Board 8 > Nook's FF Topic [FF16 hype] [Series Ranking]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Im scared this topics gonna purge while i play tears of the kingdom

Alright guyz, now that I've given FF5 time to digest, I feel like I've got a whole new perspective on the series, so I moved some stuff around:

UPDATED RANKING

7.FF5 - 8.6 --> 9.0 (anything less than a 9 seems criminal)
8.FF14 HW - 9.0(it was hard to choose this or ff5 - HW has the story while ff5 has the gameplay - but i always gotta go with gameplay)
9.FF8 - 8.7 --> 8.8 (ff5's customization makes me appreciate the junction system more, and the remaster's draw speed moves it up)
10.FFX-2 - 8.5 (im happy this is top 10 now)
11.FF12 - 8.5
12.FF14 ARR - 8.5 --> 8.4 (combat didnt really get good until HW; "the floor is lava" isnt exactly engaging combat)
13.FF11 - 8.4
14.FF1 - 8.3
15.FF7 R - 8.4 -> 8.3 (i just really dont like the combat in this game. putting it below ff1 is the ultimate salt LOL)
16.FF15 - 8.0
17.DoC FF7 - 6.0
18.FF2 - 3.5 --> 5.0 (okay, it wasnt THAT bad)
19.FF13 - 3.0

And finally,

#6. Final Fantasy IX

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/0/8/AAK53VAAEgVQ.jpg

I think this was the first time I was ever Day 1 for a game. Before I had just kinda accidentally happened upon FF7, FF8, and FFT, but by the time FF9 was coming out... I was ready. I was like "mom, the new Final Fantasy game is coming out. We HAVE to go to Toys R Us TODAY and get it for $50. There's no choice."

So yeah, I played through this when I was a kid, and I played through the remaster not long ago with my wife (we played it on Steam because unfortunately they did a crap job upscaling the pre-rendered backgrounds, but thankfully there's a mod that lets you do it)

But man what an awesome experience this was back in 2000. I just remember thinking how visually amazing everything looked right off the bat. The graphics were some of the best on Ps1, and the new cutesy aesthetic elevated it even further.

I honestly believe the first half of this game is 10/10. The characters are all instantly loveable and believable right out the gate. Garnet taking control of the airship, and taking her destiny into her own hands - just perfection. It's just got this incredibly strong, character-driven plot.

But then it just kinda becomes a grindy dungeon slog in the second half? By the time we find out Zidane is a clone, my brain just checks out. My theory is because Ps2 and FFX were coming out, Square forced the team to wrap that shit up and go. Even Kuja got rushed imo - after the fight, Zidane is like "you guys go ahead, I'm gonna go save Kuja and try to talk to him." Which implies Kuja can be redeemed, which is really interesting, but they don't actually show it, and nothing ever comes from it? Unless there's some secret ending I don't know about.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/1/0/AAK53VAAEgVS.jpg

But yeah, after the hard left turn Square took with FF8, it really seemed like they wanted FF9 to be a return to form. And that's not a bad thing. FF9's really, really good at being a traditional Final Fantasy game. It didn't try to push the genre forward, but it didn't need to. And it's combat and ability systems may not have been the deepest in the series, but they always felt satisfying and rewarding.

9.3

#6. FF9 - 9.3
#7. FF5 - 9.0
#8. FF14 HW - 9.0
#9. FF8 - 8.8
#10. FFX-2 - 8.5
#11. FF12 - 8.5
#12. FF14 ARR - 8.4
#13. FF11 - 8.4
#14. FF1 - 8.3
#15. FF7 R - 8.3
#16. FF15 - 8.0
#17. DoC FF7 - 6.0
#18. FF2 - 5.0
#19. FF13 - 3.0

I agree about the back half of IX's plot. It's not bad, and the twist re: Zidane and Kuja stands up to replays. It's just kind of cheesy.

It's less "Kuja can be redeemed" and more "I'm the only person related to Kuja, his life was shit, I should at least let him die with some dignity." The entire game is about death and mortality behind the cheery attitudes of its main cast.

Also how can you not talk about Vivi and how he is the most precious boy under he sun - and encapsulates all of the themes of the story perfectly

It's unfortunate you have 4 incredible core party members and then the back half goes from "The writers forgot I existed" (Freya) to "Worst party member in a game outside of 13" (Eiko).

Eiko rules.

But yeah it's a shame Freya doesn't get more screentime in the second half of the game.

First two discs of FF9 are peak JRPG. Second half is still good but it doesn't quite live up to the first half.

trdl23 posted...

It's less "Kuja can be redeemed" and more "I'm the only person related to Kuja, his life was shit, I should at least let him die with some dignity." The entire game is about death and mortality behind the cheery attitudes of its main cast.

Well that and kuja railed against his fate which the main cast was like low-key inspired by, at least post credits.

trdl23 posted...

It's less "Kuja can be redeemed" and more "I'm the only person related to Kuja, his life was shit, I should at least let him die with some dignity." The entire game is about death and mortality behind the cheery attitudes of its main cast.

Ah, I like that a lot actually. That makes a lot of sense for Zidane's character too. I actually really love Zidane as a protagonist. He's optimistic and cheerful, with just a hint of dashing rogue, and that was such a breath of fresh air at the time compared to Cloud and Squall lol

trdl23 posted...

Also how can you not talk about Vivi and how he is the most precious boy under he sun - and encapsulates all of the themes of the story perfectly

It's unfortunate you have 4 incredible core party members and then the back half goes from "The writers forgot I existed" (Freya) to "Worst party member in a game outside of 13" (Eiko).

Yup, when I was a kid, I thought Freya was the best, but replaying it as an adult... yeah it's Vivi. He's one of the best FF characters of all time honestly. Eiko's not that bad though lol. I actually found a lot of her scenes at Madain Sari with the mogs to be really funny and charming. I really liked her cooking scene, and it's made even better that it gives Quina a cool moment. "When cooking for others, you must always make extra." Such words of wisdom have stuck with me for life

And shout out to all the minor characters like Blank and Beatrix too. The main four are obviously the strongest, but even all the minor ones hit.

Worst character is Amarant I honestly struggle to remember anything he did

Amarant is legit "I guess we need 8 party members so let's throw this guy in." Complete nothing of a character.

Beatrix though... man, Beatrix awoke some things in 11-year-old me. I still think lady knights are hot. There's a lot of great writing with her, too. Steiner's one lucky dog.

The ending of ff9 where Zidane goes to garnet makes me tear up so that redeems the last half for me

That scene is a masterpiece.

Especially since she gives him some well-deserved punches in his chest before she hugs him

In hindsight I think all of FFIX's main cast is good even though I had problems with Quina, Freya and Amarant at first.

Never had issues with Eiko. She's always been good.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Freya being forgotten was an intentional choice by the writers. Thats her entire character arc.

At the end she gets back with Fratley even though he could never get back his old memories. This shows character development as "being forgotten is worse than death" doesn't apply anymore, showing she can find value making new memories with him.

sarcasm

Whats with all the Amarant hate? While everybody else is going through an existential crisis, hes the quintessential badass bounty hunter whos embraced how shitty the world is, and only cares about himself. But even he cant resist Zidanes relentless optimism. Actually in the second half of the game, Amarants dungeon where he challenges the party was actually the rare standout in my mind.

I think the four main characters are all so fully realized, the other four fall a little flat in comparison, but even those guys are a standout in the grand scope of the series. I wouldnt change a thing about FF9s cast personally

trdl23 posted...

Beatrix though... man, Beatrix awoke some things in 11-year-old me. I still think lady knights are hot. There's a lot of great writing with her, too. Steiner's one lucky dog.

oh shit youre right. I also love lady knights, and beatrix really was the first

TomNook7 posted...

And it's combat and ability systems may not have been the deepest in the series, but they always felt satisfying and rewarding.

The combat and ability systems are my least favorite parts of FF9. Every battle just takes forever, what with the opening animation and camera moves, then every animation taking a billion years to start up and complete. Compare to FF7, where everything feels snappy and quick, and even the animations that are a little drawn out mostly feel that way for effect and so the attack has more visual impact.

The ability system upsets me because of the disparity between how much AP is required to master an ability and how much AP you can reasonably obtain by just playing through the game without grinding. Invariably I get a piece of equipment that is a statistical upgrade over what I'm currently using before I've learned all the abilities from the old piece, and now I have to choose between grinding out the last AP so I have that ability or forgoing the abilities in favor of better stats. I know in the long run it doesn't make a ton of difference, but the completionist in me hates it. I can stand grinding if it's for a good cause, but mastering a few situational passive abilities on an old piece of gear rarely feels worth it (and it only gets worse if I've managed to build up a backlog of gear with unlearned abilities).

Not_an_Owl posted...

The combat and ability systems are my least favorite parts of FF9. Every battle just takes forever, what with the opening animation and camera moves, then every animation taking a billion years to start up and complete.

Not as true in the modded PC version!

Not_an_Owl posted...

Every battle just takes forever, what with the opening animation and camera moves, then every animation taking a billion years to start up and complete. Compare to FF7, where everything feels snappy and quick, and even the animations that are a little drawn out mostly feel that way for effect and so the attack has more visual impact.

This is very true honestly. And sure you can mod it or whatever (I did), but that doesnt change how botched the official remaster is. And until these issues are fixed (also please just upscale the damn pre-rendered backgrounds), FF9 remains out of my top 5 unfortunately.

Disagree about the AP system though. Of course its gonna suck if youre a completionist, but its more than adequate for the average player. And I actually like forcing the player to choose between learning an ability vs equipping better gear. It can make for some interesting risk vs reward situations

Yeah I like having a reason to be swapping out equipment instead of just slapping the latest/highest stats on.

We're in the Top 5 now son

Not only are these my top 5 FF games, but just some of my favorite games of all time in general. Final Fantasy used to be THE standard for JRPGs, and these five games really showcase that. You definitely already know which ones they are, but I'm going to be the millionth person on the internet to talk about them anyway

#5 - Final Fantasy IV

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/9/8/AAK53VAAEgjK.png

While FF1-3 were still in their old skool Dragon Warrior phase, FF4 was the one that really kicked everything into high gear. The first game to introduce the ATB system, with an epic story and huge list of characters, with five party members at a time, and beautiful 16 bit graphics and sound.

They were just firing on all cylinders in 1991. That opening with the Red Wings is one of my favorite openings in any game, and my second favorite in the series. Destroying Rydia's village and then Cecil choosing to adopt her is something that's stuck with me for life. I just love Cecil's entire redemption arc - him becoming a Paladin is one my all time favorite moments in the series. And I really like how in battle, Dark Knight made him hurt himself to become better at hurting others, but Paladin would give him the power to heal others.

I like how the game curates the party for the player, so you're constantly left trying to figure out how to make specific lineups to work. I like how fast and addicting the combat can be, and how hard the battle music hits. I love Kain, and how cool Dragoons are, and even though he was mind controlled, my head canon still says he's just a bad dude who's made some bad choices.

There's really not a lot to hate about FF4. It's a bit archaic by today's standards, but the Pixel Remaster fixes those rough edges, like no more random encounters and EXP boost, thank god. I always stood by the PSP version, but once you get spoiled by no random encounters, you can't go back. And I was never really a fan of the DS remake. I just can't stand to look at those chibi character models. Bleck.

My mind is sitting on a 9.4 right now... which seems low for all this praise, and while I know FF4 and FF1 were revolutionary, there's also a handful of Dragon Warrior, Ys, and Phantasy Star games that are comparable from around the same period. But that's okay, because the best was yet to come.

The ranking so far
#5. FF4 - 9.4
#6. FF9 - 9.3
#7. FF5 - 9.0
#8. FF14 HW - 9.0
#9. FF8 - 8.8
#10. FFX-2 - 8.5
#11. FF12 - 8.5
#12. FF14 ARR - 8.4
#13. FF11 - 8.4
#14. FF1 - 8.3
#15. FF7 R - 8.3
#16. FF15 - 8.0
#17. DoC FF7 - 6.0
#18. FF2 - 5.0
#19. FF13 - 3.0

Eh

FFIV is pretty impeccably paced for an snes rpg, but it's just way too simple for me. There's like no way to play the game any other way on replays.

The influence FFIV had on me as a sixth grader can't be understated. If I hadn't gotten into this game/series then, I'd probably be a fully functional member of society currently.

colliding posted...

The influence FFIV had on me as a sixth grader can't be understated. If I hadn't gotten into this game/series then, I'd probably be a fully functional member of society currently.

Lmao, me but FF7

#4. Final Fantasy X

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/4/8/AAK53VAAEgu4.jpg

When FFX first came out, it completely rocked my world. This was the new standard for JRPGS - the graphics were incredible, almost every line of dialogue was fully voice acted, the game transitioned out of cut scenes and into battles so smoothly... I just remember thinking like, "Wow. I can't believe games look like this now."

And even replaying it now, it's aged pretty well. It's still that incredible journey we all fell in love with over twenty years ago. It was isekai before isekai was cool. All the characters are loveable, especially Yuna, who's so endearing you can't help but admire her resolve every step of the way. And people either love or hate Tidus, but I think it was cool the player was able to slowly learn about Spira and experience the world through his eyes.

The battle system, while it lacks the intensity of ATB, more than makes up for it with depth and strategy. Switching out party members was not only technically impressive back then - it was a core part of every encounter's design, and I really think that made for some of the best combat in the series, or really even JRPGs as a whole. I didn't even mind the random encounters.

And I love Blitzball, idgaf. I got so deep into it back in the day, and my team was BEAST.

Unfortunately, there's three big flaws that standout with this game - the Sphere Grid is busy work, all the Cloister of Trials sucked, and the game is overly linear (though certainly not to the degree of FF13 - you don't even really notice it until you stop to think about it.)

That said, FFX is the epitome of "near perfect game" to me, and I'll always be grateful I got to experience that once in a lifetime leap from Gen 5 to Gen 6.

9.5/10

The ranking so far
#4. FF10 - 9.5
#5. FF4 - 9.4
#6. FF9 - 9.3
#7. FF5 - 9.0
#8. FF14 HW - 9.0
#9. FF8 - 8.8
#10. FFX-2 - 8.5
#11. FF12 - 8.5
#12. FF14 ARR - 8.4
#13. FF11 - 8.4
#14. FF1 - 8.3
#15. FF7 R - 8.3
#16. FF15 - 8.0
#17. DoC FF7 - 6.0
#18. FF2 - 5.0
#19. FF13 - 3.0

So yeah, every game from here on is 10/10.

Linear is an overused term, I don't mind linear as long as it's engaging. When it's linear and boring then you have a problem

Like FFIV I don't really appreciate the linearity of the game design. Note: I don't care about the level design being linear.

I mean it's still really good first time through but the sphere grid doesn't let you do anything with it until basically post game and that's not my favorite kind of content to now be able to experiment with setups.

pjbasis posted...

I mean it's still really good first time through but the sphere grid doesn't let you do anything with it until basically post game and that's not my favorite kind of content to now be able to experiment with setups.

Yup, that's exactly how I feel. At the same time though, the way FFX's turn-based combat is designed, every party member is treated as their own unique tool, so it makes sense why there'd be no FF5-level of customization. It would just make switching party members and watching the turn order redundant. You can't really take away that linearity without fundamentally changing FFX, so really it comes down to personal preference I guess.

EDIT: Also wanted to point out experimenting with setups was a super satisfying reward for completing the sphere grid, but yeah, unfortunately by then it's too little too late

And linearity is fine as long as the player doesn't notice. FFX peppers in just enough extra content along the way to keep the player occupied within it's hallways. It's an old Dungeons and Dragons trick - the dungeon master almost always railroads the players, but as long as they don't feel like they're being railroaded, everyone's happy.

pjbasis posted...

Like FFIV I don't really appreciate the linearity of the game design. Note: I don't care about the level design being linear.

I mean it's still really good first time through but the sphere grid doesn't let you do anything with it until basically post game and that's not my favorite kind of content to now be able to experiment with setups.

this is definitely not true, especially with the expert grid but even the standard allows a ton of freedom early on

FFX is probably the best in the series at relationships and themes. It isn't the best overall FF story but it has extremely high peaks.

Imagine if they actually did something interesting with Kimahri though

#3. Final Fantasy Tactics

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/5/4/AAK53VAAEhMq.jpg

The first turn-based strategy game I ever played, and what an absolute banger to have as my first.

Every single battle in this game thrusts you into a crazy situation, and its all on you to sink or swim. Sure you could grind levels, but thats only gonna take you so far. The only way to win in this game is pure, old fashioned strategy.

I love how the art style is so cute, yet the world itself is so dark and harrowing. Seeing these little 2D sprites be horrible to each other and maim one another in the name of God is true dark fantasy. I've always considered FFT to be the Game of Thrones of video games.

And oh my god, this is my favorite epic war music ever. Back Fire, Trisection, Battle on the Bridge, Decisive Battle. I use this games music in my DND campaign, and it always hits hard.

And who could forget the Calculator? Its one of the craziest classes ever conceived in an RPG, and I have pulled off absolute fucking miracles with those bad boys.

To this day, I still dont think Ive found a strategy RPG that I like better than this game. Fire Emblem: Three Houses and Jeanne dArc came close, but they still werent quite there.

10 out of 10 forever.

The ranking so far
#3. FFT - 10
#4. FF10 - 9.5
#5. FF4 - 9.4
#6. FF9 - 9.3
#7. FF5 - 9.0
#8. FF14 HW - 9.0
#9. FF8 - 8.8
#10. FFX-2 - 8.5
#11. FF12 - 8.5
#12. FF14 ARR - 8.4
#13. FF11 - 8.4
#14. FF1 - 8.3
#15. FF7 R - 8.3
#16. FF15 - 8.0
#17. DoC FF7 - 6.0
#18. FF2 - 5.0
#19. FF13 - 3.0

fft is great

A certified Matsuno Masterpiece.

I really need to try Tactics Ogre at some point instead of just watching a LP.

I've been slowly playing fft for the first time over the past couple of months, it's indeed great

TomNook7 posted...

I love how the art style is so cute, yet the world itself is so dark and harrowing. Seeing these little 2D sprites be horrible to each other and maim one another in the name of God is true dark fantasy. I've always considered FFT to be the Game of Thrones of video games.

Both stories are riffing on the Wars of the Roses, so the comparison is pretty apt.

SE please port WotL to Steam already so I can tell all my friends to play FFT and not have to add the caveat "...on your phone!"

trdl23 posted...

A certified Matsuno Masterpiece.

I really need to try Tactics Ogre at some point instead of just watching a LP.

Ive had that game in my collection for so long but still never played it

one day

MZero posted...

this is definitely not true, especially with the expert grid but even the standard allows a ton of freedom early on

Expert grid yes but whats the ton of freedom you get on standard? Ok kimahri goes in a circle and you can choose how that goes, next? Oh wait you get a special sphere around the calm lands so one character can go "off-grid" for 1 ability. Anything else?

pjbasis posted...

Oh wait you get a special sphere around the calm lands so one character can go "off-grid" for 1 ability.

Speaking of this

Is there a consensus optimal use for this on a normal play through?

Tactics's last act is a bummer. Even if you don't use one of the extremely broken NPC's the last few maps are cake compared to the earlier ones.

But yes, absolutely classic game for sure.

Man I wish I got to this "super easy" tactics. Tried a few times to get into the game just to get into some forced encounter with a party I wasn't serious about and then you can't go back and ugh

pjbasis posted...

Expert grid yes but whats the ton of freedom you get on standard? Ok kimahri goes in a circle and you can choose how that goes, next? Oh wait you get a special sphere around the calm lands so one character can go "off-grid" for 1 ability. Anything else?

You can get teleport spheres and return spheres from Blitzball very early on. You can also wait until you have Lv. 1 key spheres or go backwards and send your characters.down whichever path you want. You can move backward 4 spots for 1 AP so it doesn't take much to get back to the start

Level 1 key spheres do not unlock anything but short paths for some stat upgrades. You cannot take your characters on different paths until endgame.

Level 1 locks don't hide anything but very short paths that have extra stat boosts.

I don't play blitzball early but do teleport spheres even let you go wherever you want?

Oh I thought it ate my previous post

Yeah, it's really not easy to break off the sphere grid path. Maybe the Blitzball thing works but I hated Blitzball. There's something inherently fun about the sphere grid anyway though, even though there's a lot of illusion of choice there. There's a reason it gets copied all the time.

pjbasis posted...

Level 1 locks don't hide anything but very short paths that have extra stat boosts.

I don't play blitzball early but do teleport spheres even let you go wherever you want?

Oh I thought it ate my previous post

Level 1 locks block you from going backwards from the starting position. Once you get those you can go back into where Kimarhi starts and go down whatever path you want.

If you don't like Blitzball, you can get spheres in Home and the Calm Lands that let you move around the grid easily. That's getting close to endgame though.

Teleport spheres let you teleport to any node activated by any character.

To this day, I still dont think Ive found a strategy RPG that I like better than this game. Fire Emblem: Three Houses and Jeanne dArc came close, but they still werent quite there.

This is where I bang the drum of 'PLAY FELL SEAL' extremely loudly

The New '20s have been absolutely phenomenal for gaming because even though AAA is getting very very safe, the people who played the same exact games we did as children are now grown up and making more games like them. What FF5 was once upon a time, Crystal Project is now for a new generation. What FFT was to our childhoods, Fell Seal can be to young kids. It's Final Fantasy Tactics 4 by another name, and while the aesthetic polish is not Square level (because it is, y'know, a literal smol indie company game), the gameplay takes the promise FFT offered and actually delivers on it wonderfully. Every class useful? Yup. Millions of combos to play with? Yup. Extreme distinctiveness of every toolkit so the endgame isn't just 'mash face with ninjas or dualwielding monks for infinite damage'? You betcha (though of course that's pretty good still). Just a wonderful, wonderful game top to bottom that all FFT fans should experience IMO.

MZero posted...

Once you get those you can go back into where Kimarhi starts and go down whatever path you want.

I...see. So it's extremely inefficient. Like there can't be a point to doing that instead of just going down the natural path set out for you. Kimahri's route sucks and then he has to start at the beginning of someone else's.

I rest my case. When I think meaningful choices I mean job systems, junctioning, even materia or just the joy of finding cool equipment in 9 and the options it gives your loadout.

pjbasis posted...

Man I wish I got to this "super easy" tactics. Tried a few times to get into the game just to get into some forced encounter with a party I wasn't serious about and then you can't go back and ugh

I don't trust people who say that FFT is super easy because they usually follow it up with "I also grinded a ton on the side". If you're just playing it straight through then it has multiple points that will trip up new players.

(Orlandu is pretty silly though).

FFT is very easy with a battle mechanics guide and fucking obtuse without one, IMO

Largely because a ton of classes are straight up nonfunctional. Imagine thinking 'oh I should get a few ranged attackers, I know! I'll train archers and black mages! :D' and then your team is just trash for a very long time

Meanwhile Johnny Monkstack facerolls the game because five monks punching the shit out of things will get results every single time, since Monk is a versatile and reliable class and at most they might need to put Item on the Monks for insurance. It's very imbalanced so you can have a very easy time or a very shitty one and it just depends on how you choose to play the game.

To add to the sphere grid convo - even if you could move characters from one grid to the next early on, is there even any incentive to do it? Like why turn Tidus into a black mage when now all of a sudden you cant hit wolves? Youd just be losing a valuable tool for the sake of having two black mages.