Current Events > How come Truman didnt send a vid of the bomb being detonated in a remote area?

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WalkingLobsters
08/06/23 4:34:09 PM
#1:


how come he didnt even tell the Japanese, hey if you dont surrender were going to systematically genocide your cities until you do

why did he just surprise drop it on them?

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MarthGoomba
08/06/23 4:35:03 PM
#2:


Because he was a racist shitbag

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MICHALECOLE
08/06/23 4:35:10 PM
#3:


Surprise mother fucker, genocide
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WalkingLobsters
08/06/23 4:35:12 PM
#4:


He literally could have told them to evacuate the cities and then drop a bomb on them if he wanted to make a point without the loss of innocent human life

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sfcalimari
08/06/23 4:36:29 PM
#5:


Remember to like and subscribe!

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Foppe
08/06/23 4:38:48 PM
#6:


USA did drop leaflets, telling them to evacuate...

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Hexenherz
08/06/23 4:39:11 PM
#7:


WalkingLobsters posted...
He literally could have told them to evacuate the cities and then drop a bomb on them if he wanted to make a point without the loss of innocent human life
They did drop leaflets in cities prior to bombing

https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/key-documents/warning-leaflets/

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Ivynn
08/06/23 4:40:17 PM
#8:


Why didn't he send them an email smh

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hexa
08/06/23 4:40:41 PM
#9:


many of the nuclear scientists wanted to do a demonstration bombing, not hitting anyone, instead of hitting a city

Truman decided to hit 2 cities

Actually, the nuclear bombs did not end the war between the USA and Japan. The Japanese wanted to continue the war, even after both nuclear bombs. It was not until the Soviet Union declared war on Japan, that Emperor Hirohito of Japan decided to surrender
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K181
08/06/23 4:41:46 PM
#10:


They did warn the Japanese. The Japanese government chose not to warn their civilians.

It was also new tech, there was no guarantee that it wouldn't have failed, making a demonstration or direct advanced warning potentially disastrous had it gone wrong.

There was also divided mistrust on if Japan was close to surrender or not. Some thought they were close, but others couldn't get over the brutal defense of Okinawa, Iwo Jima, and Manila out of their heads and couldn't believe that that military was really ready to stand down.

Also, anyone saying that he did it because he was racist are really ignoring the fact that we absolutely would've had no problem nuking Germany at that time. We were flattening cities left and right in Germany and Japan already, the nuke was just a much more efficient means of doing so (with the lack of understanding that they had regarding fallout, I mean). Traditional bombing of Tokyo killed more and the bombing of Dresden killed almost as many as a nuke.

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bfslick50
08/06/23 4:51:35 PM
#11:


K181 posted...
It was also new tech, there was no guarantee that it wouldn't have failed, making a demonstration or direct advanced warning potentially disastrous had it gone wrong.

How is a failed bombing over a demonstration spot worse than a failed bombing over the actual target?

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K181
08/06/23 4:55:22 PM
#12:


bfslick50 posted...
How is a failed bombing over a demonstration spot worse than a failed bombing over the actual target?

Because the bomb would blow up regardless, but that doesn't mean that the fission reaction couldn't have failed. The difference is if that had happened during an attack it would've just been a random singular bomb and a waste of money versus it failing during a warned and attention-drawn-to demonstration it would've resulted in the Japanese thinking that the US was full of shit and blatantly bluffing.

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WalkingLobsters
08/06/23 4:55:52 PM
#13:


Hexenherz posted...
They did drop leaflets in cities prior to bombing

https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/key-documents/warning-leaflets/
From your article

"The historical record is unclear, but it seems as though these leaflets did not make it to Nagasaki until after it, too, had been hit by an atomic bomb"

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WalkingLobsters
08/06/23 4:57:35 PM
#14:


K181 posted...
Because the bomb would blow up regardless, but that doesn't mean that the fission reaction couldn't have failed. The difference is if that had happened during an attack it would've just been a random singular bomb and a waste of money versus it failing during a warned and attention-drawn-to demonstration it would've resulted in the Japanese thinking that the US was full of shit and blatantly bluffing.
ok and?

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K181
08/06/23 5:00:16 PM
#15:


WalkingLobsters posted...
ok and?

You're asking why we didn't do a demonstration. I gave you a reason, there was a risk of it failing and resulting in Japan not taking threats designed to get them to surrender seriously.

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WalkingLobsters
08/06/23 5:16:01 PM
#16:


K181 posted...
You're asking why we didn't do a demonstration. I gave you a reason, there was a risk of it failing and resulting in Japan not taking threats designed to get them to surrender seriously.
You do realize even if the demonstration failed USA could still bomb the fuck out of them right? Which they did anyways so they should have attempted a demonstration

Furthermore, it wouldn't have failed. You really think the USA attempted to bomb hiroshima and nagasaki without a near 99.99% chance of success? Are you serious?

if uncertainty were an issue they wouldn't have even tried to bomb them in the first place

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rexcrk
08/06/23 5:17:20 PM
#17:


WalkingLobsters posted...
how come he didnt even tell the Japanese, hey if you dont surrender were going to systematically genocide your cities until you do

why did he just surprise drop it on them?
Because wheres the fun in ruining the surprise?
/s

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Alteres
08/06/23 5:17:22 PM
#18:


WalkingLobsters posted...
You do realize even if the demonstration failed USA could still bomb the fuck out of them right? Which they did anyways so they should have attempted a demonstration

Furthermore, it wouldn't have failed. You really think the USA attempted to bomb hiroshima and nagasaki without a near 99.99% chance of success? Are you serious?

if uncertainty were an issue they wouldn't have even tried to bomb them in the first place
How many nukes did the US have?

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K181
08/06/23 5:24:17 PM
#19:


WalkingLobsters posted...
You do realize even if the demonstration failed USA could still bomb the fuck out of them right? Which they did anyways so they should have attempted a demonstration

Furthermore, it wouldn't have failed. You really think the USA attempted to bomb hiroshima and nagasaki without a near 99.99% chance of success? Are you serious?

if uncertainty were an issue they wouldn't have even tried to bomb them in the first place

The point of the nuke threat was to drive home how much easier it would be for the US to keep devastating them. As stated, minus the fallout, a nuke was just much more efficient from the American perspective, but individual bomber raids are much more sustainable than thousand bomber raids. That was the gravity of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Japanese knew we could just keep destroying cities without any real effort beyond the cost of building bombs after that point.

And the risk of failure was still there, but the downsides to a failed bombing and a failed demonstration aren't even remotely comparable. Duds and fizzles were and are possible in any bomb, nuclear or otherwise, even to this day.

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Pogo_Marimo
08/06/23 5:24:41 PM
#20:


Oh boy I can't wait for people who have done 30-60 minutes of research on their side of the argument on an excruciatingly complex subject to share their opinion sans context and evidence.

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K181
08/06/23 5:25:15 PM
#21:


Alteres posted...
How many nukes did the US have?

We had zero immediately after Nagasaki, but bluffed the Japanese into thinking we immediately had more.

I think we had a dozen by the end of 1945.

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Trumble
08/06/23 5:26:34 PM
#22:


hexa posted...
many of the nuclear scientists wanted to do a demonstration bombing, not hitting anyone, instead of hitting a city

Truman decided to hit 2 cities

Actually, the nuclear bombs did not end the war between the USA and Japan. The Japanese wanted to continue the war, even after both nuclear bombs. It was not until the Soviet Union declared war on Japan, that Emperor Hirohito of Japan decided to surrender
The decision to surrender was made after the Nagasaki bombing happened, but before the officials making the decision were aware that it had happened. The Soviets abandoning neutrality was likely the deciding factor. Or if it really was the nukes, then it was Hiroshima alone.

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Alteres
08/06/23 5:35:51 PM
#23:


K181 posted...
We had zero immediately after Nagasaki, but bluffed the Japanese into thinking we immediately had more.

I think we had a dozen by the end of 1945.
I know.

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Trumble
08/06/23 6:21:10 PM
#24:


K181 posted...
We had zero immediately after Nagasaki, but bluffed the Japanese into thinking we immediately had more.

I think we had a dozen by the end of 1945.
The footnote here is that another one was only a couple of weeks away, not months or years. They basically expected to be able to produce 3 each month if they needed to.

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LaLeyenda
08/06/23 6:49:11 PM
#25:


WalkingLobsters posted...
how come he didnt even tell the Japanese, hey if you dont surrender were going to systematically genocide your cities until you do

why did he just surprise drop it on them?
He wanted to let the Japanese know what happens when you (Japan) failed to get the message of declaration of war delivered, allowing Japan to fuck around with Pearl Harbor.

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UnfairRepresent
08/06/23 6:51:56 PM
#26:


LaLeyenda posted...
He wanted to let the Japanese know what happens when you (Japan) failed to get the message of declaration of war delivered, allowing Japan to fuck around with Pearl Harbor.

Speaking of Pearl Harbour, Japan did the same thing

They warned Pearl Harbor to evacuate.... After they already bombed it.

War is hell

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Doe
08/06/23 6:58:05 PM
#27:


Hexenherz posted...
They did drop leaflets in cities prior to bombing

https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/key-documents/warning-leaflets/
Your link says the leaflets did not warn of the atom bomb in the case of hiroshima and ones with atom bomb depictions did not come until after Nagasaki

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Inohira
08/06/23 7:01:14 PM
#28:


The US is a real bitch made country on this issue honestly.

Drops nukes without warning but if they even suspect you might be making your own launches a full scale invasion.

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lilORANG
08/06/23 7:02:12 PM
#29:


He did warn them. And then after he blew up Hiroshima he warned them again and for whatever reason Japan didn't believe he'd do it again.

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Priere
08/06/23 7:03:37 PM
#30:


Every major city should have been on high alert that they could get rekt at any moment.

Considering we were incinerating entire cities for MONTHS up to that point.

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bfslick50
08/06/23 8:18:46 PM
#31:


K181 posted...
The point of the nuke threat was to drive home how much easier it would be for the US to keep devastating them. As stated, minus the fallout, a nuke was just much more efficient from the American perspective, but individual bomber raids are much more sustainable than thousand bomber raids. That was the gravity of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Japanese knew we could just keep destroying cities without any real effort beyond the cost of building bombs after that point.

But they were expecting us to keep destroying cities whether it took effort or not. Thats not a change from their perspective. The charge was the Soviet declaration of war.

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[deleted]
08/08/23 11:02:45 AM
#56:


[deleted]
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FortuneCookie
08/08/23 12:06:12 PM
#32:


He was a bad person. He tested the bombs on servicemen under the guise that they were observing a test on goats. Some of the survivors tried suing in the 1980s, but they were denied.
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DeadBankerDream
08/08/23 12:11:29 PM
#33:


why did he need to drop two of them? Why wasnt one enough?

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Doe
08/08/23 12:16:18 PM
#34:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/6/5/AAcZIZAAEvEV.jpg

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refmon
08/08/23 12:18:48 PM
#35:


lilORANG posted...
He did warn them. And then after he blew up Hiroshima he warned them again and for whatever reason Japan didn't believe he'd do it again.



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DeadBankerDream
08/08/23 12:25:05 PM
#36:


From my understanding, thr Japanese military dictatorship deemed it unlikely that the US had more than one bomb and viewed Horoshima as their last ditch before an invasion.

Though that might be war mythology.

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itachi15243
08/08/23 12:27:36 PM
#37:


Not only did he warn the leadership, both towns had tons of paper pamphlets urgering civilians to evacuate, explaining how devastating the new bomb was dropped on them in the days prior to the Bombs.

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itcheyness
08/08/23 12:27:47 PM
#38:


DeadBankerDream posted...
From my understanding, thr Japanese military dictatorship deemed it unlikely that the US had more than one bomb and viewed Horoshima as their last ditch before an invasion.

Though that might be war mythology.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/4/AAN_ZGAAEvEe.jpg

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Doe
08/08/23 12:31:26 PM
#39:


itcheyness posted...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/7/4/AAN_ZGAAEvEe.jpg
You post this meme but after nagasaki the US was literally out of bombs. and each bomb had a different delivery method so even the US wasn't sure it would work

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DeadBankerDream
08/08/23 12:34:41 PM
#40:


they were out of bombs at that moment, but they almost had another ready by the time of the surrender.

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MarcoRubio
08/08/23 12:51:29 PM
#41:


Lol the bombs weren't for Japan. They were to show Stalin what we could do, Japan was just the easy target. They were going to surrender.

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itcheyness
08/08/23 12:53:03 PM
#42:


Doe posted...
You post this meme but after nagasaki the US was literally out of bombs. and each bomb had a different delivery method so even the US wasn't sure it would work
Yes, but the Japanese didn't know that.

All they knew was that the US demonstrated that they didn't just have one.

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Doe
08/08/23 12:58:44 PM
#43:


itcheyness posted...
Yes, but the Japanese didn't know that.

All they knew was that the US demonstrated that they didn't just have one.
What I'm saying is that meme acts like it was totally preposterous and absurd of the Japanese to believe there were a limited number of bombs, when that was a mostly accurate educated guess.

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Foppe
08/08/23 12:59:22 PM
#44:


Tsutomu Yamaguchi survived Hiroshima.
He went to Nagasaki, and nobody believed him.
He survived that nuke as well.

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El_Marsh
08/08/23 12:59:41 PM
#45:


Us or them

Fuck them


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#46
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buddhamonster
08/08/23 1:00:12 PM
#47:


Doe posted...
You post this meme but after nagasaki the US was literally out of bombs. and each bomb had a different delivery method so even the US wasn't sure it would work
They were out of atomic bombs.

Their napalm and high explosives were still working just fine though. Point in case, the conventional fire bombing of Japanese cities continued right on even after the atomic bombs were dropped. The Americans continued to level any city they wanted to with impunity. Just as they had been doing for months to that point.

It's not like Japan is sitting there contemplating the ability of the America strategic bombers to destroy their country. It's not like the they could have called their bluff and avoided annihilation. They were well and truly fucked, and the atomic bombs had very little to do with that situation...


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bIuerain
08/08/23 1:02:28 PM
#48:


Japan was already planning to surrender... to the Soviet Union. Truman dropped those bombs to hasten Japanese surrender on terms favorable to America.

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Doe
08/08/23 1:03:01 PM
#49:


buddhamonster posted...
Their napalm and high explosives were still working just fine though. Point in case, the conventional fire bombing of Japanese cities continued right on even after the atomic bombs were dropped. The Americans continued to level any city they wanted to with impunity. Just as they had been doing for months to that point.

It's not like Japan is sitting there contemplating the ability of the America strategic bombers to destroy their country. It's not like the they could have called their bluff and avoided annihilation. They were well and truly fucked, and the atomic bombs had very little to do with that situation...
Woosh

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