Board 8 > [VGMC] Video Game Music Contest 17 - Bracket Discussion and Results Thread!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

My favorite in Bracket A is #64 in the x-stats. Yay.

And finally, Bracket D!

1 Un Deux Trois 50.00%
2 Unused Song 2 49.21%
3 The God Shattering Star 46.36%
4 Dancing Mad 45.90%
5 The Blue Sanctuary 45.10%
6 To Far Away Times 45.00%
7 City Centre 44.42%
8 Dialgas Fight to the Finish! 43.50%
9 Calling 41.31%
10 Memories in the Mist 40.72%
11 Song of Mourning Eternal Wind 39.66%
12 Act 1: The Void of Space 39.41%
13 Civilizations 39.29%
14 Banbard ~Piano Ver~ 38.36%
15 White Spell 37.50%
16 Desert-Duo 37.36%
17 An Empty Tome 37.34%
18 Old L.A. 2040 36.94%
19 Sight of Silence 36.82%
20 -{EDGE OF THE FUTURE} 36.34%
21 Chain of Pain 36.29%
22 sometimes I breathe 36.27%
23 They Who Govern Reason 35.57%
24 Jintinda Lab 34.79%
25 Long Tall Eyelash 34.77%
26 Turning Point 34.31%
27 Fly In The Freedom 33.65%
28 Millennium Spark 33.48%
29 Reach for the Moon, Immortal Smoke 32.83%
30 Town, Flow of Time, People 32.40%
31 Reach for reality 31.74%
32 The Grand Finale 31.09%
33 PEARLS 30.98%
34 Its Pizza Time! 30.75%
35 GOLDEN RULE 30.69%
36 Kings (Project Wingman) 30.39%
37 Fullmetal Fighter 30.37%
38 Dance of the Daring 30.17%
39 POP TEAM BATTLE 30.09%
40 Dont speak her name! 30.02%
41 Battle! Cassiopeia 29.92%
42 Travelers into the shadow 29.62%
43 Moonlight Caynon 29.52%
44 And Yet It Wanes 29.30%
45 Got more raves? 29.06%
46 Let It Die ~always see you there~ 28.98%
47 Another World (Smurfs Nightmare) 28.93%
48 Aegleseeker 28.42%
49 X-Naut Fortress 28.33%
50 EXEC_CHRONICLE_KEY/. 28.04%
51 Fight the Tower 28.00%
52 Wecgas fore tham Cynge 27.83%
53 Rock Club 27.70%
54 Untrodden Morn 27.41%
55 Drenched in Air 27.07%
56 Weight of the World / Japanese 25.94%
57 hinagiku 24.93%
58 The 3 Karma 24.46%
59 Soy Sauce for Geese 24.19%
60 hepatica 22.40%
61 Deadmans Gun 21.49%
62 Tempestissimo 21.44%
63 Musouka 2016 18.72%
64 Give Me Money! 10.03%

Rhythm games got beaten up pretty badly in this bracket, but they also won it? Wild.

The Blue Sanctuary gets the highest placement of any round 1 loser this contest, though it narrowly loses to Origin's value of 45.40%.

Ultimate Loser:
Un Deux Trois > To Far Away Times > Banbard > Old L.A. 2040 > Chain of Pain > Turning Point > Fullmetal Fighter

Day 95 Results!

Back in Time 33 v 25 Un Deux Trois

Let's count the votes at the end of this match! One... One... One... One... Back and forth, back and forth, one by one... but Back in Time already had its head start that propelled it into its spot in the finals!!

Day 96, live from 2010: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80537952

Day 96 Results!

Electric Power Building 20 v 20 Rusty Ruins Act 2
The Sunleth Waterscape 25 vs 14 Skaarj Assault
Staff Roll 24 vs 16 The Machine

I guess we'll never actually know how PowerOne and RustyTwo would end up.... !! (also dont tell anyone but that apparently wasn't actually the machine lmfao)

Day 97, THE FINALS!!!: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80538859

Now that VGMC 17 is over, I have finalized my rankings of the 16 retirees.
Countdown of the Rankings + Pokemon Types (because why not?) Part 1!:

16. beatmania IIDX 20 tricoro/jubeat saucer | Rainbow after snow -- I like the beat but I feel like overall this just isn't really my thing. Didn't care for it originally, don't care for it now. More power to you if you like it though!
(ice/fire)

15. Deemo II -- Un Deux Trois -- I do apologize for being too hard on this song and ranting about it winning. That being said, I just can't quite get used to the vocals. I *want* to really enjoy this song but it's hard to. I'm glad it's a major key song that actually made it super far though! (psychic/water)

14. Final Fantasy XIII - Music: The Sunleth Waterscape + Lyrics - Not a fan of the singing or the melody, but I really like the instrumentation here. (fire/water)

13. The Liar Princess and the Blind Prince | Moonlight Concert -- I did not like this song much originally but it has grown on me quite a bit. Still not a big fan of the vocals, but I love the waltz-y feel to it and the instrumentation. And omg that flute :heart: (I'm a flutist so I approve) (dark/fairy)

12. (Piano Version) -- I really like the clapping in the background. Usually I like bagpipes, but this doesn't quite cut it for me. The melody itself is great though. (flying)

11. Destiny Child | Ragna Breakers -- Marioooo Kart 8!!! This is pretty cool. It kept beating songs I liked better than it (Lost Forest, Crystal Caves) but it still is on my favorite discovery list so I can't complain that much. (normal/fighting)

10. Cleopatra Fortune | SHININ' QUEEN -- The voice at the beginning is a bit off-putting but basically everything else about this song slaps pretty hard. (fairy/ground)

9. Sonic R | Back in Time -- While I am satisfied with this as the winner, I do feel the other Sonic R retiree was better; its melody was more catchy. This is still pretty cool. Head cannon is that this song would be a time traveler if it were a person! (psychic)

Countdown of the Rankings + Pokemon Types (because why not?) Part 2!:

8 . Sonic R - Can You Feel The Sunshine -- Yeah, I would've preferred this as the winner over the other Sonic song. Better instrumentation, better melody. Better pretty much everything. Both are great though. (fire)

7. Simcity 4 -- Epicentre -- Okay Suna Gina was better but this is still a banger. Love the percussion here especially. For some reason, the singing at 1:06 reminds me of Enya (complimentary). (steel/ground)

6. Kirby and the Forgotten Land - Northeast Frost Street -- I feel like there are better/more impressively composed songs from this ost (ex. Blizzard Bridge) but this is still fantastic. It's just filled with this feeling of a simple fun adventure in the frosted streets. A very endearing song. (ice)

5. Professor Layton and the Last Specter - Theme of the Devil's Flute -- Possibly one of my favorite discoveries from any contest. This along with some discussions I've had with fans of this song and series has re-ignited my interest in playing the series after I got bored of playing the Curious Village like...10 years ago (oops). The guitar solo at 3:01 is *amazing* btw. Great buildup. Awesome piece of music. (ghost)

4. Breath of Fire V - Electric Power Building (PowerOne) -- Classic example of an acquired taste at least for me. I still remember when I ranked this near last place (35th of 38th) when we had it in a Supra contest a couple years ago. Fast forward two years, and I literally supported the song myself. I love the electric sound effects. And my gosh this song has some of the coolest build ups (chord progressions?) I've ever heard starting at 2:20 mark (not to mention the harmony in this section is pure ear candy). (electric)

3. Final Fantasy VI - Dancing Mad -- and the award for my favorite song that I didn't nom/support goes tooooooo-- the Kefka theme lol
This is such an impressive composition especially considering the hardware at the time. FOUR movements?! Insane.

The first movement is such a nice starter. It's extremely intimidating (really lets you know THIS is the final boss) and just EPIC. And those runs at the 1:33 mark?! Damn this goes HARD.
That organ does wonders for this song.

The second movement is where we first hear some semblance of the final boss himself being incorporated into the music...a foreshadowing for the final movement? Perhaps. My least favorite of the four but still impressive no less. It's like...Kefka is maniacally laughing at you! Definitely quite fitting.

The third movement...oh man. Once again, banger organ. This literally sounds like Bach somehow, specifically Toccata and Fugue (aka the vampire theme song), which I guess makes sense considering vampires are usually evil and intimidating just like Kefka.

The fourth movement is definitely the fan favorite and for a good reason. I'll admit when I was first introduced to this song a while back, I didn't care for this movement, but it has grown on me. It really represents Kekfa's insanity very well, that's for sure. Great finisher.

As one commenter on one of the Dancing Mad videos put it, using the SNES soundfont is like painting with crayons. Pretty hard to do and hard to make it sound nice. With this song, Uematsu used those crayons and painted the Sistine Chapel. (dark/flying)

1. Super Mario 64 -- Staff Roll (normal) & Chrono Trigger -- To Far Away Times (psychic) -- Choosing between these two is like trying to decide who is your favorite child. It's impossible. Both are two of the greatest credits themes in gaming history. They both have beautiful melodies and great instrumentation. They both perfectly convey the bittersweet feeling one would have at the end of an adventure. They are both songs I feel you don't even have to play the games to feel nostalgic for because they capture that feeling so perfectly. Seeing Staff Roll here makes me especially happy after its tragic r1 loss last year. What a fantastic comeback. Both are masterpieces. Oh, and if they were people, TFAT would be time travel buddies with Back in Time. Definitely.

Full X-stats:

https://pastebin.com/u8zCKJ2m

Fun rankings wave and I like the pokemon typings, though I'm curious where you get fire from for Sunleth. If anything I personally would see it as grass/water.

77. Mission 3 HK 35.55%
142. Back 2 Back 29.77%
148. Fly In The Freedom 29.01%
149. Mt. Pyre Exterior 28.99%
169. Kobito of Shining Needle ~ Little Princess 27.75%
226. Buzz in the Grotto 22.03%

Checking how my noms did in x-stats. Well, one of them reached top half! Woo KCF

Ah, and comparing the top 16 X-stats with the 16 retirees, here are the deviations:

Retirees
Banbard (Piano Version)
Dancing Mad
Epicentre
Northeast Frost Street
Staff Roll
The Sunleth Waterscape
To Far Away Times
Un Deux Trois

Top X-stats
Trajectory of the Kiyarora Satellite
Lost Forest
Crystal Caves
Journey to Candle Hill
Aria Math
Sayonara (ALL PHASE MIX)
Subterranean Sunrise
Ring Ring Ring!

Which is the better group?

xstats

Ehhh... X-stats has the better individual song for me (Crystal Caves) but the Retirees have more in the way of quantity of songs I like. Tough call there.

Seeing Azure Archipelago and Azure Sword right next to each other made me chuckle. Also found it interesting how the two Banbards were only separated by five spots in the end.

This was a pretty good contest I think. Somewhat lackluster winner but definitely not the worst, and I'm thrilled Dancing Mad and Sunleth were finally able to retire. Last Specter's Theme was also a really cool song that I don't think I'd actually heard before the contest.

Wasn't able to be as active as the past few years due to also dealing with my last semester of grad school, but hopefully next year I'll have a bit more time.

Thanks as always for hosting things!

Thanks for hosting this!

Great contest! Looking back, I think it was a step in the right direction to reduce nominations from thirty to twenty, because that dropped the nomination field from 1000+ down to 750. But... I think improvements could still be made for the next year.

Twenty noms is really limiting. I do recall a certain user on discord (who shall remain nameless) who admitted to using every one of his limited supports to favorites that he already knew about. No doubt many other users were in a similar situation (btw, I think this "nameless" user has good taste in music!). Thus for the benefit of those who nominate good (but not well known) music, it would be best to increase the number of nominations again so that people actually have room to support them. Granted, we don't want to have 1000+ songs again. You probably now already know what I'm gonna propose, but this is just one possible way to handle it...

1) 50 noms per user
2) 10 unique nom cap per user (this basically means 10 noms + 40 supports)
3) Several days into the contest, 100 extra unique noms will be available for distribution; anyone can request extra noms; however, those whose nominations are doing poorly will get first dibs.

I feel this will benefit the chances of the less popular users who nominate less familiar stuff, and I think many users would find it satisfying to be able to support more than 10-15 songs. (Granted, I'm actually torn on whether I would want this for my own selfish reasons, but I feel this will be to everyone's benefit) The worst possible thing would be unlimited supports, though. That would ruin the chances of a lot of unique music from qualifying.

I just want to say as someone who almost exclusively nominates "less familiar stuff" that since we branched out to other sources to get people involved in the contest, my ability to get songs into the contest came crashing down hard (while normally being a below-average user in that regard) to where getting more than two songs seemed like a pipedream. That is why after me and a bunch of other longtime vets were only able to get one song in each last year, I was very vocal about giving users the option to auto-include songs at the cost of supporting (whether at all or a limited amount).

That evidently fell on deaf ears to the person in charge, so I had no choice but to operate as normal this year. Since we reduced it to 20 noms, as well as tinkering with the locking system and whatnot, I shot up to getting four songs in, which is the most I've had in for a long time.

Haste_2 posted...

1) 50 noms per user
2) 10 unique nom cap per user (this basically means 10 noms + 40 supports)
3) Several days into the contest, 100 extra unique noms will be available for distribution; anyone can request extra noms; however, those whose nominations are doing poorly will get first dibs.

I would just start supporting random crap because I could. Honestly, I think this would have the opposite effect, because the random crap would usually be of the form "eh, I know that song."

KCF0107 posted...

the option to auto-include songs

In my time hosting, I was always against the idea of auto-include because I felt like it would lead to just a lot of random junk being added. I ran an auto-include side bracket one year and there were some real doozies in there. I'm not sure if people would have taken it more seriously if it had been a bracket entry or if they would have giggled at the option of forcing everyone to listen to I'm Not Cinderella in the contest. INB4 people defending my example.

My position has softened on the matter, though. Maybe rather than having tiebreakers, we could let people with the most disadvantaged records during the main nomination phase select a track to put in the contest. *IF* the number of bubble slots were a decent amount, this would be a fairly elegant solution, but of course the problem here is that this is always a variable amount and some years there have been almost no additional tracks included during tiebreakers.

Being able to get some really obscure picks into the earlier years was one of the big selling points of VGMC, so reducing the nom size back down to 20 helped out a bit on that front (although I am a big supporter of auto-include, but as the side bracket implementation)

I really liked how this year's nom system worked. I may be biased given how many noms I got in >_>

i wonder how people would feel about giving everyone an auto-in slot, but it can only be used on something that's never been in?

Auto-include is a fun idea. Making it so it has to be used on a song that hasn't gotten in before makes sense.

50 noms and "100 extra unique noms" are both terrible ideas.

I think this year's contest was run very well and liked the nomination system. Tremendous work, deo.

ive always been a fan of autoinclude

I like auto-include as long as it doesnt take up too much of the field.

I struggled to feel engaged with this contest and the field of songs until around retirement rounds because I know my taste and b8s taste generally dont overlap, I only get like 1 song in a year, and its generally one that I nominated because I think b8 will like it more than my normal taste.

Itd be nice to be able to easily get a pet song into the field and just see how it does.

I still really feel like auto-includes go against the spirit of nominations, what's the point of listening to new songs in that phase when your support might not matter anyways. Not to mention if a song gets in bracket when it wouldn't normally it's probably not going to do that well, probably increasing the amount of people who just jump in to nominate and then dip before/very early into bracket. And then comes what's likely going to happen, which is people put in some of the most unlikely stuff to get in possible for their auto-includes because why not, and it harms the bracket experience with it, I think. Obviously you could argue I'm also biased because I often get several nominations in (and they rarely do well in bracket anyways, which is still frustrating to me, but yknow) but I feel like everyone's a little biased in that way and I think autoincludes are somewhat net harmful overall.
Just my opinion though, but I think this year's system went pretty damn well, my only probably proposal for changing it is making the first day's noms like . 3 instead of 5 or something, because I think it's hard for everyone without a lot of time on their hands to get through the entire first day as-is, and it'd help limit a bit of bias to people getting their noms in early on day 1. But I dunno.

Plasman posted...

And then comes what's likely going to happen, which is people put in some of the most unlikely stuff to get in possible for their auto-includes because why not, and it harms the bracket experience with it, I think.

This is the reason I have historically been opposed. However, my track record has included trying different things, some of which stuck and some didn't, so if deo announced a one-time trial of some form of auto-include, I'd roll with it and see how it played out.

My personal opinion is against auto-include but it seems like a good idea to have a vote/poll on the issue and do whatever the majority wants, or something similar.

I suspect adding auto-include would be a more significant positive change for those in support than it would be a negative change for those against.

Speaking as one of the beneficiaries of auto-include from BOST, I do think it's a good idea for those active who struggle to even get one nomination or strongly desired support in without sacrifices. This year I wasn't very fond of my showing in general, but I've also been in a shitty headspace since February.

I'd also say that you should only be able to do an audio include if you make 10 noms or something, to prevent flybys

Plasman posted...

And then comes what's likely going to happen, which is people put in some of the most unlikely stuff to get in possible for their auto-includes because why not

Well isn't that the whole point? If something was capable of getting in through multiple supports then they'd just nominate it normally.

Outside of potential truly joke includes like crazy bus or whatever, I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between someone's pet auto include and the actual niche songs that sneak in and die round 1.

MacArrowny posted...

I think this year's contest was run very well and liked the nomination system. Tremendous work, deo.

I certainly never said I didn't like the nom system this year. I was one of the big proponents of dropping noms back down to 20! I even made a post specifically requesting that prior to this contest, so perhaps you could throw me a compliment, as well! >_> (but really, though... Tremendous work, deo.)

Well, looks like my post stimulated some good discussion. Yeah, after thinking about it, I would totally be down for auto-include. I don't think it's grievously against the spirit of the contest as long as there aren't too many of them. My main issue with auto-include is that if every user gets one, that would mean 80 auto-includes, which would be 1/3 of the bracket. That would make it quite a bit more difficult for conventional noms, so it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole idea...

I would suggest limiting them somehow. Mac already provided one idea, which would require each user a minimum of ten nominations. Or otherwise we could require a certain degree of participation in order to qualify for an auto-include (leave it up to the host's discretion?). Another idea is to limit auto-includes to those users who don't do very well during the nomination period. For example, provide the auto-include only to those who got less than three songs into the tournament. Looking at the stats for VGMC16, there were only like 25 users who had less than three songs qualify for the bracket. So, if we did it this way, we'd probably get no more than 32 auto-includes, which seems like about the right number.

But if almost everyone must get an auto-include, maybe just create a side bracket for them?

Haste_2 posted...

For example, give the auto-include only to those who got less than three songs into the tournament. Looking at the stats for VGMC16, there were only like 25 users who had less than three songs qualify for the bracket. So, if we did it this way, we'd probably get no more than 32 auto-includes, which seems like about the right number.

That would make sense for sure.

Well the idea that I proposed last year was that users of certain tenures (idk 3+ years, 5+ years, ???) could choose to be full participants in the nomination phase or get two auto includes and have little to no supporting power. I guess when I get back to my computer, I can grab my Discord post/the discussion we had last year and post the rough details.

KCF0107 posted...

Well the idea that I proposed last year was that users of certain tenures (idk 3+ years, 5+ years, ???) could choose to be full participants in the nomination phase or get two auto includes and have little to no supporting power. I guess when I get back to my computer, I can grab my Discord post/the discussion we had last year and post the rough details.

KCF can't actually be a real person but he is

Sceptilesolar posted...

I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between someone's pet auto include and the actual niche songs that sneak in and die round 1.

Also I agree with this; I don't think that many people would spend their auto on intentionally bad/disliked stuff (not to say that no one would do that). For the most part people would use it on (usually obscure) stuff that they wanted to show off/spread exposure but they knew wouldn't gain enough supports in the nom phase. In that sense it would help the aspect of discoverability in the contest, which many people have stated is their primary goal in VGMC. The concern of auto-includes taking up a large portion of the bracket is something that would need to be considered when deciding how to implement it.

Maybe the idea of having to spend X of your available supports to use an auto? (Obviously each user would get a max of 1 auto regardless) Basically there would have to be some reason for people to choose not to use an auto, which would cut down on the total number of autos in the bracket.

People already use their normal nominations on songs I find utterly reprehensible so that argument is more or less falling on deaf ears.

(I should also say that I suspect a not insignificant number of people would say the same thing about whatever I were to use my auto-include on, hypothetically)

I will say that when we did the auto-include side bracket, I think I had two auto-includes, one of which some people considered a joke song, but I like the song a lot too (EXEC_CUTYPUMP IIRC). I would definitely be more 'serious' with it for a real bracket song though.

https://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=469506&tclass=Auto%2DInclude%20Side%20Bracket

if anyone's curious about the bracket

I should also probably mention that there were 80 nominators last year. That means that, potentially, almost a third of all songs in the bracket would be gotten in without any input from anyone else. Really not a fan of that tbh. Kinda ruins the nomination phase when so much less of what people end up liking in said phase gets in, and I still much prefer the bracket being full of songs that at least several people already have listened to and enjoyed.

I'd understand it a bit more with it being just like . people without any noms being able to autoinclude a song or something, but I don't really see a way of doing that without retroactively removing songs from the bracket, which sounds pretty awful as well.

If we're really serious about this, here's how I think it would go:

1) 32 slots in the bracket are reserved. The normal nomination method is guaranteed 224 slots (7/8 of the field).
2) Finish regular nominations.
3) Look at where the bubble is. Host makes a decision where, precisely, to stage the cut-off between 224 and 256. As a result, some number of slots under 32 are actually reserved for auto-include.
4) Contact the users who nominated or supported least successfully, and are above some requisite minimum spent.
5) Those users have a brief window to supply one song to include in the contest.

That's the quick version. There's lots of things I could say about each of these points, but I don't want to make it look overly complicated.

Alternatively we could just give one to everyone, but as noted, that will tie up a huge swath of the field. It would also be dubious to determine that retroactively. Maybe one to everyone with some minimum participation level in the previous contest, and those have to be submitted before nominations. I'm not a fan of this, but it would be an option.

I found my discord post from May of last year

I actually tossed out a rough proposal to Mycro yesterday about auto-includes experiment. It was basically an either/or approach to the nomination/support process:

1. You can get two auto-includes, but you forfeit the right to nominate anything, and you get somewhere between 0-3 single supports.

2. You become a full participant in the normal nomination process whatever the rules/details end up being and thus have no restrictions or guarantees.

This allows the people who feel they are disenfranchised or those who feel overwhelmed or disillusioned to the nomination/discovery process to have a guaranteed but small voice/presence on what the final product looks like.

Those who love everything as it is, want a larger say/imprint on the contest, or whatever can still do as they have normally done.

There are obviously things that would need to be worked out, like since the VGMC announcement has been done weeks or even a month in advance, that would probably be the period that someone would have to decide what they wish to do because I don't think it would be fair for someone to decide they want option one in the middle of the the nomination period, regardless if they were participating in the nomination portion up to that point or not.

You would probably also need to restrict this option to people who have voted/participated in VGMC in recent years since we have all that info recorded on various spreadsheets, so that new people wouldn't just cut and run.

Even if something ridiculous like 50 people choose to go the auto-include route, that would mean that 100/256 songs are accounted for, leaving 156 to be nominated/decided by 30 or so users.

Maybe we could test the waters by giving people one quadruple or even quintuple nom. Then nothing gets in without at least one other person signing off on it.

Though it would suck big time to give +5 to something that ends the nomination phase at 5/1

Azuarc and KCF's ideas are both pretty good. I think KCF's point that high auto-include engagement results in a lot of slots for the most dedicated users is a pretty good compromise. Seems like a pretty win/win system

Man, I would never give up my ability to support music to auto-include music of my choice, even if I get 0 qualified noms each year endlessly. (unless I found a piece of vgm that's on par with Second Dark Matter Battle... I don't think that will ever happen.) EDIT: But if I get a good deal on trading supports, I might do it. e.g. if I only have to trade six supports to auto-include something. But it sounds somewhat intriguing. I like KCF's proposal as long as only contest veterans are allowed to make use of it. I would say any user who voted a specified number of matches last year (or over the last several years) should be the ones who can opt for trading supports for auto-include. I wouldn't be a fan of giving privileges to users who participate in nominations a lot, but don't vote in very many actual matches.

DoctorJimmy does make a point in that allowing people to use all five of their "doubles" for a single nom would have a similar effect, so maybe make a change along those lines could be an option, as well. (Yes, it's true, using a double five times wouldn't quite be an auto-include if the lock requirement is six noms.) EDIT: you know, thinking about it.... if we made it so that everyone was allotted ten doubles and were also allowed unlimited use of them on any given song, whether it's our own or somebody else's... that would be a lot like KCF's option, but it gives everyone more flexibility! Yesssss!!!

I like azuarc's idea also, because I feel that people who struggle with nomination success shouldn't have to trade supports to get an auto-include. It really is a neat idea to help out the struggling nominator instead of having to disappoint people with tiebreakers. But it might need adjusting to ensure that we don't end up with only like three auto-include spots in the bracket!

The thing about KCF's proposal is that, well, I don't think very many people are going to opt for auto-includes, unless the noms traded for an auto-support is reasonably low. But then again, it wouldn't hurt to try it out! I'm all for trying that out rather than doing exactly the same nomination process next year.

Haste_2 posted...

The thing about KCF's proposal is that, well, I don't think very many people are going to opt for auto-includes, unless the noms traded for an auto-support is reasonably low.

that's what makes it worthwhile imo - you don't really want the field to be flooded with auto-includes

I'd take that auto include option, at least. I don't enjoy the nomination process that much and limit my engagement with it. I think in terms of getting in songs I want auto include might be a net negative but it'd feel better.

I can somewhat get behind Azu's system if we're gonna try auto-includes. I don't think having less people nominating original songs is a positive for the tournament as a whole either, though.

Here comes my big stats dump!

Soon!