Current Events > Man kills publicly Swastika-wearing Nazi. You're on the jury.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Would refuse to convict him but would say he deserves the maximum for community service or 1 year at the lowest security prison camp in existance.

GATTJT posted...

If Nazis aren't humans then legally it's not murder.

Tell that to the judge *shrugs*

GATTJT posted...

If Nazis aren't humans then legally it's not murder.

So animal abuse? Still a criminal offense. You can't walk around just killing people because they are saying shit you don't like. Nazis don't deserve to exist, but you can't just straight up murder people in the streets.

Some psychopath saying "God" told him his murder victim was a Nazi, should never be vindicated.

First degree murder is probably not going to stick, as there is no evidence the killing was premeditated.

Second or third degree murder is more likely what I would vote for.

This is of course assuming there are no mens rea defenses i.e. insanity.

Nah that's still murder. You don't get to be judge, jury and executioner. If the Nazi was actively attacking people, then shooting him would be justified. But not like this.

coolguyjimmy posted...

Some psychopath saying "God" told him his murder victim was a Nazi, should never be vindicated.

Wearing a Swastika armband is what told him the Nazi was a Nazi.

wackyteen posted...

I mean, he's willing to face the consequences, but his convictions also include that Nazis are not human and that he morally did nothing wrong

Yeah, I would need more information. If the guy was in a really bad mood, saw a Nazi, and thought "oh boy this is the perfect opportunity to vent my frustrations with murder" and used "muh convictions" to try and avoid responsibility, I'd have to dock a few points from the "not murder" scale.

So basically the Kyle Rittenhouse killings but with the leftist doing killings.

Solar_Crimson posted...

The Nazi is reprehensible scum, but murder is murder.

Also, this incident would just further galvanize far-right fascists, so killing him makes things worse for us all.

Sadly this. The nazi just by existing and spreading evil hateful propaganda is making the world more dangerous for current and future generations, but that doesn't exactly justify him being murdered just for that. As much as I don't find value or anything worth redemption in such types of people, killing them based solely on ideology and negative beliefs is incredibly dangerous because it likely won't just stop at targeting evil, or negative people.

So yeah, after thinking about it some more. I'd go with 1st degree murder, unless the accused had like walked up, noticed the nazi and them immediately killed them, in which case I'd find them not-guilty of 1st degree murder, but guilty of 2nd degree(unless the prosecution for some reason didn't have that one there also, in which case I guess the person goes free)

Convict. Vigilante justice shouldn't be encouraged no matter what. Fathers killed men over the rape of their daughters have to face consequences too. You can't have a functioning civil society if you are allowed to kill no matter how evil and vile a person is.
Sentencing can obviously be lightened if need be depending on the context of the case. A real genuine nazi wouldn't running around in broad daylight in nazi gear without being in some poor mental state.

Give that man a medal.

Would you let a Borg walk around your town?

not justified, anyone who says otherwise is sick in the head

Nazis are a threat to anyone who's not like them, so a case could be made for self defense.

Nazis are all for taking human rights away from everyone, so it's only fair said rights don't apply to them.

Lord_Ephraim posted...

Fathers killed men over the rape of their daughters have to face consequences too.

In some places that would be legal if you kill the rapist/attempted rapist while they are attempting to rape or are raping your daughter. But you couldn't like track down the rapist and execute them.

yeah you would HAVE to convict this guy in order to preserve justice and not make exceptions. Murdering someone is unhinged, doing it publicly on the street is insane, and to acquit someone of that because they killed someone you don't share a belief system with is incredibly dangerous even if you believe you're on the side of right, they believe their side is right too. What's next, people go around executing furries because they are "sub-human"?

hsvhighlife posted...

not justified, anyone who says otherwise is sick in the head

Guess I'm sick in the head for not wanting Nazis free-roaming around in the society I'm a part of.

wackyteen posted...

Wearing a Swastika armband is what told him the Nazi was a Nazi.

That's not enough evidence to point towards it, at all.

CE is full of legit psychotic virtue signaling, paragons.

No, public executions unprovoked, should definitely be tried for murder. Holy shit.

He shot the guy from behind lol. It's obviously not self-defense.

Imagine voting for the second option. Jesus Christ.

coolguyjimmy posted...

That's not enough evidence to point towards it, at all.

Look, if you're dumb enough to fuck around with a Nazi Swastika armband on and you're not a Nazi, you deserve to find out (be that laughed out of town, punched or if yo dumbass gets got)

coolguyjimmy posted...

That's not enough evidence to point towards it, at all.

Is there a reason to dress up like a Nazi, and preach Nazi rhetoric if you're not a Nazi?

I get what you are saying Umbreon, but still we can't kill people for thinking negative, dangerous things if they aren't a immediate threat to our or our loved ones safety. As useless as the US government and it's cops are at dealing with organized groups of extreme white individuals commiting crimes be they supremacists, nationalists, or domestic terrorists, possibly because of like minded bigotry withinin the government, we can't do much but prepare just in case we have to protect ourselves.

Vicious_Dios posted...

Imagine voting for the second option. Jesus Christ.

The choice is between first degree or nothing. Depending on how 1st degree murder is defined in your area, it is entirely possible the defendant's actions do not actually qualify as that.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

CE is full of legit psychotic virtue signaling, paragons.

I take offense to that. Nothing about their rhetoric is "paragon" at all.

Number090684 posted...

I get what you are saying Umbreon, but still we can't kill people for thinking negative, dangerous things if they aren't a immediate threat to our or our loved ones safety

I agree. I just see Nazis inherently being an immediate threat to my safety and my loved ones safety. A Nazi's end goal is genocide. Complete and utter annihilation of "undesirables". They're not your garden variety racists.

Number090684 posted...

As useless as the US government and it's cops are at dealing with organized groups of extreme white individuals commiting crimes be they supremacists, nationalists, or domestic terrorists, possibly because of like minded bigotry withinin the government, we can't do much but prepare just in case we have to protect ourselves.

Perhaps. Too bad some of us wouldn't survive just waiting around and letting it happen. Nazis didn't start killing day 1. They slowly gathered their strength, slowly alienated those they wanted to get rid of

And then one day people realized a lot of other people were suddenly gone.

uwnim posted...

The choice is between first degree or nothing. Depending on how 1st degree murder is defined in your area, it is entirely possible the defendant's actions do not actually qualify as that.

No you can down grade charges usually. If a guy in trial for first degree murder you can convict of second degree murder instead. You can't go up though. People on trial for rape sometimes get convicted of assault because the evidence for rape tends to be less reliable than evidence of assault.

Skype posted...

Fuck Nazis but murder is still murder.

This

i mean, whats stopping him from doing it again? And setting the president of killing anyone you don't like? Fucking terrible.

But also, yeah.

It's not first degree unless you can prove it was premeditated. There's evidence of the man killing some trash, but is there any of premeditation?

Tyranthraxus posted...

No you can down grade charges usually. If a guy in trial for first degree murder you can convict of second degree murder instead. You can't go up though. People on trial for rape sometimes get convicted of assault because the evidence for rape tends to be less reliable than evidence of assault.

Yes. In reality that would be true. I'm talking about the poll options though.

Umbreon posted...

Is there a reason to dress up like a Nazi, and preach Nazi rhetoric if you're not a Nazi?

I can think of two reason off the top of my head:
Bullied, or Blackmailed individual forced to wear it, and either say the rhetoric (or an MP3 Player with a loud speaker saying it).
Or perhaps an Actor in a movie.

I know of some Brain Injuries that cause people to say very disturbing things, and them not believe a word of it -- and perhaps they're color-blind as well -- and thus don't see the Swastika on their arm.

There's three -- there is a hundred more, I'm sure.

wackyteen posted...

Look, if you're dumb enough to fuck around with a Nazi Swastika armband on and you're not a Nazi, you deserve to find out (be that laughed out of town, punched or if yo dumbass gets got)

There's no reason to believe they dressed themselves, in this scenario.
They could be Blind, have Learning Difficulties, be Color-Blind (and unable to see that Swastika that's green on their sleeves), be Bullied (and forced to wear it). There's a thousand scenarios -- and this isn't even taking into account Cultural differences (for perhaps they're a tourist), some cultures still use the Swastika as a symbol.

Like I said:
Some psychopath saying "God" told him his murder victim was a Nazi, should never be vindicated.

coolguyjimmy posted...

I can think of two reason off the top of my head:
Bullied, or Blackmailed individual forced to wear it, and either say the rhetoric (or an MP3 Player with a loud speaker saying it).
Or perhaps an Actor in a movie.

I know of some Brain Injuries that cause people to say very disturbing things, and them not believe a word of it -- and perhaps they're color-blind as well -- and thus don't see the Swastika on their arm.

There's three -- there is a hundred more, I'm sure.

There's no reason to believe they dressed themselves, in this scenario.
They could be Blind, have Learning Difficulties, be Color-Blind (and unable to see that Swastika that's green on their sleeves), be Bullied (and forced to wear it). There's a thousand scenarios -- and this isn't even taking into account Cultural differences (for perhaps they're a tourist), some cultures still use the Swastika as a symbol.

WHAT THE LITERAL FUCK is wrong with you

That is murder. Hell they have Klan Rallies in America you just can't mow those people down without getting a trouble. America is a about dealing with horrible people saying horrible stuff .

AloneIBreak posted...

Y'all don't know how self defense works lol. I hope you're never selected for jury duty.

^

The number of people here claiming self defense is laughable, even moreso if they believe it would fly in court given these circumstances lmao

cuttin_in_farm posted...

CE is full of legit psychotic virtue signaling, paragons.

No, public executions unprovoked, should definitely be tried for murder. Holy shit.

CE's got the collective IQ of a raisin. What do you expect? You got idiots calling it self defense on pre-emptive grounds.

They legit think real life runs on the rules of anime land.

im not saying it isnt murder

im just saying i would not penalize the guy

and no one saying self defense is saying it as a legal argument lol. cmon guys get better at understanding people

Convict. The law is the law.

You're very naive if you think giving him a pass won't lead to people killing whoever they politically disagree with.

If I'm somehow on a jury I clearly don't want to be there, so I'd probably just say whatever everyone else is saying so that I can go home quicker.

It's still murder even if around the water cooler we may all say "guy definitely had it coming though." Not being sad a bad man came to a bad end isn't the same thing as saying we should all go around serving vigilante justice.

I also take issue with "he wasn't even a human". Dehumanizing people is the Nazi philosophy. We need to own that assholes are like that are humans to help prevent the past repeating, not wash our hands of it by declaring them safely "the other" and justifying whatever we want like a damn Nazi.

coolguyjimmy posted...

I can think of two reason off the top of my head:
Bullied, or Blackmailed individual forced to wear it, and either say the rhetoric (or an MP3 Player with a loud speaker saying it).
Or perhaps an Actor in a movie.

I know of some Brain Injuries that cause people to say very disturbing things, and them not believe a word of it -- and perhaps they're color-blind as well -- and thus don't see the Swastika on their arm.

There's three -- there is a hundred more, I'm sure.

Uh huh. Or, here me out, here's a slightly more probable scenario.

They're just a plain ol Nazi.

To everyone upset over a Nazi being shot, would it help you if the person who shot them has a badge and said they feared for their life?

The nazi should be willing to die for his beliefs, and all this guy did was oblige him. I wouldn't convict, and instead suggest he be rewarded 10 thousand dollars cash.

Nullification 100%

No one should walk free from a courtroom after murdering someone just because of a fucking tattoo, even if it's a swastika tattoo. If you believe people literally deserve the death penalty for wearing a symbol or for holding a belief -- and no, it doesn't matter what that belief is -- then you're sloshing through the same moral sewer as any neo-Nazi scumbag. Shit, you're practically soulmates.

Umbreon posted...

Uh huh. Or, here me out, here's a slightly more probable scenario.

They're just a plain ol Nazi.

To everyone upset over a Nazi being shot, would it help you if the person who shot them has a badge and said they feared for their life?

This is the most CE post of all.

A juror is called to rule on the case as it was presented. I don't see the justification. "He had it coming," is not a valid defense for being the aggressor.

Truth be told I wouldn't even want to be lenient since it's not like an enraged father finding the man who raped his child and putting them down. This is straight "I don't like who you are," which is completely unjustifiable for killing someone without direct provocation. It's basically the logic of a hate crime.

Solid_Sonic posted...

A juror is called to rule on the case as it was presented. I don't see the justification. "He had it coming," is not a valid defense for being the aggressor.

Truth be told I wouldn't even want to be lenient since it's not like an enraged father finding the man who raped his child and putting them down. This is straight "I don't like who you are," which is completely unjustifiable for killing someone without direct provocation.

Well said.

If you give leniency to the idea of killing based on belief systems, you open every murder case up to being judged on the merit of how socially acceptable the victims belief system was at the time or his or her death.

wackyteen posted...

Being willing to perform a public execution on a degenerate Nazi piece of shit =/= willing to perform public executions on anybody.

He believes that some beliefs forgo you of the right to life. That by believing them, you're an imminent, active threat to everyone around you at all times

Why don't you try petitioning for the right to kill Nazis?

Guilty with time served.

Man won't someone think of the poor nazi