Board 8 > Paper Mario Mafia Topic 8 - Plastic Codes Only Go To 7 Sorry

(+) Yeah! (+)

Alive (11):
Ben
Ctes
Dumey
Han
Hb
JC
Kirby
Peaf
Plum
Red
Ulti

Shredded:
LD1: Isquen Eldstar, TOWN Vanilla
KN1: Lea Bombette, TOWN Bomb
KN1: SBell - Koopa Bros., KOOPA TROOP Ninjas
LD2: Sultan Mario, TOWN Hero
KN2: death Lady Bow, TOWN Doctor
KN2: Cody Muskular, TOWN Vanilla

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day ends at 9:00 P.M. Eastern (or 26 hours from now).

Kirby321 posted...

I think we are close to having this game solved.

This is the scummiest fucking thing I've heard.

Hey JC, can we kill Kirby? We'll get info regarding Ben from it, and i know you love a lynch that gives info

I'll combine my posts since they were all one response to Peaf

undefined posted...

Hb Kirby Ulti ???

I definitely need to reread but we have weekly civ soon so I'm not sure how far along I'll get tonight

I think Ulti and Hb are town. Why does Ulti defend me as hard as does yesterday on such a simple little thing about his role? It makes sense as an overconfident town who thinks he might have unlockable powers. I dont think it makes sense as a grand scum plan to confirm himself off of me. Because what if I did visit him last night? Was his plan to say he had powers unlocked, or that nothing happened? Unless scum knows already exactly how this works, I think its too risky he could be caught in a lie.

And i already said my reasons on HB a bit okay

Han and Ctes are conditionally confirmed town as far as I care. The gambit is too risky as a scum pair

I think that leaves Kirby, Red, Plum, ??? for me

PunishedBen posted...

And i already said my reasons on HB a bit okay

Han and Ctes are conditionally confirmed town as far as I care. The gambit is too risky as a scum pair

I think that leaves Kirby, Red, Plum, ??? for me

I don't think it's actually that risky. Last game death announced an inno scan on han the day before mylo

Peace___Frog posted...

I don't think it's actually that risky. Last game death announced an inno scan on han the day before mylo

I know I know...I was there. But has scum EVER been content to be as vague as Han and Ctes are being? I am trusting they have good reason. But look, I will only give them one more day to be confirmed. And by confirmed I mean they have to prove they are town in a way that doesn't require lynching one of them. Honestly I hope they cant be confirmed tomorrow, because that would be easy game. Han, Ctes, Kirby, Red.

Only reason I have left Red alone is because Han assures me he is town, and Han is the Red whisperer.

Doesn't scum usually prefer to be vague?

I'm not saying this as an argument against them for today's lynch - I'm saying it to dispel the notion that they CANNOT be scum and playing devil's advocate here, in the vein of JC forcing me to admit that you can technically still be scum (even though I think that's extremely unlikely).

Official Votals as of 6 (no I did not just copy Kirby's but I will confirm they are accurate)

Red [2] - (Ulti), JC, Kirby
Kirby [2] - (Peaf), Dumey, Ulti
Ben [1] - (Plum), Plum, (Kirby)
Hb [1] - Peaf
Dumey [0] - (Kirby), (Han), (JC)
Han [0] - (Ulti), (Dumey), (JC), (Plum)

6 to lynch 23 hours Yada Yada

PunishedBen posted...

Only reason I have left Red alone is because Han assures me he is town, and Han is the Red whisperer.

That is not quite my opinion.

I've agreed with most everything Red has said, and his actions end-of-day 1 are Townish. Because of that, I feel good about him. But I can acknowledge that he hasn't done much aside from those two things, so I am eagerly awaiting Red to post more and give his opinion of the game state, since I don't like feeling like I had a Townread of a guy, and thinking he may possibly be paying me lip service to stay on my good side.

Red fits into the "Did something Townish but is not at the VERY Town level" tier.

Peace___Frog posted...

Doesn't scum usually prefer to be vague?

I'm not saying this as an argument against them for today's lynch - I'm saying it to dispel the notion that they CANNOT be scum and playing devil's advocate here, in the vein of JC forcing me to admit that you can technically still be scum (even though I think that's extremely unlikely).

I mean, I'll be paying attention to who Han wants to lynch today. The only reason him and Ctes would plan this gambit and not immediately full claim today as scum is if they know their claim is too fragile to be believable and they just need to survive one more day. I dont think its Mylo, so that is fine with me.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Ben, who was in my poe, made a bad claim, but Ulti soft-claimed interacting with his role, but that's been proven to be a lie.

Ctes I feel better about. Death is dead, I think you're Town, so I still need to do some review, but my poe still includes Dumey.

Peace___Frog posted...

How in the fuck do you feel better about ctes

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I would love to not have to explain simplicities to Town today and I'm tired so I'll be going to bed soon, but can we please not say "wow, Han did LITERALLY AS GOOD as every other member of Town, therefore he must be Scum".

Like, my track record this game is EQUAL to yours, Peaf.

He invited me to his shell game last night.

This is also such a clearly UNPLANNED way to transition into revealing info on Ctes... I mean lol it at least tells you Peaf and Han are never scum together. But I think it makes the chances of Han/Ctes being a gambit like 5%.

Red really wants to keep us waiting, huh?

Maybe if we talked at night instead of talking during the morning.

At this rate, a Day 3 special is pretty much gonna be inevitable. Lovely.

As much as I'd like to push everyone else to claim, keeping Red out of the spotlight for even a moment would just afford him a chance to slink away.

K kirby so here is the deal. I want to believe you(Sort of?). But you are pushing a lynch that is not the person you are claiming a scan on. That feels bad at a glance. Opportunistic scum at worst(I was tired I had to sleep).

I did get a chance to poke around and remember Paper Mario mechanics.

So I think its pretty clear how Mario works. I don't like to look at flavor but I know at the very least what my flavor is weak towards or whatever.

The only thing I don't recall. That maybe someone with a better memory than me might know. Is there a reasonable scum counterpart to this mafia Mario? Because that'd probably be one of the few way kirby makes this claim as scum I think. I only played PM once and my memory of it is...near nonexistent outside a general memory of the art style. If there isn't a counterpart I think I'm less likely to entertain scum kirby.

The best thing I can think of when you say that is Jr. Troopa who initially can be jumped and hammered, but as you encounter him a bunch of time he's eventually immune to both standard attacks as he can fly and has a spike on his head.

He's not part of the Koopa Troop though, he does his own thing.

I can't find any post from Kirby that hints towards being Luigi or backup.

Though I can find that he criticizes Ben for not doing exactly that.

If Sultan targeted anyone I don't think he made it very clear. Seemed like Ben at first but later on it seems pretty apparent he did not.

It's a shame that I slept a bit late today so that red left again. And that Death is dead.

But for some hours with just me.

I actually like the idea of a Jr. Troopa role counterpart to Mario. When you first fight him it's basically a tutorial you can only win. Then next time he hides in his shell but hammer hits him. He starts flying later but your boots get stronger and so you can still hit him. When he gets both the spike and fly your standars attacks don't work unless you have some specific badges to counter it. Some of your partners can still hit him. Anyway, the idea here is some role that can upgrade itself to be immune to jump or hammer down the line. He also gets a wand later on. Given he keeps getting defeated but gets back maybe he can be succesfully hit without dying or something. Perhaps Jr. Troopa would make the most sense as independent given he kinda is and the mafia is specifically called Koopa Troop here. I can see it work. Not sure what he should do beyond just trying to not die to Mario but I'm sure a host could work something out.

This has been it for flavor speculation with Ctes.

I was trying to read plum's post to see if it made sense he was Klevar Vanilla.

I don't think there's anything that doesn't track though Plum had been very against Ben despite the knowledge that the more star spirits there are, the more utility does Ben's supposed role have.

Also the amount of supposed vanillas is starting to get into numbers where you raise eyebrows.

Also for that theory about SBell's flip and Sultan getting that description since it doesn't mention Fice T by name.

I don't think it holds. It's word by word exactly what you get for using tattle on him. A lot of tattles does mention characters by name. Gourmet Guy to name one. Also the description doesn't match Sultan's flip at all, it's not a glimpse, it's a lot of knowledge about the person.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I was trying to read plum's post to see if it made sense he was Klevar Vanilla.

I don't think there's anything that doesn't track though Plum had been very against Ben despite the knowledge that the more star spirits there are, the more utility does Ben's supposed role have.

Also the amount of supposed vanillas is starting to get into numbers where you raise eyebrows.

I guess it depends on what your role is right? My initial reaction is this is a dumb role for town to have. At best it confirms a few town targets but there is now way that is a primary scanner.

You and Han are saying you confirm each other, but if you are masons for example then maybe this is a game where Sultan/JC/Ben is all of then scanning we have,

Bht that doesnt make sense to me. That doesnt feel right, so Im assuming you arent masons and instead are some form of stronger scanning role which means JC or Ben is lying.

Part of me wants to just play mountainous mafia and throw out everything. Based entirely on play I think Han is scum.

But obviously there Are slight problems with that.

Reading through Ulti, it's a bit difficult to follow his train of thoughts for most parts, but for the purpose of trying to read it as Misstar the star spirit..

He believes Ben almost immediately, works. But his first hint as claim is after Hb says he can confirm you don't have to be a star spirit to be Vanilla and Ulti agrees him though quickly correct that what he meant to say was that star spirits don't have to be vanilla. I don't think it makes to much sense to state that in this context because it wasn't what was being discussed exactly, but this is not a point where the claim doesn't track with previous actions.

So for looking back at plays for the newly claimed, if there's one that doesn't track, it's Kirby.

If I try to setup meta I want to lynch Ben immediately. Wrt play purely I'm not sure I would have formed much of an opinion. Lynching Kirby also works but I'm considering if it might be worth it letting him live for now and see what happens then. I can't think of a scum team without him that would not have to deal with him.

The absolute best move currently would be trying to confirm you or Ulti. Last night it would have been scanning Ulti or simply not stating anything before an eventual red claim.

That post got a bit messy because it was all about Ben and then I added Kirby in the middle afterward. Last paragraph refers to Ben.

I dont think Kirby claims off safe list Luigi.

Now Kirby claiming backup as scum is a different question entirely

He's in in it yes. He goes with Mario to Peach's Castle and is revealed to have escaped when it is lifted into the sky. He has no relevance for the rest of the game, but you can read a diary of his that shows he's jealous of Mario going on all these adventures.

But yeah, same as when Hb said stuff about twink in his flavor. Scum has a darn flavor list. It doesn't make sense to think like that.

I think the best play is letting Kirby live today and see the state of the game tomorrow. If he's telling the truth, scum kinda have to deal with him.

I think we lynch Ben or maybe one of the many claimed vanillas because there is almost no chance they're all true. I think Ulti looks the worst of the claimed vanillas.

I get the push on red but it feels like a shot in the dark to me.

Also this is why it sometime feels like I go under the radar a bit (heard this almost every game I have played). There's basically no one around in my best hours lol.

That and that you voted for the deadline that makes me miss the most interesting part of the day.

ctesjbuvf posted...

But yeah, same as when Hb said stuff about twink in his flavor. Scum has a darn flavor list. It doesn't make sense to think like that.

I think the best play is letting Kirby live today and see the state of the game tomorrow. If he's telling the truth, scum kinda have to deal with him.

If we kill whichever of you or Han is weaker, by your evaluations, then we can trust the other.

I still am not comfortable with either of you.

PunishedBen posted...

This is also such a clearly UNPLANNED way to transition into revealing info on Ctes... I mean lol it at least tells you Peaf and Han are never scum together. But I think it makes the chances of Han/Ctes being a gambit like 5%.

This is a good find with the history, but i think Han is devious enough to know that of he hard clears someone who is not confirmed, then it will raise eyebrows.

ctesjbuvf posted...

That and that you voted for the deadline that makes me miss the most interesting part of the day.

Yeah I'm not going to be around for deadline either.

Peace___Frog posted...

If we kill whichever of you or Han is weaker, by your evaluations, then we can trust the other.

I still am not comfortable with either of you.

Yes, but the flip would give scum information tonight. Not touching this more increases the chances of town getting something off tonight. Especially if Kirby is actually speaking the truth.

A person paired with Han pushing a "safe" lynch, where have I seen this before

Also there are much better ways to confirm me than killing Han and then most likely having me shot tonight.

Peace___Frog posted...

A person paired with Han pushing a "safe" lynch, where have I seen this before

What's the safe lynch even here

Anyway
Han is town
JC is town
Ctes is town
Peaf is probably town
Hb is probably town
Plum is probably town
Kirby is unknown but I want to keep him alive today.

Ben, Ulti, red, Dumey left. Unless something unexpected happens, those are the lynches I can get behind. I have changed my opinion on Ben a billion times.

ctesjbuvf posted...

What's the safe lynch even here

The claimed vanilla point that you made a bit ago. I don't disagree that a vanilla can be on the table, but it's weird to write off the power claims like that.

I still don't understand how you can put me and hb into the same group.

I'm not writing off the power claims, other than that we're not touching JC. Ben is still a very good option and if Kirby is alive tomorrow we absolutely consider him then, with the extra info there should be, because I seriously don't think scum can risk keeping a lot like that alive.

Funny, Ben is the only one i can really believe!

Why is it weird thinking both you and Hb are town? I think you and Hb are town for very different reasons.

Also Ulti is not just considered because I think he's the least likely vanilla, I don't think he has looked great and I think he's playing into people expectations of him and safe choices a bit too much compared to how stubborn I've seen Ulti before.

Peace___Frog posted...

Funny, Ben is the only one i can really believe!

Why is that again

ctesjbuvf posted...

if Kirby is alive tomorrow we absolutely consider him then, with the extra info there should be, because I seriously don't think scum can risk keeping a lot like that alive.

If you and Han are both scum and Kirby is town, then this is setting up for the final mislynch of the game for the win. That's why i can't just take you at your word.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Why is that again

His actions make sense from both a player perspective and a power perspective. Plum has gone down a bit on my town list, it's true, but he is right when he says that we've been evaluating flavor and setup far too much. If we go just back to what people have said and done, then Ben checks out for me.

I won't disagree that his lynch gives us a lot of info, but that's not a good sole reason to lynch him.

Let's say Kirby is town. That already makes it unlikely both him and I are alive tomorrow and one of us almost certainly ate a roleblock in that event unless we get lucky and lynch the roleblocker today. But if we do get to that part and no more scum are dead, then I will say claiming probably makes sense for Han and I as well.

But scum almost have to deal with Kirby if he's alive after today. Scans are dangerous but killing is something else.