Board 8 > Hogwarts Legacy: IGN 9/10

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UshiromiyaEva
02/09/23 11:37:00 AM
#352:


PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
A lot of posts here but nobody is talking about how JK Rowling has said that before toilets, wizards used to shit their pants and magic their waste away. And I think that's just the perfect indication of her intelligence level and writing skills.

This is low hanging fruit though.

Mahoutokoro is way fucking funnier for JK stupidity.

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PrivateBiscuit1
02/09/23 11:39:25 AM
#353:


Nothing is funnier than willingly shitting your pants so that you can do something you think is cool.

Because you're still shitting your pants.

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Thorn
02/09/23 11:41:59 AM
#354:


Paratroopa1 posted...
And bear in mind, it's not just the other characters saying that, which could simply be a reflection of their shitty views. But I said 'the book's framing' for a reason, because the narration also treats Hermione like she's an idiot. She is, by word of god, in the wrong, and I always thought this was super weird as a kid. I sort of just accepted it because I was a kid and I thought I must not know better, but now that I'm older I look back on it like, wow, fuck that book.
Very much this. I always found that subplot and how it was handled very weird, even as a kid. I just didn't make the thematic connections until much later and "oh boy"

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Kingfrost
02/09/23 11:54:53 AM
#355:


You know what doesn't help the trans community? Harassing and shaming people, and spoiling the game for others. Maybe it makes you feel better, but it doesn't change anyone's mind. I see a lot of that on twitter. And it drives people into the arms of anti-trans people who will have their undivided attention.

I think it's worth discussing the problematic parts of Harry Potter. Even fans discuss it. And if you don't want to buy the game, that's a fantastic personal choice. You can even ask other people not to buy the game or other harry potter merchandise. But I see too many people going further than that. It feels just as spite-based as the people who say they're buying 3 copies.

And no, none of that is worse than what the trans community faces. But since when did a lesser wrong right a greater wrong?
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UshiromiyaEva
02/09/23 11:56:39 AM
#356:


Spoiling Harry Potter is core to the Harry Potter fanbase.

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Grimlyn
02/09/23 11:58:41 AM
#357:


the whole house slaves thing is just very weirdly handled in the first place and it just reads like Rowling wanted a subservient familiar species for everyone to have, thought hey they're like slaves and named them so, even threw in a plot in the first movie about Harry freeing a slave................... but then just still wanted to keep the concept because that's all she imagined them to be so she's attempts backpedal and justify the rest of the species which just makes it even worse.... and then Harry owns his own slave lol

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LightningStrikes
02/09/23 11:58:49 AM
#358:


The problem with that is people using a small number of incidents of harassment to try and invalidate all criticism. I dont think anybody here supports harassing people. I personally have seen more harassment of people not covering the game.

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Thorn
02/09/23 12:03:53 PM
#359:


Kingfrost posted...
You know what doesn't help the trans community? Harassing and shaming people, and spoiling the game for others. Maybe it makes you feel better, but it doesn't change anyone's mind. I see a lot of that on twitter. And it drives people into the arms of anti-trans people who will have their undivided attention.

I think it's worth discussing the problematic parts of Harry Potter. Even fans discuss it. And if you don't want to buy the game, that's a fantastic personal choice. You can even ask other people not to buy the game or other harry potter merchandise. But I see too many people going further than that. It feels just as spite-based as the people who say they're buying 3 copies.

And no, none of that is worse than what the trans community faces. But since when did a lesser wrong right a greater wrong?
I posted this on Discord where we were discussing the boycott and issues around it and basically sums up my thoughts on it.

Yeah, it's a bit hard for me to tell how much this was (probably good intentioned) people coming off way too strong or anti-trans victim complex but personally absent more information I personally do not assume someone who buys Hogwarts Legacy is a transphobe or anything like that. I'll feel disappointed, but that's about it. It's only when more context comes in that I'll start forming more concrete judgments. (Did you know about JKR's stances? Are you being an asshole and intentionally flaunting your support of the game in a way that clearly signals you know?)

But like even if you knew about JKR and bought the game anyway even then I'm not really jumping to transphobia. It's just, my sense of disappointment shifts from a more vague "Sucks that JKR is benefiting from that purchase" to a more "Oh, okay, so probably gonna be sus about this person's conviction on trans rights going forward."

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masterplum
02/09/23 12:58:19 PM
#360:


LightningStrikes posted...
The problem with that is people using a small number of incidents of harassment to try and invalidate all criticism. I dont think anybody here supports harassing people. I personally have seen more harassment of people not covering the game.

I haven't at all? But maybe I don't hang out in ... conservative spheres where this would happen?

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masterplum
02/09/23 1:00:27 PM
#361:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
Hey you know what everybody loves?

YouTube video essays!

But seriously, if anyone is interested in a breakdown of a lot of general HP fuckoffery and a pretty big section for the house elves, this is a pretty good watch (or just listen really, it's technically a video but there's not any actual reason to actually watch it).

https://youtu.be/-1iaJWSwUZs

Ooh I need to watch this

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LightningStrikes
02/09/23 1:16:32 PM
#362:


Me neither plum. Its happening in the comments of anybody who says they wont cover it.

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GavsEvans123
02/09/23 3:08:13 PM
#363:


FoolFantastic posted...
I hate when these conversations turn toward people attacking the series itself, which I feel is missing the point. Yes, the books are flawed, but they also mean a lot to a lot of people.

I wonder if people attacking the series retroactively is a defence mechanism of sorts to try and downplay the disappointment they feel towards JK Rowling. If people try to convince themselves they never liked Harry Potter and it was never good to begin with, then it might not hurt so much. Of course, if Harry Potter really was never good to begin with, this whole controversy wouldn't be happening because the series would never have blown up the way it did, and it would have been long forgotten by now.

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htaeD
02/09/23 3:12:19 PM
#364:


A little of that and maybe also a little of 'maybe I should take off my nostalgia glasses since I havent read the books in a decade'

Thats at least how I feel about the series now.

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UshiromiyaEva
02/09/23 3:23:14 PM
#365:


I've read the first 4 books 3 to 5 times each back in the day, but definitely just a once over last that.

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masterplum
02/09/23 3:25:46 PM
#366:


GavsEvans123 posted...
I wonder if people attacking the series retroactively is a defence mechanism of sorts to try and downplay the disappointment they feel towards JK Rowling. If people try to convince themselves they never liked Harry Potter and it was never good to begin with, then it might not hurt so much. Of course, if Harry Potter really was never good to begin with, this whole controversy wouldn't be happening because the series would never have blown up the way it did, and it would have been long forgotten by now.

You are seeing the exact thing in people saying the reviews for the game are biased. I have seen so many comments by people boycotting the game of "Well the game is bad anyways and the reviewers are just caught up in nostalgia"

If the game sucked it wouldn't be a boycott! You wouldn't have bought it anyways!

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KamikazePotato
02/09/23 4:11:46 PM
#367:


GavsEvans123 posted...
I wonder if people attacking the series retroactively is a defence mechanism of sorts to try and downplay the disappointment they feel towards JK Rowling.
This is absolutely part of what's happening. It's why 2-hour long videos like the one just posted make me roll my eyes. Stuff like the goblin-Jew comparison and the House Elves is worthy of pointing out and criticizing, but nitpicking every detail of a 26 years old children's series is just internet click fodder to draw in people upset with Rowling.

Thorn posted...
But like even if you knew about JKR and bought the game anyway even then I'm not really jumping to transphobia. It's just, my sense of disappointment shifts from a more vague "Sucks that JKR is benefiting from that purchase" to a more "Oh, okay, so probably gonna be sus about this person's conviction on trans rights going forward."
But why is one game a bellweather for how someone feels about an issue? Like, to use an earlier example from this topic, by using the same logic you could say that someone who saw Top Gun Maverick personally supports scientology. People are making Hogwarts Legacy way too much of an arbitrary line, and it's going more harm than good.

I say this as someone who actually wants to play the game but is going to "buy it used" so that my money doesn't support Rowling.

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Kenri
02/09/23 4:21:41 PM
#368:


GavsEvans123 posted...
Of course, if Harry Potter really was never good to begin with, this whole controversy wouldn't be happening because the series would never have blown up the way it did
Counterpoint: lots of terrible garbage is extremely popular

masterplum posted...
If the game sucked it wouldn't be a boycott! You wouldn't have bought it anyways!
Counterpoint: lots of people intentionally consume terrible media, especially if it's part of the pop cultural zeitgeist

(But that being said, yeah if you weren't going to buy it anyway then you're not really boycotting it, by definition -- though I guess you could still participate in the boycott by other means.)

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RaidenGarai
02/09/23 4:22:50 PM
#369:


I think it all depends on the line. People will move those goalposts if they really wanted to see Top Gun Maverick to make themselves feel okay about it, but they'll attack those who want to play Hogwarts Legacy if that doesn't matter as much to them. What they like is fine to watch for whatever reason they have to make themselves feel good about it, but what they don't like is harmful and anybody who plays it is wrong.

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masterplum
02/09/23 4:23:12 PM
#370:


KamikazePotato posted...
But why is one game a bellweather for how someone feels about an issue?

I've found transgender issues to be extremely fiery compared to anything else. A famous artist in magic that gathering had a similar coming out as a TERF and their are people who are harassed for choosing to use cards with her art even though it is completely detached from her and she makes no money from it at this point.

I think it's just an extremely fiery subject where people have absolute unchangeable views.

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SirChris
02/09/23 4:29:41 PM
#371:


masterplum posted...
I've found transgender issues to be extremely fiery compared to anything else. A famous artist in magic that gathering had a similar coming out as a TERF and their are people who are harassed for choosing to use cards with her art even though it is completely detached from her and she makes no money from it at this point.

I think it's just an extremely fiery subject where people have absolute unchangeable views.

It's mostly people trying to take back power that had been denied to them or empathy for that struggle.

I get it I just realize it isn't 'the play' or accurate to paint such a wide brush.

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xenosaga
02/09/23 4:30:28 PM
#372:


masterplum posted...
I've found transgender issues to be extremely fiery compared to anything else.

A lot of that has to do with politicians on the right realizing they lost the war on gay marriage and needed a new spooky other to scare their dumb as bricks base out to vote. Cue nonstop lies and propaganda to vilify an at-risk group.

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masterplum
02/09/23 4:33:55 PM
#373:


xenosaga posted...
A lot of that has to do with politicians on the right realizing they lost the war on gay marriage and needed a new spooky other to scare their dumb as bricks base out to vote. Cue nonstop lies and propaganda to vilify an at-risk group.

Oh sure. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is mistakenly fiery.

It's just fiery

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htaeD
02/09/23 4:34:24 PM
#374:


Yeah the current insults hurled at the trans community is basically the same scaremongering they used against everyone else before.

This is absolutely part of what's happening. It's why 2-hour long videos like the one just posted make me roll my eyes. Stuff like the goblin-Jew comparison and the House Elves is worthy of pointing out and criticizing, but nitpicking every detail of a 26 years old children's series is just internet click fodder to draw in people upset with Rowling.


That guy in particular has a history of doing long-ass videos and also has literally fought against a lot of the transphobic rhetoric put out by the BBC.
I doubt he made that video (purely) for clicks.

It basically just comes down to certain aspects of Rowlings beliefs and views coming through in her works that most people didn't notice until after her behavior on twitter started (and also when her post HP books came out)

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masterplum
02/09/23 4:35:45 PM
#375:


Long YouTube videos are the shit

Give me some action button reviews all day

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htaeD
02/09/23 4:38:38 PM
#376:


I still need to finish Noah Gervais' video on the Lincoln Road.

Some parts of your country look pretty nice.

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Thorn
02/09/23 4:45:00 PM
#377:


KamikazePotato posted...
But why is one game a bellweather for how someone feels about an issue? Like, to use an earlier example from this topic, by using the same logic you could say that someone who saw Top Gun Maverick personally supports scientology. People are making Hogwarts Legacy way too much of an arbitrary line, and it's going more harm than good.

I say this as someone who actually wants to play the game but is going to "buy it used" so that my money doesn't support Rowling.
Personally I'd say it's a matter of how public and vocal a figurehead JKR is on the matter of anti-trans legislation and dehumanization. Cruise isn't quite the same for Scientology, I think. But maybe I'm poorly informed on the matter. (Because it may come up - no I have not watched Top Gun Maverick but I also have no interest in doing so so I wouldn't call it some kind of stand on my part. I have looked at films with Cruise in them with a very sus eye the past, what, 10, 15 years though.)

It's not incorrect to state that basically as a consequence of capitalism that any purchase is going to eventually contribute to your money going someone bad eventually. And that for certain things, like cellphones for instance, you're basically compelled by society to support companies with atrocious working conditions simply because cellphones have become such a vital part of life.

So I guess that all boils down to me saying the line is admittedly very arbitrary despite that being an unsatisfactory answer. Like I said in my first post I think each person has to draw that line for themselves. And FWIW like I said I don't like declare my line is the line or that anyone crossing it is guilty of supporting transphobia. In a vacuum I don't even really consider it a sign of anything at all. It's just that depending on the circumstances around it I may use it to be a bit more wary of someone in what they self-describe as, that's all. It's not like I am passing an unrevokable sentence on anyone.

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masterplum
02/09/23 4:47:39 PM
#378:


For the record I thought this topic was very enlightening and I'm glad it didn't become about trains

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Lopen
02/09/23 4:53:32 PM
#379:


I would identify Tom Cruise as a figurehead for Scientology way before I'd identify JKR as a figurehead for anti-trans legislation but that's probably because there way fewer of the former.

On topic I would say trying to make a Hogwart's Legacy purchase or lack thereof some sort of huge human rights statement stems more from people wanting to feel like they're part of a movement than an actual useful stand to take. People want to make inaction (not buying a game) some sort of thing to pat themselves on the back for-- the reality is it's pretty much the lowest hanging fruit you can grab while pretending to contribute anything. And yes I would say people being outraged about gamers streaming it and stuff are doing way more harm than good at this point.

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KamikazePotato
02/09/23 4:53:40 PM
#380:


htaeD posted...
That guy in particular has a history of doing long-ass videos and also has literally fought against a lot of the transphobic rhetoric put out by the BBC.
I doubt he made that video (purely) for clicks.

It basically just comes down to certain aspects of Rowlings beliefs and views coming through in her works that most people didn't notice until after her behavior on twitter started (and also when her post HP books came out)
Yes, but discussions like this inevitably veer into "actually, Harry Potter was always poorly-written", as well as pointing out details that have nothing to do with Rowling's problematic viewpoints, which muddies the narrative. The linked video does is as well. It's an attempt to put down a work so that people can separate themselves from it without feeling sad.

Which, by the way, is pretty terrible PR! You're not going to convince fans of Harry Potter not to support Rowling by telling them that their taste in media is bad. Especially if it's a nostalgic childhood series. That video has done it, this topic has done it, and plenty of other places on the internet have done it (example: gamingcirclejerk subreddit). For as much as some people feel strongly about this issue, you'd think they'd try to express it in a way that wasn't completely counterproductive.

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FoolFantastic
02/09/23 4:57:57 PM
#381:


I feel like the problem with Rowling is she uses the success of her series to justify her transphobia. Rowling is openly using her fanbase as a shield, so buying her products means you are agreeing to be part of that shield (even if you don't necessarily agree with her views)

I don't really get the sense Tom Cruise views every ticket sale as another person giving the thumbs up to Scientology. It's Rowling who has decided to make her fanbase culpable through her statements.

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Kenri
02/09/23 5:04:31 PM
#382:


Re: Scientology, I think it being a religion gives it a massive shield against (even well-deserved) criticism, especially in America. The whole topic of "is this religion bad actually?" is kinda untouchable (and sometimes for good reason because people will use it as a veneer for their racism, or whatever).

Whereas transphobia is just like, "I've decided I need some group to beat on for political points. What's the smallest, weakest one I can find?" It comes across as incredibly needless, cruel, and disingenuous, and that's not even mentioning how lots of anti-trans positions are actually an attack on the rights of literally everyone else as well.

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AriaOfBolo
02/09/23 5:05:09 PM
#383:


Lopen posted...
stems more from people wanting to feel like they're part of a movement than an actual useful stand to take. People want to make inaction (not buying a game) some sort of thing to pat themselves on the back for

I'm so tired

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masterplum
02/09/23 5:05:41 PM
#384:


FoolFantastic posted...
I feel like the problem with Rowling is she uses the success of her series to justify her transphobia. Rowling is openly using her fanbase as a shield, so buying her products means you are agreeing to be part of that shield (even if you don't necessarily agree with her views)

I don't really get the sense Tom Cruise views every ticket sale as another person giving the thumbs up to Scientology. It's Rowling who has decided to make her fanbase culpable through her statements.

I think it's simply that there aren't a lot of exscientologists out there.

If there were as many of those as transgender people I think you would see a bigger backlash

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Lopen
02/09/23 5:06:57 PM
#385:


Sorry Bolo. I'm not really judging anyone who isn't getting it for that reason as much as judging people who are telling other people they shouldn't.


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TomNook
02/09/23 5:08:35 PM
#386:


Lopen posted...
On topic I would say trying to make a Hogwart's Legacy purchase or lack thereof some sort of huge human rights statement stems more from people wanting to feel like they're part of a movement than an actual useful stand to take. People want to make inaction (not buying a game) some sort of thing to pat themselves on the back for-- the reality is it's pretty much the lowest hanging fruit you can grab while pretending to contribute anything.


That reminds me of Keef's latest video.

https://youtu.be/a--Cc3Kd_kE

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masterplum
02/09/23 5:08:47 PM
#387:


Evangelism makes people feel self righteous yes. I think there is some of that for people who are harassing others for their choice

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LightningStrikes
02/09/23 5:13:02 PM
#388:


In addition to what others have said, Tom Cruise is not nearly as tied to Top Gun Maverick as Rowling is to Harry Potter. Tom Cruise is a producer and absolutely benefits from ticket sales but he doesnt own and have final say over the IP like Rowling does. Other than Hogwarts Legacy in which Rowling was barely involved Rowling is a much bigger part of Harry Potter creatively too. There are definitely levels here.

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scarletspeed7
02/09/23 5:13:41 PM
#389:


masterplum posted...
Evangelism makes people feel self righteous yes. I think there is some of that for people who are harassing others for their choice
The problem is that evangelism is no longer relegated to the religious quarter. The concept of evangelism has permeated politics and society at large, to the point that people argue with the illogicality of the zealous as much for a game like Hogwarts Legacy as anything else equally secular. Evangelical thought is the death of reason, it stands in complete opposition to it. The idea of blind faith is exactly why you have absolute nutter butters saying, "People I don't like don't like this game, so I will buy copies for everyone I know to own the libs." There's no thought involved in that - it's just base emotion controlling that reptile part of your brain.

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masterplum
02/09/23 5:14:12 PM
#390:


TomNook posted...
That reminds me of Keef's latest video.

https://youtu.be/a--Cc3Kd_kE

I found the use of persona 5 music hilarious for some reason

Also didn't realize she got a percent of every universal ticket. That's crazy

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Natalie
02/09/23 5:20:52 PM
#391:


KamikazePotato posted...
But why is one game a bellweather for how someone feels about an issue?
Trans rights is one of the most visible and polarizing political issues in the US and UK right now. Tons of people are within a degree or two of separation of a trans/NB person and those policies are baked into mainstream political platforms and frequently debated. Rowling has been especially vocal about her beliefs regarding trans people, both in the media and in her more recent literature, and while not all the potential buyers of the game are clued into this, a lot of them will have at least some passing knowledge.

When I see someone I know, who I know is at least somewhat aware of trans people and issues and of Rowling's politics, when I see them buy the game, it tells me that there is a line where this person will choose comfort and convenience and gratification over a minor sacrifice to stand with the minority who needs their support. And I don't necessarily decry that, because we all make various compromises in our day-to-day lives, but I'm not going to ignore it. It's the easiest fucking thing in the world to not buy a piece of media. You can buy it used for console, you can pirate it, you can even go through one of those scummy CD key websites. I am sick to death of watching this play out where trans people go to the cis majority and say "We're hurting, this is hurting us, please stop it," and cis people ignoring them or rationalizing their decision or making excuses about how it's just one purchase or how Rowling won't really benefit from it or any other justification for telling the people most affected that they're wrong.

I don't condone harassment of people who are innocently playing the game, I don't think people should have to make a charitable contribution to prove their allegiance to the cause. The spoilers I think are pretty funny honestly, considering the history of Snake Kills Mumblecore, and the backlash against it reminds me a lot of the way people focused on broken windows and trash fires to try and delegitimize the protests; if your response to wizard game spoilers is to alter or fortify your political stances rather than form opinions of the individuals doing it, you've taken a wrong turn. It's just discouraging how much people will, uh, "cis-splain" these issues instead of owning up to the ethics of their decisions.
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masterplum
02/09/23 5:23:09 PM
#392:


Natalie posted...
Trans rights is one of the most visible and polarizing political issues in the US and UK right now. Tons of people are within a degree or two of separation of a trans/NB person and those policies are baked into mainstream political platforms and frequently debated. Rowling has been especially vocal about her beliefs regarding trans people, both in the media and in her more recent literature, and while not all the potential buyers of the game are clued into this, a lot of them will have at least some passing knowledge.

When I see someone I know, who I know is at least somewhat aware of trans people and issues and of Rowling's politics, when I see them buy the game, it tells me that there is a line where this person will choose comfort and convenience and gratification over a minor sacrifice to stand with the minority who needs their support. And I don't necessarily decry that, because we all make various compromises in our day-to-day lives, but I'm not going to ignore it. It's the easiest fucking thing in the world to not buy a piece of media. You can buy it used for console, you can pirate it, you can even go through one of those scummy CD key websites. I am sick to death of watching this play out where trans people go to the cis majority and say "We're hurting, this is hurting us, please stop it," and cis people ignoring them or rationalizing their decision or making excuses about how it's just one purchase or how Rowling won't really benefit from it or any other justification for telling the people most affected that they're wrong.

I don't condone harassment of people who are innocently playing the game, I don't think people should have to make a charitable contribution to prove their allegiance to the cause. The spoilers I think are pretty funny honestly, considering the history of Snake Kills Mumblecore, and the backlash against it reminds me a lot of the way people focused on broken windows and trash fires to try and delegitimize the protests; if your response to wizard game spoilers is to alter or fortify your political stances rather than form opinions of the individuals doing it, you've taken a wrong turn. It's just discouraging how much people will, uh, "cis-splain" these issues instead of owning up to the ethics of their decisions.

It's like eating meat tbh. If you can't look me in the eye and tell me you enjoy killing animals to eat them then you should be a vegetarian

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Obellisk
02/09/23 5:46:18 PM
#393:


masterplum posted...
It's like eating meat tbh. If you can't look me in the eye and tell me you enjoy killing animals to eat them then you should be a vegetarian

What is the purpose of a Chicken if not for consumption?

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Grimlyn
02/09/23 5:58:01 PM
#394:


I repeat again the very honest truth that people really don't like to admit is that they very much do not sincerely care about trans people. I mean an actual emotional feeling for what we're dealing with in 2023. They may think oh that sucks but it doesn't effect them or anyone they love so they can safely ignore it and go about their day which 100% has literally nothing to ever do with the existence of a trans person anyways, which is very much the case for most people. It's a bit off but I don't entirely disagree with plum's analogy about our detachment from eating meat. I'd just change it's not that people have to "enjoy killing animals" but rather they don't care if animals die for their consumption. For many people they are so detached from trans lives that they don't really care what's happening to us, they may even think it sucks, but it won't guide any of their choices another way.

like fucking lmao we're seriously on to whatabout Scientology to brush off the dehumanization and legal erasure of trans people worldwide that's actually relevant and on the rise, holy hell folks

and to clarify I don't mean this to say that's everyone who buys Hogwarts, no, I know people who have who are just very detached from it all but when hearing about it do actually display a modicum of empathy - although note, said disengagement is very much still a PROBLEM, albeit not an individuals fault entirely when frankly the media at large does not like to discuss trans people outside of those who actively campaign against us

but then there's a lot more folks who try to engage who really just do not care, clearly lack any knowledge on the subject, never involve themselves unless it gets in the way of their good times, and aren't at all interested in changing that. and it's so often the same exact people every time who whine about social movements because they don't want to hear it, it's not important to them - they don't care.

(and of course there's the batch of full-on malicious assholes who DO care, quite strongly, but y'know in the negative way and they hate trans people and are happy to campaign against us)

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MoogleKupo141
02/09/23 6:03:12 PM
#395:


if chickens could get on Twitter and express their feelings about being eaten like trans people can express their feelings about JK Rowling Id probably stop eating meat

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LightningStrikes
02/09/23 6:07:16 PM
#396:


It is very true that people who know members of minority groups are much more likely to be supportive of that minority. From what I have seen data suggests about a third of people know a trans person. Thats not high enough, and shows how important visibility and representation is.

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KamikazePotato
02/09/23 6:18:52 PM
#397:


Natalie posted...
The spoilers I think are pretty funny honestly, considering the history of Snake Kills Mumblecore, and the backlash against it reminds me a lot of the way people focused on broken windows and trash fires to try and delegitimize the protests; if your response to wizard game spoilers is to alter or fortify your political stances rather than form opinions of the individuals doing it, you've taken a wrong turn.

Okay but what is the angle here

How does spoiling the game help decry Rowling's positions at all

You have to understand that there's a ton of people who know very little about Rowling's position in the first place. If their first interaction with this issue is getting spoiled on a game they were looking forward to playing, they're not going to look deeper into it. They're just going to go "wow, those guys who spoiled me are jerks"

Maybe you think those people should have taken moral stances from the start but guess what! Lots of people are ignorant of issues or haven't given it a lot of thought. It's not possible to convince all of them, but you'll convince more than the literal 0 you'll get by attacking the thing they like, intentionally ruining it via spoilers, or harassing streamers

tl;dr - Left-wing people desperately need to learn how PR works

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SirChris
02/09/23 6:30:51 PM
#398:


KamikazePotato posted...
Okay but what is the angle here

How does spoiling the game help decry Rowling's positions at all

You have to understand that there's a ton of people who know very little about Rowling's position in the first place. If their first interaction with this issue is getting spoiled on a game they were looking forward to playing, they're not going to look deeper into it. They're just going to go "wow, those guys who spoiled me are jerks"

Maybe you think those people should have taken moral stances from the start but guess what! Lots of people are ignorant of issues or haven't given it a lot of thought. It's not possible to convince all of them, but you'll convince more than the literal 0 you'll get by attacking the thing they like, intentionally ruining it via spoilers, or harassing streamers

tl;dr - Left-wing people desperately need to learn how PR works
Otoh right wing people trying to call people abominations and them not getting canceled says a lot about so called moderates too.

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KamikazePotato
02/09/23 6:35:44 PM
#399:


SirChris posted...
Otoh right wing people trying to call people abominations and them not getting canceled says a lot about so called moderates too.
Yes but that doesn't change anything I said. Do you want to feel good about being on the right/moral side of an argument, or do you want to win in a less satisfying way

Too many people on the left choose the former. I don't think the message of "supporting Hogwarts Legacy indirectly supports anti-trans policies" is wrong, but the way it's been marketed has been...less than optimal

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SirChris
02/09/23 6:44:03 PM
#400:


KamikazePotato posted...
Yes but that doesn't change anything I said. Do you want to feel good about being on the right/moral side of an argument, or do you want to win in a less satisfying way

Too many people on the left choose the former. I don't think the message of "supporting Hogwarts Legacy indirectly supports anti-trans policies" is wrong, but the way it's been marketed has been...less than optimal
Plenty of people have done it right. The fact the wrong way gets signal boosted is not a coincidence my friend.

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Kingfrost
02/09/23 6:49:17 PM
#401:


For me, it's just hard for me to say "I'm not going to play this game," when Rowling won't even care or notice. For her, this is supplementary income on top of all the money she's getting from the shit ton of everything else Harry Potter related. I'll buy it used, because I still don't want my money going to her.

On the other hand, I did cancel my netflix subscription after their comments on Dave Chapelle's anti-trans act as being 'smart' and 'thoughtful'. Because netflix very much cares about subscriptions being cancelled. And it's something they'll definitely notice. I even commented that I was cancelling due to their stance on the subject. I can only hope they actually read it.

If I thought it would change people's minds or policy, I wouldn't play it at all. I just don't think it would. And I know maybe cancelling Netflix didn't either, but I felt like that had a much greater chance for success or at least sent a message to the company that there are people who don't like their stance.
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