Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 396: America's Mid(terms)

(+) Yeah! (+)

masterplum posted...

You realize ceo pay is the same problem when companies make no money and are going out of business right? Golden parachutes and all that?

Yup. And YOU realize that corporations are legally obligated to benefit their investors above all else, right? So when theyre making record profits, that money is used on stock buybacks to boost the stock value, and the executives of the company are often compensated not by high salaries (well, comparably high salaries), but by stock options, which means those buybacks boost their net worth.

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1588384805045301248?t=M2xBLaTmBtB2T5uDsrqyhg&s=19

Everyone get ready for the disinformation deluge, just in time for midterms! It's not like one party in particular has hinged their electoral success of the past 12 years on spreading disinformation, right?

masterplum posted...

Corporations aren't people. If corporations make record profits the money ends up somewhere, and a lot of it went to minimum wage hikes when all the companies started hiking up minimums to 15 an hour at the beginning of the year.

SCOTUS and Mitt Romney say that corporations are, in fact, people. I think this has been conclusively settled as a matter of law.

The interests of shareholders and employees sometimes aren't aligned. Every dollar going to employees reduces corporate profit, which reduces shareholder profits.

Espeon posted...

Yup. And YOU realize that corporations are legally obligated to benefit their investors above all else, right?

No?

Look at companies like Costco or southwest airlines

And also shareholders....

Are also people.

Taxing shareholders is also a good economist approved strategy!

masterplum posted...

No?

Look at companies like Costco or southwest airlines

That's called a business strategy of getting happy and loyal customers. It benefits shareholders in the long run. Companies can think long term, they don't have to kill the golden goose immediately but they are legally required to prioritize shareholders.

HeroicCrono posted...

That's called a business strategy of getting happy and loyal customers. It benefits shareholders in the long run. Companies can think long term, they don't have to kill the golden goose immediately but they are legally required to prioritize shareholders.

Then what the hell are we arguing about if having reduced profits in order to please shareholders is also good.

It can't be both corporate profits are bad and we have to stop them because shareholders force them to
and
sometimes companies don't have corporate profits and that is also bad because shareholders force them too

I'm not arguing, it's just an observation. I think our system of capitalism and liberal democracy depends on the working class having the ability to act as capitalists. If people come to think of themselves as workers who will never be able to enjoy the fruit of corporate profits, they will support socialism, but if they think of themselves as capitalists too (through their investments, including stocks, real estate, 401ks, etc.) then they may avoid socialism.

Also Plum don't worry with Republicans in charge of at least one house of Congress we won't be getting tax increases on corporations.

masterplum posted...

This argument drives me up a wall every time.

Why, cause it's right and it blows up in the face to the enlightened centrists "economic anxiety" concerns?

"Corporate profits are directly linked to inflation"

OK then why isn't it at a 40 year high as well? Why does go back an additional 30? Why is there a candy company increasing its profitability by 55% when inflation is 8%?

Get the fuck outta here with this "Russian disinformation" bullshit.

Remember when Nate Silver was credible? Lmao

https://twitter.com/ianjjamison/status/1588565624523231233

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1588538640401018880?s=46&t=JRQKP-LOpZoHgYFB43zYnw

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1588538640401018880?s=46&t=JRQKP-LOpZoHgYFB43zYnw

lol

furthermore lmao

MyPillow and Veggie Capsule CEOs wringing their hands.

"The thing I bought has lost a ton of revenue even though nothing has changed" would trigger a moment of self-reflection, for some people.

He's in a complete freefall. Imagine if he had just chilled the fuck out and sat in the background, like every other billionaire knows how to do, and took his time working with the team on actual product development.

If his world view didn't depend on him being the main character, and he could take criticism without going into an insane frenzy, he wouldn't be the second biggest fuck up of 2022

https://twitter.com/tobymorton/status/1588551962881978368?t=UoyHgK9KEAkaWKLIOedsLg&s=19

Dude isn't even original.

He made his fortune by putting his name on other people's work, so it's pretty on brand

Check bottom corners of the Trump tweet, it's a parody

It IS the same general rhetoric but that's just part-and-parcel of being a right-winger on social media

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Remember when Nate Silver was credible? Lmao

https://twitter.com/ianjjamison/status/1588565624523231233

So if the Republicans win next week as he is now predicting, will you retract this?

red_sox_777 posted...

So if the Republicans win next week as he is now predicting, will you retract this?

No because thats whats going to happen.

Hes not credible because he literally calling the idea that the media is pushing false narratives conspiracy, and then he immediately says yeah that [fake] stuff is having an effect!

Kenri posted...

Check bottom corners of the Trump tweet, it's a parody

It IS the same general rhetoric but that's just part-and-parcel of being a right-winger on social media

So Elon isn't even good enough to rip off the real deal?

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

No because thats whats going to happen.

Hes not credible because he literally calling the idea that the media is pushing false narratives conspiracy, and then he immediately says yeah that [fake] stuff is having an effect!

It sounds like he contradicted himself (on a fairly unimportant point) within 2 sentences, and that this is a case where having more context would help us understand the meaning.

Perhaps there are two different media narratives here: (1) that Republicans are gaining - this one is accurate because they really are gaining and (2) Dems are soft on crime/inflation/etc - this one is hyperbolic and smacks of fearmongering but it is having real effects on the election whether or not the claims are accurate.

Those arent different media narratives at all, the myth of #2 is directly contributing to #1.

If #2 is causing #1, then they are probably different things. His statement appears to be that the reporter's theory, that #1 is fake, is not accurate - because Republicans really are gaining. The reason for that gain is a separate issue.

https://twitter.com/mestizoleftist/status/1588327819381157888?s=46&t=FfSmXtby0rSUaRIEP0lxcA

lmao

jfc if I tried to craft a fake tweet making fun of Twitter liberals, I don't know if I could do a better job than that. Maybe I'd change the show to Hamilton or something Disney related, but that's almost straight up parody

Hamilton's moral is partly that violence is bad and destructive so that one's out. Harry Potter would be a good choice tho

Kenri posted...

Harry Potter would be a good choice tho

Didn't internet liberals start hating HP years ago, though?

Xeybozn posted...

Didn't internet liberals start hating HP years ago, though?

lmao as if liberals give the slightest of shits about trans people

Good point, I forgot that liberals and leftists aren't the same thing in this discussion. From that point of view, HP would be one of the best ways to mock Twitter liberals.

(Wasn't really thinking about Rowling's awful views on trans issues at all, though. There's a ton of questionable political ideas in the books even ignoring the author.)

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1588604338330800128?s=46&t=B76Zc6TXS5dgGOBcdspy4w

Xeybozn posted...

There's a ton of questionable political ideas in the books even ignoring the author

a lot of those are like quintessentially liberal ideas about no bad actions only bad actors, defeating the evil without changing the status quo (and keeping that Evil Kids branch of the school lmao), and there's such a thing as too much activism when slaves actually just like to be slaves and that one who didn't was just a very special case

and harry growing up to be a cop lol

also a smattering of racism (which went way over my head as a kid somehow!)

Grimlyn posted...

a lot of those are like quintessentially liberal ideas about no bad actions only bad actors

Is that a liberal idea? I associate liberals with the opposite - moral absolutism, rising above the enemy, the end does not justify the means - those sort of things.

People are retroactively trying to fund issues with Harry Potter because of Rowling. It's pretty funny. Nobody had any serious concerns about the books before she was a Terf

you don't really have to try to find them, you just have to pay a bit more attention than you did when you were 10

That is absolutely not true, the conversation has just been amplified by a lot. But concerns about the house elf slavery thing, Cho Chang, and the anti-Semitic goblins go back over a decade.

I think people largely approach art and entertainment while giving creators the benefit of the doubt. We now know too much about Rowling to do so, which is why criticisms are opening up.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

That is absolutely not true, the conversation has just been amplified by a lot. But concerns about the house elf slavery thing, Cho Chang, and the anti-Semitic goblins go back over a decade.

Plum spouting bullshit to defend bad people? I'm shocked.

https://twitter.com/mestizoleftist/status/1588327819381157888

masterplum posted...

This argument drives me up a wall every time.

Highest corporate profits are directly related to inflation. They aren't the highest inflation adjusted corporate profits

Profit margins are at a 70-year high or so.

Is that not controlling for inflation since it's a % rather than just the raw number of dollars? I feel like the evidence is pretty compelling that a fair deal of the higher prices atm is corporate greed using inflation as a cover story and excuse to raise/keep prices high. Not to say there aren't underlying issues that would legitimately pressure prices upwards but there's a lot of smoke.

Which, incidentally, is why people care. If they're price gouging people that's typically going to affect the poorest the worst and they're doing so with naked greed.

Is there a chart of corporate profits over time adjusted for inflation?

My gut instinct tells me it's trended up and up since ww2

banananor posted...

Is there a chart of corporate profits over time adjusted for inflation?

My gut instinct tells me it's trended up and up since ww2

There's a bunch. Corporate profits growth have significantly outpaced employee wage growth.

Thorn posted...

Is that not controlling for inflation since it's a % rather than just the raw number of dollars? I feel like the evidence is pretty compelling that a fair deal of the higher prices atm is corporate greed using inflation as a cover story and excuse to raise/keep prices high. Not to say there aren't underlying issues that would legitimately pressure prices upwards but there's a lot of smoke.

This explanation doesn't make any sense to me. Corporations are always acting in a greedy way (i.e. trying to maximize their profits); it wasn't like they were benevolent a few years ago and then all the sudden decided to be greedy now. The inflationary environment was what changed.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/mestizoleftist/status/1588327819381157888

Why did you repost something you responded to already? Am I missing something?

If this is a duress signal, post something pro-Elon.

LordoftheMorons posted...

This explanation doesn't make any sense to me. Corporations are always acting in a greedy way (i.e. trying to maximize their profits); it wasn't like they were benevolent a few years ago and then all the sudden decided to be greedy now. The inflationary environment was what changed.

I'm saying the narrative of inflation gave them a scapegoat to pin it on and act like they were forced to by the economy and not making a conscious decision to just raise prices. idk maybe I phrased it poorly

https://www.epi.org/blog/corporate-profits-have-contributed-disproportionately-to-inflation-how-should-policymakers-respond

Some economists seem to be starting to argue that corporate profits are driving inflation, the above was April and then the other day...:

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/3715725-rising-profits-are-driving-inflation-ubs-economist-says/

kevwaffles posted...

Why did you repost something you responded to already? Am I missing something?

If this is a duress signal, post something pro-Elon.

lol oops, that was the wrong tweet.

The one I meant to share I cant find anymore, but it was about how the auto-fact check on Elons tweet about activist groups messing up his revenue has disappeared.