Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 396: America's Mid(terms)

(+) Yeah! (+)

This November we will beat the dead horse that is the American Experment

Another Walker paid abortion claim coming forward at a presser later today.

I don't think anyone who wasn't swayed by one is gonna be swayed by a second, but still.

https://youtu.be/SBN8L0CiWbQ?t=6

Reading through the last topic definitely made me think of this.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/1/2/AAGQPmAAD0iM.jpg

how can Corrik vote for a man who calls this Mac and cheese

https://twitter.com/droz/status/1150484952993189889?s=21

MoogleKupo141 posted...

how can Corrik vote for a man who calls this Mac and cheese

https://twitter.com/droz/status/1150484952993189889?s=21

Whoa, I was supportive before but this crosses the line

Mac & Cheese is disgusting anyway

Counterpoint: Your face is disgusting

Correct point: mac and cheese is the GOAT, Dr. Oz is the TOAD (terrible on any day)

But if you like people who have scammed the American public for over a decade, are literally at least partially responsible for the deaths of over 300 dogs, and have no clue about the position they're running to take within the state they don't even fucking live in, Dr. Oz is your man!

I haven't been keeping up, but I l can't imagine Corrik voting for him

_Blur_ posted...

I haven't been keeping up, but I l can't imagine Corrik voting for him

why not

_Blur_ posted...

I haven't been keeping up, but I l can't imagine Corrik voting for him

He says Fetterman is just as bad so he is voting Republican.

I'm still hoping he will answer my question on what makes him hate Fetterman so much.

Or my question about what GOP policies actually benefit him as a working class American (enough to make him vote for a completely out-of-touch rich guy over an actual blue-collar Democrat that's trying to help the people of Pennsylvania).

Id love to hear the answer to those questions too, but Im guessing we get nothing because he doesnt actually know those answers and just wants to vote R

I reiterate my confusion that American swing voters exist.

Hm, do I vote for the big tent party? Nahh this time Ill vote for the fascists.

Inviso posted...

Or my question about what GOP policies actually benefit him as a working class American

doesn't corrik own a pool? i'm not sure he's working class.

I dont think working class is a great indicator of political alignment any more anyways. Lot of rural lower class are Republican and upper middle class millennials are democrats

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

doesn't corrik own a pool? i'm not sure he's working class.

If its an above ground pool, thats a fairly common thing for working class people

Jakyl25 posted...

If its an above ground pool, thats a fairly common thing for working class people

must be a US thing because even the richest people i know in real life don't own a pool (and i know plenty of people)!

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

must be a US thing because even the richest people i know in real life don't own a pool (and i know plenty of people)!

I mean a typical working class person away from the coasts in the US probably also owns more land than a typical moderately affluent person in the Netherlands. The typical home pool is not very big or valuable.

I don't know so much about "common" there but I don't have the stats or anything.

There may be a misunderstanding of what an above ground pool is here.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/3/0/AAeolZAAD0nK.jpg

Yeah, you can get an above ground pool for like 400 bucks

I've seen real cheap ones sitting retail around $150 before on sale.

To be honest, and this is total bullshit of course, I've seen some people consider a above ground pools to be a sign of borderline poverty when large families have them. "Hillbilly pool".

LightningStrikes posted...

I reiterate my confusion that American swing voters exist.

Hm, do I vote for the big tent party? Nahh this time Ill vote for the fascists.

I don't really know how it works in England, because your parties are to the left of ours in some ways, but to the right of ours in others. But the problem America has is that the majority of our population is fiscally conservative, and the majority of our population is socially liberal, but those majorities don't entirely overlap.

As such, you have one party (the GOP) who is openly fiscally conservative: fewer taxes, cut spending programs (except the military), privatize EVERYTHING. But, this party is also SOCIALLY conservative, and they strongly push policies designed to weaken any group that threats the social hierarchy and keep straight, white men at the top.

Meanwhile, the other party (Democrats) is socially liberal: abortion should be a right, gay marriage should be a right, we should push to fix climate change, there should be more respect towards non-straight white males, particularly in acknowledging that historically, out-groups have been treated like shit in America. But, this party is also portrayed as fiscally liberal (I say portrayed, because in reality, most Democrats are more fiscally conservative, but willing to accept fiscal liberalism if it's sold to them correctly), with an emphasis on higher taxes on the rich, business regulation, and an increase to entitlement programs that might help the whole of the country.

Because of this, you have a situation where a LARGE fucking chunk of Americans think fiscal conservatism will save the day, because ultimately, we're a nation of self-centered assholes who don't want to help anyone else out unless we personally feel like it, and therefore we don't want to pay taxes for things might not directly benefit us. Even though the Dems AREN'T as liberal as they're portrayed by right-wing media, they're still viewed negatively in terms of fiscal policy. Again, I'm not claiming the Dems ARE worse--and in fact they're probably better, as we saw with Liz Truss how going full steam ahead with fiscal conservatism actually fucks things up--just that it's the perception.

But at the same time, most Americans can look at social conservatism and be like "There's nothing wrong with gay marriage/trans rights/abortion/etc." or "well, it doesn't effect me, so I don't see why I should care to regulate what other people do in their private lives".

As such, if it were JUST fiscal policy, people would probably vote for conservatives each and every time. But going back to the Liz Truss comment...implementing conservative fiscal policy doesn't actually help the American people...if anything, it's disastrous to the economy long-term. So the GOP has decided to push HARD on the social conservatism in order to give their voters something tangible that will help them overlook just how little fiscal conservatism actually helps. While that's great for their base, it has led to the GOP drifting FAR far right, with open racism, open sexism, open homophobia, open transphobia, open islamophobia, open anti-semitism, and general open xenophobia becoming the norm for the faces of the party.

MOST people aren't horrible human beings, so they see what the GOP has become and at least question whether they can support that shit. But again, fiscal policy...so you have voters who are torn between supporting social conservatism that is rapidly driving violence towards historically disempowered groups, or supporting fiscal conservatism because their gas prices are too high, and they want to pay fewer taxes, and don't want to pay for "lazy millennials that got art degrees in college". That's where the swing voters come from.

Inviso posted...

But the problem America has is that the majority of our population is fiscally conservative, and the majority of our population is socially liberal

What? If anything, it's the other way around. Most of America is socially conservative, but leans left on economic issues (unless doing so might help "undeserving" people, then the social conservatism wins out).

I dont have time to give a full response (excellent post though Inviso, thank you) but the evidence does say that the US is a lot more economically right-leaning than other countries in its populace, though they are still more left-leaning than their politicians. Socially most tend to be more liberal but some issues like trans rights are strict party lines.

Jakyl25 posted...

If its an above ground pool, thats a fairly common thing for working class people

It's above ground and I probably wouldn't have it if it didn't come with the house lol

Gotta keep in mind too that the average American is extremely uninformed about politics. I don't even mean day-to-day politics but like. The average American doesn't know how a president is elected or how long a representative serves or how a bill becomes law or that there's a difference between state senators and US senators from a particular state. It's difficult to answer the question of "are Americans okay with fascism" because very few could even tell you what that is and even less would be correct about it if they did.

So swing voters exist because some people vote randomly, or on vibes, or based on this year's propaganda or whatever. I'm not convinced that fully informed swing voters exist in any appreciable number.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

There may be a misunderstanding of what an above ground pool is here.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/3/0/AAeolZAAD0nK.jpg

That's a fake above ground pool.

Anyways, you can submit to me one post of questions by 2pm EST that you want answered and I will answer them all. You can submit your questions to Jakyl who can then provide the master list of questions to me lol.

Until then, Tales of Arise.

Pet Peeve triggered: We are on EDT, not EST

Jakyl25 posted...

Pet Peeve triggered: We are on EDT, not EST

Congress should pass the bill making EST what is now EDT permanently.

Yes I dont know what the holdup is.

Get moving Nancy

For the record, I strongly oppose the bill to ban members of Congress from trading stocks. I support Nancy Pelosi's right to make as much money as she can.

Kenri posted...

Gotta keep in mind too that the average American is extremely uninformed about politics. I don't even mean day-to-day politics but like. The average American doesn't know how a president is elected or how long a representative serves or how a bill becomes law or that there's a difference between state senators and US senators from a particular state. It's difficult to answer the question of "are Americans okay with fascism" because very few could even tell you what that is and even less would be correct about it if they did.

So swing voters exist because some people vote randomly, or on vibes, or based on this year's propaganda or whatever. I'm not convinced that fully informed swing voters exist in any appreciable number.

This is the most important takeaway, and it applies to most countries in the world. Your average voters is shockingly ignorant.

red_sox_777 posted...

For the record, I strongly oppose the bill to ban members of Congress from trading stocks. I support Nancy Pelosi's right to make as much money as she can.

Do you think she has stake in whatever company programs clocks to automatically react to DST beginning/ending?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/7/4/AAeolZAAD0pa.jpg

holy shit lmao

one of those headlines i had to look up to make sure good god

It's honestly not even the worst comment he could make politically, because a potentially significant number of Republicans won't bother to vote if their only option is two black people, so the GOP is trying to find some way to get those people to the polls.

https://twitter.com/Vahn16/status/1585351633197993984

Inviso posted...

Or my question about what GOP policies actually benefit him as a working class American (enough to make him vote for a completely out-of-touch rich guy over an actual blue-collar Democrat that's trying to help the people of Pennsylvania).

Is there a single GOP policy in the last 25 years that benefits the working class? Please someone give me one. It's culture war propaganda they vote for, not actually policies benefitting non-billionaires

_Blur_ posted...

Is there a single GOP policy in the last 25 years that benefits the working class? Please someone give me one. It's culture war propaganda they vote for, not actually policies benefitting non-billionaires

It depends on if you think extreme liberal policies will kill the country.

The argument you could make is entitlements in some countries have grown to unbearable states. Countries such as Greece have almost gone bankrupt because of entitlement spending. Communist countries such as Cuba and the USSR have become hellholes when Authoritarian leftists stole from workers because of corruption.

So you could make an argument, though as with most things in politics it is highly debatable

Russia's definitely doing great these days, it's true.

/s just in case

masterplum posted...

It depends on if you think extreme liberal policies will kill the country.

The argument you could make is entitlements in some countries have grown to unbearable states. Countries such as Greece have almost gone bankrupt because of entitlement spending. Communist countries such as Cuba and the USSR have become hellholes when Authoritarian leftists stole from workers because of corruption.

So you could make an argument, though as with most things in politics it is highly debatable

Yeah, I really don't see the relevancy of those countries' policies to America. It's literally just complete horse shit propaganda from the GOP. The Republicans only try to frame the Democrats as authoritarian when it comes to social issues. They don't even make the argument they're authoritarian in voting because voter suppression is their thing, and the Dems have some policies that ever so slightly might benefit the working class in this country.

_Blur_ posted...

Yeah, I really don't see the relevancy of those countries' policies to America. It's literally just complete horse shit propaganda from the GOP. The Republicans only try to frame the Democrats as authoritarian when it comes to social issues. They don't even make the argument they're authoritarian in voting because voter suppression is their thing, and the Dems have some policies that ever so slightly might benefit the working class in this country.

There isn't much relevance, especially if we are talking mainstream democratic socialism, but that is the argument

So you agree that Republicans lie through their teeth in order to win elections, because their policy decisions in a vacuum would be unpopular.

_Blur_ posted...

Is there a single GOP policy in the last 25 years that benefits the working class? Please someone give me one. It's culture war propaganda they vote for, not actually policies benefitting non-billionaires

Tax cuts for the working class, tariffs, pandemic stimulus, PPP loans. Is there a single Democratic policy in the last 20 years that helped people making between $30k and $60k a year?

Well, things are certainly taking a turn for the worse.

I think the upside here is a full Republican congress is probably going to go completely crazy which should make 2024 a lot easier

masterplum posted...

Well, things are certainly taking a turn for the worse.

I think the upside here is a full Republican congress is probably going to go completely crazy which should make 2024 a lot easier

Biden will just veto everything if that happens. Also Mitch is not going to get rid of the filibuster.

red_sox_777 posted...

Tax cuts for the working class, tariffs, pandemic stimulus, PPP loans. Is there a single Democratic policy in the last 20 years that helped people making between $30k and $60k a year?

I mean, you just listed three, and tariffs don't actually help the working class, since they only impact the cost of goods stateside, not internationally, which raise the cost of what little manufacturing still occurs in America. It's also a shame that PPP loans were fudged by the GOP to give more money to the super rich, which they then got forgiven, free of charge.

We got the strongest labor market in 50 years after the tariffs and tax cuts went into place. I mean you can argue all you want that that wasn't the cause, just like conservatives still argue that FDR's New Deal worsened the Depression. You may even be right, but I think it's pretty unlikely. You'll notice no one on the left was predicting we would have the strongest labor market in 50 years within 3 years in the aftermath of the 2016 election. That strongly undercuts the claim that it was caused by other factors - since if they were, that outcome would have been predictable beforehand.