Board 8 > Final Fantasy XVI (Pt 2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I still think ng+ was a mistake because the only actually remixed stuff is in the action stages. So instead of making you play through 30+ hours of rpg again to unlock more difficulty, it really should have just been Arcade Mode with harder difficulties unlocked after beating the game.

Literally just Devil May Cry and you mission select on Son of Sparda and then Dante Must Die.

The argument that "all Final Fantasy games are easy" isn't actually true. In hindsight we remember spamming magic/blitzes in FFVI and think it's an easy game, or we remember breaking the GF system in VIII, but that's only because we figured it out/looked online. The easiness of XVI is a different kind of easiness than earlier games. We could make early games easy through grinding, etc. XVI is naturally easy in a braindead way.

FFVII is easy, with or without tricks or extensive grinding. Maybe not all of them, but even then they're not exactly SMT.

Now, the NES games are punishing because they're NES games. After that is sort of a transitional phase, see FFIV easytype and hardtype, or the non-localization of V. As of PS1, I'm pretty comfortable saying that the typical numbered FF is no harder than the typical Pokemon campaign. You really don't need any advanced knowledge or strategic planning. Basic knowledge of character action and hitting a dodge button with generous timing may seem easy to us, but it is a skill.

colliding posted...

The argument that "all Final Fantasy games are easy" isn't actually true. In hindsight we remember spamming magic/blitzes in FFVI and think it's an easy game, or we remember breaking the GF system in VIII, but that's only because we figured it out/looked online. The easiness of XVI is a different kind of easiness than earlier games. We could make early games easy through grinding, etc. XVI is naturally easy in a braindead way.

Every FF game has one or two bosses that trip up a first-time player, but outside of the superbosses, they're definitely easy. You don't need to look up a guide to sleepwalk through most encounters with basic damage/healing.

Then there's FFXV, the game you can't die in because you can carry and easily stock 99 of every healing item, and when a party member falls you can pause the action and revive them, even if all of your party members are down at once.

I hated that if I died to a boss, I'd skip right to the phase I died on and have all of my potions completely restocked. Like cmon man...

wg64Z posted...

I hated that if I died to a boss, I'd skip right to the phase I died on and have all of my potions completely restocked. Like cmon man...

loved this tbh

it only happened to me on NG+ though which I only played for the trophy and I was severely underleveled because I skipped everything possible

This game is so good until it isn't. I don't know if it was a time/budgetary issue or if the developers just didn't have the proper vision that this game needed. But really it just needed 10% more to be a truly great game. Unfortunately the 10% it's missing makes a big difference

I think it needed to be 30% less TBH.

I really think y'all (and I would include myself here) are "speaking from a place of privilege" when describing how easy the old FF games are. I think we're just good at them. But this is a tricky thing to prove so I'll just take the L.

colliding posted...

I really think y'all (and I would include myself here) are "speaking from a place of privilege" when describing how easy the old FF games are. I think we're just good at them. But this is a tricky thing to prove so I'll just take the L.

you could say the same thing about the people saying FFXVI is too easy tbh

Series as a whole might get downplayed even if we're ignoring MMOs and spin-offs. OTOH, the only thing stopping FF7 (original) from mostly being a cakewalk without even using Materia at all is how shitty Potions and High Potions are. That's the kind of shit people think of.

wg64Z posted...

I think it needed to be 30% less TBH.

I think if anyone asks me if they should play XVI Im going to tell them absolutely, just turn it off after the 5th eikon and pretend the game is over.

colliding posted...

I really think y'all (and I would include myself here) are "speaking from a place of privilege" when describing how easy the old FF games are. I think we're just good at them. But this is a tricky thing to prove so I'll just take the L.

I'm speaking from a place of having beaten VII with practically just attack spam when I was a dumb kid.

masterplum posted...

I think if anyone asks me if they should play XVI Im going to tell them absolutely, just turn it off after the 5th eikon and pretend the game is over.

7 and 8 have some of the most fun moves to use, though.

Er, "6 and 7" I guess. There are 8 but one of them is Ifrit.

Well Yoship just announced glamour in a free update that wil come out in a few hours.

And they've started working on two installments of DLC.

New update coming in a few hours that lets you reskin your weapon to any other you have, adds second skins for several characters, and some other minor changes (controller layouts were mentioned). Also two paid DLC in the works and PC version officially announced as in development.

https://twitter.com/finalfantasyxvi/status/1698133463323611566

https://youtu.be/40ivdiYRu7A

Patch notes are up

https://twitter.com/finalfantasyxvi/status/1698185603085394146

Bump

BK_Sheikah00 posted...

Well Yoship just announced glamour in a free update that wil come out in a few hours.

And they've started working on two installments of DLC.

Ah, I didn't know about the additional DLC.

I think the conversation about difficulty is a little too black and white when some people talk about it. Easier is not inherently bad. Harder is not inherently good. And vice versa.

FFXVI is definitely NOT a hard game under any circumstance, but FF is a story-driven franchise. If the gameplay doesn't make me sweat, I'm not bothered by that. In fact, I would say this is exactly why there's a consensus that FFXVI is still a good game despite its flaws: we care more about the story, and the story was good enough to keep us playing.

I would say its lack of difficulty is only a problem because there's a lack of variety. There's a lack of enemy variety, lack of incentive to try a variety of abilities, lack of boss variety (bosses get reused for hunt board quests), lack of variety in gameplay outside of combat, etc. If the game provided ways to have fun that were a little easier, that'd be fine, but doing the same easy stuff for 50 hours is a problem.

However, I'm surprised on the discourse of FF being a very easy franchise... FFX had numerous hard fights (Seymour Flux, Yunalesca, even Braska's Final Aeon was hard if you hadn't done much side stuff to level up and didn't have any stoneproof stuff). FFXIII had a few fights that were tough too. I'm not an RPG expert and definitely not someone who knew any strategies going into these fights, so I feel like I may represent the general playing public on these games.

The only reason people wipe to Yunalesca is because they logically assume that curing Zombie status immediately is the play, especially because of Seymour. That's not difficulty, that's just a troll.

I remember Seymour on the mountain being very hard until gamefaqs told me to use bio

I think FFX is difficult at parts

I also think the earlier games are challenging if you don't grind to level/upgrade equipment

I feel like FF5 and X-2 were the most challenging. Random mobs would just beat the shit out of me sometimes. Bosses come out of nowhere and instantly wipe me.

Funny enough I also feel like those two have the best combat in the series

Did anyone ever pick up/listen to the XVI soundtrack? I forget if the music was commented on in the topic or not but while playing the game I found it, I don't know how to describe it. "Generic" feels too harsh, but maybe my expectations were too high?

I've listened through the full OST once and... don't really feel the need to again in its entirety, definitely feels like there's a lot of "filler", more than the 7R OST imo but maybe that's my own biases seeping in.

Obviously Soken is a legend and some area themes are pretty good and there's a tremendous number of bangers that have formed their own "banger playlist" for me but even that clocks out at about 2 1/2 hours, whereas my 7R banger list was north of 4.

Still obviously lots of great tracks and "Into the Mire" is an all-time top VG track for me and it kills me that it just plays in the prologue and never pops up again anywhere else in the game but it was my go-to song on the orchestrion.

There is one I wanted to point out and I don't think it's a spoiler to note it, since it's an unused track that was thrown into the last disc of the OST and if it was used it would've been a prologue song, probably replacing "A Rose is a Rose" which is good in its own right but still.

"The Grand Duchy of Rosaria - Unused"

of course I can't find it on youtube so I gotta link to a soundcloud upload in case anyone wants to give a listen...

https://soundcloud.com/user-675036643/final-fantasy-xvi-964698651

literally when the bagpipes kick in near the end I don't know what it was or the feelings it was invoking in me but damn... almost made me misty-eyed. Love that song and wouldn't have minded that being an orchestrion option if not being in the game proper.

None of the other "unused" tracks hit the same way, and the unused (boss battle spoiler) "Ifrit vs Ifrit" track is just straight-up bad, like just don't put it on the OST if that's what you came up with, wow.

Anyways, would still recommend giving the OST a listen if anyone hasn't yet and there are so many songs that will be on my top tier music list for ages to come but yeah... a lot of tracks that don't really hold up well outside the video game environment.

YoshiP ain't the guy, Soken is! I'm sure you know that and it was a typo lol.

It is not his strongest work by any means. Some tracks are great, especially ones where he actively went against his directions and was still given the OK, but that's just it: he's goes his own way in XIV, in XVI he was told what to do. You're not going to get the absolute masterpiece that is the XIV OST from that. You're not gonna get any Powerman 5000 right next to a balad about the tragic history of dragons that will leave you in tears.

lol definitely a typo thanks for pointing that out <_<

Yeah while I never played XIV I got really into the music after andy's FF music contest about 2 years back, introduced me to so much great stuff. And I love extended tracks on youtube for the immersion, the less silence from a song looping around the better, and there's a channel that does hour-long loops of XIV songs and so I got really into that, so many all-time favs. The XIV playlist comes out on many a workday, so much wonderful stuff there, just checked and it's up to 53 on my playlist now, nice.

And that's a good point re increased oversight/direction vs. free rein with his XIV stuff, hadn't considered that either. Well, ideally there isn't too much of a timelag between the Rebirth game and OST releases because I'm already looking ahead there...

The theme that plays during hunts/most bosses is pretty good. Titan Lost is good. But yeah I found most of the area music to be pretty forgettable.

Titan Lost is excellent but I actually like his other 2 Titan themes more lol.

May just be because I've heard them dozens and dozens of times.

Titan Lost is certainly the more...."consumer friendly" of the 3, though.

yeah that is my fav part of my banger playlist, the Do or Die - Titan Lost - Heart of Stone threepack. So good.

Also agree with you colliding, I absolutely love the 'strong boss battle' theme On The Shoulders of Giants even if it's, I don't know, relatively simple, I really love it (and luckily my 1-hour-loop guy who's only done two XVI loops, that was one of them so it's gotten lots of play).

"No Risk, No Reward" which is the other boss theme and more frequent in hunt hunts is also really good, that's probably the one you're thinking of. But it's like, I think about the XV soundtrack, for a game that's not really looked back in kindly I feel like that soundtrack had a lot more my speed.

Anyways for XVI, basically my top 5 song list is probably like, if it's got some chanting in the background it's there, lol.

MartinFF7 posted...

Basically my top 5 is like, if it's got some chanting in the background it's there, lol.

Endcaller would have you acting up.

Yeah I told you I listened to those XIV loops right? Endcaller is pretty pretty pretty good. Ultima was introduced to me through the aforementioned FF music contest and that's what kicked off me looking into other XIV stuff. Worm's Tail, and Invincible which is among my all-time favs. I'm heavily biased on the louder more battle/action-oriented pieces and I guess that is a little more lacking in XVI relative to other FFs.

But yeah for XVI I am still and probably always be really into (story fight spoilers?) Away (Phoenix/Ifrit fight), Control (final Garuda fight), The Riddle (final Odin phase) so that's 3 of the 5 right there, and yeah Heart of Stone (final Titan phase) for 4 probably. "Ascension" doesn't make the cut I think, I know a lot of people like it but it didn't pull me like the other Eikon battle themes.

I like Find the Flame a lot.

That's all I'm really able to contribute.

Yeah I was thinking of adding that to the list but I still need to figure out the difference between Find the Flame and All As One tbh...

No Risk, No Reward is an all timer boss theme, come back to listen to this one a LOT.

Our Terms is incredibly catchy and chill.

Yeah that's all I got.

Bump

What song plays in Norvent Valley?

I thought XVI's soundtrack was incredible while playing the game. Sure I can't remember specific songs or hum the melodies but that doesn't make a soundtrack good or bad imo. It was the complexity.

neonreaper posted...

What song plays in Norvent Valley?

Claire view is another song I kinda like. Trying to look through the soundtrack isnt really turning up anything.

Histoire?

neonreaper posted...

What song plays in Norvent Valley?

"Histoire" is the general Sanbreque area theme, but when I googled "Too Bloody Quiet" turned up for that location (plot-related for a specific time in the game). So probably assuming you're referring to the latter but just in case, got both below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEcIj7XDiJU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CroyD1kH3AM

Did pretty much everything in the first playthrough

Great game! Having slept on it yeah its at least 4th in the series for me. Might be higher but my opinion on T/X/VII has basically stayed the same unless I try them again and realize yeah I enjoyed XVI way more

only real critique is the side quests until like the last stretch are really dull, and the last stretch is primarily whatever plot they have