Board 8 > Final Fantasy XVI (Pt 2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I GOT MORE TO SAY

You can think the sidequests are pointless. You can think the sidequests are boring. You can hate anything you want about the sidequests. But a simple "i want the game to have less content" i dont understand.

I dont like this notion, because you have no idea what a side quest will entail UNTIL you go through all of it. I can't knowingly go "Oh this one is not going to appeal to me, better skip this one" in a brand new game. Not only that, but it could unlock a chain where the last quest is incredible.

https://twitter.com/shineget64/status/1680040373911969794

Still the best and corniest line in the entire series

SHINE_GET_64 posted...

Still the best and corniest line in the entire series

Worst birthday ever.

Theres an established standard for side quests. Witcher 3 set the bar for a while there. Almost every side quest in that game expanded the lore in meaningful ways, and had great rewards. Fromsoft games are probably the gold standard these days.

FF16s are fine. Theres some truly great ones, and theres tedious mmo trash. I dont regret doing them overall. If anything, they deserve praise for giving the important ones a different symbol, ala FF14.

The best sidequests didn't have a +, though.

I'd actually say the + sidequests were more likely to be LESS interesting on the whole.

Too many sidequests at once can definitely be a pacing issue if you're not in the mood, especially if it's not clear whether they're time-limited

It's the exclamation marks, I'm convinced. They make them feel more like chores than actual game.

If Otto had just said, Chrono Trigger style, "a bunch of stuff is going down in the towns" and they started when you arrived, they would feel more natural. Or if a sidequest was a reward for talking to an NPC, like in the old days.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

The best sidequests didn't have a +, though.

I'd actually say the + sidequests were more likely to be LESS interesting on the whole.

Yeah I thought the + sidequests were pretty boring. They were just collecting plants for supplies or things for a bigger bag or similar.

They werent as interesting character-wise as most of the regular side quests.

I think it would actually explain a lot if the people who decided to drop everything besides + sidequests were the ones who came out the other end with a lower opinion of them!

I'd prefer if they took the approach to sidequests that something like elden ring has where if you find it and do it then great but the game isn't gonna hold your hand at all. I agree that seeing the exclamation points makes it feel more like a chore

One of my biggest problems with the sidequests is how the game seemed to drop a shit ton of them more and more as the game went on.

Right before the last mission (this is NON SPOILER I promise), the characters were like "okay the villain is over there right? We better waste no time going to beat them up!" and then the game was like "okay but first, wrap up every supporting character's side story and watch these inspiring cutscenes at the end of each one where they really show their resolve!"

Maybe some of those sidequests could've been spread out a bit more and it would've felt both more natural and less tedious.

Double post but

I eventually started skipping the dialogue in the sidequests when I could tell it was going to be one of the cookie cutter ones. They kind of followed a formula:

NPC: "Hey Clive, we've got a problem"
Clive: "Okay what's the problem"
*NPC says the problem, and hey look at that it's gonna involve finding an item or fighting a monster or both*
Clive: "Okay I'll help, what should we do"
*NPC and Clive have a conversation about strategy, most of which doesn't really matter because I'm going to follow the big waypoint on my screen and fight a monster or pick up an item, the exact same way I've done it for the rest of the game*

Sometimes that strategy section of the conversation would also be like "hey Clive, we should go now!" and Clive would be like "no, it's too dangerous, you'll need to go around the flank and meet with me later instead of now" and I'm thinking.... I'm going to have the same fight with whatever monster I'm gonna need to kill regardless of how this conversation goes, can we speed this up?

And then when the sidequest is over there's an exposition dump about that NPC

This is filler and I'd rather this kind of content not be so prevalent in a game, regardless of whether it's optional content or not

Triple post but

Overall I liked the game quite a bit... sidequests and messy ending aside, the combat is pretty stellar, and the main story was overall good. Not to mention the (usually) excellent voice acting performances, including some characters that don't get too much screen time like the Dame, which really helped to sell the story - Ralph Ineson doing Cid's VA in particular was just incredible.

No major complaints on the music or graphics either

It's a flawed game but a good game!

Tag

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I think it would actually explain a lot if the people who decided to drop everything besides + sidequests were the ones who came out the other end with a lower opinion of them!

Probably but the issue is the game does not give you a good indication on which ones have developed story and which ones are the grindy filler. Most games these days do make a distinction! Even FF14 does, the sidequest chains that are fleshed out side stories have little story arts. I also think you get a really bad impression of sidequests since all the pre-timeskip ones are nothing (and they have to be when the story hasn't really kicked off yet!).

The other issue I have is just that the MMO-style quest format is extremely grating in this game, the kind of talk to this person, move somewhere else talk again, go fight some mobs, talk to a person two more times, it just takes too long to get around in this game. I don't have my flying mount, you know? And because this type of quest design is all over the main story, I simply had enough of it.

Could have had some optional action stages instead of so many fetch quests. Like the ruins in The Dim north of Eastpool are right there, you see that huge tower from everywhere in Rosaria, Clive even comments on the locked door, and no, it's not a secret dungeon.

Maybe more "overworld" action stages too, cus the only ones were Greatwood and Kingsfall.

This game desperately needs more enemy variety.

Solioxrz362 posted...

One of my biggest problems with the sidequests is how the game seemed to drop a shit ton of them more and more as the game went on.

Right before the last mission (this is NON SPOILER I promise), the characters were like "okay the villain is over there right? We better waste no time going to beat them up!" and then the game was like "okay but first, wrap up every supporting character's side story and watch these inspiring cutscenes at the end of each one where they really show their resolve!"

Maybe some of those sidequests could've been spread out a bit more and it would've felt both more natural and less tedious.

Perfect post

Solioxrz362 posted...

One of my biggest problems with the sidequests is how the game seemed to drop a shit ton of them more and more as the game went on.

Right before the last mission (this is NON SPOILER I promise), the characters were like "okay the villain is over there right? We better waste no time going to beat them up!" and then the game was like "okay but first, wrap up every supporting character's side story and watch these inspiring cutscenes at the end of each one where they really show their resolve!"

Maybe some of those sidequests could've been spread out a bit more and it would've felt both more natural and less tedious.

Its entirely this. Side quests were perfect up till bahamut. Then suddenly you walk 50 feet and more pop up, but you still want to do them because the good ones were so good

but they arent so good. They are boring and bad

BUT MAYBE THE NEXT ONE WILL BE GOOD

Side quests can be a bummer for all reasons stated above along with the lack of a worthwhile material reward, but I would again like to reiterate that there lack is mini games is depressing. Clive wants a card game to play with his mates at the hideaway, dammit. Ambrosia has their own flock and wants you to help it grow. The Dame's brothel needs Clive to help run it and become the #1 brothel in Valisthea by recruiting and training courtesans and helping that one young but ambitious girl overcome her foibles to become The Veil's Ace Courtesans and help that overconfident courtesan from the rival brothel realize that you also need heart to succeed.

I don't care if mini games would potentially clash in tone. I think they are an excellent tool for world building and a fun change of pace.

My stance on side-quests - for the past decade maybe, I've stopped doing many side-quests in games after Ubisoft-style games pretty much turned me off them for good with how incredibly boring and monotonous they are. However, since I was loving this game so much and there didn't SEEM to be many at first, I sort of made it a mission to do every one for once. And really, compared to other games, these were all kind of interesting in some sort of way and I don't regret doing them at all. I felt they all at least added to the lore and story of the game in some way.

ZaziGuado posted...

Side quests can be a bummer for all reasons stated above along with the lack of a worthwhile material reward, but I would again like to reiterate that there lack is mini games is depressing. Clive wants a card game to play with his mates at the hideaway, dammit. Ambrosia has their own flock and wants you to help it grow. The Dame's brothel needs Clive to help run it and become the #1 brothel in Valisthea by recruiting and training courtesans and helping that one young but ambitious girl overcome her foibles to become The Veil's Ace Courtesans and help that overconfident courtesan from the rival brothel realize that you also need heart to succeed.

I don't care if mini games would potentially clash in tone. I think they are an excellent tool for world building and a fun change of pace.

keep mini-games out of my RPGs imo

There has never been a good Final Fantasy mini game. Not even in XIV.

Will not be gaslit by Triple Triad fans.

Mahjong doesn't count.

fuck that, i poured countless hours into triple triad, tetra master, blitzball, and sphere break, and i loved them all

it wouldve been nice to have something in ff16 to break up the monotony

I would like a return to a sense of exploration at least.

Enjoyed XVI a lot but never does it particularly stray from moving from quest marker to quest marker.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Mahjong doesn't count.

well yeah mahjong sucks why would it count

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/5/0/AAeolZAAEqvi.jpg

snowboarding in ff7 rules

other than that I'm kind of cold on the other ff minigames, except for chocobo hot and cold, which I'm lukewarm on

Just finished the game myself tonight.

-Story, graphics, voice acting - A+
Enthralling and beautiful for me. Side quests were mostly good, though there was fluff. I enjoyed a lot of the hunts, toughest boss in the game was Svarog and it was a blast battling it.

-Battle and gameplay - B-
Battles were well paced, even the long ones. Enemies needed to be more diverse or have counters for your moves to force you to switch strategies. Common enemies stall for 20 seconds or so between attacks. Status effects could've helped. Party members fought ok but did low damage and didnt have health bars which made you not care about them. I only died three timesand it was because I wasnt paying attention to my health bar not because I couldn't heal.

-Exploration - C-
Very few things in the world worth going out of the way for, even though I 100%ed the game anyways. Ended with an unneeded $1million easy, and over 30k unused ability points, and stacks upon stacks of useless materialsetc.

Elite (will be nomming for Save My)
Clive, Dion, Torgal, Cid

Good
Joshua, Hugo, Benedikta, Byron, Ultima, Gav

Average
Jill - in most every way, Barnabas, Wade, Elwin, Tarja, Sleipnir, a lot of the other supporting cast

Hated
Mid, Anabella

Best Chocobo Ever
Ambrosia

Overall - 87% is the grade from me

I just recently realized that sometimes (I think it's during special moves?) the enemy's stagger gauge just won't deplete if they're about to be staggered. I find this kind of dumb

Yes some abilities freeze time, that also works for when the enemy is fully staggered. Their gauge will halt recovery for the duration of your attack.

Cold Snap also freezes the gauge.

Also I just realized there are materials that are just for selling that I have just been hoarding for no reason at all

I'm now well on my way to being a Gillionaire

So I'm playing through FF mode right now, and I just beat the hunt for Atlas

The reward was 2,000,000 exp. I leveled from 67 to 69.

The average sidequest gives between 20,000exp to 100,000exp and takes 4 times longer to complete then any single hunt.

TL:DR: Hunts awesome. Side Quests mega lame.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

There has never been a good Final Fantasy mini game. Not even in XIV.

Will not be gaslit by Triple Triad fans.

Mahjong doesn't count.

This is twisted propaganda. I loved Blitzball (Not in X-2 though, gross), I loved FF1's stupid slide puzzle, and I absolutely ADORED what they did to Fort Condor in FF7R Intergrade. That was fun as hell, with an incredibly difficult and rewarding final boss.

Oh yeah fort condor is dope. I hope they bring it back expanded for part 2

Just now realizing how dumb yoshi ps logic for no mini games is. Nobody played gwent in witcher 3 and thought this clashes with the games theme

wg64Z posted...

That was fun as hell, with an incredibly difficult and rewarding final boss.

dont know if i'd have called it difficult but it was definitely fun.

I'm definitely pro-mini-game.

TomNook7 posted...

Just now realizing how dumb yoshi ps logic for no mini games is. Nobody played gwent in witcher 3 and thought this clashes with the games theme

yeah the logic about all the white people is really bad in hindsight too

colliding posted...

yeah the logic about all the white people is really bad in hindsight too

It actually makes more sense after beating the game imo, unless I'm overthinking things but: how many generations removed are we from Ultima creating humanity? I'm under the impression we're talking thousands of years, not millions? So I'm just assuming Ultima created white people and that kind of logically settles things in my mind...?

Mini-games though, yeah I understand that runs counter to the grimdark fantasy aesthetic but there's plenty of places to slip a little something in. Like people are always taking a load off at the pub, it would fit to throw in a little card game option there. Then there's a few other pubs around the lands you visit that could also have people playing cards. Maybe the different regions have their own regional twists on the card game... ahhhhh I'm falling into the triple triad trap, lol

i'm looking forward to the Hamilton-style remake of this game in the 2100s

colliding posted...

yeah the logic about all the white people is really bad in hindsight too

lmao this is the first ive heard of this

junk_funk posted...

Battle and gameplay - B-
Battles were well paced, even the long ones. Enemies needed to be more diverse or have counters for your moves to force you to switch strategies. Common enemies stall for 20 seconds or so between attacks. Status effects could've helped. Party members fought ok but did low damage and didnt have health bars which made you not care about them. I only died three timesand it was because I wasnt paying attention to my health bar not because I couldn't heal.

I think the combat gets much more fun on Final Fantasy difficulty. The game is definitely too easy on first playthrough.

masterplum posted...

Its entirely this. Side quests were perfect up till bahamut. Then suddenly you walk 50 feet and more pop up, but you still want to do them because the good ones were so good

I felt that for sure. Early on, I kept thinking "yeah these sidequests are nothing special, but at least there's only 3 of them and they take like 5 minutes each at most. I'll do these no problem"

Then at the end there were 10 of them and they took 10-15 minutes each

Needless to say, they stopped being inoffensive and became a nuisance.

OST is out now, oh man

I remember having a surge of working productivity when the 7R OST came out.... we'll see how this one fares.

"Into the Mire - Stillwind" was my constant theme on the Orchestrion and it may be one of my fav FF songs ever and I don't even remember hearing it in that brief time in Stillwind, weeks ago. Wonder what other hidden or forgotten gems will be rediscovered!

wg64Z posted...

So I'm playing through FF mode right now, and I just beat the hunt for Atlas

The reward was 2,000,000 exp. I leveled from 67 to 69.

The average sidequest gives between 20,000exp to 100,000exp and takes 4 times longer to complete then any single hunt.

TL:DR: Hunts awesome. Side Quests mega lame.

So update to this, beat Svarog and got 11,500,000 exp. Why are these so disproportionate to the side quests?!

Yay, a new topic that I can actually participate in! Charon and I just started playing a few days ago.

From the moment you reach Moore it should have been obvious why all the white people. Whether slaves or oppressors, it doesn't matter if you're somehow able to spread different races evenly and fairly. All it takes is one frame out of context and it's over. Now whether it was right or wrong, it's complicated but it's definitely understandable why they would rather avoid the whole issue

GenesisSaga posted...

Yay, a new topic that I can actually participate in! Charon and I just started playing a few days ago.

I hope you enjoy it Goetz

BK_Sheikah00 posted...

From the moment you reach Moore it should have been obvious why all the white people. Whether slaves or oppressors, it doesn't matter if you're somehow able to spread different races evenly and fairly. All it takes is one frame out of context and it's over. Now whether it was right or wrong, it's complicated but it's definitely understandable why they would rather avoid the whole issue

I suppose I can see that. But honestly I'm fine accepting the answer that it's just feudal Europe too.

I mean the idea that medieval Europe was ethnically monolithic is ahistorical and mostly propagated through fantasy stories like this one. It's obvious they just didn't want to touch it because the story dealt with slavery and they had no idea how to handle it, which is laughable.

And tbh it wasn't even worth it? The magic slavery plotline in this game isn't good or interesting and doesn't matter much besides being a plot device to get the plot rolling.