Board 8 > Fire Emblem Topic 3: Sigurd for Smash

(+) Yeah! (+)

I like to think she got the job specifically because of how much red and blue she uses, lol.

I think the male designs are mostly okay (besides the protagonist lmao) but the female designs, from their faces to their costumes, are almost universally bad. Don't want to be overly down on Engage but it's shown me nothing to look forward to, and I've tried looking.

What specifically do you dislike about the designs? There's a few people saying this but no-one is really saying why, aside from some of them being 'cutesy' or 'uninteresting' which is kind of vague.

The outfits are overdone. Too much unnecessary adornment, super bright colors, etc. I prefer FE when it's more grounded. Yes, it's always been anime, but there's a difference between anime and anime. It's especially egregious when you look the old characters they're bringing back as fanservice, and all of them look way less ridiculous.

Faces are harder to describe, but in general the female characters trend far more towards moeblob territory than in previous games. Bigger eyes, smaller mouths, rounder facial bone structures with less defined features, and everything is just flat-out brighter. It's simply not an art style I like or have ever liked, especially for fantasy games. And while this mostly affects the female characters, it's affected some of the male characters too. Marth looks girlier than ever, and Ike has no muscle mass. Ike! Look at how they massacred my boy.

These are things I could forgive if the plot looked good, but it frankly looks awful. Just a fanfiction fest. Zero reason to be excited for that considering the series has already indulged in crossovers multiple times.

LuisSera posted...

What specifically do you dislike about the designs? There's a few people saying this but no-one is really saying why, aside from some of them being 'cutesy' or 'uninteresting' which is kind of vague.

I dunno man why do some people like specific things others do like and dislike things others don't? It's really hard to explain subjective things. Like if someone tells you "I don't like bell peppers" and you ask them why what can they really say except "I just don't like the taste"?

I don't really like looking at most of the designs here much compared to the other characters across the series. They're not all bad and there are a few I like (see: Wyvern Rider girl from a dozen or so posts back and the chocolate girl from the last trailer) but I'd say like 70% of them are just kind of 'eh'.

And for the record I have no problem with the 'overdone outfits' or 'too anime'. Those are both things I actually tend to like.

KamikazePotato posted...

The outfits are overdone. Too much unnecessary adornment, super bright colors, etc. I prefer FE when it's more grounded. Yes, it's always been anime, but there's a difference between anime and anime. It's especially egregious when you look the old characters they're bringing back as fanservice, and all of them look way less ridiculous.

Faces are harder to describe, but in general the female characters trend far more towards moeblob territory than in previous games. Bigger eyes, smaller mouths, rounder facial bone structures with less defined features, and everything is just flat-out brighter. It's simply not an art style I like or have ever liked, especially for fantasy games. And while this mostly affects the female characters, it's affected some of the male characters too. Marth looks girlier than ever, and Ike has no muscle mass. Ike! Look at how they massacred my boy.

These are things I could forgive if the plot looked good, but it frankly looks awful. Just a fanfiction fest. Zero reason to be excited for that considering the series has already indulged in crossovers multiple times.

That's fair enough. There's no denying it appears tonally brighter than the 3DS games or Three Houses, which were already more stereotypically 'anime tropey' than anything before them. It reminds me of the art style of the first FE Warriors. It doesn't strictly appeal to me as such, but it doesn't put me off either, kind of like how the more over the top idol songs in Tokyo Mirage Sessions I tolerated rather than enjoyed, but for some people it's going to be absolute anathema.

In terms of how Engage is shaping up as a whole, I can see myself applying my usual approach to games where I'm willing to overlook the stuff I either don't like or aren't crazy about if it's winning enough credit with me with the stuff I do like.

Honestly the aesthetic doesn't matter that much to me, and while I DO care about the story, as long as the gameplay is good and the characters are actually interesting I can forgive both.

And those are both really things you can't get a real sense of until the game is actually out, so the previews aren't bothering me too much.

My issues are also magnified by the main character designs probably being the actual worst I've ever seen. That's really important to me in a game. I'd like to apologize to Luso Clemins and Rex for making fun of them for so long.

https://preview.redd.it/0ad6gd25cb0a1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=6e416416938996caeda801ce27554da02d483480

https://preview.redd.it/szsi87x5cb0a1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=7e2360fd3909081bb0924700ffd45861c9d1b2f9

Why does the male version have knee guard suspenders???

"Ike, father of Sothe's children"

do what now

KamikazePotato posted...

My issues are also magnified by the main character designs probably being the actual worst I've ever seen. That's really important to me in a game. I'd like to apologize to Luso Clemins and Rex for making fun of them for so long.

https://preview.redd.it/0ad6gd25cb0a1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=6e416416938996caeda801ce27554da02d483480

https://preview.redd.it/szsi87x5cb0a1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=7e2360fd3909081bb0924700ffd45861c9d1b2f9

Why does the male version have knee guard suspenders???

These both look at least 10 times better than Rex.

Micaiah is actually snowballing too much now and I think I need to start pulling her back. Don't know if a Lord who would undoubtedly have a story based promotion time needs to be level 13 already in chapter 4.

I don't feel like other are falling behind though? No way I'm using Meg, everyone else is at 11 other than Laura, and Aram who's at 9 going on 10 with 6 BEXP going into the next chapter.

This...this WAS the game where easy mode is actually normal mode, right? I didn't pick an actual easy baby mode?

That sounds about correct for levels where you are.

You might have forgotten how Radiant Dawn is structured since you last played it, but everyone should be pretty close to level 20 by the time you get to chapter 10 or so. You might even have a promotion or two.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/8/2/AAeolZAAD6aS.jpg

Based on the SF expected averages, my Micaiah is +3 speed over what's expected, lol

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/8/3/AAeolZAAD6aT.jpg

CHARACTER DESIGN IS MY PASSION??

Oh I can swap skills around in this one??

Taking this literally pointless use of Xancel off of Leonardo to put it on Edward then.

tcaz2 posted...

Oh abso-freaking-lutely. Look up Hakos Baelz for a Vtuber she designed and Sei Shounagon for the FGO character she designed.

She does very color-explosion, tons-of-patterns, whatever the subgenre of bright and colorful Gothic Lolita style is called stuff.

I actually think both of those are better than at least Alear (and it's not because Alear is toned down by comparison), but really my point was more that her style needs to be toned down way way more to be a good fit for FE. Like down to 0 and then maybe they can go up a little, as a treat.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

CHARACTER DESIGN IS MY PASSION??

Definitely a character indicative of the art style buff from PoR to RD.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/6/65/FE9izuka.png/revision/latest?cb=20091205192226

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/7/74/Izuka_RD.png/revision/latest?cb=20120319011305

Now he's a freaky weirdo with detail!

KamikazePotato posted...

Faces are harder to describe, but in general the female characters trend far more towards moeblob territory than in previous games. Bigger eyes, smaller mouths, rounder facial bone structures with less defined features, and everything is just flat-out brighter. It's simply not an art style I like or have ever liked, especially for fantasy games.

I was feeling like Lyn and Celica looked off in that trailer but couldn't put my finger on it, but this explains how I was feeling perfectly.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh I can swap skills around in this one??

Taking this literally pointless use of Xancel off of Leonardo to put it on Edward then.

Yes! Worth noting, however, that certain base skills cost 0 capacity if the character comes with it by default (such as Edward's Wrath) but if you take it off them and decide to put it on them again later it will use its capacity cost as if you were assigning it to a new unit.

I believe we're coming up on one of the worst Knights in the series (by circumstance of the trifecta of bad availability, map design for when they are available, and awful base joining level.)

"Which knight?"
Yes.

I assume you mean Fiona.

The character I am determines to use and just save scummed over 30 hard resets to get her 3 points of strength and speed over 4 Bexp levelups.

CAN'T STOP ME, I'M MAKING THIS HAPPEN.

Heartbreaking: The worst unit you know looks really cool actually

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I assume you mean Fiona.

The character I am determines to use and just save scummed over 30 hard resets to get her 3 points of strength and speed over 4 Bexp levelups.

CAN'T STOP ME, I'M MAKING THIS HAPPEN.

Can I spoil something BEXP related for RD for you?
Edit: And also, the "yes" could've also meant Meg, but then I have to tack on her what the fuckish stat spread.

After that many resets, if the secret is that Bexp always gives 3 points no matter what then I am aware lol. Hard to miss at that point.

Meg I would have actually liked to use because she was adorable but those stats were just too far gone.

Fiona gained 3 levels in the map itself with the help of her maxed Hit, Crit, and Mt Iron Lance I made her, and she popped a great spread of stats for each one, so I feel vindicated.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/8/8/AAeolZAAD6dg.jpg

Also what is this part 1 unit acquisition I swear?? It's just throwing busted over leveled units at me on the left, and underleveled forced project units on the right.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

After that many resets, if the secret is that Bexp always gives 3 points no matter what then I am aware lol

Precisely. Sort of. Those 3 guaranteed points will be weighted by the unit's stat growths, so if you have something maxed that they already have good growth in, it'll start hitting some lower-end ones. If you really want to game the system, bump something up to *near* their next level and savescum the start of a map instead.

Having Paragon helps tremendously with that (so Fiona's not COMPLETELY in the gutter) and whenever you get Blossom, you can start passing that around too.

A pity it's impossible to do a blind second playthrough because then you get to play with passing around the stat bands that give 5% bonus growths in two areas.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't give her Paragon! Her Canto is locked and takes up 10 points.

English trailer is out!

https://youtu.be/IC3v_Vzp5_s

Kenri posted...

I actually think both of those are better than at least Alear (and it's not because Alear is toned down by comparison), but really my point was more that her style needs to be toned down way way more to be a good fit for FE. Like down to 0 and then maybe they can go up a little, as a treat.

Yes that was my point. She's best when she's let go crazy as she wants, and toning it down at all for her just doesn't fit, which is why most of the characters look sort of blah.

Basically I don't think she was a good fit as character designer the way Nintendo wanted it according to my theory that they hired her and then were "but don't go full Mika". They should have just got someone else.

My dream FE artist is Kenichi Yoshida.

Something I've been thinking of since I first saw Lilith with that gem on her forehead.

Just realized the one girl who is a Pegasus Knight in the marketing is a Griffin Rider in the trailer.

Very excited to see that class come back, because it's way cooler than a Wyvern or a Pegasus, but it was a pretty butt class in Awakening so nobody used it, IIRC.

There are also Axe Pegasus Knights, it seems.

tcaz2 posted...

Yes that was my point. She's best when she's let go crazy as she wants, and toning it down at all for her just doesn't fit, which is why most of the characters look sort of blah.

Basically I don't think she was a good fit as character designer the way Nintendo wanted it according to my theory that they hired her and then were "but don't go full Mika". They should have just got someone else.

I think we're misunderstanding each other somehow. I'm saying that e.g. Hakos actually looks toned down compared to Alear, and Alear still looks worse. So it's hard for me to believe that it's a matter of her being asked to tone it down -- I think she's just not a good style fit, as you say.

But it's pretty clear with the last 3 or so non-remake games that Nintendo is trying to take FE from a fairly grounded, if colorful, medieval fantasy setting to a standard JRPG magitech high fashion setting like Tales or whatever, so I'm gonna buckle up and not expect it to get better anytime soon.

I wonder if part of it, at least innitially, is just them hard pivoting from FE11 and 12 as much as possible.

I like those games but they are butt ugly. I actually dropped Shadow Dragon a few chapters in back when I bought it on release because it was so unnapealing to look at.

And with how successful the games have been since then after the DS games tanked comparatively, they really don't see a reason to go back.

I've been intentionally avoiding a lot about Engage but Byleth Emblem making anyone a Heron is just...

I also have a dream of an Armor Knight using Sigurd.

I'm not sure how you can look at either of these and say Alear is more extra when Alear is a pretty standard design aside from the two toned hair and weird knee suspenders on the male version...

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/virtualyoutuber/images/4/47/Hakos_Baelz_-_Fullbody.png/revision/latest?cb=20211030031856
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/virtualyoutuber/images/7/74/Hakos_Baelz_New_Year_Costume_by_Mika_Pikazo.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220116035240

Even not considering her New Years outfit, her base design has ears, mouse trap, mouse on head, flame eyes, spiked collar, two stuffed animals, asymmetrical hair and leggings, FOUR primary colors and two accent colors... It's a lot.

And that's not even getting to some of Sei from FGO's designs like this one, like what the hell lmao

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fategrandorder/images/8/87/S276_Stage2.webp/revision/latest?cb=20220924010015

But whatever I guess!

Anyway regarding gameplay, I actually kind of like the idea of a customizable "Oh shi-" button, which is what it seems like they're going for with Emblems. It really depends on how often you can use them and how long they last vs how long chapters are/how many enemies there are. I hope they manage to get that balance right.

tcaz2 posted...

Anyway regarding gameplay, I actually kind of like the idea of a customizable "Oh shi-" button, which is what it seems like they're going for with Emblems. It really depends on how often you can use them and how long they last vs how long chapters are/how many enemies there are. I hope they manage to get that balance right

I know for at least one of them you can only do it while under half health.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

English trailer is out!

https://youtu.be/IC3v_Vzp5_s

I wonder what Leif's title is going to be? The rest are pretty easy to guess from what we've seen, but I doubt Leif is going to be Emblem of Thracia.

Emblem of Light (Brand)

Ike, Emblem of Tellius and father of Sothe's children.

Oh right

WTF is the Sothe's children thing?

Was that just a raw mistranslation or something??

tcaz2 posted...

I'm not sure how you can look at either of these and say Alear is more extra when Alear is a pretty standard design aside from the two toned hair and weird knee suspenders on the male version...

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/virtualyoutuber/images/4/47/Hakos_Baelz_-_Fullbody.png/revision/latest?cb=20211030031856
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/virtualyoutuber/images/7/74/Hakos_Baelz_New_Year_Costume_by_Mika_Pikazo.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20220116035240

Even not considering her New Years outfit, her base design has ears, mouse trap, mouse on head, flame eyes, spiked collar, two stuffed animals, asymmetrical hair and leggings, FOUR primary colors and two accent colors... It's a lot.

And that's not even getting to some of Sei from FGO's designs like this one, like what the hell lmao

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fategrandorder/images/8/87/S276_Stage2.webp/revision/latest?cb=20220924010015

But whatever I guess!

Okay so

To be fair the pictures I saw of these characters were from the waist up

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh right

WTF is the Sothe's children thing?

Was that just a raw mistranslation or something??

She's calling him a dick rider

Oh was she actually just talking shit??

I didn't know she had it in her!

Just finished chapter 8. Swamps always suck! Wasn't too bad though.

And like...OK I'm not one of those people who go around being like "holy shit this chick is so hot, maximum waifu" unironically. That's kinda cringe most of the time.

But christ these sure are some character designs.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/6/4/AAeolZAAD6jY.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/6/5/AAeolZAAD6jZ.jpg

Tellius character designers really said "we're gonna give the bisexuals everything they want"

Level 20 Micaiah stats. Speed almost capped.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/8/3/AAeolZAAD6jr.jpg

I swear I did not save scum this at all, literally the only Bexp she ever got is the 32 exp I just gave her since she had 2 stays at cap and I knew it was my best chance to get another point of speed, lol.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/8/8/AAeolZAAD6jw.jpg

https://youtu.be/h06cSTAqAYk

With those stats, there's a chance she might actually be able to help in this chapter.

She didn't just help, she was murdering and dodging every enemy left and right. She got more kills than the Black Knight!

Of course I went out of my way for that to get her weapon EXP, but still, could have solo'd it lol.

That's two chapters in a row though where I couldn't use the units I wanted to raise....

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/9/4/AAeolZAAD6j2.jpg

Imagine you paid $60 and didn't know the structure.

The fun thing with Micaiah is that on hard mode you can have her get amazing level ups and cap everything and it still doesn't actually achieve jack shit in the long run because she still dies if anything touches her

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/0/1/AAeolZAAD6j9.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/0/2/AAeolZAAD6j-.jpg

This just ain't right.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/6/6/AAeolZAAD6k-.jpg

Lol Meg

Ah yes, the "stab a priest statue" level.

Turning that priest into a statue is probably the only thing Glare is good for in the entire game.