Current Events > So the only knock on Biden is his age?

(+) Yeah! (+)

bfslick50 posted...

You literally said they should wait 4 years and 8 months for a possible Democrat supermajority. If you need to act now then why are you advocating for 4 more years of waiting?

Where did I say anything about waiting 4 years, what in the world are you even talking about?

Hornezz posted...

Where did I say anything about waiting 4 years, what in the world are you even talking about?

My bad, I mixed up you and the Buttery post I just responded to.

If Biden loses, then it's an additional 4 year wait while Trump tells Netanyahu to do whatever he wants with regards to Palestine. How is that going to make things better? The group that doesn't want to help Ukraine sure as fuck isn't going to help Palestinians.

The individual Congressional representatives are less vital and they collectively have power over Biden. Pressure them to pressure Biden is the way to get Palestine help now.

If Biden loses, there may not be a Palenstine to save in 4 years .

We're playing political chicken here. I agree that Biden should be pressured, but going too far will lead to ruin.

bfslick50 posted...

It probably wouldnt have been a supermajority if the economy didnt crash 50 days before the election.

That shows an economic crisis would be best under Trump. If we hold the Senate for four years Trump does nothing and we might get a supermajority.

bfslick50 posted...

No, Congress has power over the president.

Exactly what I've been saying. Vote for Democratic Senators and Congresspeople Trump will have no power.

bfslick50 posted...

Waiting 4 years as a lesson when people are starving now is selfish.

A healthy adult can last 28 days without food while Palestine is mostly children. We have to stop saying we need to vote for Biden. We don't.

ButteryMales posted...

That shows an economic crisis would be best under Trump.

We're not in an economic crisis. If Trump changes and literally nothing about the economy changed everyone in the media would be constantly gushing about how great things are.

ButteryMales posted...

Exactly what I've been saying. Vote for Democratic Senators and Congresspeople Trump will have no power.

Do you not remember Trump's first presidency? Biden will sign what a progressive Congress passes. Trump won't and has no fucking problem shutting down the government over a grudge.

bfslick50 posted...

If Biden loses,

Why would Biden pivoting on Israel make him lose the election?

Making up these hypothetical scenarios of a Trump win are meaningless without answering that question. I've asked this a ton of times and nobody answers it, yet so many treat it like an undeniable fact.

bfslick50 posted...

The individual Congressional representatives are less vital and they collectively have power over Biden. Pressure them to pressure Biden is the way to get Palestine help now.

Pressure all of them. The protestors aren't demanding absolute perfection. Asking your government to stop actively supporting a massacre is not an unreasonable demand.

Hornezz posted...

Why would Biden pivoting on Israel make him lose the election?

Wouldn't, he should pivot now.

Hornezz posted...

Making up these hypothetical scenarios of a Trump win are meaningless without answering that question. I've asked this a ton of times and nobody answers it, yet so many treat it like an undeniable fact.

If he doesn't pivot before the election because he's too stuck on a decades old view of politics, if it's Trump versus Biden... Trump will absolutely guarantee that no Palestinian receives aid over the next 4 years. No foreign aid, no accepted refugees, and a Muslim ban are literal cornerstones of his platform. With a Biden presidency you have hope for improvement. There's a lot of issues he's gotten more progessive on over the years: acceptance of LGBT, college loan forgiveness, but Trump aint going to budge, it's what his supporters love about him. If Trump wins, how is there any hope for improvement?

ButteryMales posted...

Exactly what I've been saying. Vote for Democratic Senators and Congresspeople Trump will have no power.

At least you finanly admit you are rooting for Trump. No thanks I like my friends having rights. Trump in four years mananged to crash the econamy, kill 1 million americans and destroy abortion rights. Let's not play "LOL wouldn't it be so funny if we vote Trump?!"
Vote Biden.
Hornezz posted...

Why would Biden pivoting on Israel make him lose the election?

Why do you think he and every previous President in your lifetime has supported Israel. No really take a minuite and actually think.

ButteryMales posted...

Exactly what I've been saying. Vote for Democratic Senators and Congresspeople Trump will have no power.

And what about when Trump gets to nominate 1-2 more extremist Supreme Court judges?

Also, explain how democrats not only hold onto their current seats but pick up 10 more to get a super majority?

bfslick50 posted...

Wouldn't, he should pivot now.

Cool, we're in agreement. Now it's up to Biden to listen to his voterbase and ensure the win.

havean776 posted...

Why do you think he and every previous President in your lifetime has supported Israel. No really take a minuite and actually think.

Your question is based on a false premise. Ronald Reagan used the shipment of F16 as leverage to make Israel stand down in Lebanon. Bush Sr. threatened to withhold financial aid to pressure Israel towards peace talks. Biden can do so too.

Hornezz posted...

Cool, we're in agreement. Now it's up to Biden to listen to his voterbase and ensure the win.

If Biden wins without pivoting, theres still a chance of improvements by Congress pressing him to improve.

If Trump wins, how can things improve? Stop dodging the question.

bfslick50 posted...

Do you not remember Trump's first presidency? Biden will sign what a progressive Congress passes. Trump won't and has no fucking problem shutting down the government over a grudge.

Mitch McConnell was majority leader from 2015 to 2021.

havean776 posted...

At least you finanly admit you are rooting for Trump.

Vote for Democrats in Senate and House to stop Trump is not saying I want Trump to win. Biden nearly losing might be good enough, I can't see the future.

havean776 posted...

Trump in four years mananged to crash the econamy, kill 1 million americans and destroy abortion rights. Let's not play "LOL wouldn't it be so funny if we vote Trump?!"

1 million Americans died under Biden too.

Both the OSHA mandate and Roe v. Wade overturns could have been avoided if Mitch McConnell was arrested for treason like he should have been during the Obama administration.

Heineken14 posted...

And what about when Trump gets to nominate 1-2 more extremist Supreme Court judges?

They already have double the Republicans to Democrats on the Supreme Court. The only solution is for a congressional supermajority to enforce rules on the Supreme Court like a term limit.

Edit:If we hold the Senate Trump can't put Justices up to vote.

Heineken14 posted...

Also, explain how democrats not only hold onto their current seats but pick up 10 more to get a super majority?

Dissatisfaction with a Trump presidency like after the dissatisfaction with the Bush presidency.

ButteryMales posted...

Mitch McConnell was majority leader from 2015 to 2021.

Vote for Democrats in Senate and House to stop Trump is not saying I want Trump to win. Biden nearly losing might be good enough, I can't see the future.

1 million Americans died under Biden too.

Both the OSHA mandate and Roe v. Wade overturns could have been avoided if Mitch McConnell was arrested for treason like he should have been during the Obama administration.

They already have double the Republicans to Democrats on the Supreme Court. The only solution is for a congressional supermajority to enforce rules on the Supreme Court like a term limit.

Dissatisfaction with a Trump presidency like after the dissatisfaction with the Bush presidency.

You're just saying things now.

Heineken14 posted...

You're just saying things now.

Communication is saying things. Wow!

Anything wrong with what I said?

bfslick50 posted...

If Trump wins, how can things improve? Stop dodging the question.

Your question is irrelevant to what Hornezz (and most of the rest of us) have been saying. No one, except maybe ButteryMales, is saying "it would be better if Trump won". We're saying "it would be a fucking disaster if Trump won, and that's why Biden needs to stop jeopardising his chance of re-election by supporting Netanyahu's genocide".

bfslick50 posted...

If Trump wins, how can things improve? Stop dodging the question.

I told you: hypotheticals of a Trump win are nonsensical as long as Biden's stance on Israel isn't a necessity for a win. You agreed it wasn't. I'm not participating in what if scenario's that have nothing to do with my position on Gaza.

You should join in putting pressure on Biden. Not only is him no longer aiding in a massacre the morally right thing to do, he can win back the people who currently feel unheard and disenfranchised by his handling of the issue - and increase his chance of winning.

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

No one, except maybe ButteryMales, is saying "it would be better if Trump won".

If Biden has U.S. troops take aid into Gaza by force and stop giving money to Israel, I would just vote for Biden.

I've already asked what's wrong with anything I've said. I was talking to 3 different people so I might have made a mistake.

I'm just going to say what we're all thinking. While it's sad that genocide is going on in the Middle East, it's not on the list of priorities. I'm more concerned about what the Republicans are doing to the Muslims, POC, LGBTQ+, and women over here. And are actively promising what they'll do if given full power.

Hypnospace posted...

Despite your username you evidently haven't learned from the 2016 election

What didn't I learn?

nocturnal_traveler posted...

I'm just going to say what we're all thinking. While it's sad that genocide is going on in the Middle East, it's not on the list of priorities. I'm more concerned about what the Republicans are doing to the Muslims, POC, LGBTQ+, and women over here. And are actively promising what they'll do if given full power.

First world privilege is one people don't check apparently.

Biden's support for Israel is bad.

Point out which of our political parties is beginning a genocide on trans people and. watch a certain someone trip on their own feet.

Rexdragon125 posted...

This. Everyone deflecting to Biden is sickening when the other guy openly states how he wants to be a dictator and plagiarizes Hitler speeches. Then when someone brings up Project 2025 they have nothing to say about it for some strange reason.

Yeah, I've noticed that the Biden/Trump '24 fence sitters to a person get oddly quiet when project 2025 comes up. I guess it's easier to just ignore it than try to come up with justifications for allowing a crybaby wannabe dictator who has openly stated that his next term would be a revenge tour against all the people he has perceived as "wronging" him because "Biden did one thing I dont like that literally every president before him has done."

Hypnospace posted...

You're advocating for complete apathy to the election when that's literally what won Trump the 2016 election in the first place lmao.

No what lost Hillary the election is not campaigning in battleground states. You can't blame voters for Hillary's own apathy for campaigning.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547

I also said people could go the extra mile and vote for Democrats down ballot. I just don't want to say apathy for Biden is unwarranted because he fucking sucks. Biden should just fucking end the genocide.

Hypnospace posted...

If Trump wins I definitely don't want to hear shit from you about how bad things are for the next four years

Why? We'd be agreeing.

ButteryMales posted...

No what lost Hillary the election is not campaigning in battleground states. You can't blame voters for Hillary's own apathy for campaigning.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547

I also said people could go the extra mile and vote for Democrats down ballot. I just don't want to say apathy for Biden is unwarranted because he fucking sucks. Biden should just fucking end the genocide.

Why? We'd be agreeing.

Biden should just end the genocide.

Are you you realize Biden isnt doing the genocide personally, right? Literally nothing Biden can do would end the genocide.

Friendly reminder that the people who get upset when others say they won't support Biden due to Israel, get just as upset when this is said in the context of Democrat primaries where Trump is irrelevant.

That should tell you all you need to know about how important Palestine really is to them, and even more so, whether their stance is really about Trump at all.

Zonbei posted...

Are you you realize Biden isnt doing the genocide personally, right? Literally nothing Biden can do would end the genocide.

Yes it would. We've already been through this. All he has to do is say "no more money or weapons until you stop". Even goodamn Reagan did that in the 80s, and it worked.

Zonbei posted...

Biden should just end the genocide.

Are you you realize Biden isnt doing the genocide personally, right? Literally nothing Biden can do would end the genocide.

Why are we the world police when it comes to Bolivia, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Iraq, Cuba but suddenly it's wrong to stop a genocide?

We invaded Iraq based on a lie and there's a plain as day genocide now.

ButteryMales posted...

Why are we the world police when it comes to Bolivia, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Iraq, Cuba but suddenly it's wrong to stop a genocide?

We invaded Iraq based on a lie and there's a plain as day genocide now.

And few if any people are calling for the US to invade Israel. Just to stop supplying weapons and other support to the aggressor.

Trumble posted...

Friendly reminder that the people who get upset when others say they won't support Biden due to Israel, get just as upset when this is said in the context of Democrat primaries where Trump is irrelevant.

That should tell you all you need to know about how important Palestine really is to them, and even more so, whether their stance is really about Trump at all.

I have never seen anyone get upset about the primaries. I certainly dont give a shit. Neither of them is getting primaried, theyre irrelevant. I cant fathom why anyone would care about people not supporting Biden in the primaries, a thing he is definitely winning no matter what.

kind of feels like you just made this up tbh.

ButteryMales posted...

Why are we the world police when it comes to Bolivia, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Iraq, Cuba but suddenly it's wrong to stop a genocide?

We invaded Iraq based on a lie and there's a plain as day genocide now.

Who the fuck said it was wrong? I said we have no way of doing it, unless you want to start a war with Israel.

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

Yes it would. We've already been through this. All he has to do is say "no more money or weapons until you stop". Even goodamn Reagan did that in the 80s, and it worked.

The fact you think that would stop the genocide is certainly a thing you think for some reason.

Zonbei posted...

The fact you think that would stop the genocide is certainly a thing you think for some reason.

Thats an extraordinary number of sales over the course of a pretty short amount of time, which really strongly suggests that the Israeli campaign would not be sustainable without this level of U.S. support, said Jeremy Konyndyk, a former senior Biden administration official and current president of Refugees International.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/06/us-weapons-israel-gaza/

Zonbei posted...

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

Yes it would. We've already been through this. All he has to do is say "no more money or weapons until you stop". Even goodamn Reagan did that in the 80s, and it worked.

The fact you think that would stop the genocide is certainly a thing you think for some reason.

Show your critical thinking skills and say what's untrue about what Thanatos said.

ButteryMales posted...

Show your critical thinking skills and say what's untrue about what Thanatos said.

As we all know, Israel will easily back down from genocide and will just stop if the US says to. They're so reasonable after all, and they only did it because they noticed they had the weapons lying around.

That quote isnt a fact, its someones thoughts on the matter. And the idea they wont get weapons elsewhere or just keep killing people less effectively it all else fails is laughable. Would it be great if it was less effective? Yes. Are there things Biden can potentially do, if we ignore the complex geopolitical and locally political factors? Yes. Do I think Biden sucks? Yes.

Is all of that irrelevant in the face of Trump? Yes. Can Joe Biden literally singlehandedly stop a fucking genocide by Israel? No. Thinking the SINGULAR thing that could stop Israel is one man, even the US president, is insane.

ButteryMales posted...

First world privilege is one people don't check apparently.

Don't care. Just because Jim Crow 2.0 won't personally affect you, doesn't mean it won't affect me and those I care about.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

Don't care. Just because Jim Crow 2.0 won't personally affect you, doesn't mean it won't affect me and those I care about.

I'm Mexican and Jewish.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

Don't care. Just because Jim Crow 2.0 won't personally affect you, doesn't mean it won't affect me and those I care about.

The fact that this user thinks worrying about human rights being taken away is a "first world privilege" tells you how much he actually cares about what he's arguing about.

ButteryMales posted...

I'm Mexican and Jewish.

Then you're a fool, and would be the first to disappear, while I and my family would become second class citizens.

Umbreon posted...

The fact that this user thinks worrying about human rights being taken away is a "first world privilege" tells you how much he actually cares about what he's arguing about.

I sincerely hope it's just trolling at this point.

Zonbei posted...

As we all know, Israel will easily back down from genocide and will just stop if the US says to.

Not "says to" - withholds financial and military support if they don't comply. This isn't theory - it's worked multiple times in the past.

Zonbei posted...

Can Joe Biden literally singlehandedly stop a fucking genocide by Israel?

There's a very strong possibility, backed by historical precedent and economic reality, that yes, he can. Maybe it wouldn't work this time - but we won't know unless he fucking tries.

Zonbei posted...

Is all of that irrelevant in the face of Trump?

No, it's all the more relevant, because putting that pressure on the Israeli regime, and doing so with maximum publicity, is what would stop Biden from alienating some of his natural supporters and potentially handing Trump a second term. Is that what you want?

Thanatos_the_Great posted...

Not "says to" - withholds financial and military support if they don't comply. This isn't theory - it's worked multiple times in the past.

There's a very strong possibility, backed by historical precedent and economic reality, that yes, he can. Maybe it wouldn't work this time - but we won't know unless he fucking tries.

No, it's all the more relevant, because putting that pressure on the Israeli regime, and doing so with maximum publicity, is what would stop Biden from alienating some of his natural supporters and potentially handing Trump a second term. Is that what you want?

And it would alienate a bunch of other Biden supporters because sadly a lot of people are fucking morons. Thats not an argument. Anyone who doesnt vote for Biden at this point is an idiot. Unless they would like the genocide to continue AND for everything to get worse.

I think there are complex reasons why there isnt more public pressure on Israel, and I dont think I know enough to dictate policy, unlike you apparently do. I wish that Biden could singlehandedly stop the genocide and it wouldnt blow up in our faces, but Im not certain thats the case.

Zonbei posted...

And it would alienate a bunch of other Biden supporters

There's no reason at all to believe this would outweigh the damage he's doing to his support now.

Zonbei posted...

Anyone who doesnt vote for Biden at this point is an idiot.

You're right. But telling them they're idiots isn't an election-winning message.

Zonbei posted...

I wish that Biden could singlehandedly stop the genocide and it wouldnt blow up in our faces, but Im not certain thats the case.

Neither am I. But I'm sure as hell not certain it isn't. Like I said, we won't know unless he fucking tries. Never mind that he should try anyway, both because it's the right thing to do and because I don't want a fascist in the White House again.

Umbreon posted...

The fact that this user thinks worrying about human rights being taken away is a "first world privilege" tells you how much he actually cares about what he's arguing about.

Are you not allowed to say "ignore the genocide" like you have been? Can Palestinians in Israel say "ignore the genocide"?

Hypnospace posted...

You can't complain about an election result you did nothing to prevent.

I agree, Biden can't complain about losing.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

Then you're a fool, and would be the first to disappear,

Dark fantasies much?