Board 8 > Valentine's Day Mafia Topic 12: All's Fair in Love and War

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's a simple. Question. If there's no harm in it, why aren't you giving it?

Scum scum scum. Perish.

Isquen posted...

It's a simple. Question. If there's no harm in it, why aren't you giving it?

Scum scum scum. Perish.

You have the problem backwards. If it is specified as not mattering then why are you asking. No answer I could give means ANYTHING.

My flavor is Meg Ryan
My flavor is Tom Hanks
My flavor is Cupid (not the cherub with the bow and heart arrow, the moon around Uranus)
My flavor is BTS (yes, the entire band)
My flavor is Squall Leonheart

Take your pick

Edit: typo

I rest my case. Over 20 minutes and reticent to give a simple flavor name when it has nothing to do with a role.

Isquen posted...

I rest my case. Over 20 minutes and reticent to give a simple flavor name when it has nothing to do with a role.

Over 20 minutes asking for something that doesn't matter.

And still no actual answer. Once again, all fluff, no substance. Like all game.

Shun this man today, or shun me and kill me. I care not which now.

FD and I talked a lot about potential different scenarios last night, and luckily the most straightforward one where Chris got shot is the one that happens.

We lynch Ulti today. Simple as.

"It was all town at the end of day!"
This whole argument doesn't hold up anymore when scum has seen the blueprint work every single day. We narrow down the lynch to a final 3. Everyone says that things are too simple and that we messed up. We do a last second pivot. Ulti and Isquen went into the final 3. Declared that it was all town, then desperately swung for a pivot anywhere they could get it.

Ulti spent all game reading me as town, then swapped it up when he did his PoE analysis to try and isolate me with him and Isquen. I rightly called at that point that it was a ridiculous plan because the obvious conclusion was them not dating me and leaving me behind. When it was clear that I wasn't going to be the one with them, Ulti completely dropped all suspicion of me, and started pointing fingers desperately at anyone else he could.

We explained 40+ times why it was important that Ulti and Isquen don't pair together, but they did it anyways. Because it sets them up to pair on 5, which is exactly when they need to pair for early MYLO. If they hadn't paired yesterday, we could have had them pair today and test someone else like Sultan. But because they paired, we CANNOT afford to let them through today. Ulti and Isquen is the most probably scum team at the very front end of the PoE, and we lynch one of them today.

Isquen posted...

In fact every goddamn time the possibility of throwing Sultan on the chopping block comes up you try to deflect.

##date: Dumey

What say you to that?

This post in particular reeks of a desperate attempt to appeal to my game-long tunnel vision of Sultan to try and squeeze one more night so they can pair tomorrow. Even if Isquen was town, pairing with me here would be moronic if he thought I was scum, as he would want me to pair with someone else he suspects today so that I couldn't pair with them tomorrow. Complete theater from Isquen here.

The rest of the town we try to pair up smartly to avoid a scum pair on 5 if somehow Ulti is just bad town instead of scum. But that's just insurance.

MZero posted...

Also with Chris flipped town I'm more inclined to believe his soul read of Sultan so I'm putting my money on Ulti/Isquen

I honestly think it's just that simple. They were the ones who didn't want to go along with a plan that would mathematically prevent them from winning, they wasted the whole day first paired up and then seeming to go along with what we wanted, only to pair again. They would have just killed Dumey instead of Kirby if we put him in the final 3 with them.

EDumey posted...

Complete theater from Isquen here.

When have I *ever* been able to keep a power role a secret?

If you wanted to lynch FD today, then you shouldn't have moronically partnered up with the one person everyone suspected you of being scum with. You left us with no choice but to resolve you Ulti. But thank you for simplifying the pairs for me. By insisting that scum must be FD/MZero, then luckily we can account for that.

Pairs today should be

FD-MZero
Sultan-Isquen
Dumey-JC

Ulti dies.

Isquen trying to push the Sultan lynch means he's not scum with Isquen. Ulti if you're somehow right, then by pairing FD and MZero today, they can't pair tomorrow on 5 and they can be lynched.

Isquen posted...

When have I *ever* been able to keep a power role a secret?

You're not keeping it secret. You're overacting and calling everyone else terrible and pretending like everyone is out to get you, despite you uselessly tunneling on me all game and having almost no risk to you at any point in the game outside of when Chris said to lynch you because he didn't want us going after Sultan.

Maybe if you worked with us at any point in the game and appeared to read instead of playing the victim the entire time, then you'd be more believable.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Im the only one bothering to check the wishes of dead players,

Right, like Chris reading Peaf's interactions D1 and just saying it's probably Isquen, and Kirby agreeing with his analysis.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Isquen I have a soul read on.

Oh wait it's convenient for you to handwave that when you have a soul read on a scum buddy.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I am 100% ok with this, but I want assurances that me flipping vanilla means you actually kill FD or MZero tomorrow.

I am completely on the train of if its you or Justin, you win. Dont care. Youd deserve it for being the final 3 day one and staying alive all game lmao

I already told FD if he was alive tomorrow, we probably policy lynch him regardless. So if he's scum, he knows that's the plan anyways. So the best we can do to avoid a scum FD win is try to pair him up with any potential scum partner today.

But again, unfortunately YOUR most likely scum partner is the one you can't date today. So you really have forced the order of operations here.

Tbh id prefer not to pair with MZero so he could pair with Sultan, which is who I think are most likely to be scum if Ulti and Isquen aren't. But then I'd have to pair with isquen and I get the impression he might not allow that

UltimaterializerX posted...

Im willing to bet everyone thats been willing to blow themselves up this game has been town.

UltimaterializerX posted...

The PoE is so small now with me/Isquen/day1 out that it cannot be anyone BUT FD and MZero.

I did that tho

UltimaterializerX posted...

Those are Dumeys thoughts.

Anyone reading that and actually thinking day one was 3 scum? Am I nuts here?

I considered Peaf JC Dumey and told Dumey as much last night

But if he and JC pair tonight then they can't win on 5 so that's the only real way it can be accounted for today.

fd just claim so we can move on youve admitted its inconsequential, I agree, the rules say its irrelevant so Isquen probably has nothing. youve got the same egg on your face as Isquen does

(In terms of being stubborn, no point in it)

UltimaterializerX posted...

Those are Dumeys thoughts.

Anyone reading that and actually thinking day one was 3 scum? Am I nuts here?

Is there something particular you're pointing to there? I don't even know what straws you're grasping for here.

EDumey posted...

Is there something particular you're pointing to there? I don't even know what straws you're grasping for here.

youre getting he knew Lea was towns lol

townd damnit

UltimaterializerX posted...

You didnt have Isquen in the PoE.

can you please for once contextualize an argument oh my god

UltimaterializerX posted...

Room 4 - Lopen and Isquen - What to say about Isquen. PoE

...what?

UltimaterializerX posted...

You didnt have Isquen in the PoE.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Room 4 - Lopen and Isquen - What to say about Isquen. PoE because not much to go on. I do appreciate that when he was here, he wasn't content to just take Ulti's date, and seemed to honestly think about who he wanted to date. He was in final 5 and was still being a little picky about who he wanted to date. Isquen is probably town in this situation.

I know you only think of things as 100% town or scum soul reads. But I feel like I communicated my opinion pretty clearly there.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Tbh id prefer not to pair with MZero so he could pair with Sultan, which is who I think are most likely to be scum if Ulti and Isquen aren't. But then I'd have to pair with isquen and I get the impression he might not allow that

MZero posted...

So if we go with your new plan, Sultan and I should date,

Respectfully, if you both have independently suggested to not date each other, and I have to minimize risk, then I kind of feel like you two have to date today.

Sultan and JC can give their opinions on pairings though.

I'm fine with dating whoever you all decide is my most likely scum partner

Chaeix posted...

fd just claim so we can move on youve admitted its inconsequential, I agree, the rules say its irrelevant so Isquen probably has nothing. youve got the same egg on your face as Isquen does

For you? Sure.

Joseph Gordon Levitt, town vanilla

Flavor mentions his various roles in romantic comedies such as 500 Days of Summer and 10 things I hate about you. There was more about the relationship between Summer and Tom (JGL's character)

Didn't mean much to me, haven't seen those movies in ages.

Gonna get ready for bed now though then I'll be on PC for a bit.

UltimaterializerX posted...

So going into D3, my thoughts are
Town: Dumey, JC, Corrik, Kirby, Isquen, Red (?), Chris(?)
POE: FD, MZero, Ulti, Lopen
Scum: Sultan

He didnt have Isquen in there.

Okay. I talked myself into thinking probably town. I said as much in my breakdown. What is the relevance of this?

Mzero already gave mine, it remains ulti/isquen/sultan

Isquen Yesterday at 4:30 PM
Dumey's room 6 commentary looks suspect
[4:30 PM]
Why hope that red gets shot with a dead miller

UltimaterializerX Yesterday at 5:06 PM
Yeah thats really sus
[5:06 PM]
How do you parse that with Reds read though? Dumey should have paired with Peaf on day 1.
[5:06 PM]
They would have to ALL be scum for it to work.

Isquen Yesterday at 5:15 PM
I thought that was the weird part of day 1 where they split intentionally
[5:15 PM]
Because it was after mutual date cutoff
[5:15 PM]
Who was Peaf trying to date after that?

##breakup

I'd still really like to know why Dumey was hoping Red would get shot when we weren't 100% sure he was cop... and with Lea being left outside as a miller.

But whatever, I'm going to bed. Please, *please* try and actually fucking scumhunt. If you don't I swear to God I will channel Lopen from the grave and accuse everyone for two hundred posts just to get you to kill me collectively and quickly so I can *leave,* since no one ever fucking listens to me when I'm alive anyways until I'm no longer an easy mislynch target.

On PC finally, so have some #Data

Day 1:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a9179bcf.png

Day 2:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/14d4366e.png

Day 3:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/d9a1f20b.png

Day 4:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a5997c12.png

My response after compiling/review these was:

I really don't think day 4 means much because a majority of the day was spent arranging how the dates would line up, with the wild card of course being Ulti/Isquen spending the first half of the day together, and then more or less refusing to participate in the plan when push came to shove.

But wait, there's more! I also put together a list of actions for all 4 days smushed together, and rather than color coding it by what the action was I color coded it by who the action was aimed at.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a9d7225b.png

I then looked at who the most common targets were for each person:

MZero: Ulti x2, Dumey x2

JC: MZero x2, Dumey x2

Isquen: MZero x4, JC x3, Chris x3, Ulti x2, FD x2

FD: Chris x2, Dumey x2

Ulti: Dumey x5, Isquen x5, MZero x3, Sultan x3

Dumey: Ulti x4, JC x3,

Sultan: Chris x4, MZero x4, Ulti x4

Chris: FD x3, Sultan x3

This isn't a judgement on what the interactions mean, this is just a base line of who's name showed up the most often on each persons timeline of actions. I'm actually surprised to see Chris interacted with me 3x, and outside me and Sultan he hasn't interacted with anyone else still alive.

You and Ulti have a lot of cross pollination as well, but a majority of that was in a 5 minute window so that's why the context has to be considered.

If Red was alive, then we would have had to suspect him of being scum. Him being shot as expected makes that whole WIFOM scenario not exist. It's the same thing as me saying that Chris dying today led to a more straight forward scenario today. Because if scum didn't shoot him, then we would have to seriously consider a Sultan/Chris scum pair.

From that same night chat with Ulti:

I do want to think though of the possibility of what happens if Red is still alive.
[4:01 PM]
If Miller existed, then is it reasonable that Godfather also existed with only 3 scum? It would make Cop incredibly weak as a role, but also would mean scum could risk not killing Red right away, and kill Corrik instead or something.
[4:02 PM]
The scenario I'm afraid of is Town Red/Town Corrik, but scum kill Corrik, and Town lynches Red because Corrik said normal cop doesn't exist in this setup.
[4:03 PM]
But if it's scum Red/ Town Corrik, then killing Corrik and trying to live on a WIFOM argument would be exactly what scum would need to do.

Isquen posted...

But whatever, I'm going to bed. Please, *please* try and actually fucking scumhunt. If you don't I swear to God I will channel Lopen from the grave and accuse everyone for two hundred posts just to get you to kill me collectively and quickly so I can *leave,* since no one ever fucking listens to me when I'm alive anyways until I'm no longer an easy mislynch target.

What do you think scum hunting is, Isquen? This is manufactured anger. You've done nothing all game but insist that you're right about things, while we've actually tried to think through motivations of different players and try to pressure people.

Hell Isquen spent the entire day yesterday upset that we were trying to kill him, when we just actia;;u wanted to lynch Ulti and we just needed him to date anyone that WASN'T Ulti. It was a baffling and seemingly deliberate lack of comprehension. But it begins to make sense if the motivation is one where they had already decided they needed to date yesterday, whatever the cost and then try and get someone, anyone else mislynched the next day.

EDumey posted...

Sultan and JC can give their opinions on pairings though.

JC has posted since this was said, but didn't address it. I would just like to have JC verify that he is in fact willing to pair Dumey again today and know if he has strong feelings about the other two pairing combinations.

Sultan hasn't posted yet, but similar questions when he's here.

I think JC is town for the same reason I thought Lea was town. His confusion in regards to Peaf's claim seems too genuine to be informed, since Peaf's actual role functioned mostly the same way (targeting a room).

UltimaterializerX posted...

I don't think scum makes a fake claim that moronic. No equity in it. It's also a completely and thoroughly impossible role for scum to fake on night 1.

Peaf should live.

If anyone has the gutsack to post this as scum, it's Ulti lol the man did claim Thanos, Town Miller that one time

Lopen posted...

Ulti power wolfing

Lopen agrees, and according to Ulti, we should follow his reads :D

changmas posted...

Paired
Lea and JC
FD and MZero
Sultan and Sir Chris
Ulti and Dumey

Unpaired
Lopen
Isquen
Corrik
Red
Kirby

Start of topic 7 (Day 2). Names in bold have flipped town. Lopen and Isquen date leaving a town trifecta of Corrik/Red/Kirby. JC dumps lea and picks up Corrik, leaving yet another 3-pack of town.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I don't think ANY group is worth trying a triple on. I think it's just mathematically awful and it effectively removes a full day from the game. Like, even if we got a guilty scan on Chris/Sultan tonight I wouldn't say "yeah, let's just kill them both at once!", I think it would be correct to still eliminate them one at a time. If they are both scum then we just end the game 1 day slower, and if only 1 is scum we don't sacrifice 2 town for a scum. If the game isn't straight up ending on that play then town has 1 less day/attempt to close it out.

FD speaking out against a triple kill on three town, +1 town point

Red claims cop and Dumey doesn't drop Ulti to save him. He only had a few posts between red's claim and Kirby dating him because he had something come up, which I am not going to doubt. Still don't love it but it seemed like he was waiting for red to respond to Corrik before deciding. Meh

I will say if Ulti is scum this game he is open wolfing like no one's business

UltimaterializerX posted...

This is unironically a good idea. Me, Lea, and Red all going down today.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Openly calling for triple+ kills is so unbelievably anti-town.

the duality of man

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Regarding my date with MZero I generally thought he sounded fine, but wouldn't full clear him based upon anything he said. We discussed the possibility of who might have been a scum/scum pair from day 2 and my bet was on Ulti/Dumey and he settled on Sultan/Chris with a heavy dose of godfather fear on Chris.

Lopen posted...

I think it'd be Ulti or Dumey if Chris is town but yeah if we get at least one scum here the game is very winnable

Kirby321 posted...

That's incredible. When Red asked me who to scan if he somehow ended up being alive, I also told him Ulti/Dumey.

Man there was a lot of Ulti/Dumey going on Day 3

SirChris posted...

Ulti is one of the few people not annoying me, and my book of tells means that Ulti is probably scum for this.

*eyes emoji*