Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 8 - Plastic Codes Only Go To 7 Sorry

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you had a logical reason for a claim then I'm all ears but you come up and admit your frustration and are like "rawr claim" you aren't particularly compelling.

EDumey posted...

Jump is a risky option that kills anyone. It is high risk high reward. Can reset the Hammer info if successful, and can gain additional properties on successful scum jumps. But can also kill town, so Sultan would need to be careful with it.

False.
Both my role and Sultan's role says that Jump's success rate depends on the target.

If it could kill anyone, then that clause would be an outright lie. Additionally, what would cause the Jump to fail and incur negative status effects if it could kill anyone?

Thus, the likelihood of these abilities being alignment-based are not likely. Sultan's flip explicitly says his attack are dependent on the target. That is the only hint we have as far as resistances go.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Mmmm this response gives me absolutely no doubt that you are Town, Peaf. None whatsoever.

?

Leafeon13N posted...

If you had a logical reason for a claim then I'm all ears but you come up and admit your frustration and are like "rawr claim" you aren't particularly compelling.

Go find my post from yesterday afternoon on why we should be massing right now at a pre-mylo vote.

I already made the case, you should go read it.

Peace___Frog posted...

Keep it ambiguous so that they don't know whether to rb you or not jfc. Make them weigh their options.

My point is that I only have one optimal play. Unless scum thinks I'm a reckless idiot (which I wouldn't blame them for thinking), they'd be able to figure out I'd attack Dumey again.

Again, I don't think I pointed out anything that couldn't have been figured out with a little bit of thought.

Peace___Frog posted...

?

Scum knows there is power in Ctes. They don't forget about him when making that yell that you did.

Kirby321 posted...

My point is that I only have one optimal play. Unless scum thinks I'm a reckless idiot (which I wouldn't blame them for thinking), they'd be able to figure out I'd attack Dumey again.

Again, I don't think I pointed out anything that couldn't have been figured out with a little bit of thought.

honestly I dont disagree with this because that probably would have been my thought process if I were in Kirbys shoes

Leafeon13N posted...

If you had a logical reason for a claim then I'm all ears but you come up and admit your frustration and are like "rawr claim" you aren't particularly compelling.

The only reason to consider you Town this game is showing up at eod1. That's like, the only thing protecting you at all.

Let's keep that in mind, Red. You've done less this game than Isquen did.

Kirby321 posted...

But like... I don't get what I said wrong? I know it's generally not a good idea for town power to announce their night actions in advance, but anyone on the scum team with half a brain can make the conclusion that I'd Jump Dumey if I Hammered him already, failed, and fought so hard for him to claim his flavor.

Like... seriously, what else would have been my optimal choice lol

And if scum somehow has a way to protect against Hero kills without roleblocking, then this role is just a dumpster fire.

Like I said before. Han literally outlined a situation where you could test HB before, getting info out of an unknown AND potentially info on me out of the process.

I'm not saying that you choosing to Jump me if you are Town and genuinely believe I am scum is the wrong choice. But ANNOUNCING it has zero upsides for you, and multiple upsides for scum regardless of your alignment.

I think i see where you're going. You're saying I'm town because it looks like i forgot about ctes.
The conclusion is correct, but I'm saying that however strong ctes is, if Kirby is telling the truth then a vig shot is probably stronger. And scum can now work around that with complete confidence.

The alternative here is that Kirby is scum so he knows there's nothing for scum to work around with him, and they already decided that they're going to rb or kill ctes and jc.

Leafeon13N posted...

If you had a logical reason for a claim then I'm all ears but you come up and admit your frustration and are like "rawr claim" you aren't particularly compelling.

The logical reason is that there are several role claims that have popped up that we can't feel confidently assured in without knowing the full setup.

I mainly say this for the case of Ben, whose power could be town if the rest of town has very weak scanning power, which it seems to be. There are also six vanillas in this setup presumably, two of whom are dead and are Star Spirits, two who claimed Star Spirits after Ben claimed his role, and two others who did not claim Star Spirits at all.

Chaeix posted...

Go find my post from yesterday afternoon on why we should be massing right now at a pre-mylo vote.

I already made the case, you should go read it.

The star spirit theorizing post on ben?

I dont think its all that compelling.

Peace___Frog posted...

I think i see where you're going. You're saying I'm town because it looks like i forgot about ctes.
The conclusion is correct, but I'm saying that however strong ctes is, if Kirby is telling the truth then a vig shot is probably stronger. And scum can now work around that with complete confidence.

The alternative here is that Kirby is scum so he knows there's nothing for scum to work around with him, and they already decided that they're going to rb or kill ctes and jc.

What do we do then, Peaf? Kirby could not kill Dumey. That confirms some lying is going on, methinks.

Kirby321 posted...

False.
Both my role and Sultan's role says that Jump's success rate depends on the target.

If it could kill anyone, then that clause would be an outright lie. Additionally, what would cause the Jump to fail and incur negative status effects if it could kill anyone?

Thus, the likelihood of these abilities being alignment-based are not likely. Sultan's flip explicitly says his attack are dependent on the target. That is the only hint we have as far as resistances go.

Jump also gives you a strongman or whatever it's referred to shot, implying that at least one scum has resistance. That's it. That's the explanation. You jump on the wrong scum, get a negative effect for it, and the role still makes sense.

This is JUST like you tunneling on the SBell flavor thing thinking it couldn't be a red herring just to hint to scum about flavor scans being in the game. The role gives you enough info to understand how it could have failed, but doesn't outright tell you the state of the game.

Official Votals as of 164

Red [3] - (Ulti), JC, Kirby, Ulti
Kirby [1] - (Peaf), Dumey, (Ulti)
Hb [1] - Peaf
Ben [0] - (Plum), (Plum), (Kirby)
Dumey [0] - (Kirby), (Han), (JC)
Han [0] - (Ulti), (Dumey), (JC), (Plum)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day ends at 9:00 P.M. Eastern (or 9 hours from now).

Peace___Frog posted...

The alternative here is that Kirby is scum so he knows there's nothing for scum to work around with him, and they already decided that they're going to rb or kill ctes and jc.

The other possible scenario is that scum has another role that can counteract mine.

And if that's the case, then that's just gg as far as town power meta goes.

I'm gonna be malding if Dumey is a Spiked Parabuzzy or some crazy shit like that lol

Honestly jc, the fact that both Ulti and Kirby are on red right now is enough for me to give him the benefit of the doubt for today

EDumey posted...

Jump also gives you a strongman or whatever it's referred to shot, implying that at least one scum has resistance. That's it. That's the explanation. You jump on the wrong scum, get a negative effect for it, and the role still makes sense.

This is JUST like you tunneling on the SBell flavor thing thinking it couldn't be a red herring just to hint to scum about flavor scans being in the game. The role gives you enough info to understand how it could have failed, but doesn't outright tell you the state of the game.

I don't have that Strongman ability. I don't get any of Sultan's jump perks besides my next jump being risk-free if I get a kill on an anti-town. No streaks or anything like that.

Keep floundering, Dumey

Kirby321 posted...

The other possible scenario is that scum has another role that can counteract mine.

And if that's the case, then that's just gg as far as town power meta goes.

In which case they can manipulate the situation further than we can theorize at this time. Great job.

Peace___Frog posted...

Honestly jc, the fact that both Ulti and Kirby are on red right now is enough for me to give him the benefit of the doubt for today

No fair
I'm only on Red because I want a mass claim, as I've clearly expressed to JC multiple times today

Hell, I even said I was giving JC my sword with my vote on Red today.

Though I honestly have no qualms lynching red if he's going to continue to lurk and do nothing.

That post reads like you're scum salty at all the claimed town power, Kirby.

UltimaterializerX posted...

My reason for wanting a claim from you is reducing the PoE and winning. Fair?

No. If i could reduce poe in a meaningful way I'd have done it by now.

Peace___Frog posted...

In which case they can manipulate the situation further than we can theorize at this time. Great job.

... Are you even listening to me? I'm not going to repeat myself:

Kirby321 posted...

My point is that I only have one optimal play. Unless scum thinks I'm a reckless idiot (which I wouldn't blame them for thinking), they'd be able to figure out I'd attack Dumey again.

Again, I don't think I pointed out anything that couldn't have been figured out with a little bit of thought.

Scum, especially on day 3, would love to give their sword to town on a town lynch.

I would like to point it out that Ben's claimed role is functionally worthless right now. We're not even considering him power.

Kirby321 posted...

... Are you even listening to me? I'm not going to repeat myself:

And my point is that you are scum who doesn't need to consider the scum response to you.

From a pure info perspective lynching Ben would give us a lot to work off of tomorrow. It's true. And he's effectively vanilla at this point outside of ensuring that no scum fakeclaims a star.

Peace___Frog posted...

And my point is that you are scum who doesn't need to consider the scum response to you.

I see how it is. Fine then. If you refuse to acknowledge my arguments and simply want to dismiss them as "I think you're scum, therefore your argument is irrelevant", then vote for me, you coward :P

Why is your vote on Hb anyway? What's your stance on every living player in this game?

Red, can you at least confirm your role doesn't interact with star spirits in any way? Just that.

Kirby321 posted...

I don't have that Strongman ability. I don't get any of Sultan's jump perks besides my next jump being risk-free if I get a kill on an anti-town. No streaks or anything like that.

Keep floundering, Dumey

I'm not talking about your fake claim. I'm talking about analyzing Sultan's role for how Hammer/Jump works. You're insisting you're right about how it works and that I must be scum because of it, but I gave a very possible alternative on how the role is read and you don't want to accept it because it doesn't confirm your bias.

Hbthebattle posted...

Red, can you at least confirm your role doesn't interact with star spirits in any way? Just that.

I can confirm this, yes.

That is, confirming no interaction.

After spending literally all of t2 attacking Sultan and getting upset at others for being like "wtf man" then saying he didn't have energy to go after anyone else, he was asked to give other reads. Let's go to topic 3, page 2:

Hbthebattle posted...

here's one: isquen's probably not scum

Leafeon13N posted...

Reason?

Hbthebattle posted...

This is how he acts every game, and nearly every game he gets early lynched because of it. People on that lynch, especially Han and Lea who were making similar comments about how going after Sultan's fuckups is "lazy", should know better, and it makes me suspicious. Also, yeah, he's mindmelded with me a bit with some of his comments, so I think he's probably safe for now.

We know that Lea was town. Ctes and han have their bit now, so let's assume that han is town here.

It's fine for town to be wrong. I've been wrong a ton this game. But this interaction reads like hb is having trouble faking scum hunting. He latched onto Sultan for something silly back in topic 1 and was still on it over 700 posts later. And he called isq town as one of his few other reads, but didn't pull the terrible in the tiebreaker. If hb is scum, then he knows both options are town/ town. And i think he was worried about how it would look on the votals.

I felt that Hb was Scummy in topic 1, iirc. Same with Kirby, really.

I find myself, though, thinking of the suggestion that Scum would sit back and let Town eat itself alive. With who is left alive, I do believe Scum is present right now.

But, nobody is sitting back more than Ben.

Kirby321 posted...

vote for me, you coward :P

Why is your vote on Hb anyway? What's your stance on every living player in this game?

I did earlier. I pulled it off after your claim but that doesn't mean i suddenly buy you. Do you remember what happened when dumey told me i was avoiding conflict? Don't tempt me here.

My vote is on hb because i think he is scum and has been scummy. In day 1 he was chummy with sbell, said "someone defending Sultan must be scum" (hint - it was sbell), and called isq town but didn't want to save him in the tiebreaker.

Alright, so, I think that's now everyone who has confirmed that they don't interact with Star Spirits. Thus it makes the most sense to me that scum does in some way. Which means... Ben looks pretty bad.

Also, like, Ben is right in that Ctes and I are Town, but he's so confident, as opposed to people who are Town (JC/Peaf) having had a LOT of difficulty dealing with me today.

I wish I could see Ben's confidence wrt the other claims we've had today!

Feels like we're revisiting day 1, where Peaf says ben is totes town and then han says things :)

i have no idea how you I was chummy with sbell day 1. His first interaction with me was calling me out for something inane. Han is literally right there for someone who was infact chummy with Sbell.

Peace___Frog posted...

Feels like we're revisiting day 1, where Peaf says ben is totes town and then han says things :)

I don't recall this. :)

Kirby321 posted...

But given how weak Town's scanning power has been (we don't seem to have a traditional Cop or full Flavor Cop as I initially thought we would have), I'm a little hesitant to immediately conclude Ben's role is scum.

This is a defense of Ben, and also probably a Scum statement outright.

Peace___Frog posted...

It's fine for town to be wrong. I've been wrong a ton this game. But this interaction reads like hb is having trouble faking scum hunting. He latched onto Sultan for something silly back in topic 1 and was still on it over 700 posts later. And he called isq town as one of his few other reads, but didn't pull the terrible in the tiebreaker. If hb is scum, then he knows both options are town/ town. And i think he was worried about how it would look on the votals.

Going back to my hb post briefly - in retrospect last game scumbell did a lot of "oh this town person agrees with a lot of my thoughts, so that's why i think they're town." Hb did the exact same thing with isq on day 1.

Alright, let's look at this objectively.
If Ben is Town, Ulti is Town, as it'd be suicide for Scum to claim a Star Spirit and then not be one. Same is true of Plum, in all honesty.

Do you guys see Ben Scum/Ulti Town as a possibility?

Peace___Frog posted...

Going back to my hb post briefly - in retrospect last game scumbell did a lot of "oh this town person agrees with a lot of my thoughts, so that's why i think they're town." Hb did the exact same thing with isq on day 1.

Isquen LITERALLY said he agreed with me first and I concurred! You are making shit up now.

Hbthebattle posted...

Do you guys see Ben Scum/Ulti Town as a possibility?

Yes.

Kirby321 posted...

But given how weak Town's scanning power has been (we don't seem to have a traditional Cop or full Flavor Cop as I initially thought we would have), I'm a little hesitant to immediately conclude Ben's role is scum.

Quoting the original post to piggyback off of Han:
You immediately concluded that ben's role was scum because you said "third flavor scanner" where Sultan was the first in your eyes. Tell me, when you saw what powers you got as backup, your reaction was "oh sweet I'm a flavor scanner now"?

Hbthebattle posted...

Isquen LITERALLY said he agreed with me first and I concurred! You are making shit up now.

You were asked what reads you had. You said isq was town because you agreed with him on things.

Peace___Frog posted...

You were asked what reads you had. You said isq was town because you agreed with him on things.

Hbthebattle posted...

Isquen LITERALLY said he agreed with me first and I concurred! You are making shit up now.

See: quoted items from #184. These are all from t3 page 2 if you want to go check for yourself.

Peace___Frog posted...

You were asked what reads you had. You said isq was town because you agreed with him on things.

It wasn't the only reason!