Poll of the Day > Do you miss when movies was just fun, and not so serious irl talking points?

(+) Yeah! (+)

As in, there is a movie and wow it looks cool! Instead of having to argue whether it was woke or not.

No because many new films are not woke or anything like that. The only time these "arguments" happen is on the internet so idgaf.

I watched the new Hellraiser and didn't see any serious talking points, just a solid horror movie.

Ironically, YouTube just recommended this video to me about 30 seconds before I saw this topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ngB-zjVmM

I miss when movies weren't just sequels, remakes, and superhero movies.

faramir77 posted...

I miss when movies weren't just sequels, remakes, and superhero movies.

Will agree on Superhero part. I mean i know people probably are hyped about ponies for girls MLP or superheroes for boys. But i kinda wish it was more in the background and not mainstream

I don't care about arguing about movies. I just go and enjoy them. I like 'bad' movies and 'good' movies. They're all fun.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Ironically, YouTube just recommended this video to me about 30 seconds before I saw this topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ngB-zjVmM

someone put this poor scotsman out of his misery

I do miss when movies were really good, and an escape from real life. I do not like most modern movies. Many look similar and are not interesting.
faramir77 posted...

I miss when movies weren't just sequels, remakes, and superhero movies.

Cycovision91 posted...

Will agree on Superhero part. I mean i know people probably are hyped about ponies for girls MLP or superheroes for boys. But i kinda wish it was more in the background and not mainstream

I agree. Movies now are often just sequels, remakes, superhero content, or nonsense. I myself am not interested in superheros.

Cycovision91 posted...

As in, there is a movie and wow it looks cool! Instead of having to argue whether it was woke or not.

Nobody has to argue about whether any movie was "woke" or not. There's just a sizable population of very fragile people who insist on throwing a temper tantrum whenever the remotest possibility of "wokeness" appears. The choice not to argue always exists, people are just dumb. That's also true of pretty much any media at pretty much any point in history, so I'm not sure why you're suggesting that it's a modern problem.

There are plenty of movies still just for "fun" what is even the point of this topic.

adjl posted...

Nobody has to argue about whether any movie was "woke" or not. There's just a sizable population of very fragile people who insist on throwing a temper tantrum whenever the remotest possibility of "wokeness" appears.

b-b-but if the movie doesnt appeal to me and it details experiences of marginalized communities that I hold no sympathy or care towards, how will people know Im virtue signaling if I dont complain online?

I miss when you could have serious movies without real world politics thrown in, like Se7en, Fight Club, LotR, TDK, most classic horror movies, etc. You can have a serious movie without making some sort of political appeal

You can have both, but that doesnt mean people will stop arguing about subtext.

Muscles posted...

I miss when you could have serious movies without real world politics thrown in, like Se7en, Fight Club, LotR, TDK, most classic horror movies, etc. You can have a serious movie without making some sort of political appeal

Is this ironic?

Muscles posted...

I miss when you could have serious movies without real world politics thrown in, like Se7en, Fight Club, LotR, TDK, most classic horror movies, etc. You can have a serious movie without making some sort of political appeal

Classic muscles.

Muscles posted...

I miss when you could have serious movies without real world politics thrown in, like Se7en, Fight Club, LotR, TDK, most classic horror movies, etc. You can have a serious movie without making some sort of political appeal

I

fight club and the dark knight were absolutely political lol

mordor in LotR is supposed to represent capitalism and industry

DirtBasedSoap posted...

I

fight club and the dark knight were absolutely political lol

mordor in LotR is supposed to represent capitalism and industry

Chuck Palahniuk is an apolitical entity, have you even read his books, it's like come on.

There have always been politics and messages, but they weren't so polarized. There was room for more messaging between the camps, and blockbustery movies had a lot more room to be fun without pissing off half of the population.

Theseadays you basically need some inane Marvel/Disney stuff if you want to do pure fun: anything more than that is risky. The new Top Gun did an amazing job pleasing both sides but you could feel their extreme caution: we can't become too warmongering, but we can't appear too "woke" either.

Soo....I dunno. Several genres aren't much affected (horror, some types of comedies, etc) but I think it's fair to say that the number of topics that filmmakers are willing to take on in what they would like to be a general-interest movie has declined dramatically.

Metalsonic66 posted...

Is this ironic?

I think so. It's too ignorant not to be

John Wick?

sodium-chloride posted...

John Wick?

Yeah, straight-up-the-middle kill bad guys movies still work: they can't deviate far from "get the bad guys".

DirtBasedSoap posted...

I

fight club and the dark knight were absolutely political lol

mordor in LotR is supposed to represent capitalism and industry

Those are generally bigger themes and don't go right to "look how evil Republicans/democrats are"

Metalsonic66 posted...

Is this ironic?

I genuinely don't know. On one hand, it's so staggeringly ignorant that I'm inclined to believe it must be. On the other, it's Muscles, and poorly-thought-out takes like that are kind of his thing, plus it's not actually uncommon to see people say things like "video games shouldn't be political" while in the same breath talking about how much they love Bioshock or MGS.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

mordor in LotR is supposed to represent capitalism and industry

It's really not. And Tolkien himself was the first one to point out how much he loathed allegory in general.

At most, you could argue that the overtones of the story were inspired by the fact that he was sad that industrialization kind of ruined the pastoral England of his childhood, and that his experiences in the trenches of WWI colored his perception of what "evil" was (as did his own strong Catholic beliefs), but at heart LotR was meant to be modern day mythology, not a thinly-veiled political or ideological statement hidden behind metaphor.

There's a huge difference between telling a story that is colored by your own views, and telling a story solely to ideologically perpetuate your views.

adjl posted...

I genuinely don't know. On one hand, it's so staggeringly ignorant that I'm inclined to believe it must be. On the other, it's Muscles, and poorly-thought-out takes like that are kind of his thing, plus it's not actually uncommon to see people say things like "video games shouldn't be political" while in the same breath talking about how much they love Bioshock or MGS.

Those movies are more about culture, you don't have some allegory trump out there doing comic book villain shit, those are more about culture and human nature than politics, and sure those intertwine but that's not the same thing as we are talking about. Fight Club isn't about politics, it's about the cultural demasculinization of men, Lord of the Rings isn't about stopping the evil industrialists, its about the nature of humans and corruption from power, Se7en is just a thriller about the nature of sin, Dark Knight is also about human nature and the corruption of man, none of these movies are going out of their way to make specific parallels to real life modern politics.

adjl posted...

Nobody has to argue about whether any movie was "woke" or not. There's just a sizable population of very fragile people who insist on throwing a temper tantrum whenever the remotest possibility of "wokeness" appears.

The real problem is that there are two sizable populations of very fragile people on both sides of any given issue these days, and they can't help screeching at each other and constantly flinging shit at "THE ENEMY", because it's the only way they feel capable of validating themselves as human beings.

When you lack self-worth, the only way to feel special or important is to attach your sense of self-identity to things outside of yourself. And then to emotionally defend those things beyond any sane or rational point solely because anything that "threatens" those things is a direct attack on your sense of self.

Internet discourse is almost entirely made up of insecure children in the bodies of adults screaming into the void in the hopes that someone will eventually come along and validate them.

DirtBasedSoap posted...

I

fight club and the dark knight were absolutely political lol

mordor in LotR is supposed to represent capitalism and industry

How can that be when J.R.R Tolkien hated both Nazism and Communism though? Isnt Communism by itself anti capitalism? Or do you think he simply hated authoritarianism by also being against capitalism? He also didnt like hippies.

Think only slightly controversial political take he had was supporting Franco of Spain. The fascist party of Spain. Think it was mainly due to the killing of Catholic priests or something, while the Republicans of Spain was communist

Cycovision91 posted...

mordor in LotR is supposed to represent capitalism and industry

I tend to ignore that and focus my attention on Gimli, Aragorn and Legolas bustin' up orcs

Dmess85 posted...

I tend to ignore that and focus my attention on Gimli, Aragorn and Legolas bustin' up orcs

Why you quoting like i said that lol. It was DirtBasedSoap user who said it. But now we are getting off the rails

it was dirtbasedsoap user

Muscles posted...

Fight Club isn't about politics, it's about the cultural demasculinization of men

That is political you dingus

Cycovision91 posted...

Why you quoting like i said that lol. It was DirtBasedSoap user who said it. But now we are getting off the rails

Whoops, just selected the text off the quote lol

DirtBasedSoap posted...

it was dirtbasedsoap user

dirtbased who?

Muscles posted...

Fight Club isn't about politics, it's about the cultural demasculinization of men

So, politics.

Muscles posted...

Lord of the Rings isn't about stopping the evil industrialists, its about the nature of humans and corruption from power,

So, politics.

Muscles posted...

Se7en is just a thriller about the nature of sin,

So, politics.

Muscles posted...

Dark Knight is also about human nature and the corruption of man

So, politics.

"Being political" doesn't have to mean making a formal allegory to the actions of contemporary political parties. It simply entails making some sort of commentary or expressing some sort of opinion on society or culture. Almost all art does that, especially art that people actually find interesting enough to pay attention to because something about it resonates with their thoughts, feelings, or experiences. It's only the most mindless of content that doesn't do that, though even that carries with it the statement of "here, have some mindless escapism" if you view it at a meta level.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

but at heart LotR was meant to be modern day mythology, not a thinly-veiled political or ideological statement hidden behind metaphor.

Mythology is thinly-veiled political or ideological statement hidden behind metaphor. Everything about every mythology humanity has ever conceived boils down to trying to explain the way the world works in a way that makes enough sense to convince others to agree with it (whether for power or just for the validation of having enough people agree to feel like you've got the right answer). Even in creating fictional universes, authors express some sort of view about how they feel their fictional world might work, which is a political statement that takes the form of "this is what I think would happen if the world tried to work like this."

There is a spectrum, certainly. As you said, there's an obvious difference between overt political commentary and material that just touches on vaguer political themes. It's nonetheless very rare to find a truly apolitical work of art. This notion of "everything's so political these days" has very little basis in reality.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

The real problem is that there are two sizable populations of very fragile people on both sides of any given issue these days, and they can't help screeching at each other and constantly flinging s*** at "THE ENEMY", because it's the only way they feel capable of validating themselves as human beings.

People are fond of saying this, but by and large, it's one side trying to make meaningful improvements to media portrayals that stand to yield actual societal benefits, and the other side freaking out over any deviation from the status quo. The former is not fragility, it's just recognizing problems that the latter would prefer to pretend don't exist.

adjl posted...

People are fond of saying this, but by and large, it's one side trying to make meaningful improvements to media portrayals that stand to yield actual societal benefits, and the other side freaking out over any deviation from the status quo.

That is certainly what one side enjoys telling itself to justify its own shitty behavior, yes.

But that in itself is part of the problem.



adjl posted...

Mythology is thinly-veiled political or ideological statement hidden behind metaphor. Everything about every mythology humanity has ever conceived boils down to trying to explain the way the world works in a way that makes enough sense to convince others to agree with it.

I'd agree to a point - but I'd also point out that it's often a question of unconscious beliefs and assumptions coloring a shared story that evolves over time across many tellers rather than a deliberate attempt to create a specific narrative by a single individual or small group of individuals.

And none of which necessarily matters when an artist is deliberately attempting to mimic the form of the medium without writing in the same context. Tolkien wasn't trying to explain how the world works in an attempt to get others to agree. He was trying to tell a story that "felt" like mythology and which could inspire the same sense of joy and wonder he felt when reading the various mythology of other cultures.

Tolkien wasn't creating "mythology" for the same reason people create real mythology. His intentions were entirely different, and they're reflected in the nature of the work.

Tolkien himself repeatedly said that anyone who tries to figure out what LotR really means is pretty much automatically wrong, and they've completely missed the entire point.



adjl posted...

It's nonetheless very rare to find a truly apolitical work of art. This notion of "everything's so political these days" has very little basis in reality.

The problem is how you define "apolitical art", and how you choose to interpret what you're looking at and the intentions behind its creation. It's entirely possible to read meaning into works even where such meaning was never intended to exist, and it has grown vastly more common in the modern era, where we've developed a highly metatextual and allegorical view of the world. It's the driving force behind concepts like Death of the Author - it doesn't matter what the person who created a work says it's about, because we've decided it's metaphorically about something else and we're egotistical enough to assume that the only thing that matters is our perception of the world.

We assume that because we see patterns, those patterns automatically exist, were intended, and are the most important implications of a work - even if our perceptions are nothing more than apophenia.

Modern culture is quite possibly one of the most narcissistic and egocentric paradigms humans have ever created. And we define literally everything through the lens of that perception, even when it's blatantly and completely wrong to do so.

Which gives us a very flawed understanding of the world we actually live in. And a view that is only growing more and more flawed as every individual separates themselves out into microcosm echo chambers that narrowcast their own viewpoint back at them and radicalize their views.

This is why pointing at one group and saying "THEY are the problem" is often missing the point. EVERYONE is the problem. And until people understand that, the problem will never be solved. Scapegoating and tribalism (regardless of which side you're on) makes things worse, not better.

NEEEEEEERDSSSS

o

DirtBasedSoap posted...

NEEEEEEERDSSSS

o

I am a nerd. Just look at this picture. I bet nobody has seen this cartoon before.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/4/6/AAfT9MAAD2X6.jpg
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/4/7/AAfT9MAAD2X7.jpg

ParanoidObsessive posted...

That is certainly what one side enjoys telling itself to justify its own s***ty behavior, yes.

Usually paired with a solid variety of objective bases for that opinion, which is not something the other side can claim.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

And none of which necessarily matters when an artist is deliberately attempting to mimic the form of the medium without writing in the same context. Tolkien wasn't trying to explain how the world works in an attempt to get others to agree. He was trying to tell a story that "felt" like mythology and which could inspire the same sense of joy and wonder he felt when reading the various mythology of other cultures.

Tolkien wasn't creating "mythology" for the same reason people create real mythology. His intentions were entirely different, and they're reflected in the nature of the work.

Yes and no. To create a believable, cohesive world (which Tolkein arguably did a better job of than any other author in history) in which to set a mythology like that, you have to consider how that world works and how the interactions between its people shape the world and its societies. Whatever your goals, doing that believably is going to have to draw on real-world experiences and knowledge and the well-conceived opinions you have on how the world works (and would work if things were different). That's inherently political thinking: thinking about how the world could be different.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

The problem is how you define "apolitical art", and how you choose to interpret what you're looking at and the intentions behind its creation.

That's where we get into the distinction between art that tries to make a deliberate political statement and art that happens to provide some sort of political commentary because of the author's underlying views. Whether it's clearly intended to express them or not, art often reflects the artist's beliefs and opinions. To keep going with Tolkein, it's no secret that his descriptions of Mordor were inspired by his time on the battlefields of WWI. Subsequent to that, we can interpret that he held the tremendously controversial political belief that WWI was bad. That wasn't necessarily something he's deliberately trying to convince anyone of, but it's nonetheless an opinion and a message that his work carries.

I think the central disconnect here is that you don't feel something can be considered "political" unless it's a persuasive piece. That's not entirely a wrong approach to take, but in a discussion where people complain about GTA being too "woke" or "political" for having a girl as one of the main characters, I think it misses what's actually being said, which is that the people saying those things are complaining about their media doing anything to suggest that the status quo isn't perfect. That's going to be true of literally any media that depicts an alternative or bases its conflict on a contemporary social issue (the latter of which feeds into the "media never used to be so political" belief because the issues that were contemporary to the work are no longer current), so the claim that it's "too political" is nonsense and should be called out for what it is: disagreeing with the statement being made.

Tom Clancy was a die-hard republican and his works are supposed to represent a conservative viewpoint.
Hell, in the first Rainbow Six game you're up against a "Far left terrorist environmentalist organization" Lmao

DirtBasedSoap posted...

I

fight club and the dark knight were absolutely political lol

mordor in LotR is supposed to represent capitalism and industry

Did Tolkien say that himself?

Revelation34 posted...

Did Tolkien say that himself?

He didn't, but he also didn't exactly paint the guy who burned down the forests to seize power over as many people as he could in a positive light. Though that was more Saruman. Mordor was inspired by WWI, not any particular commentary on unbridled industrial greed.

adjl posted...

Nobody has to argue about whether any movie was "woke" or not. There's just a sizable population of very fragile people who insist on throwing a temper tantrum whenever the remotest possibility of "wokeness" appears. The choice not to argue always exists, people are just dumb. That's also true of pretty much any media at pretty much any point in history, so I'm not sure why you're suggesting that it's a modern problem.

adjl stomping through the landmines!

Cycovision91 posted...

How can that be when J.R.R Tolkien hated both Nazism and Communism though? Isnt Communism by itself anti capitalism? Or do you think he simply hated authoritarianism by also being against capitalism? He also didnt like hippies.

Think only slightly controversial political take he had was supporting Franco of Spain. The fascist party of Spain. Think it was mainly due to the killing of Catholic priests or something, while the Republicans of Spain was communist

extreme oversimplification of the Spanish Civil War and you'd be a lot better off disposing of the word 'slightly'. definitely recommend 'Homage to Catalonia' by Orwell!

Here's a video relating to Tolkein's views. I've skipped past the first bit that's more about RoP 'controversy' stuff. It's all good if you don't agree with an assessment by the youtube video creator, just some info to take in.
https://youtu.be/6K7xDrF0Ul0?t=991

Lol, when was that?

1927? Metropolis?
1915-1916? Birth of a Nation and its sequel?
1912? With Our King and Queen Through India
1908? The Assassination of the Duke of Guise
1901? Histoire d'un crime
1894-1896? Dorlita in the Passion Dance, The Execution of Mary Stuart, Le Coucher de la Marie

??? Edit: Yeah, uh... how old are you exactly? Because I can't miss a time I never lived in.

Ferarri619 posted...

Tom Clancy was a die-hard republican and his works are supposed to represent a conservative viewpoint.
Hell, in the first Rainbow Six game you're up against a "Far left terrorist environmentalist organization" Lmao

Really? Wasnt you fighting terrorist group who was against joining EU.. which you know is slightly funny because Britain voted out of EU yet in this game its a terrorist group. But basically its based on extreme xenophobic view points of a movement in Rainbow Six 1 on PS1.

Though one can discuss several reasons to be against EU for other reason than immigration, but interms of the first game this was sorta the group you fought

Yup, but thats what happens when people base their personality around politics and let their brains turn to mush.

It only really bothers me when the IRL talking points ignore the fictional reality of the fantasy story they're in and feel awkward as a result. You can make meaningful points about real life stuff in a fantasy setting, but it needs to be done skillfully.

Muscles posted...

I miss when you could have serious movies without real world politics thrown in, like Se7en, Fight Club, LotR, TDK, most classic horror movies, etc. You can have a serious movie without making some sort of political appeal

I thought this was some solid sarcasm, but the rest of your posts sound like you arent kidding. Never change, muscle man

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/6/1/AAGJd8AAD2eZ.jpg

they recently had a gundam being really gay and people are absolutely freaking out wishing we could return to the good old days when gundam wasn't woke

like, unironically