Current Events > So the only knock on Biden is his age?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hypnospace posted...

This cringe deflection only serves to prove my point correctly.

What are you Dtoast's alt, fandom CEO, or something? Because I'm going to complain, you can't stop me, and you didn't prove anything.

ButteryMales posted...

What are you Dtoast's alt, fandom CEO, or something? Because I'm going to complain, you can't stop me, and you didn't prove anything.

Christ you are such a child.

Zonbei posted...

Christ you are such a child.

What's childish is wanting someone you agree with to not complain about Trump.

We should want everyone to point out the shitty things he does.

ButteryMales posted...

What's childish is wanting someone you agree with to not complain about Trump.

We should want everyone to point out the shitty things he does.

Your gimmick is transparent. Your concern trolling is basic and boring. Everyone can see what youre doing.

There is his policy.

He's a moderate, so to the far right, he is a far left extremist.

Zonbei posted...

Your gimmick is transparent. Your concern trolling is basic and boring. Everyone can see what youre doing.

I don't care about your or anyone else's opinions.

Give me a good logical reason for a person to not complain about Trump.

ButteryMales posted...

I don't care about your or anyone else's opinions.

Give me a good logical reason for a person to not complain about Trump.

Everyone should complain about Trump. That is not what youve been doing, and your attempt to pretend thats the stance anyone is taking against you is transparent.

Zonbei posted...

Everyone should complain about Trump.

We agree.

Zonbei posted...

That is not what youve been doing

People can care about more problems than one.

Zonbei posted...

and your attempt to pretend thats the stance anyone is taking against you is transparent.

Hypnospace posted...

You can't complain about an election result you did nothing to prevent.

Thanks for believing I'm trying to get Biden to win by ending the genocide now.

Hypnospace posted...

I can't tell if you're trolling or if you genuinely don't understand that you're being told that it's stupid to complain about an election result when you literally don't vote and don't make an effort to prevent said result.

I voted for Obama twice, Hillary, Biden, various state, and various local.

I'm just not going to vote for President if Biden doesn't go harsh on Israel.

There is no way I'm voting for Biden.

someone said Buttery is ROD and that explains a lot. I knew they were shit, but I haven't seen a confirmed ROD in quite a while

Corbenik posted...

There is no way I'm voting for Biden.

so +1 for fascism? good job

thronedfire2 posted...

so +1 for fascism? good job

Some people don't like genocide.

thronedfire2 posted...

so +1 for fascism? good job

whats that?

I'm from California
my vote probably doesn't even matter
rather not vote

Corbenik posted...

whats that?

I'm from California
my vote probably doesn't even matter
rather not vote

Every vote matters. Local elections matter more than national ones.

ClayGuida posted...

Every vote matters. Local elections matter more than national ones.

I don't think thats true

but thats just like my opinion man
you can have your own

Corbenik posted...

I don't think thats true

but thats just like my opinion man
you can have your own

The local elections part is true. Individual Presidential election votes in California are basically pointless though, yes.

Zonbei posted...

The local elections part is true.

Definitely, majority of 2028 and 32 candidates will people that won local/state elections now.

FFS, I never thought I would say this seriously, but American Democracy is under a very serious threat, and that threat is Trump, and the Republican Party as a whole. I would love to teach the Democrats a lesson, but preserving our Great Republic is of upmost importance. Ushering in a Trumptatorship will do nothing to help the Palestinians. In fact, it would do the opposite.

mustachedmystic posted...

FFS, I never thought I would say this seriously, but American Democracy is under a very serious threat, and that threat is Trump, and the Republican Party as a whole. I would love to teach the Democrats a lesson, but preserving our Great Republic is of upmost importance. Ushering in a Trumptatorship will do nothing to help the Palestinians. In fact, it would do the opposite.

I agree completely. Which is why Biden needs to stop jeopardising his re-election by supporting Netanyahu's ethnic cleansing.

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

I agree completely. Which is why Biden needs to stop jeopardising his re-election by supporting Netanyahu's ethnic cleansing.

Yes he does. And we all need to help to preserve democracy, by voting for him. I feel really bad for the Palestinians, what Israel is doing is literally making me sick. But, to put it frankly, America is more important to me.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Don't underestimate the level of leverage the US has over Israel. On diplomatic, financial and military levels.

"Israeli campaign would not be sustainable without this level of U.S. support":
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/

Plus there is precedent in the past when Reagan and Bush Sr. have successfully threatened to withhold arms and financial aid to Israel to pressure them.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Because he knows Biden's "red lines" don't actually mean anything. If Biden demonstrated that crossing them had actual consequences, like an arms embargo and suspension of all US government funding, things would be very different.

Hornezz posted...

Don't underestimate the level of leverage the US has over Israel. On diplomatic, financial and military levels.

This. At a bare minimum we could stop being their blocker for UN resolutions. Treating a red line as a red line and halting military aid would be an even bigger impact.

Hornezz posted...

Don't underestimate the level of leverage the US has over Israel. On diplomatic, financial and military levels.

"Israeli campaign would not be sustainable without this level of U.S. support":
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/

Plus there is precedent in the past when Reagan and Bush Sr. have successfully threatened to withhold arms and financial aid to Israel to pressure them.

I wish people would stop bringing up a precedent from what is essentially a different world. You know how long ago that was, yeah?

Zonbei posted...

I wish people would stop bringing up a precedent from what is essentially a different world. You know how long ago that was, yeah?

Not to mention referencing Reagan in literally any level of good.

Zonbei posted...

I wish people would stop bringing up a precedent from what is essentially a different world. You know how long ago that was, yeah?

I wish people would stop pretending like the unconditional support for Israel, including sending thousands of bombs and missiles, is some irreversible law of nature rather than a choice made by politicians.

FolkenRawr posted...

Not to mention referencing Reagan in literally any level of good.

Withholding weapon sales to deescalate violence is a good thing, yes.

FolkenRawr posted...

Not to mention referencing Reagan in literally any level of good.

https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606/

Zonbei posted...

I wish people would stop bringing up a precedent from what is essentially a different world.

I wish you'd stop making feeble excuses for Biden risking handing America over to fascism in order to keep supporting the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

Do many of you think there is risk of Biden losing votes by removing Israel funding and aid? Do you think he loses less than he gains? More than he gains?

emblem-man posted...

Do many of you think there is risk of Biden losing votes by removing Israel funding and aid? Do you think he loses less than he gains? More than he gains?

One of the more recent polls (released last week):
https://cepr.net/press-release/poll-majority-of-americans-say-biden-should-halt-weapons-shipments-to-israel/

This has a decent overview of sentiment polls over the last few months:
https://bridge.georgetown.edu/research/u-s-polls-show-shifting-landscapes-on-gaza-ceasefire/

I saw people talking about his foreign policy shit a lot but I cant understand why you would care about that so much youd vote against him, unless thats just internet tough guy behavior. Trump sure as hell wont have any better ideas and not voting at all wont do anyone any good.

Hornezz posted...

One of the more recent polls (released last week):
https://cepr.net/press-release/poll-majority-of-americans-say-biden-should-halt-weapons-shipments-to-israel/

This has a decent overview of sentiment polls over the last few months:
https://bridge.georgetown.edu/research/u-s-polls-show-shifting-landscapes-on-gaza-ceasefire/

ok but that doesnt mean all those people arent going to vote for him because of it when Trump would be far, far worse

thronedfire2 posted...

ok but that doesnt mean all those people arent going to vote for him because of it when Trump would be far, far worse

Pointing out that A is better than B doesn't mean A is acceptable or not worth resisting.

Especially younger and non-white Dem voters disapprove of Biden's handling so far, the demographics who are more likely to stay home. Telling such a significant part of the base to 'just fall in line and accept that more bombs will be sent ...or else Trump' isn't exactly the inspiring campaign message that gets the kids out to vote.

Hornezz posted...

I wish people would stop pretending like the unconditional support for Israel, including sending thousands of bombs and missiles, is some irreversible law of nature rather than a choice made by politicians.

It is a choice made by politicians. Note the S at the end of that sentence. The literal only thing Ive said here is that its not up to Biden, only Biden, and Biden can just solve it if he only wanted to. Nobody is saying its a law of nature.

We all want the genocide to end (at least the sane people here), some of us just understand that its largely the republicans who are at fault, (although democrats arent free of blame at all either), and blaming Biden specifically not only isnt helpful, its actively fucking detrimental to the stated goal. Trump is worse. Trump will actively make the genocide worse. Trump will do absolutely nothing to push back against this. Biden has done things, if not enough.

Hornezz posted...

Pointing out that A is better than B doesn't mean A is acceptable or not worth resisting.

Especially younger and non-white Dem voters disapprove of Biden's handling so far, the demographics who are more likely to stay home. Telling such a significant part of the base to 'just fall in line and accept that more bombs will be sent ...or else Trump' isn't exactly the inspiring campaign message that gets the kids out to vote.

it's not "or else Trump". it's "or else the genocide will complete within the first month of Trump taking office"

Zonbei posted...

It is a choice made by politicians. Note the S at the end of that sentence. The literal only thing Ive said here is that its not up to Biden, only Biden, and Biden can just solve it if he only wanted to.

Except in this case, as multiple people have already pointed out to you, he literally can.

Zonbei posted...

We all want the genocide to end

I get that. The trouble is that you don't seem to care that Biden doesn't want it to end.

Zonbei posted...

and blaming Biden specifically not only isnt helpful, its actively fucking detrimental to the stated goal. Trump is worse. Trump will actively make the genocide worse.

Irrelevant. Trump isn't the president. Biden is. Biden is the one with the power right now. Can he single-handedly fundamentally change the US's long-term relationship with Israel? No. Can he put real, material and likely effective pressure on them to stop the current killing by withholding money and weapons? Yes - he could do that right the hell now if he wanted to. He doesn't want to.

Zonbei posted...

Biden has done things

No, he's said things. Not the same.

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

Except in this case, as multiple people have already pointed out to you, he literally can.

I get that. The trouble is that you don't seem to care that Biden doesn't want it to end.

Irrelevant. Trump isn't the president. Biden is. Biden is the one with the power right now. Can he single-handedly fundamentally change the US's long-term relationship with Israel? No. Can he put real, material and likely effective pressure on them to stop the current killing by withholding money and weapons? Yes - he could do that right the hell now if he wanted to. He doesn't want to.

No, he's said things. Not the same.

You tipped your hand too far with the bit about Biden being president now. Were talking about voted for the next one, here. Trump is incredibly relevant. Youre just looking for Biden-bashing opportunities.

Case in point, you dont seem to care Biden doesnt want it to end is wildly disingenuous. Ive never once said I dont care he hasnt done more. Ive said it isnt a reason to let Trump win.

As for as multiple people have already pointed out to you, yes, they did, and I openly disagreed with them because, international politics are more complicated than you think they are, as are domestic politics. Im not saying Biden cant and shouldnt do more. But he cant just snap his fingers and end the genocide, and anyone who thinks he can is delusional.

Have y'all determined which side is most pure and moral yet?

Zonbei posted...

Were talking about voted for the next one, here.

No we're not. We're talking about mass murder in Gaza.

Zonbei posted...

Case in point, you dont seem to care Biden doesnt want it to end is wildly disingenuous.

Well, no, it isn't, because you don't. You keep saying you'd like him to "do more" and then in the next breath saying he either can't or shouldn't do the things he could, in fact, do if he wanted to.

Zonbei posted...

I openly disagreed with them because, international politics are more complicated than you think they are, as are domestic politics.

"It's complicated" is usually just an excuse centrists make for refusing to do any good. This is not an exception.

Zonbei posted...

Ive never once said I dont care he hasnt done more. Ive said it isnt a reason to let Trump win.

So have I.

Zonbei posted...

But he cant just snap his fingers and end the genocide

You framing it in this childish way just show how dishonest you're being.

thronedfire2 posted...

Trump would be far, far worse

Zonbei posted...

Trump is worse.

Stop pretending that a Trump reelection is the only alternative to Biden's support for Israel. It's not true.

Any argument that's a threat of another Trump presidency can only be valid if you can prove that sending more bombs to Israel is necessary for Biden to win the election in the first place. And you can't. In fact it's likely costing him voters.

There are plenty of options for Biden to use his powers to make a change.

• He can threaten to stop diplomatic cover in the UN.
• He can threaten to withhold arms sales.
• He can place conditions on further financial aid.

It has been done before, including with Israel. And those examples are just ways to actively stop supporting Israel, there's also a plethora of sanctions that can be imposed.

Plugging your ears and insisting 'nothing can be done, bombs must be sent, or Trump wins' is not based in any sort of reality. This Trump-whataboutism is just a hollow way to shut down criticism.

Zonbei posted...

some of us just understand that its largely the republicans who are at fault,

Contrary to what some people might have told you, there's actually a Democrat in the White House right now.

It was Biden's administration that lifted restrictions on Israeli access to US arms:
https://theintercept.com/2023/11/25/biden-israel-weapons-stockpile-arms-gaza/

It was Biden's administration that sold tens of thousands of weapons, bypassing Congress and avoiding public disclosure:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-the-us-arms-pipeline-to-israel-avoids-public-disclosure/ar-BB1jsepL

Acting as if he doesn't have the power to not do these things is blatantly false.

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

No we're not. We're talking about mass murder in Gaza.

Well, no, it isn't, because you don't. You keep saying you'd like him to "do more" and then in the next breath saying he either can't or shouldn't do the things he could, in fact, do if he wanted to.

"It's complicated" is usually just an excuse centrists make for refusing to do any good. This is not an exception.

So have I.

You framing it in this childish way just show how dishonest you're being.

it is hilarious you seem to think Im some kind of centrist. Im as far left as it gets, bud. Im just also pragmatic instead of screaming about my hopes and wishes until Im blue in the face.

no, the topic is quite literally about Biden and voting for him over Trump. That has been the topic since moment one, and it got diverted to Gaza IN THAT CONTEXT. Trump is very relevant.

i do want the genocide to stop. If Biden could make it happen, I would want him to. I just dont believe he can. I dont understand why you cant grasp that. You can even disagree, but pretending I simply dont care or am being disingenuous in some way is bullshit. I can just as easily (more easily really) claim you dont really care and just want to find reasons to tell people not to vote for Biden, so.

Hornezz posted...

Stop pretending that a Trump reelection is the only alternative to Biden's support for Israel. It's not true.

Any argument that's a threat of another Trump presidency can only be valid if you can prove that sending more bombs to Israel is necessary for Biden to win the election in the first place. And you can't. In fact it's likely costing him voters.

There are plenty of options for Biden to use his powers to make a change.
* He can threaten to stop diplomatic cover in the UN.
* He can threaten to withhold arms sales.
* He can place conditions on further financial aid.
It has been done before, including with Israel. And those examples are just ways to actively stop supporting Israel, there's also a plethora of sanctions that can be imposed.

Plugging your ears and insisting 'nothing can be done, bombs must be sent, or Trump wins' is not based in any sort of reality. This Trump-whataboutism is just a hollow way to shut down criticism.

Contrary to what some people might have told you, there's actually a Democrat in the White House right now.

It was Biden's administration that lifted restrictions on Israeli access to US arms:
https://theintercept.com/2023/11/25/biden-israel-weapons-stockpile-arms-gaza/

It was Biden's administration that sold tens of thousands of weapons, bypassing Congress and avoiding public disclosure:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/how-the-us-arms-pipeline-to-israel-avoids-public-disclosure/ar-BB1jsepL

Acting as if he doesn't have the power to not do these things is blatantly false.

I know you already have all your points lined up and ready to go, but at least make an attempt to respond to the things Im actually saying.

I am not insisting bombs must be sent or Trump wins. I am not even saying its false that Biden could do those things youre listing. Im saying I dont think it would actually stop the genocide. Im saying I dont think Biden, singlehandedly, can stop the genocide. The Biden administration and the democrats are more than just Biden, and having a Democrat in the White House doesnt magically mean republicans hold no blame here.

we are both commenting on these things with startlingly little knowledge of what compromises and deals have led to these things happening, and how they tie into the rest of governance and international politics. THAT is what Ive been saying. sure, for all we know, its all nefarious and evil and Biden wants people to get murdered because hes a bigot. More likely, its the result of a delicate balancing act with a volatile ally we have obligations to who are now doing horrible things that are STILL SUPPORTED BY A LOT OF AMERICANS. Either way, things will be worse if we dont vote for Biden. Thats the unfortunate truth of the situation. Even if hes secretly an evil monster, hes the less evil, less monstrous choice.

You can criticize Biden all you want. I dont want to shut down criticism. Biden fucking sucks. Its when you move from criticism to dont vote for Biden, so Trump can win and literally make the genocide even worse, potentially leading to many deaths elsewhere as well that I start wondering what the hell your motives even are.

Zonbei posted...

no, the topic is quite literally about Biden and voting for him over Trump.

The topic creator only made like 3 short posts. His question was answered on post #5.

FunWithAFryPan posted...

ThunderTrain posted...

So vote for a guy that says to finish the problem?

The question posed in your topic is Is this the only knock on Biden? The answer to that question is no.

Could the topic creator honestly not know Biden's involvement in the genocide? Yes. He could also be playing dumb for light genocide denial trolling.