Poll of the Day > Kevin McCarthy voted out as Speaker of the House

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/10/03/kevin-mccarthy-speaker-live-updates/71044062007/

First time in history too.

Jack Nicholson keeps winning

They're either going to try to make Trump the Speaker, so they can assassinate Biden and Harris and make Trump president that way. Or they're just not going to elect a Speaker to grind the government into an indefinite halt.

Foolish move. McCarthy was no prize but the whole devil you know thing.

they are going to put in a right winger now

I know Marjorie Taylor Green said something about doing that (without the assassination part) but I don't know how they would intend to get Trump in the SotH position in the first place. Maybe it's just a crazy dilusiom thought up by MTG.

And I never liked McCarthy but the reason he was voted out seems sus.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



Yeah but since when do they care about rules?

papercup posted...

Yeah but since when do they care about rules?

They prefer people who break the rules.

papercup posted...

They're either going to try to make Trump the Speaker

Very unlikely he would get the job, even if he was interested.

Democrats would be unified in opposition, which means he could lose no more than four Republican votes in order to take the speakership. There are enough Republicans in swing districts that understand that Speaker Trump would be absolutely toxic for their electoral chances to sink any speakership bid.

I think even the more conservative-yet-strategic-minded Republicans would try and steer Trump away from his, because Trump being speaker over a fractious, dysfunctional House would kill his re-election bid. There's no way Trump could wrangle the current Republican caucus AND negotiate deals with the Democratic senate to pass bills (I'm honestly not sure there's anyone who can), so taking up the Speaker's gavel right now is political suicide.

The first time a speaker has been removed in US history is because *checks notes* McCarthy had the audacity to agree with the Democrats to not shut down the government.

This is the state of the GOP. Domestic terrorists.

Honestly, I never figured out why the Speaker of the House is such a big deal.

shadowsword87 posted...

Honestly, I never figured out why the Speaker of the House is such a big deal.

Speaker sets the agenda for the House; no bills can even come up for consideration without their say-so. They're arguably the single-most powerful officer in the country aside from the Senate Majority Leader and the President.

Conner4REAL posted...

Foolish move. McCarthy was no prize but the whole devil you know thing.

they are going to put in a right winger now

I agree. He was already rightwing and now they're just going to push for someone more extreme.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

The first time a speaker has been removed in US history is because *checks notes* McCarthy had the audacity to agree with the Democrats to not shut down the government.

This is the state of the GOP. Domestic terrorists.

I really don't know what the Dems that voted him out were thinking though. Just an opportunity for worse.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Huh, fair enough! He's definitely still an enemy and a hardcore Republican. Just worried someone worse will take his place.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Jim Jordan and Steve Scalise are the present frontrunners, both of whom I consider objectively worse. Nominees could change of course

actually they're all just shit. i guess it's just a shit trade in

ReturnOfFa posted...

I really don't know what the Dems that voted him out were thinking though. Just an opportunity for worse.

??? Why would democrats ever vote for him? He is not someone I would ever approve them voting for, and if he wanted democratic votes he should have given them some concessions like he gave the lunatics. If conservatives want democratic votes they need to put up someone democrats would be willing to vote for. Conservatives in the house are going to have to decide if they want to continue letting lunatics run the show or if they want to be sane.

Remember when it took 15 tries to vote him in in the first place lol

BlackScythe0 posted...

??? Why would democrats ever vote for him? He is not someone I would ever approve them voting for, and if he wanted democratic votes he should have given them some concessions like he gave the lunatics. If conservatives want democratic votes they need to put up someone democrats would be willing to vote for. Conservatives in the house are going to have to decide if they want to continue letting lunatics run the show or if they want to be sane.

they are going to decide to let lunatics run the show

ReturnOfFa posted...

I really don't know what the Dems that voted him out were thinking though. Just an opportunity for worse.

McCarthy said he would accept no offer from the ems to save him, so it kinda left them little choice. And it politically helps them.

ReturnOfFa posted...

I agree. He was already rightwing and now they're just going to push for someone more extreme.

I really don't know what the Dems that voted him out were thinking though. Just an opportunity for worse.

The dems that voted them out are completely in line with the GOP's current mission... total dysfunction.

It's great news really. Never interrupt your opponent when they're making a mistake. It's a breakaway from what we would have expected from dems 5 years ago, which would have been a tepid support for their opponents' existence.

I'm alright with being wrong on this one :)

Trump would never agree to be Speaker, they actually have work to do and he can't just golf all day.

Zareth posted...

Trump would never agree to be Speaker, they actually have work to do and he can't just golf all day.

Trump also seems to view the government as a big company with the President as the boss, so he would never take a role that, in his mind, would put him under Biden.

ReturnOfFa posted...

I really don't know what the Dems that voted him out were thinking though. Just an opportunity for worse.

He'd already broken several deals with the Democrats, he started this ridiculous "impeachment inquiry" that even the Republicans' own witnesses have admitted has not implicated the president in any wrongdoing, and he outright said he was refusing to offer them any concessions in return for their votes.

From a nakedly political perspective, there was no benefit to the Democrats for saving McCarthy. The more dysfunctional the Republicans behave, the better the Democrats' electoral prospects for next year. Them standing back and watching the Republicans devour each other is the smart move politically. I think it was Jeffries who commented, "This isn't our circus, and he's not our clown." If McCarthy had offered concessions to the Democrats in return for their votes (Ukraine funding, a suspension of the debt ceiling, etc.), then maybe it becomes more defensible for them to at least vote "present" and let the Republican caucus save him themselves. However, absent any benefit to them, they were smart to do what they did.

I'm not even certain the Democrats *could* have helped McCarthy, even if they wanted to. Bipartisanship is a dirty word these days, and any perception that McCarthy was beholden to the Democrats for saving his speakership would probably doom him in the Republican caucus just as readily as what actually happened.

And nothing of worth was lost.

I feel like this is perhaps a cautionary tale in reaching across the aisle because oftentimes those allies will turn around and slit your throat at the first opportunity. While it's a great way for the renegade republicans to establish their power, the move is painfully short-sighted

papercup posted...

They're either going to try to make Trump the Speaker, so they can assassinate Biden and Harris and make Trump president that way. Or they're just not going to elect a Speaker to grind the government into an indefinite halt.

I'll have some of what papercup is having.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

The first time a speaker has been removed in US history is because *checks notes* McCarthy had the audacity to agree with the Democrats to not shut down the government.

This is the state of the GOP. Domestic terrorists.

No, it's the state of... what was it, 4-8 Republicans? And likely from districts that aren't conventionally competitive, which means the wackiest people can get elected -- much like how Alexandria OC got elected by Dems despite being fringe, since the district was so solidly blue that a primary win decides who takes office.

ReturnOfFa posted...

I really don't know what the Dems that voted him out were thinking though. Just an opportunity for worse.

Political advantage, for starters. The ouster is mostly upside for them, especially when they're running for office and can point to chaos in the GOP, even if they actively participated in it.

darkknight109 posted...

Speaker sets the agenda for the House; no bills can even come up for consideration without their say-so. They're arguably the single-most powerful officer in the country aside from the Senate Majority Leader and the President.

Pretty much this. People make a big deal about filibusters, but this is far bigger.

Count_Drachma posted...

I feel like this is perhaps a cautionary tale in reaching across the aisle

?

It wasn't reaching across the aisle that cost McCarthy his job, it was the GOP as a whole allowing a small handful of hard-right Trump-backing loonies to hold the entire GOP hostage. If the rest of the GOP weren't spineless cowards, they'd take Gaetz and Co to task for being miserable shitheads and figure out a way to root them out and dispose of them, but unfortunately the entire party is beholden to Trump's voters so they're in a stalemate.

This is why more levelheaded moderates are walking into the sunset (Joe Walsh, Mitt Romney), they know the party is fucked until Trump's influence is flushed out. They know they can't get shit done with all this dysfunction. What else are they supposed to do? Flip parties?

Count_Drachma posted...

I feel like this is perhaps a cautionary tale in reaching across the aisle because oftentimes those allies will turn around and slit your throat at the first opportunity.

McCarthy could *easily* have gotten the Democrats to save his job. What he did for the past nine months is court the lunatic fringe of the Republican party, constantly giving into their demands in an attempt to placate them, then when he inevitably discovered he couldn't control them, he asked Democrats to save the Republican party from itself, but offered them nothing in return. He gave Democrats no reason to step in on his behalf; accordingly, they didn't.

The Democrats are the minority party - it is not up to them to be babysitters when the Republican caucus turns into a circus. Had McCarthy governed more from the centre and showed more of a willingness to work with Democrats and not do dumb shit like opening up an "impeachment inquiry" that even some of the quackiest Republican law experts are saying amounts to nothing or breaking his agreements with... well, everyone, he might still have his gavel today. But ultimately, if you spend your days pandering to the hard right and say, on the record, that you're offering the other side zero concessions to work with you, don't be surprised when they decline to take a bullet for you.

Exactly. If anything, it's a cautionary tale about not reaching across the aisle, and only doing so when it was too late and you'd already dug your own fucking grave

BlackScythe0 posted...

?

Its Zeus. He's trying to do what every rightwing nutjob is trying to do right now, fit a square block in a triangle hole by blaming the Democrats for the right's massive fuckup per usual.

Count_Drachma posted...

I feel like this is perhaps a cautionary tale in reaching across the aisle because oftentimes those allies will turn around and slit your throat at the first opportunity. While it's a great way for the renegade republicans to establish their power, the move is painfully short-sighted

I'll have some of what papercup is having.

No, it's the state of... what was it, 4-8 Republicans? And likely from districts that aren't conventionally competitive, which means the wackiest people can get elected -- much like how Alexandria OC got elected by Dems despite being fringe, since the district was so solidly blue that a primary win decides who takes office.

Political advantage, for starters. The ouster is mostly upside for them, especially when they're running for office and can point to chaos in the GOP, even if they actively participated in it.

Pretty much this. People make a big deal about filibusters, but this is far bigger.

Actually Speaker of the House is third in line if something happens to either Biden or Harris; so it is a really BIG deal who's put in charge. That's why Trump is so willing to support Jim Jordan because he wants someone in a position within the government to give Biden as much grief as possible in order to get Trump back into office as president; after which he'll give Jordan "the shaft" just like he's done to other supporters.

Shinebolt posted...

Its Zeus. He's trying to do what every rightwing nutjob is trying to do right now, fit a square block in a triangle hole by blaming the Democrats for the right's massive fuckup per usual.

Honestly at the time I posted that I had no clue what he was saying. Seeing other posts it seems like he might have said it because he passed a bill to keep the government operating and he would prefer the government not operate.

Even if I know Zeus always chooses the worst possible take he can view any possible situation, sometimes his takes are so bad I genuinely don't understand what he's trying to convey because it's so detached from reality. The idea that McCarthy's flaw was bipartisanship is insane.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Like they would even enforce that rule. They would make trump an exception because it's a "false" indictment.

I don't rmember stuff...

What does the Speaker do?

Lokarin posted...

I don't rmember stuff...

What does the Speaker do?

Preside over meetings of the House of Representatives, setting a voting agenda, appointing and overseeing officers and staff, recognizing speakers on the House floor, directing issues to committees, and advising the President.

So he's a referee

Lokarin posted...

So he's a referee

If referees were allowed to rewrite the rules of a sport arbitrarily in the middle of the game and threaten to bankrupt everyone who came out to watch. Then sure, yeah.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

If referees were allowed to rewrite the rules of a sport arbitrarily in the middle of the game and threaten to bankrupt everyone who came out to watch. Then sure, yeah.

OH!

So, Buddy Bell

Lokarin posted...

So he's a referee

Unless a ref ruling for only one side is a common thing.

Count_Drachma posted...

I feel like this is perhaps a cautionary tale in reaching across the aisle

When the post opens with "look it's ackshually a bad thing when parties work together," you know you're in for a take that's more unhinged than a sliding door.

Far-Queue posted...

Exactly. If anything, it's a cautionary tale about not reaching across the aisle, and only doing so when it was too late and you'd already dug your own fucking grave

Well it's more that the GOP is now two camps you are either a Trump supporter or you are not. The GOP is actually having more infighting than it ever did in the past thanks to Trump. So until Trump takes steps away from politics or something else drastic happens we will see shit like this.

Trump's goal seems to be turn the GOP into the GOTP for at least the next 20-30 years. Even if he loses the presidency this year or can't run, it seems the GOP will still be divided into these two camps.

No former GOP president has had this level of power over the party as far as I know.

Monopoman posted...

Well it's more that the GOP is now two camps you are either a Trump supporter or you are not. The GOP is actually having more infighting than it ever did in the past thanks to Trump, so until Trump takes steps away from politics, or something else drastic happens we will see shit like this.

Trump's goal seems to be turn the GOP into the GOTP for at least the next 20-30 years. Even if he loses the presidency this year or can't run, it seems the GOP will still be divided into these two camps.

No former GOP president has had this level of power over the party as far as I know.

If he loses this time he will be too old to run again so it won't matter. He would be 81 years old. No one is going to vote for an 81 year to be president. He would die before making his first decision. Hell (hah, that's funny cuz that's where he's going), he would die before taking the oath.

Arcturusisnow posted...

No one is going to vote for an 81 year to be president.

If you could vote for corpses the MAGA crowd would

Arcturusisnow posted...

If he loses this time he will be too old to run again so it won't matter. He would be 81 years old. No one is going to vote for an 81 year to be president. He would die before making his first decision. Hell (hah, that's funny cuz that's where he's going), he would die before taking the oath.

He will probably pull out the old have his son run then try to utilize his son to get whatever he wants accomplished done. Again Trump wants the same things guys like Kim Jong Un have indefinite power for his family for the rest of time. If Kim Jong Un dies tomorrow another one would rise to take his place, until that family as a whole loses power.

The only difference here is being President for more than 8 years takes a lot of work due to the laws we have.