Board 8 > Hogwarts Legacy: IGN 9/10

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah I dont think (most) left-wing people need to learn PR, its just that the right-wing has an enormous media apparatus they can exploit to soften themselves and make left-wingers look like the unreasonable ones.

Letting capital control almost all of the media was a mistake.

KamikazePotato posted...

Okay but what is the angle here

How does spoiling the game help decry Rowling's positions at all

You have to understand that there's a ton of people who know very little about Rowling's position in the first place. If their first interaction with this issue is getting spoiled on a game they were looking forward to playing, they're not going to look deeper into it. They're just going to go "wow, those guys who spoiled me are jerks"

Maybe you think those people should have taken moral stances from the start but guess what! Lots of people are ignorant of issues or haven't given it a lot of thought. It's not possible to convince all of them, but you'll convince more than the literal 0 you'll get by attacking the thing they like, intentionally ruining it via spoilers, or harassing streamers

tl;dr - Left-wing people desperately need to learn how PR works

This goes back, I think, to the idea of the Model Minority. The group who acts with callous indifference towards persecuted people is treated as not knowing any better, as needing to be reached and handled with kid gloves, but the members of the minority group are disallowed from lashing out or unproductively expressing their feelings, receiving admonishment for "setting back the cause." I didn't say spoilers were a good, proactive thing to do, I said I think they're funny and harmless and there's a part of me that enjoys the little bit of power to make sure that nobody can have the nice thing as long as this is going on. It's unreasonable to expect only the most patient, reasoned discourse be carried out between these groups.

Being nice fairly clearly gets us nowhere. Kinda tired of it. I haven't engaged in spoiling and probably won't, but it's not like we have much ground to lose

LightningStrikes posted...

Yeah I dont think (most) left-wing people need to learn PR, its just that the right-wing has an enormous media apparatus they can exploit to soften themselves and make left-wingers look like the unreasonable ones.

Letting capital control almost all of the media was a mistake.

I don't think left wingers acting like assholes has anything to do with media. (I hope I don't have to continue to couch this statement based on all my other posts in this topic)

Left wingers do dumb shit sometimes too

AriaOfBolo posted...

Being nice fairly clearly gets us nowhere. Kinda tired of it. I haven't engaged in spoiling and probably won't, but it's not like we have much ground to lose

It has nothing to do with losing ground and more just don't be a crappy person. Purposefully making people upset is bad.

Obellisk posted...

When i buy a $60 toy I throw the box away in the appropriate manner, this does not cost me anything. I'm not told in order to throw it away I have to spend an additional $60.

It's free to not buy a game too. Just takes a bit of extra effort to pirate it or whatever, just like it takes a bit more effort to clean up after yourself.

The point is you can always do something in a shittier way to save on some effort/cost. But it's very normal for people to deem you an asshole if you do.

people are just sick of having to hold people's hands and baby-steps their way through explaining why transphobia is bad and having to have these conversations all the time

some hypothetical person not knowing why JK Rowing is problematic shouldn't be their problem. the people who are threatened shouldn't have to educate people on an individual basis about the situation.

Im not saying there are no stupid left-wingers. Im saying the media amplifies the worst.

A much more economic way to look at it is that there are negative external damages caused by your $60 purchase, so if you don't make up for them, you're exploiting the economy. It's super normal to be judged for that.

Another example is going to restaurants without tipping. You're creating negative externalities to your server that you have to make up with a tip.

Obviously we want to eliminate the externalities if possible. But until then, you gotta deal with them.

Kingfrost posted...

Because netflix very much cares about subscriptions being cancelled. And it's something they'll definitely notice.

Netflix makes over 30 bil a year

How the hell would they notice you more than JKR would?

foolm0r0n posted...

Netflix makes over 30 bil a year

How the hell would they notice you more than JKR would?

They really care about subscriber numbers and its a reoccurring transaction

I know but the scale is so many orders of magnitude larger.

I do agree in general that boycotting just this game is weak, like I said before the goal should be widespread knowledge of JKR across all mediums.

I don't understand your words foolmo but I'm pretty sure I disagree with them.

masterplum posted...

Purposefully making people upset is bad.

how many demographics have won rights by just sitting quietly and putting up with everything nicely until everybody decided to treat them better? And how many have done so by breaking a few eggs? Do you see spoiling a video game on the same level as denial of health care? How much abuse are we expected to take with a smile, in your world?

AriaOfBolo posted...

Do you see spoiling a video game on the same level as denial of health care?

so you want to yuk someone's yum because the government hates you? that seems like the mature approach to this.

I mean I know trans people who still enjoy Harry Potter and just think Rowlings is an asshole. Separating the art from the artist is a thing and trying to say that anyone who plays this game doesn't care about trans rights in a meaningful way shows you're losing sight of what the goal is and just trying to make anyone who disagrees with you on anything "them"

Like I just don't think boycotting the game matters in any meaningful way.

AriaOfBolo posted...

how many demographics have won rights by just sitting quietly and putting up with everything nicely until everybody decided to treat them better? And how many have done so by breaking a few eggs?

None, and all, but I don't think most of what I've seen regarding Hogwarts Legacy is breaking eggs to further a cause. It's either performative, or an emotional outburst for the sake of making the aggrieved party feel better. Which is understandable but counterproductive.

The actual way to 'break eggs' in this scenario is something I can't discuss because it would probably get me modded.

AriaOfBolo posted...

how many demographics have won rights by just sitting quietly and putting up with everything nicely until everybody decided to treat them better? And how many have done so by breaking a few eggs? Do you see spoiling a video game on the same level as denial of health care? How much abuse are we expected to take with a smile, in your world?

Spoiling the game for random players is not in a million years going to help your cause. If anything it would make people who were largely indifferent actively be angry.

This isnt hurting the government, or a specific company, or a specific group. Its hurting random ass people who have nothing to do with it and just liked a book published two decades ago

KamikazePotato posted...

The actual way to 'break eggs' in this scenario is something I can't discuss because it would probably get me modded.

This. Ive been waiting for people to [REDACTED] It seems like if you really have nothing left to live for then [REDACTED]

Breaking an egg doesn't always mean you're making an omelet. You could also just be throwing them on the floor.

Making people who are largely indifferent actively angry is the purpose behind a lot of political action.

I don't think spoilers really accomplish anything but that's not why.

For me, not that anyone particularly cares, but it seems pretty simple. Buying this game does not make you a bigot, a transphobe or someone who likes Rowling's views. Not at all. But it does make you someone who, at some level, arguably tiny, is OK with your money going to a person who uses that money to further anti-trans hatred, and who sees the continued support of her franchise as vindication for those hateful beliefs. And being OK with that does not make you evil, nor does it not make you a horrible person, but nevertheless you are OK with that.

Could have organized and torched the trucks delivering the games to the stores. Wanna stop people from playing it or just judge people who decide to play it?

Kenri posted...

Making people who are largely indifferent actively angry is the purpose behind a lot of political action.

I don't think spoilers really accomplish anything but that's not why.

When is the last time you saw people shut down a highway and literally anything good was said about those people or their cause.

Kenri posted...

Making people who are largely indifferent actively angry is the purpose behind a lot of political action.

People who consume Harry Potter stuff are not necessarily indifferent.

Is the political action trans rights or is it to make people not want Harry Potter stuff.

Lopen posted...

Is the political action trans rights or is it to make people not want Harry Potter stuff.

The latter helps accomplish the former
(edited for clarity)

masterplum posted...

This isnt hurting the government, or a specific company, or a specific group. Its hurting random ass people who have nothing to do with it and just liked a book published two decades ago

Yep. It's targeting individuals, not institutions. There's a difference that some people don't get.

masterplum posted...

When is the last time you saw people shut down a highway and literally anything good was said about those people or their cause.

Pretty much all protests that are too old to remember, like MLK's. Dude even has a holiday now.

masterplum posted...

When is the last time you saw people shut down a highway and literally anything good was said about those people or their cause.

The point is (very explicitly) not to have good things said about you, the point is to make caving to your demands less disruptive than allowing your protests to continue. If every store that sells Harry Potter merch just happens to burn down they'll stop selling it. They'll be furious with you but you'll win.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/7/9/AAcM16AAEKxH.jpg

So sick of the fucking "protests do nothing talking point". Because if peaceful protests get ignored and inconveniencing protests are just too annoying for people to support, you're just arguing for violence to accomplish goals, which I'm sure you'd hate most of all!

Kenri posted...

If every store that sells Harry Potter merch just happens to burn down they'll stop selling it. They'll be furious with you but you'll win.

And your victory will be a lack of Harry Potter merchandise

Trans rights will not have advanced one iota

Great victory tho

Kenri posted...

The point is (very explicitly) not to have good things said about you, the point is to make caving to your demands less disruptive than allowing your protests to continue. If every store that sells Harry Potter merch just happens to burn down they'll stop selling it. They'll be furious with you but you'll win.

Would you?

Suppose you actually did this. What do you gain? One transphobic rich person is hurt and draconian anti trans laws are passed? Thats the goal?

I don't think posting spoilers is a particularly good way of fighting back (I can't imagine it having enough reach to be effective... then again, I also feel like this isn't actually a common thing and transphobes are just yelling about a few rare occurances because it makes their side look better). However, saying that people shouldn't inconvenience others with their activism is the height of privilege and stupidity. Protests that block a bridge inconvenience a bunch of random people too, but the idea is to create awareness. The people stuck in traffic that day will learn about the protest's cause, and then it depends on the kind of person they are if they respond with "I understand and sympathize with your plight" or "fuck you for slightly inconveniencing me". The second group aren't worth concerning yourself with because they were never going to be on your side in any meaningful way. Reaching the first group, however few they may be, is what matters.

If these spoilers truly are rampant, I like to think at least a few people will make an effort to understand why and come out the other side a better person. If that bothers you, I guess just be grateful that the biggest thing you have to worry about is someone maybe spoiling a video game. Other people have to worry about a hell of a lot more.

Lopen posted...

a lack of Harry Potter merchandise

Trans rights will not have advanced one iota

pick one, you're underestimating Rowling

Here is why this analogy falls apart

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/8/3/AANz_VAAEKxL.png https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/8/4/AANz_VAAEKxM.png

You don't have the support for mass action. 60% of Americans don't think Trans people exist. Those people are going to despise you and that's a majority that can really screw you over.

• Yes it sucks
• Yes it would be better if it wasn't that case
• Burning every copy of harry potter would be a terrible strategic decision

masterplum posted...

Would you?

Suppose you actually did this. What do you gain? One transphobic rich person is hurt and draconian anti trans laws are passed? Thats the goal?

That is what we're talking about, right? If you want to shift focus to broader protections for trans people I can name some other buildings that are flammable.

AriaOfBolo posted...

pick one, you're underestimating Rowling

You're not realizing she becomes a martyr in this scenario.

just ignore plum

let it go, and move on

Kenri posted...

That is what we're talking about, right? If you want to shift focus to broader protections for trans people I can name some other buildings that are flammable.

And it's possible I would uh, never say that I supported that in a message here

But burning random copies of Harry Potter and associated games because the creator profits off of them is not that

Lopen posted...

You're not realizing she becomes a martyr in this scenario.

becomes? she already is, people say mean things to her sometimes and that's enough for her fans

No. She's not. She's a martyr in an Internet arguments sense which is small time compared to this. You're talking about literal terrorism to stop selling things. Trans rights would more likely be set back decades than gain any ground.

colliding posted...

just ignore plum

let it go, and move on

I was but I've seen this argument so fucking often the last month that I couldn't help myself. So many people saying that the Just Stop Oil people shouldn't be annoying in museums, but they also shouldn't block traffic, and obviously they shouldn't engage in ecoterrorism, while a dude SET HIMSELF ON FIRE ON THE STEPS OF SCOTUS to protest pollution and it was completely ignored. Ditto for BLM and kneeling vs marching vs rioting

same vibes as this, it's infuriating
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/9/2/AAcM16AAEKxU.jpg

Sorry for... Strategically trying to think about how to best achieve your goals?

You want me to say "Yeah man, you burn down all the buildings. That will make everyone come together and no longer be transphobic"?

Kingfrost posted...

Because netflix very much cares about subscriptions being cancelled. And it's something they'll definitely notice.

Netflix is about to eliminate password sharing through multiple households. They didn't give a shit then, and don't give a shit now.

ZeroSignal posted...

Netflix is about to eliminate password sharing through multiple households. They didn't give a shit then, and don't give a shit now.

They've already backtracked on that due to backlash.

Kingfrost posted...

They've already backtracked on that due to backlash.

Not really, it's still coming. Netflix Canada here and I just got an email asking my family's account to set a primary location by the 21st.

Lopen posted...

You're not realizing she becomes a martyr in this scenario.

Hitler, Robert E Lee, Bin Laden all became martyrs too.

That means they lost. Not sure why people think that's a bad thing.

ZeroSignal posted...

Netflix is about to eliminate password sharing through multiple households. They didn't give a shit then, and don't give a shit now.

They think this will increase subscriptions though

masterplum posted...

Sorry for... Strategically trying to think about how to best achieve your goals?

You want me to say "Yeah man, you burn down all the buildings. That will make everyone come together and no longer be transphobic"?

at best it comes across as tone deaf

at worst you're an outsider talking down to someone or policing how one should feel/react

either way it's being a bad ally

masterplum posted...

Here is why this analogy falls apart

This data makes the opposite of your point. 38% is huge for that question, I almost don't believe it.

Good old naive foolmo thinking the "right" side will be seen as a hero