the reason they think.

If the DNC puts their full weight behind him, we get 8 years of Bernie. Thats a fact. This whole nonsense about how he cant win a general election is bunk.

*deep sigh* Genuinely...what makes you believe this is true? What evidence and actions in the past eight years have indicated to you that the American people would have overwhelmingly voted for Bernie if only the evil DNC wasn't weighing them down?

what is with this election cycle and dogs

even hitler managed to be cool with dogs

Hot take:

Elon breaking twitter such that you can't view replies unless you're logged in is good, actually. The only problem is that it means you can't view threads without being logged in.

Inviso posted...

*deep sigh* Genuinely...what makes you believe this is true? What evidence and actions in the past eight years have indicated to you that the American people would have overwhelmingly voted for Bernie if only the evil DNC wasn't weighing them down?

As a non-american I think he would have beat Trump in '16 but not in ' 20, unless he won in '16

You have the blue no matter who votes, he would've been less divisive for fence sitters because he wasn't a woman(because let's be real anyone sitting on the fence even with Republicans in '16 were still doing so for racist/misogynistic reasons), he'd be able to articulate policies/reasons why he is a better candidate during debates/interviews than Hildog, he'd have actually really energized the youth vote to go out and vote, he could have shown he was truly a politician of the people similar to the way drumpf did, but as a good guy.

Reg posted...

Hot take:

Elon breaking twitter such that you can't view replies unless you're logged in is good, actually. The only problem is that it means you can't view threads without being logged in.

Yeah, good change. Keeps me from doomscrolling since the login is enough of a deterrent

I agree with that hot take

Only today did I realise how priceless it is for Trump and his supporters to complain about a witch hunt against him after all the scandals Hillary Clinton kept getting cleared of. Never mind that they already came off like a crime mob.

logged-out twitter is completely useless for my purposes (keeping tabs on announcements from people who refuse to move)

The fact Twitter somehow isnt dead yet is surprising given Musks efforts to kill it

UltimaterializerX posted...

Im very very good at reading who will win general elections. Its a dumb hobby of mine and I havent been wrong yet. I told you Trump was winning 2016 and losing 2020. Check the tape.

The easy answer is anyone thats actually able to get young people voting (JFK, Obama, Bernie would have been on that list) smashes general elections. Its why I think AOC has a decent shot at being president one day.

I can understand this mindset from November of 2016 to around May of 2020. It was a period of time with minimal data points, and its very easy to come to the conclusion that Hillary was uniquely terrible and anyone else couldve beaten Trump, who himself is the second-worst candidate ever put forth. But then 2020 happened, and politics that year kinda destroyed that argument in my opinion.

First we have the Democratic Primary. On paper, this is Bernies to lose. He is one of only two candidates with a really high national profile, largely bolstered by his continued presence from 2016. And in a massive field, he stands out as one of only two candidates pushing progressive policies compared to the sea of moderate/centrist candidates competing against him. He also has a good told you so argument after the results of 2016. And in the middle of the chaos and economic strife of the COVID pandemic, his progressive message should have resonated with the populous.

But what happened? We got to the Iowa caucus and the New Hampshire primary, and despite every factor working in Bernies favor (including his biggest rival, Joe Biden, running a terrible primary campaign), Bernie struggled to beat PETE BUTTIGIEG. Pete Buttigieg, a candidate who, lets be honest, stood no chance in the general election due to a complete inability to draw black voters to his campaign. And then South Carolina happened, Biden dominated, and he went on to godstomp Bernie despite not even bothering to campaign in some of the states he won. Again, this was the ideal political climate for Bernie to succeed, and yet young voters either didnt bother turning out, or they did turn out, and their votes were cancelled out by a majority of Democratic voters being older moderates and centrists who DONT want Bernie or (big air quotes) far left extremism.

And thats just the primary. The second data point is the general election. 2016, Trump was an unknown, and people could project a lot of different ideals onto him compared to Hillary. But, 2020we had four years of him being a complete shitshow, and almost the entire election year presiding over the COVID disaster. And yet, in raw numbers, he gained twelve million votes. Donald Trump, in his first reelection bid, garnered the second highest popular vote count in American history. And this wasnt like Hillary, where I can at least understand a subset of the voter base hating her and not wanting her to be president; who in 2020 had Hillary-levels of hatred towards a milquetoast, inoffensive candidate like Joe Biden?

This leads to the dreaded thought that has been clinging to my brain since November of 2020: maybe Trump really isnt a weak candidate? Maybe the American people would rather vote for an incompetent, racist lunatic conservativeover any liberal.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

As a non-american I think he would have beat Trump in '16 but not in ' 20, unless he won in '16

You have the blue no matter who votes, he would've been less divisive for fence sitters because he wasn't a woman(because let's be real anyone sitting on the fence even with Republicans in '16 were still doing so for racist/misogynistic reasons), he'd be able to articulate policies/reasons why he is a better candidate during debates/interviews than Hildog, he'd have actually really energized the youth vote to go out and vote, he could have shown he was truly a politician of the people similar to the way drumpf did, but as a good guy.

The major thing I have to say in response to this: for years, there has been a constant rebuttal to blame towards Bernie Bros for 2016. The argument is that more Bernie voters backed Hillary in 2016, than Hillary voters backed Obama in 2008. Im willing to just accept that argument on its face. But, Hillary lost in 2016, so therefore Bernie would have to outperform her to succeed. But extrapolating out, if Hillary lost with Bernies supporters at the level they were, Bernie would effectively need Hillary supporters to NOT behave the same way they did in 2008, refusing to vote for him the way they did with Obama.

Also apparently Trump jumped three points ahead of Biden in the polls, though maybe I shouldve expected that given Republicans are far more confident in their candidate than Democrats. Uh oh?

Wasn't the hush money thing pre-presidency? Why would they delay the sentencing based on the immunity ruling of the supreme court? Wasn't he a civilian at that time?

Obellisk posted...

Wasn't the hush money thing pre-presidency? Why would they delay the sentencing based on the immunity ruling of the supreme court? Wasn't he a civilian at that time?

While Cohen paid Daniels pre-2016 election, I think the falsification of the business records Trump was charged for (paying back Cohen) were 2017.

In no sane world could this be called an "official act" but Trump will undoubtedly try. I guess the maximum fuckery option would be if this somehow ended up before SCOTUS and they decided some of the witnesses in the case like Hope Hicks count as "discussing with his aides" is an official act or some shit. (And remember that Roberts ruled that official acts can't be entered into evidence)

So there is a cursed world in which I can see Trump appealing the matter of "is talking to Hicks, etc." an "official act?" to SCOTUS and them going "yeah lol" because they're fucking hacks and as a result the trial has to be redone because "improper evidence" was admitted into the original one as a result.

Like, SCOTUS's ruling shouldn't impact this case at all but SCOTUS is corrupt and partisan af so I don't think we can ever be sure.

Did anyone testify about any of Trump's conversation or communications after he became president? Or any evidence of such presented.

If democracy dies in America its basically gonna lead right to WW3 before long with America being the new Nazi Germany

The problem with America:

Democrats have good ideas, but are never willing to implement them.

Republicans have no good ideas, but are more than happy to force them.

Dancedreamer posted...

The problem with America:

Democrats have good ideas, but are never willing to implement them.

Republicans have no good ideas, but are more than happy to force them.

Yeah Democrats argue over everything while Republicans are more prone to acting, and then they descend into arguing and the cycle repeats.

UltimaterializerX posted...

This leads to the dreaded thought that has been clinging to my brain since November of 2020: maybe Trump really isnt a weak candidate? Maybe the American people would rather vote for an incompetent, racist lunatic conservativeover any liberal.

Look, Im thankful daily (literally) that I got out of the right wing cult. But the guy is absurdly popular with regular people and I see it everywhere. I live in NJ, a state republicans havent won since 1988, and Trump might actually win here. We know on here his popularity is because hes a con job that saw an in with Breitbart types and the rest, but still.

At some point, we need to understand Trumps ethos is the republican party now. Even after hes long out of politics. Its a very dangerous thing.

I one hundred percent agree with this, which is why I often take umbrage with the argument of "Well the GOP suck, so the Democrats must be fucking up super hard to lose to them. If Democrats just did x, y, and z, they'd win easily." It completely ignores the fact that Democrats are consistently hamstrung by a shitty, stupid fucking electorate. Dems do X and the response from the party's left wing is "It doesn't go far enough; I'm not satisfied" or "Great, but what about Y and Z? I'm not satisfied." Meanwhile, the response from the party's right wing is "This is too extreme and I don't like the direction the party is going; I'm not satisfied." And the end result is the left wing feeling disillusioned and not voting, while the right wing feels disillusioned and doesn't vote...or worse, they vote Republican because they think both sides are equally extreme and no one represents them.

I know it sucks, but I'm gonna keep beating this drum over and over again: until the Democratic electorate starts acting like the GOP electorate and consistently rewarding and empowering the party regarding of their accomplishments, Democratic politicians are going to be stuck in a position where anything they do will result in immediate blowback and electoral defeat, thus ceding power to a party that is antithetical to everything the Democratic Party stands for. Logically, if the electorate keeps rewarding the party that moves farther and farther right, while punishing the party that TRIES to move left...the lesson that's learned is that moving left is a losing strategy, and thus the Democrats move further right themselves.

Biden just needs to make it a Presidential act or whatever and launch SCOTUS and the GOP off planet in a rocket for being threats to America and potentially the world as a whole

Blaming the voters over the politicians continues to be asinine.

If not doing X causes them to lose elections, they should have done X. If doing Y causes you to lose an election, then at least you did the right thing in the time you had.

To put it another way, Democrats frequently run on positions that will make good changes, and then once they get into office they say The backlash would be too strong or We didnt get elected hard enough, and then people dont trust Dems to actually do the good things. If they changed that, then the electorate would follow suit.

often they aren't wrong about not being elected hard enough though

biden's "trifecta" was a 50-50 Senate with Manchin and Sinema. without them to actually help push things through they couldn't do much

I think Bernie beats Trump in 2016 because a lot of Trump's appeal was in being some sort of anti-corruption political outsider.

Bernie was the same thing just the Democrat version to a lot of people. When you had Hillary scam him out of his spot in the primaries it basically played into the narrative that government is teeming with corruption and empowered Trump supporters.

Bernie runs against him there's no longer an "enemy" for Trump voters to rally against and Bernie takes some of Trump's base too I bet.

Sure, but when they dont even try because the parliamentarian said no, it makes them look insanely weak.

Put a bill out for the thing everyone wants and let the GOP put their votes against it! Then you can point to a direct attempt, as well as a specific and tangible reason to say vote harder.

Trump is gonna win easily.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Sure, but when they dont even try because the parliamentarian said no, it makes them look insanely weak.

because you need manchin and sinema to vote to overrule the parliamentarian which they won't do

Corrik7 posted...

Trump is gonna win easily.

Not when Biden uses fake electors!

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Sure, but when they dont even try because the parliamentarian said no, it makes them look insanely weak.

Put a bill out for the thing everyone wants and let the GOP put their votes against it! Then you can point to a direct attempt, as well as a specific and tangible reason to say vote harder.

We can say that, but with how the stuff works it's not going to make it that far. There are a million procedural ways to kill a bill, and the GOP only needs a few safely red districts for those members to take the hit.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/trump-liz-cheney-military-tribunal/index.html

Just the new normal from the guy who looks to win. FFS fuck everyone who is willing to vote for this piece of shit.

Also wait I thought Trump falsified business documents BEFORE he was elected and he was convicted specifically because of the belief that it could have misled voters, and that only some documentary evidence of his actions is from his administration.

Also yeah this Supreme Court ruling would matter little for most Presidents. Trump...is not most Presidents.

Maybe America will get lucky and all of Trumps health issues rapidly hit him before the election. Im not convinced losing the vote a second time would even keep him from being President with the garbage SCOTUS we have now

Dancedreamer posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/trump-liz-cheney-military-tribunal/index.html

Just the new normal from the guy who looks to win. FFS fuck everyone who is willing to vote for this piece of shit.

Surely we have more than enough evidence that trump needs to be sent to guantanamo more than any other individual ever has needed to

Tony, the problem again is that Democrats DO try to push things. Biden tries to give you what you want with executive orders relieving student loan debt, the GOP-stacked courts say that's unconstitutional, and one group of voters turns around and says "Fuck Biden for not delivering on his promise." while another group of voters turns around and says "Fuck Biden for doing that in the first place."

When Democrats attempt to do ANYTHING, whether they succeed or fail, the electorate punishes them. 1/3 of the party's voters says it's not good enough, and the other 2/3 say it's too extreme; meanwhile, 40% of the overall electorate hate anything the Democrats do and will crawl across broken glass to vote for the incompetent shitshow that is the GOP (see: Boebert getting the GOP primary nomination compared to Jamaal Bowman). The end result of all of this is the Democrats taking a hit electorally for trying to accomplish anything, because the overall electorate is fucking stupid.

Just as an example, AOC has announced her intent to register articles of impeachment against the clear power hungry and corrupted Supreme Court. This will fail because Democrats do not have a majority in the house, and the end result will be the Democrats looking ineffective to the left, and looking extremist to the right. The Democratic Party is fucked because we are made up of a coalition of progressives who think everything sucks, and think the best way of fixing things is to weaken the party that nominally agrees with their beliefs in favor of strengthening the party that's trying to destroy existing progressive policies...and moderates/centrists who really only support the Democrats because they want a mature party that plays nice and isn't a bunch of raging assholes...but they really would prefer the party behaves more fiscally conservatism and lowers taxes and stops giving handouts to people who haven't earned it...which means going too far left will spook them into voting the opposition. It fucking sucks, and there needs to be a genuine realization that this is the political reality the Democratic Party faces. It's not just a matter of "the electorate wants all these amazing things, but the corporate-owned politicians won't give them to us". The electorate are self-centered assholes who are voting for the politicians they WANT representing them and playing the game the way they are.

Lopen posted...

I think Bernie beats Trump in 2016 because a lot of Trump's appeal was in being some sort of anti-corruption political outsider.

Bernie was the same thing just the Democrat version to a lot of people. When you had Hillary scam him out of his spot in the primaries it basically played into the narrative that government is teeming with corruption and empowered Trump supporters.

Bernie runs against him there's no longer an "enemy" for Trump voters to rally against and Bernie takes some of Trump's base too I bet.

Just to address this, because it has come up in the past. With Trump vs. Hillary, there was a distinct, binary choice between the two candidates: either you wanted a political outsider who would change up what seemed to be a broken system, or you were happy with the status quo, and a politician who could navigate the existing political climate. With Bernie, you have two candidates running on "bucking the system", and if people were in favor of that...I guess I just don't see how Bernie manages to be the people's champ there. He's a multi-term Washington politician, whose election would maintain the same political party that had held the presidency for the previous eight years. If you're someone who wants a change, why would you choose Bernie over someone who is a LEGITIMATE Washington outsider, AND represents the opposition party to the party people are upset with?