Board 8 > Dead by Daylight Mafia Topic 2: the month with Friday the 13th

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Forceful_Dragon
10/30/23 11:57:59 PM
#101:


Crescent-Moon posted...
What I saw was someone who isn't town vanilla asking what a town vanilla might be called.

Not remotely.

Traits will be called any number of things and I know from my own trait/s that they could include strange things like "cheerful" that don't remotely correspond with a mafia role and only provide a flavor descriptor.

But YOU are the one who didn't seem to "get it" so I was trying to get an understanding of YOUR thoughts about traits without abilities.

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~C~ FD
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Crescent-Moon
10/30/23 11:59:53 PM
#102:


Maybe if my role PM had some unnecessary adjective in it I would've recognized it as a trait. I can only go based on what I know.

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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 12:00:03 AM
#103:


Crescent-Moon posted...
I feel like we just wasted an most of a page for the sole purpose of outing two people as "Definitely not town vanilla" based on a host trying to be too cute.

I mean I guess it could've been worse.

You claimed power completely unprompted. I had such a strong assumption that you fell into the 'functionally vanilla' camp that I might actually have whiplash now.

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~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:00:45 AM
#104:


Forceful_Dragon posted...
You claimed power completely unprompted. I had such a strong assumption that you fell into the 'functionally vanilla' camp that I might actually have whiplash now.
I thought I was obviously claiming power the moment I gave my answer.

---
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:01:31 AM
#105:


Oh and I'll guarantee you 100% that Ulti has had me pegged as power for at least the last several hours.

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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 12:04:53 AM
#106:


I don't care about what ulti has anyone pegged as. He's been tripping over himself to call everyone confirmed town. The only thing he hasn't done yet is call himself scum a dozen times or he'd be an exact copy of himself last game.

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~C~ FD
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:05:35 AM
#107:


Also you tell me how I'm supposed to know what a vanilla PM is supposed to look like when I'm not vanilla and have absolutely zero random descriptors of any sort in my role.

---
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:07:13 AM
#108:


It actually boggles me that you could think I was vanilla even after my answer was basically "I have absolutely no idea what a vanilla PM might look like"

---
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 12:12:08 AM
#109:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Also you tell me how I'm supposed to know what a vanilla PM is supposed to look like when I'm not vanilla and have absolutely zero random descriptors of any sort in my role.

Hypothetically you get told you are

Xxxx, solo queue ambivalent (single trait)
Or
Xxxx, solo queue baker (single trait)
Or
Xxxx, solo queue ambivalent baker (dual trait)

Followed by a descriptor of what it means to be ambivalent or a baker or both.

And then told by host that you're role is 'ambivalent' or 'baker' or 'ambivalent baker' and you mistakenly make the impression that it was just a renamed role.

Rather than a series of renamed roles that we have 1-3 of

But that could have you, a functional vanilla' convinced that the trait was nothing more than a renamed role.

---
~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 12:13:49 AM
#110:


Crescent-Moon posted...
It actually boggles me that you could think I was vanilla even after my answer was basically "I have absolutely no idea what a vanilla PM might look like"

You only said that after calling yourself power.

I no longer believed you were functionally vanilla at that point.

---
~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:15:37 AM
#111:


Forceful_Dragon posted...
You only said that after calling yourself power.

I no longer believed you were functionally vanilla at that point.
I said that before actually.

Then I realized what I said removed even the faintest shadow of a doubt that I was power and just let it be out there.

---
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:16:32 AM
#112:


Forceful_Dragon posted...
Hypothetically you get told you are

Xxxx, solo queue ambivalent (single trait)
Or
Xxxx, solo queue baker (single trait)
Or
Xxxx, solo queue ambivalent baker (dual trait)

Followed by a descriptor of what it means to be ambivalent or a baker or both.

And then told by host that you're role is 'ambivalent' or 'baker' or 'ambivalent baker' and you mistakenly make the impression that it was just a renamed role.

Rather than a series of renamed roles that we have 1-3 of

But that could have you, a functional vanilla' convinced that the trait was nothing more than a renamed role.
How the hell am I supposed to know or even assume about ambivalent bakers would be a thing?

---
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 12:18:42 AM
#113:


Crescent-Moon posted...
I said that before actually.

Then I realized what I said removed even the faintest shadow of a doubt that I was power and just let it be out there.

Where? I don't see it.

---
~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:18:45 AM
#114:


Basically, you're projecting knowledge you claim to have onto someone who doesn't have that knowledge and asking why they didn't make some bizarre claim they would've had no functional reason to even conceive as a concept.

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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:19:33 AM
#115:


Forceful_Dragon posted...
Where? I don't see it.
Post 80 I virtually outright claimed I wasn't vanilla and post 81 I cleared it up because the cat was definitely out of the bag at that point.

---
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 12:20:48 AM
#116:


Crescent-Moon posted...
How the hell am I supposed to know or even assume about ambivalent bakers would be a thing?

I didn't say that you did. In theory you would have had your own version of whatever personal traits matched your flavor.

I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't have known, only what situation I believed you may have been in until you claimed power

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~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 12:23:15 AM
#117:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Post 80 I virtually outright claimed I wasn't vanilla and post 81 I cleared it up because the cat was definitely out of the bag at that point.

You must mean 90 and 91.

And I agree that was you claiming power. But you went on to say you didn't understand why I thought you might have been functionally vanilla after that point when I never thought you were functionally vanilla after that point, only before.

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~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:24:00 AM
#118:


Forceful_Dragon posted...
I didn't say that you did. In theory you would have had your own version of whatever personal traits matched your flavor.

I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't have known, only what situation I believed you may have been in until you claimed power
If I wasn't power the concept of "Traits" would've actually made sense to me. I would've perceived the meaningless part of my role as my "Trait".

The fact that all I have in my role IS a power without any descriptors is why I did not understand it was supposed to also be my "Trait".

---
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:24:20 AM
#119:


Forceful_Dragon posted...
You must mean 90 and 91.

And I agree that was you claiming power. But you went on to say you didn't understand why I thought you might have been functionally vanilla after that point when I never thought you were functionally vanilla after that point, only before.
I actually thought I had a longer pause between those posts than I did.

---
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 12:27:45 AM
#120:


Crescent-Moon posted...
If I wasn't power the concept of "Traits" would've actually made sense to me. I would've perceived the meaningless part of my role as my "Trait".

The fact that all I have in my role IS a power without any descriptors is why I did not understand it was supposed to also be my "Trait".

The same logic applies to a non power like ambivalent.

Again not trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't have known, just that from my perspective it was entirely consistent with how someone might have viewed a non power trait. I don't feel like you had outed yourself at all, y'know, until you did.

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~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:28:34 AM
#121:


Forceful_Dragon posted...
The same logic applies to a non power like ambivalent.

Again not trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't have known, just that from my perspective it was entirely consistent with how someone might have viewed a non power trait. I don't feel like you had outed yourself at all, y'know, until you did.

Crescent-Moon posted... Also you tell me how I'm supposed to know what a vanilla PM is supposed to look like when I'm not vanilla and have absolutely zero random descriptors of any sort in my role.


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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:33:05 AM
#122:


Also FD probably isn't scum because I have absolutely no idea what the hell scum would hope to gain by grilling me for this long on such a stupid topic.

---
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 12:35:59 AM
#123:


YOU are the one who said

Crescent-Moon posted...
It actually boggles me that you could think I was vanilla even after my answer was basically "I have absolutely no idea what a vanilla PM might look like"

When I no longer believed you could have been vanilla well before that point and ONLY thought you were before you went and claimed power out of nowhere to me.

You making that post is what prolonged this

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~C~ FD
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:38:17 AM
#124:


I claimed power the post before I made it official. I knew it was going to happen if I had to answer too many questions about Traits.

---
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:39:25 AM
#125:


Then again I think it happened when I hid my results from SBell and I wouldn't be surprised if it's why SBell unvoted me so fast come to think of it.

---
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:40:42 AM
#126:


Seriously though can someone else just post already this is getting kind of maddening.

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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 12:45:46 AM
#127:


Crescent-Moon posted...
I claimed power the post before I made it official. I knew it was going to happen if I had to answer too many questions about Traits.

Okay but I never called you vanilla AFTER you claimed power and that is when you seemed incredulous that I could have believed you were power.

I'm just reading through this conversation and there are multiple times where I don't understand what it is that you are reading into my posts.

You declared I'm not vanilla despite me not revealing anything of the sort.

You declared yourself power despite not needing to.

I explained that I didn't peg you as power at all (the opposite in fact) and you said you couldn't believe I thought you were vanilla after you claimed power even though the thing I had just said was an explanation of WHY I previously thought you were vanilla.

There is just a massive disconnect taking place.

---
~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:47:20 AM
#128:


Because it doesn't make sense to peg me as vanilla. As vanilla I understand my "Trait" is just a pointless flavor modifier and I don't turn it into a topic of discussion to begin with.

My mistake was ever making it a focus.

---
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:48:13 AM
#129:


We have now spent ALMOST FIFTY POSTS on this topic my lord.

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Leafeon13N
10/31/23 12:49:31 AM
#130:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Also FD probably isn't scum because I have absolutely no idea what the hell scum would hope to gain by grilling me for this long on such a stupid topic.
I'm trying to decipher some of FD here and a lot of failing.
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:52:33 AM
#131:


Leafeon13N posted...
I'm trying to decipher some of FD here and a lot of failing.
At this point I'm just kind of numb honestly

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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 12:52:39 AM
#132:


trying to decipher ME?

I pressed her on her understanding of traits which was very much in doubt and suddenly the most confusing can of worms was opened.

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~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 12:57:04 AM
#133:


As far as I'm concerned, "Traits" are still meaningless nonsense that should be ignored, and we should only be focusing on "Flavor" and "Role". Nothing about "Cheerful" or "Ambivalent Baker" or whatever nonsense was being spouted changed my mind on this.

---
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 1:00:34 AM
#134:


Crescent-Moon posted...
As far as I'm concerned, "Traits" are still meaningless nonsense that should be ignored, and we should only be focusing on "Flavor" and "Role". Nothing about "Cheerful" or "Ambivalent Baker" or whatever nonsense was being spouted changed my mind on this.

You are stuck on the idea of only having a single trait, in which case sure it's essentially just a renamed role.

But if someone has 3 traits that all do different things you can see what that's different right? Especially if some of them are just adjectives that don't provide passives or powers.

Your initial confusion does make more sense now from the context of someone who only has one and didn't put much stock into the OP line about everyone having 1-3.

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~C~ FD
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 1:01:26 AM
#135:


You claimed one of your "Traits" was "Cheerful"

That sounds like a completely meaningless additional word that doesn't actually add anything to me.

---
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 1:04:01 AM
#136:


Crescent-Moon posted...
You claimed one of your "Traits" was "Cheerful"

That sounds like a completely meaningless additional word that doesn't actually add anything to me.

I didn't specifically say that my trait is cheerful. Just that they can be things along those lines.

But if someone did have a trait along those lines and it's ALL they had would you call them a "cheerful" or a "vanilla"?

That was the point of my question earlier that somehow caused you to claim power.

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~C~ FD
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 1:07:32 AM
#137:


There was no possible way for me to answer that question without either immediately claiming power, or channeling Corrik and making up something ridiculous.

I've never done the latter!

---
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 1:10:31 AM
#138:


FD: "What would you call someone if none of their traits had passive or active powers?"

Crescent: "Yes, that's right, I'm power"

There was NO other way to answer that? We know from the OP post that traits come in 3 varieties:

-Flavor only.
-Passive Ability.
-Active Ability.

I asked you what you might say about someone who ONLY had the first type. I don't see how that forced you to claim anything.

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~C~ FD
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 1:11:52 AM
#139:


But we're literally not making any progress and I have to get ready for bed so I guess tonight was a bust.

---
~C~ FD
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 1:11:53 AM
#140:


How would I know what someone who only had the first type might look like? The best thing I could do is blatantly guess.

---
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 1:13:47 AM
#141:


Like this is basically "Why didn't you answer"

"I didn't have any information to answer with"

"But why didn't you answer"

"I didn't have any information to answer with and I don't pull shit out of my ass"

"But why didn't you answer"

This is basically our exchange.

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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 1:16:06 AM
#142:


that is not remotely accurate. I didn't ask you to show me an example role PM of someone who doesn't have passive/active powers.

All you had to say was "well I guess they'd be like a vanilla with a different name".

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~C~ FD
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 1:16:57 AM
#143:


Why would I make such an assumption?

---
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 1:17:41 AM
#144:


Also I'm now giggling which is probably a bad sign that I'm losing it weeee

---
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 1:21:45 AM
#145:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Why would I make such an assumption?

Why WOULDN'T you? It's not even an assumption. You know from the OP that there are 3 kinds of traits. You know that some of them don't have any power and just provide "pointless flavor".

Apparently you have a single trait and that single trait provides a power, but why does that lock you into only understanding the world through the view of "well I guess everyone just has a single trait and everyone has a power"? If you get cop in a game do you assume everyone else is a cop? No you understand that everyone has different roles/abilities and that some percentage of people have no abilities. And in this game it's explicitly stated that some traits fall into that category.

But whatever, I'm leaving to get ready for bed for real this time, I'm just TRYING to understand your point of view these past 90 minutes and failing miserably.

---
~C~ FD
http://i.imgur.com/dGDfxaw.png
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 1:27:47 AM
#146:


I had no reason to believe "Trait" was anything other than the host's attempt at being cute with his "Roles". I still have no reason to believe there are vanillas that don't have "vanilla" in their role PM.

---
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 1:29:24 AM
#147:


Leafeon13N posted...
I'm trying to decipher some of FD here and a lot of failing.
Hi Red please say more

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Leafeon13N
10/31/23 1:42:49 AM
#148:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Hi Red please say more
You two kind of blew up the topic to say not much.

Like, traits are roles, yes.

Beyond that trying to meta right now is...probably just going to be wrong.

The discussion is so long and pointless you are both probably town.

Or scum together but odds just say this is unlikely.

I dont understand picking this fight of all things.
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Forceful_Dragon
10/31/23 1:48:59 AM
#149:


I wasn't trying to pick any kind of fight.

I wanted to clarify that she understood traits.

Somehow that turned into her claiming and declaring that I can't possibly be vanilla. Both of those things ruin completely counter intuitive to my own logical understanding of the conversation.

Every attempt to straighten things out resolved nothing.

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~C~ FD
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Crescent-Moon
10/31/23 1:54:44 AM
#150:


Leafeon13N posted...
You two kind of blew up the topic to say not much.

Like, traits are roles, yes.

Beyond that trying to meta right now is...probably just going to be wrong.

The discussion is so long and pointless you are both probably town.

Or scum together but odds just say this is unlikely.

I dont understand picking this fight of all things.
My entire argument is it's pointless as a concept and should just be ignored to begin with. I don't have any interest in metaing them.

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