Board 8 > Rate the Ace Attorney case: Turnabout For Tomorrow (5-5)

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Rules:

1. Rate each case on a scale from 1 to 10 with 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest. Anything above 10 gets rounded down to a 10, and anything below a 1 gets rounded up to a 1.
2. Anything beyond one decimal point will be rounded accordingly: .04 and below will be rounded down, .05 and up will be rounded up.
3. You may grade on any criteria you like.
4. You can rate cases from previous topics if you miss a topic.

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PiEuURt1qf19VoYzcFCU1EFa8uqs2teJiVcip7JmjDw/edit?usp=sharing

Previous Results:

Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5) - 9.8 (37 votes)
Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4) - 9.7 (30 votes)
Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4) - 9.2 (32 votes)
The Inherited Turnabout (E2-3) - 8.5 (16 votes)
Turnabout Beginnings (3-4) - 8.4 (26 votes)
Rise from the Ashes (1-5) - 8.2 (28 votes)
The Stolen Turnabout (3-2) - 8.2 (24 votes)
Turnabout Samurai (1-3) - 7.4 (29 votes)
Turnabout Memories (3-1) - 7.4 (30 votes)
Turnabout Academy (5-3) - 7.3 (26 votes)
The Grand Turnabout (E2-5) - 7.3 (16 votes)
Turnabout Target (E2-1) - 7.1 (17 votes)
Turnabout Trump (4-1) - 6.9 (25 votes)
Recipe for Turnabout (3-3) - 6.6 (27 votes)
Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2) - 6.5 (25 votes)
The Monstrous Turnabout (5-2) - 6.5 (23 votes)
Turnabout Ablaze (E1-5) - 6.0 (19 votes)
The Cosmic Turnabout (5-4) - 6.0 (18 votes)
Turnabout Sisters (1-2) - 5.7 (25 votes)
Turnabout Reminiscence (E1-4) - 5.6 (22 votes)
The Imprisoned Turnabout (E2-2) - 5.3 (16 votes)
The Forgotten Turnabout (E2-4) - 5.2 (16 votes)
Turnabout Visitor (E1-1) - 5.0 (20 votes)
The First Turnabout (1-1) - 4.9 (25 votes)
The Kidnapped Turnabout (E1-3) - 4.6 (22 votes)
Turnabout Airlines (E1-2) - 4.2 (22 votes)
Turnabout Countdown (5-1) - 4.1 (24 votes)
Turnabout Corner (4-2) - 4.0 (25 votes)
Turnabout Big Top (2-3) - 3.7 (25 votes)
Turnabout Succession (4-4) - 3.5 (24 votes)
The Lost Turnabout (2-1) - 3.3 (27 votes)
Turnabout Serenade (4-3) - 2.7 (24 votes)

Notably lower vote totals for 6-4 than the rest of DD so far...maybe because people didn't know how to rate a case that isn't complete? Some people saw it as a negative, some people saw it as...maybe positive, maybe neutral. People generally liked the cast, with Cosmos being a highlight. But it's clear that the heavy hits in this case are saved for...

Summary:

With Apollo still MIA, Phoenix steps in to do what he does best: solve years-old-murders, unmask global conspiracies, and rescue his friends from kidnappers and guilty verdicts.

Main Characters: Phoenix Wright, Trucy Wright, Athena Cykes, Apollo Justice, Bobby Fulbright, Simon Blackquill, Pearl Fey, Miles Edgeworth, The Judge, The Phantom
Other Characters: Solomon Starbuck, Juniper Woods, Clay Terran, Yuri Cosmos, Ponco, Aura Blackquill, Clonco, Metis Cykes, Ted Tonate

My rating: 7/10. It's a decent finale. A clear step below the big guns, but definitely leaves on a positive note compared to other finale cases. Highlights include Edgeworth going all-out against Athena, Apollo's testimony, Blackquill's mix of Mood Matrix and testimony, and...a little bit of The Phantom. Him unmasking himself to be Starbuck is one of the most comedic moments in all of DD. And figuring out who The Phantom is was pretty interesting at first. But he's just a complete nothing of a final villain. He backs down way too easily and his whole "I don't know who I am" is a comically weak motivation for a final villain. Even with my grips against 4-4 and E1-5, I thought the final villain was at least imposing. Not really sure how to square away Fulbright either. I was hoping for more from him and...well, I'm not really happy with what I got.

9.5/10

I'll be the 5-5 stan. It's got its problems, but I feel like it gives me the fanservice moments I wanted from an epic case. Phoenix vs. Edgeworth in the ruins of the courtroom is such a great setting. It has some emotional moments, too.

Apollo's role is fairly minimal, but I really love his testimony. Blackquill's cross-examination might be the best court moment in this game. He's a super tough opponent, and the moment he finally breaks with, "Curse you, Phoenix Wright!" is a satisfying moment. It feels like he and the Phantom justified the Mood Matrix's existence.

Speaking of the Phantom, I like him. I think they didn't use him as well as they could have, but the final evidence used to take him down is really good and it's a worthwhile showdown for me.

8.8/10

Most of this case is very good, including the twist. The very ending is a bit of an anticlimax tho.

8.5/10

At my work theres something called Metis and often when I see that I think of the robot and giving mommy Metis a hug.

9/10

Okay now I get to ramble a bit about this and 5-4. The biggest problem I have with this case and the previous one is actually Aura Blackquill.

Specifically, that she's maybe the best new character to come out of Apollo Justice Trilogy. She commands every scene she's in right from her introduction. She fits the theme of the dark age of law as a person with no connection to the law completely broken by the terrible system screwing her over about as hard as possible into doing something awful out of sheer desperation to save an innocent family member, and she is the perfect villain for this chapter in the story. She even gets a fantastic Bad End, and she corrupts Apollo over to her side, which isn't even the 'bad' side, just a misguided one to show how Apollo is just as broken as she is. Aura is the standout star of Dual Destinies, not Athena, or Simon, or Phoenix.

...And then she disappears about 75% of the way through this case to make way for the real villain, the Phantom, whom...I kinda wish they had done something like introduce Fulbright's family at some point to make it cut deeper. Going from the very personal grudge of Aura to the extremely impersonal Phantom feels like a step down, and this drags down the 5-4 ending to me by making the attempts to frame Athena feel like...just doing it for the sake of doing it instead of some truly wicked plot.

Of course, despite my criticisms, that I give this case an 9/10 should say all it has to about how fantastic of a 'villain' Aura Blackquill is. She carries this case as far as the story will let her, and I hope that if the next Ace Attorney Trilogy (if it happens) has Athena in more of a leading role that we get Aura back, in all her damaged, bitter glory.

6/10

I'm, like, really in the middle on this one. On the one hand, the reveal of who the Phantom is is great. Edgeworth returning to the courtroom is great. No case with Blackquill in it is bad, once again, and Athena makes for a great defendant too.

But...... ugh, everything with the Phantom lands with such a wet thud for me. It could have been better. It still seriously bothers me that they didn't do one of two things: either 1) Fulbright IS the phantom, period, that's just who he is and he was playing a character to trick us or 2) we knew the 'real' Fulbright either but he died and got replaced. Either way we get better emotional stakes. As it is, the result is such a nothing character and I kind of hate it.

So yeah I dunno. Also there isn't really anything interesting about the murder itself kinda? It's sort of forgettable. I don't know, this one doesn't stick the landing for me, but it has high points.

I think this case is the only time in the series where the twist actually ruined the case for me, as opposed to the twist being one of the coolest parts. It turns a cool new character into a total waste of time.

And aside from that big twist, I forget almost everything about these two cases, which isn't something I can say for any other final case in the series.

7.5

Would love to see Aura back but that seems unlikely (as unlikely as anything related to AA7, which is very unlikely).

I basically agree with everybody else about the Phantom. The case does have some genuinely interesting stuff. Edgeworth is really good in this one.

3/10

I resent how anticlimactic the ending was, to the point that it's soured me on returning to newer Phoenix Wright games. I tried with SoJ, and I just couldn't muster through its first two or maybe three cases. As a PW fan who played the original trilogy and skipped Apollo Justice, PW:DD is a relatively good game that committed the ultimate sin of a weak-ass ending.

I do like some of the other things going on in this case like the courtroom ruins -- man, what a moment that was -- so it's not all bad. I just don't forgive it.

DireKrow posted...

I think this case is the only time in the series where the twist actually ruined the case for me, as opposed to the twist being one of the coolest parts. It turns a cool new character into a total waste of time.

Huh, I think this is my first time encountering someone who was a fan of Fulbright pre-Phantom.

I think he's such a nothing character without that.

8

9

HaRRicH posted...

3/10

I resent how anticlimactic the ending was, to the point that it's soured me on returning to newer Phoenix Wright games. I tried with SoJ, and I just couldn't muster through its first two or maybe three cases. As a PW fan who played the original trilogy and skipped Apollo Justice, PW:DD is a relatively good game that committed the ultimate sin of a weak-ass ending.

I do like some of the other things going on in this case like the courtroom ruins -- man, what a moment that was -- so it's not all bad. I just don't forgive it.

This is unfortunate because imo SoJ does NOT have a weak ending

7.9/10

"So I lowered my emergency ladder like the detective leading the evacuation told me to."

Paratroopa1 posted...

This is unfortunate because imo SoJ does NOT have a weak ending

technically the very end is a letdown there too but not to the extent of this case :p

7

9.3

Amazing case through and through.... until the you cross-examine the culprit. It ruined things for me the first time, but I was able to tolerate it more on a second playthrough.

8

8.5

I remember there being a point that leads up to Edgeworth appearing where it just feels like it's escalating with one thing after the other happening, and I really like it

6

5

bad anime entry gets a bad anime twist closer when it didn't even need to

7

The Cosmic Turnabout - 7.5/10. Yeah its not a full mystery but its good, and there is at least a clear end point.

Turnabout for Tomorrow - 9/10. I love this one too, it crams a lot into a case thats actually on the shorter end for a final case. It might genuinely have the most disturbing moment in the series.

9

AFAIK we've never heard anything like this, but I can't help but feel that at some point in the writing process they were just going to have Gumshoe be in the detective role. Whether it was when they came up with the Phantom or we'll after, they chickened out.

I say that because for some supposedly amazing detective Fulbright feels like someone aping a "more competent" Gumshoe most of the time. I genuinely did not understand why they gave us this character until the twist.

The only reason this caps at 9 though is it ending with him getting sniped and no one really caring about the people that did that. I considered giving it an 8.9 as a sort of symbolic gesture but it is a pretty worthy finale all in all.

according to my rankings, i have this (and 3-5) at a 9. which seems awfully high, given that i don't love these cases the way i do cases like 3-1 and e2-1 that i have ranked lower. but there's enough really good stuff packed in here that i won't change it for now!

8

Honestly? I fucking love the Phantom. Do I also wish he was better foreshadowed? Sure. Would have been cool to see the real Fulbright in flashback sequences (as it is AA tradition to have decade spanning drama) ...And speaking as someone who could be the biggest Gumshoe fan here (he's my favourite character in the whole series!) I also enjoyed his Fulbright persona, full stop. This isn't a deal breaker for my enjoyment. As not perfect he was, his final breakdown was still wicked.

I think the set up with Aura is fine, but it also seems like it didn't go anywhere. Maybe it's because "main character is a hostage" was a key plot point of the greatest case in the franchise, maybe it's because this game isn't the best at juggling character arcs, maybe it's the Phantom stealing the show, its probably the Phantom but wow, I barely felt tension from the hostage situation. I have a lot more mixed feelings with her in general, but that's probably more of a me problem if anything.

The big mystery is great. As much as I did not once worry about Trucy, I still wanted to save Simon Blackquill, and of course Athena. The realisation that Athena tried to fix her mom with a robot assembly machine is so fucking gnarly. I do still think this game is a bit bloated as far as character arcs go, and I was definitely feeling a bit more disappointed than satisfied by the ever revolving door of protagonists, but I'd much rather take disappointment from wanting more than wishing the game would end as soon as possible.

I totally forgot to mention how outstanding the Ponco testimony is. It's so unique, and it's fun trying to figure out what it saw.

9.5

Great case!

9

Leonhart4 posted...

Huh, I think this is my first time encountering someone who was a fan of Fulbright pre-Phantom.

I think he's such a nothing character without that.

I like Fulbright pre-Phantom! A lot of that was due to his theme song, but he's fine. He definitely is the flattest of the recurring characters, though.

AFAIK we've never heard anything like this, but I can't help but feel that at some point in the writing process they were just going to have Gumshoe be in the detective role. Whether it was when they came up with the Phantom or we'll after, they chickened out.

Maybe this explains why Gumshoe is so out-of-character in 4-0...!

That would really sting, though. It would definitely make the Phantom more impactful, but...I think that's too cynical for this series, especially after AJ.

5-3: 7.5/10
5-4: 5.5/10
5-5: 8/10

My feelings on DD are a bit more muted than most people here - it's very clearly a solid game, but plays things far too safe to ever really attempt anything particularly interesting.

Also, 5-4 and 5-5 should be one case. 6-5 should be two cases.

The only mistake the games make in terms of case division is separating the last two cases of GAA2. Those are blatantly the same case and provide an arbitrary distinction between the two. It also gives the player false hope that there's another case coming.

I'm fine with the rest.

Leon you took the words right out of my mouth! Yeah 5-4 is not the full story but it does have a beginning, middle, and end, same with 5-5. The last two of GAA2 is the only time the distinction feels arbitrary.

Something's wrong with Mom, so I'm taking her apart to fix her...

I'm gonna change my vote a bit. I'm bumping it up to an 8.6 instead of a 7.9.

I think my subconscious tried to remove any trace of memory of that scene of little Athena smiling. That shit was insane. Also, I forgot how amazing Apollo's testimony is at the end. So a bit of a bump up from me.

There's a reason why DD has the only M rating in the series!

That was a classic case of game has a higher age rating due to one scene along with Arkham Knight and that one Shadow Hearts game. I didnt know Ace Attorney had it in it!