Board 8 > Board 8 Watches and Ranks Organized Crime Films: THE RANKING

(+) Yeah! (+)

Smokin Aces wouldve been a better inclusion that Slevin >_>

Guess Gangster no 1..

Everybody bet Gangster No. 1 and got Kansas City Shuffled out of their wagers. Starting to believe that Vegas has this thing rigged in GN1's favor.

Vegas Odds on #24:

+500 Gangster No. 1
+700 Scarface (1932)
+700 White Heat
+800 Sicario
+1000 Donnie Brasco
+1250 L.A. Confidential
+1250 Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
+1250 Gangs of New York
+250 Any Other Movie [+2000 if you guess correctly]

Leaderboard:
1) BetrayedTangy: +600 The Public Enemy
1) PokeWars: +600 The Public Enemy

Slevin is officially the new Terrifier--a fun, stupid movie that a few people loved (me included) and everyone else pegged as trash that didn't belong.

Predicting gangster no 1

Will guess Sicario for next

I'll guess White Heat again.

I'm surprised that Slevin edged out American Gangster, I figured the latter would last until the teens

I think I'm gonna go with Donnie Brasco.

Seginustemple posted...

I'll guess White Heat again.

I'm surprised that Slevin edged out American Gangster, I figured the latter would last until the teens

I know what you mean... AG has that average, middle-of-the-road feel to it, but it was so average that it couldn't garner any Top 10 rankings.

Slevin was the definition of a love/hate movie, but the love was enough to save it from the Bottom 5.

24. Gangster No. 1 (2000)
Directed by: Paul McGuigan
Runtime: 1h 43m
Score: 224

John: 2
Karo: 3
Tangy: 20
Poke: 20
Snake: 21
plasma: 23
ssbm: 24
seginus: 26
rockus: 27
Vis: 29
Mythiot: 29

John
If there's one movie that made it onto this list due to personal bias, it's this one. This was a favorite of mine from when I first started really getting into crime films, and (along with A Knight's Tale) cemented Paul Bettany as one of my absolute favorite actors. Gangster No. 1 is only halfway an organized crime film, going through the typical rise-to-power of a low-level gangster. The other half is a dive into the mind of a true deranged madman lurking under the surface of a well-groomed persona. It feels very 'A Clockwork Orange' inspired, in no small part due to Malcolm McDowell's role here. The unnamed 'Young Gangster' is that same type of over-the-top unhinged hyper-violent as Alex DeLarge, and the way it's all presented by McGuinan here all kinda drives it in.

Karo
A young gangster wants to be the very best like no one ever was and so he jealously betrays the gang boss so he can be on top.
It is oozing with style and has great performances from everyone involved and tells a good story without needing to be as long as Gone with the fucking Wind. I was always interested and engaged with what was going on and the occasional weird britishness was charming.

Tangy
While I thought this was better than McGuigans other work, it still has a glaring problem. The writing just isnt what it needs to be to make this kind of film work for me. If Tarantino, McDonagh or Ritchie helped write this Im
sure itd be one of my favorites, but the dialogue just doesnt have the wit for me to be fully invested in these characters. That said its still a step above LNS for good reason. For starters I love the insanity McDowell brings to this role, the only other time Ive seen him this high energy was when he was 30 years younger in Clockwork, but Im glad to see he still had the energy for this. Bettany also brought some skills with his killer stare. Not many performances have pierced my soul, but I can proudly say this is one of them.

Poke
This was a bizarre one, to be sure, but I like that. And it has some fine actors to carry the strange direction of the film.

Snake
After the postmodern 90s films, this skilled continuation of the classic London gangster mode reaches back in time a bit, while managing to still feel new and fresh. The result is a darker and violent world that feels dystopian with an almost "The Prisoner '' type feel with how characters are numbered and under what circumstances they are under. Very interesting film overall though not top-tier.

plasma
What it lacks in polish, it makes up for in, wellsomething?

Technically speaking, theres a lot wrong with this movie. First off, it does a shitty job of drawing in the viewer with that clumsy opening scene where old geezers cackle and dine beside a live boxing match. I wasnt sure what to thinkis this a comedy? An absurdist piece? Or just bad writing?

Anyway, after leaving to use the bathroom, the protagonistwho looks like Michael Keaton if Michael Keatons face had spent the past twenty years inside a hornets nestinadvertently pisses into his champagne glass before breaking the 4th Wall and sending us back in time to when he first joined the mob back in the late Sixties.

In his youth, our hero is neither compelling nor likablehes essentially one of the 1930s protagonists, minus the acting charisma. He embarks on a plot journey thats a watered-down copy/paste of Scarface 1932 with some wrinkles added in to avoid plagiarism accusations. Basically our hero wants to usurp his boss and steal the guys retired-hooker girlfriend Karen. Fresh and exciting!

Soon our hero learns of an assassination plot against his boss and decides to let it happen. Around this time he also morphs into a Slasher villain and starts hacking up supporting characters, starting with the black guy, because apparently hes an old-school Slasher villain. Then the boss and his girlfriend get assassinated around the midpointOR DO THEY?

In the final act we flash-forward to the present day and learn that Karen survived the assassination attempt. This comes as a shock to our hero, who somehow thought she was dead for thirty years (WTF?). Whats even more shocking is that somehow Karens neckwhich was slit and bleeding midway through the moviebears no scars or even wrinkle-lines thirty years later (Double-WTF?).

Then we have our finale, where our hero offers his bosswho spent decades in jail after being framed for a Slasher murderan easy opportunity for revenge. Boss Man refuses because hed rather enjoy Karen and her silky-smooth neck. Shortly after, our hero jumps to his death after spouting Im number one! in comic fashion.

So, yeah What a ludicrous, horrible movie. And I didnt even mention the laughable special effects, the lazy practical effects, or the overabundance of on-screen snot, spit, and vomit.

In spite of my many complaints, I enjoyed Gangster No. 1. Its a pulpy throwback to the pre-Godfather movies on this list, and at times it reminded me of American Psycho. The protagonist is so consistently unlikable that I actually bought into him more as the story went on. The finale with his boss refusing revenge and living out his life as a decent man was oddly refreshingI believe thats the first time weve seen a mob boss become the reformed good guy in the end.

GN1 is probably the worst movie on our list from a technical standpoint, but it scores points for beingwell, something. D+

ssbm
Rating: D+

This is the only movie I watched that didn't have subtitles and, boy, did it suffer from it. I'm already pretty bad at following American movies without subtitles. Throw in an accent and I'm missing every third line. From what I gather, this movie is fine. It's the rare case where I feel the middle of the movie might be the best, when Paul Bettany is slowly drifting into becoming manical. It's when he reveals his psychopathy to Karen. It's when he learns about a plot to kill Freddie and delightfully watches as Freddie loses everything. The torture scene of the other gangster is also pretty good, particularly the monologue that goes on while he's committing it.

The beginning of the movie doesn't really explain why the protagonist is so hellbent on taking over Freddie's position. He seems fine with it at first, but things started to get out-of-hand when Freddie lends him his tie pin and he goes to a club. For some reason, he's just obsessed with Karen and I don't quite know why. I like Malcolm McDowell's monologues and when we switch over to McDowell in the present. He just has this way of just eating his lines. You can really tell he just relished in his savagery. McDowell seems like a pretty bad boss! I wasn't really into anything during the present day scene except when McDowell is just tearing into the older Freddie and Freddie just doesn't care.

seginus
Gives Scarface an American Psycho facelift and makes him British. One theme that came up frequently in this list was the attention to fashion - here the anonymous gangster obsesses over his boss's outfit before taking it (along with his role/identity), recalling the original Scarface's arc of stealing his boss' look. Only this time, he fully salivates over the cufflinks like it's Paul Allen's business card and Dorsia's all booked up. There's an interesting character study in here but I think the overall story has been outdone by earlier movies on the list, and for every unique moment that actually worked for me (Bettany pulling weird grimaces to himself) there would be something that struck me as hokey (Bettany brooding at the window for 5 minutes while the rest of the gang fails to notice his unsubtle body language). A lot of these movies have used the time skip/flashback framing device too, and that could have been more fleshed out here.

I also thought it was weird that Paul Bettany aged into Malcolm McDowell but David Thewlis just aged into old makeup - but maybe there's some intentional irony there since the Freddie Mays character is supposed to be the one who is 'changed' by the end while Gangster 55 remains static? Or maybe that's being too generous!

rockus
A bit uneven but notable for an early Paul Bettany role playing a type he might not be known for later in his career, but he certainly carries it well. Unfortunately falls apart a bit in its third act but worth watching overall. Between the two Paul McGuigan films on this list this is far and away the better one. '

Vis
This whole movie was just unpleasant from start to finish. Im over 2/3 of the way through the list at this point, and Ive seen plenty of violent assholes rise through the ranks of organized crime to reach positions of powerbut theyre usually somewhat charismatic, or at least capable or portraying charm. Paul Bettany/Malcolm McDowell portray a violent sociopath who shows almost no capacity for humor or wit, and just spends the movie sulking and jealously coveting the seeming wealth his boss has. But then after getting the position of power he sought, hes STILL unhappy. This would be fine if they didnt montage thirty years of his life to him being a crazy, bitter old man. I think this is the flaw of having a depraved and unlikable character who, in the context of the plot, goes thirty years without suffering any real drawbacks to being a violent scumbag. Even the ending, where he loses his mind at the sight of his old boss (finally released from prison), feels unearned, given everything else we saw during the film.

Mythiot
Paul Bettany delivers a great performance as a British Psycho who channels his anger at his co-gangster finding a girlfriend to become a particularly brutal mob lord. Unfortunately, the rest of the film doesnt keep up with him as it was pretty dull and forgettable. The torture scene was pretty creepy, but thats all that really stood out to me.

Outlier Ranking

rockus: 66
Poke: 54
plasma: 49
Snake: 47
John: 46
ssbm: 45
Karo: 44
Mythiot: 40
Vis: 33
seginus: 26
Tangy: 20

some shakeups, mostly from myself and Karo jumping up from low-tier to mid

I don't think I'll ever truly get a read on what Karo likes or dislikes.

Anyway, gonna guess Once Upon a Time in America next.

Crazy how a few of us all compared GN1 to American Psycho. Even crazier when you consider that GN1 and AP (the movie version) released within two months of each other, which means AP couldn't have influenced GN1's script or production.

Would love to know if anyone involved with GN1 read the book version of AP.

GN1 finally drops, and Poke and Vis get paid! We're hitting the stage of the rankings where things are much less predictable, so I'm raising the odds a bit.

Vegas Odds on #23:

+750 Scarface (1932)
+750 White Heat
+750 Sicario
+1000 Donnie Brasco
+1000 Gangs of New York
+1250 The Untouchables
+1250 Casino
+1250 L.A. Confidential
+1250 Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
+1500 The Irishman
+300 Any Other Movie [+2000 if you guess correctly]

Leaderboard:
1) PokeWars: $1100 (+600 The Public Enemy, +500 Gangster No. 1)
1) BetrayedTangy: $600 (+600 The Public Enemy)
3) Inviso $500 (+500 Gangster No. 1)

plasmabeam posted...

Crazy how a few of us all compared GN1 to American Psycho. Even crazier when you consider that GN1 and AP (the movie version) released within two months of each other, which means AP couldn't have influenced GN1's script or production.

Would love to know if anyone involved with GN1 read the book version of AP.

It an easy comparison to make! The same thought crossed my head while watching it as well, in addition to the Clockwork Orange comparison

for that reason I'm a little surprised Snake didn't like it more tbh

I'll guess Scarface (1932)

Johnbobb posted...

It an easy comparison to make! The same thought crossed my head while watching it as well, in addition to the Clockwork Orange comparison

for that reason I'm a little surprised Snake didn't like it more tbh

Didn't make the connection to Clockwork Orange when I watched GN1. Also had no idea that GN1's protagonist was played by the same actor as Alex from Clockwork Orange. Mind = blown.

25. Lucky Number Slevin (2006)
Directed by: Paul McGuigan

ssbm: 7
plasma: 8

ssbm
Rating: B+
plasma
B+

24. Gangster No. 1 (2000)
Directed by: Paul McGuigan

plasma: 23
ssbm: 24

plasma
D+
ssbm
Rating: D+

Plot twist: SSBM is my alt account.

I just think it lacked the satirical tight edge of something like American Psycho. Like, the characters are great but I think the film plays it all very straight, which is fine and I get the comparison totally but it just didn't have the boost I needed to elevate on my list a little higher.

Alright gimme White Heat again, these b&w classics can't hold on forever

the protagonistwho looks like Michael Keaton if Michael Keatons face had spent the past twenty years inside a hornets nest

Lol damn, brutal Mcdowell burn

I think I'll go White Heat too

I'm going to guess 30's Scarface

Plot twist: SSBM is my alt account.

I should compile compatibility scores once this is all finished. Could be a fun way to look at the scores.

Honestly, the funniest thing about Slevin was the fact that Slevin was shirtless for like a third of the movie. I remember that more vividly than any dialogue. I thought Slevin's dialogue was charming, but nothing special. Definitely agreed that Lucy Liu was the standout character. I also agree that Liu surviving using a bulletproof vest was pretty stupid.

If I had a little more time, I would have given GN1 a re-watch (and subs, while I'm at it). I was pretty distracted with watching the movie. Admittedly, it would have only gotten so far, because I wasn't a major fan of the ending and ending matters a lot for me.

Scarface 1932 is my guess.

plasmabeam posted...

GN1 finally drops, and Poke and Vis get paid! We're hitting the stage of the rankings where things are much less predictable, so I'm raising the odds a bit.

Yeah I suck at predicting from the jump, but this will get pretty tricky, with the top 12 or so going any number of ways.

Sicario for next

23. Sicario (2015)
Directed by: Denis Villeneuve
Runtime: 2h 1m
Score: 216

Tangy: 5
Snake: 11
seginus: 12
ssbm: 16
John: 20
Mythiot: 22
Karo: 24
plasma: 25
rockus: 25
Vis: 27
Poke: 29

Tangy
Roger Deakins is a God. Seriously. I cannot get over how good this cinematography is. This would literally make Hitchcock shit his pants. I could go on and on about the sweeping overheads of El Juarez or the cramped highway shootout or the claustrophobic finale in the tunnel. But Im running far enough behind on these write ups as is. I just love how grimy the whole movie feels. It doesnt hide how crooked the FBI/CIA are, but it also shows exactly what theyre up against and it leads into this unique feeling of mutual understanding, but not approval. This is perfectly represented by Blunt as our lead. Shes a great twist on the by the books cop archetype. The way she maintains a voice of reason without coming off as naive is brilliant. On top of that she is totally badass. If you can make a character look cool while losing a fight you know your character is awesome. If I were up against Bernthal like I probably wouldnt look much better than ol Hitchcock back there.

Snake
Excellent. Extremely well-made. Horrific even. Its pace, structure, and aesthetic really usher the gangster film into the modern era. Unblinkingly intense from the opening to the very last frames, tense scenes like the ride into Juarez with the gruesome bodies on display or the sickening ending are stunningly thrilling and frightening in a way that feels more connected to our real world than the gangster fantasies of the past. I think Sicario is a fantastic movie.

seginus
I'm a fan of Villeneuve's economical meat-and-potatoes approach, focusing on mood/vibe while avoiding information clutter. That said, I also understand the popular criticism that this approach sometimes leaves the characters underdeveloped and I think that applies here. Didn't really connect to any of them or find them memorable, but the film is so damn well-made otherwise it wasn't actually a big problem for me. I'm big on the audiovisual experience and the Jhann Jhannsson score combined with Roger Deakins' cinematography win me over here. Several standout scenes deliver an intensity that verges into horror, from the opening raid to the border crossing to the tunnel operation. Great atmosphere and tone.

ssbm
Rating: C

This movie's fairly simple, but well-directed and well-portrayed. I like Kate, Alejandra, and Matt a lot. I think they all play their role well and I like the relationship between all three. Admittedly, I do think Kate plays up her naivety a little too much. I can't believe she's FBI. She feels very green, as if she hasn't gone through any actual experience at all.

There's something oddly modern about this movie. I don't know what it is. I'm not sure if it's the fact that it's the only movie that takes place after 2008. I'm not sure if it's the way the CIA/FBI squads move and investigate their target. I'm not sure if it's the guns. I'm not sure if it's the actual camera technology that's capturing the film. But it's very modern and sleek in a way that I like, but also makes me feel uncomfortable. The border scene and the ending are both good examples of what I mean. The border scene, especially. Just seeing all the FBI/CIA move out of the cars and surround the two cartel cars with calculation is just...odd to see. It feels like Call of Duty, but real life. I'm not sure if I like it, but it's certainly interesting.

I feel like this movie is missing a grander plot. The themes seem rather simplistic despite taking place in a more complex world. You have to be evil to fight evil? The world isn't split to good/bad? Maybe I'm discriminating against this movie for being so recent, but I'm just left with wanting more. Even the ending feels a little too clean for my taste. Maybe it was just fatigue after watching 28 similar movies.

John
I'm of the opinion that if Training Day is on the list, Sicario has to be as well. Training Day's dive into questions of "how far as a cop can you go and still feel justified in your actions" are taken further here, not just in scope (going from street level crime to international cartels via the FBI/CIA) but in the extent to which an entire government agency will go, hiring Del Toro (who gets a good bit more screen time here than he did in Snatch), a man who can be called nothing short of a sociopathic assassin, to do their dirty work for them under the guise of a "legal" takedown operation. It's tense and brutal, less so because of the "criminals" and more so because of those employed to take them down.

Karo
Two FBI agents are assigned to a task force designed to combat mexican cartel activity and many misogynistic comments were had. Remember kids, the most important tip to being effective in law enforcement is remembering to wear a sexy brassiere.
So Agent Kate is someone who just might be the most inconsequential protagonist ever. Her effect on the overall story is pretty much nil. I kept waiting for her to actually do something other than whine a lot and get her ass kicked, but alas it was not to be.
The story unfolds with the air of being an off-brand movie adaptation of the '24' tv series with a plot that is predictable and tone that is almost offensively american.
Hey, you want to have your heroes come under attack from cartel thugs as they cross the border? Better make sure to inform the audience multiple times that not only that there is a good chance the convoy will be attacked, but that it will probably happen right at the border crossing. The hell if we are gonna let anyone watching this movie be surprised.
So the film eventually forgets the female lead even exists, and this side character goes off to kick some cartel ass to culminate a revenge story that was tossed upon us offhand halfway through the movie. What a mess.

plasma
The most uneven movie on our list. It opens with bang, then sludges along for quite a while before finding its legs again. What hurts it most is the characters. Who are these drips? Why should I care? The protagonist Kate Macer is introduced as a tactical FBI badass before she morphs into a passive, by-the-book frump who possesses as much charisma as a bowl of oatmeal. This isnt Emily Blunts fault (she was great in Edge of Tomorrow) but rather the fault of the writers. They give us little, if any, reason to care about Kate until the bar scene that shakes up the films tone and finally humanizes her.

But shortly afterwards, it stops being Kates story. We learn that Alejandro, a mysterious-yet-bland outsider in her CIA group, is actually an assassin hellbent on getting revenge for his familys murder. He hogs the spotlight in the final act as he tracks down and murders the drug lord who is the CIAs target. Kate is nowhere to be found during this sequence, and while she and Alejandro do have a final confrontation later, its still a bummer to see the protagonist standing on the sidelines during such a critical scene.

Though Kate has her moments, I didnt like a single character in this movie. Theres nobody worth rooting for, and the corrupt/gray-area CIA agents arent captivating in any way. Its a shame because the plot here is great. Theres plenty of deception, mystery, and suspense that couldve been amplified had any effort been put into the main cast. I get that the writers were trying to push a theme of By-The-Book vs. Off-The-Record, but the characters representing honesty turned out dull and the ones representing corruption were underdeveloped at best.

One thing I did like about Sicario was its genre flexibility. Obviously its an organized crime story that explores the CIAs influence on south-of-the-border drug cartels, but it also contains spy thriller tropes, war elements, and even some horror vibes like when the team enters Juarez early on. I was hoping the modern films on our list would try to blend genres, and this mightve been the best example outside of Pulp Fiction.

Now I need to unload one last complaint. I nailed Training Day for having a scene where Ethan Hawke is saved by writerly convenience (Wallet Ex Machina), and the same issue arises here in Sicario. When Kate fights The Punisher at her apartment, she nearly gets choked to death before Alejandro magically appears to save her. I hate when heroes get rescued by bad writing like this. Whether its Wallet Ex Machina or Assassin Ex Machina, its inexcusable. D+

rockus
A great looking Roger Deakins shot film that I wish I got more out of. Like a lot of Denis Villeneuve work I cant help but feel cold and pretty emotionally detached from the whole thing. Brolin, Blunt, and del Toro are all pretty great in it though.

Vis
This one was just a little too realistic for me, but not in a fun or enjoyable way. Its just a really GRITTY movie without any real likable characters or even INTERESTING characters. Benicio del Toro is the most memorable person in this movie, but even he is largely flat and stoic as an emotionless killer, so he doesnt even have that frightening sociopathy that you might get out of, say, an Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men. Largely though, this movie is about Emily Blunt, who is in WAY over her head from minute one, just getting dragged through the mud constantly, and by the end of the movie, she is thoroughly beaten down by the world she got dragged into, and its such a bleak and unpleasant ending overall. If the movie ended on del Toro getting revenge on the cartel leader that killed his family (which is brutal in and of itself), maybe this wouldve felt more satisfying. But instead its just a final scene proving to Emily Blunt that yes, shes too weak to survive in law enforcement. It just leaves such a sour taste in my mouth and it was hard to enjoy the plot overall.

Poke
Even though I enjoyed Sicario, I was liken this more to a law-enforcement-type film. Yes, cartels are involved, but we really see more of Emily Blunt's character's perspective and then it was just taken over at the end with Benicio avenging his wife and kid, so the whole plot seemed to just...swerve? Still, a solid film.

Outlier Ranking

rockus: 68
Poke: 60
Snake: 59
ssbm: 52
plasma: 51
John: 49
Karo: 44
Mythiot: 42
Tangy: 38
Vis: 37
seginus: 37

8 rankings in and it's still anyone's game

fortybelowsummer posted...

Yeah I suck at predicting from the jump, but this will get pretty tricky, with the top 12 or so going any number of ways.

There are about five movies that are absolute locks for the Top 10, but the rest could appear just about anywhere.

Lot of quality stuff on this list, and if you look at the scores Johnbobb posted, you'll see that most movies are separated from the next by less than ten points. There are no tiers or steep dropoffs or anything like that.

SSBM_Guy posted...

If I had a little more time, I would have given GN1 a re-watch (and subs, while I'm at it). I was pretty distracted with watching the movie. Admittedly, it would have only gotten so far, because I wasn't a major fan of the ending and ending matters a lot for me.

Ah, more evidence to you being my alt account. I watched every movie on this list with the subtitles on. It made a huge difference (especially with my re-watches) because this genre tends to throw around a ton of character and family names. It's much easier to follow everything if the names can be seen as well as heard.

I would never expect someone to watch a Guy Ritchie movie without subtitles

Fortybelow makes some money with a last-second wager on Sicario!

Vegas Odds on #22:

+600 Scarface (1932)
+600 White Heat
+1000 Donnie Brasco
+1000 Gangs of New York
+1250 The Untouchables
+1250 Casino
+1250 L.A. Confidential
+1250 Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
+1500 The Irishman
+300 Any Other Movie [+2000 if you guess correctly]

Leaderboard:
1) PokeWars: $1100 (+600 The Public Enemy, +500 Gangster No. 1)
2) Fortybelowsummer (+750 Sicario)
3) BetrayedTangy: $600 (+600 The Public Enemy)
4) Inviso $500 (+500 Gangster No. 1)

Woohoo

Try White Heat for next

Guess Scarface (1932).

Huh. I was expecting Sicario to last a little longer. Admittedly, I also didn't expect to be one of the higher ranks for Sicario.

Keeping with Scarface 1932.

I'll stick with White Heat

Guessing White Heat

Gonna guess the Irishman

22. The Untouchables (1987)
Directed by: Brian De Palma
Runtime: 1h 59m
Score: 211

Vis: 6
Tangy: 13
plasma: 14
rockus: 17
Karo: 18
Poke: 19
seginus: 19
ssbm: 21
Snake: 26
Mythiot: 28
John: 30

Vis
You know, sometimes you just want to watch something relatively upbeat, where the heroes are heroic, and succeed in their heroism. Thats what The Untouchables is. After ten movies revolving around the criminal aspect of organized crime (most of which were very serious and grim by their very nature), this film managed to bring light to the genre in a way that was much-needed for this watchthrough, and really for movies in general. Its just enjoyable to have some comic relief that can get killed and need to be avenged by a conquering hero. Kevin Costner and Sean Connery do a great job playing the straight-laced Treasury agent and the hardened beat cop, Andy Garcia is a solid side character, and the nerdy accountant joining the team and turning into a total badass was a great addition.

I loved the fact that they had the movie play out like a real back and forth, just like Connery said early on. They hit you, you hit them back harder. Thats how things started, with Costner looking like a fool, only to strike back and make Capone look foolish. Back and forth, back and forth, with Nitty looking like a total scumbag every time he showed up on-screen. It all culminated in two amazing scenes, with the brilliant cinematography of the train station scene, complete with high stakes of a baby in peril, and then the courtroom turnabout, where Nitty got what he deserved to a great musical score, and Capones wheeling and dealing wasnt enough to save him for once. I just found the whole film very satisfying to watch, and it was a great addition to this list.

Tangy
I was not expecting this movie to be so badass and funny, but Im all for it! What makes The Untouchables so cool is the melding of genres. De Palma takes the classic mobster formula and covers it with a Western coat of paint. The use of color and Morricones score really contributed to that and by the
time I reached the scene with the horse I was totally sold on the aesthetic. It honestly helped me enjoy the story more too as Costners character is super lame in any other movie. Sure hes pretty lame here too, but he really leans into that classic sheriff vs outlaw feel. Which reminds me De Niro was awesome too! He might not have played the most nuanced version of Capone, but I dont think thats the point. It all just goes towards a character thats easy to root against. He was a fun cartoonishly evil villain that completely backs the feel of the movie. Oh yeah then we have Sean Connery, this is probably my favorite performance of his. He manages to balance being an experienced badass while still being genuine and honest with both himself and his colleagues, while getting down to business when a job needs to be done. Overall just a fun time and was a great change in pace for the list.

plasma
After watching ten straight movies where the focal characters were criminals, it was refreshing to watch a classic Good vs. Evil story where I could finally root against the scumbags. There mustve been some heap of rage building within me during this project, because while watching this movie, I wanted to beat Al Capone to death with a rusty hammer. I fucking hated the guy, and De Niro did a terrific job at making Capone loathsome.

Eliot Ness and his band of Untouchables were easy to root for because I love heroes who spit in the face of corruption. Sure, the movie tries too hard to lionize Ness crew, but Im a sucker for moments like when Ness throws the money envelope back in the bribers face. Theres also a great protege/mentor relationship between Ness and Sean Connerys Malone character.

By the way, I was SHOCKED when Malone got killed. This movie does a great job of toying with your expectations. You think Malone had the upper hand with his shotgun, but then he gets Tommy-gunned outside his home. The courthouse shootout also has some great fakeouts, like when Ness shoots the Man In Whites hat instead of killing him, and then ultimately pushes the asswipe off the roof. Hes in the car. Love it.

The standout action scene, however, was the train station scene, and that was a master class in tension and suspense. Though some might argue it was ridiculous or too Matrix-y, I was gripped.

Have to admit, I wish this movie had more room to breathe. Its only two hours long and feels rushed at times, thin at others. My biggest problem is that it feels more like a collection of great scenes rather than a cohesive, fluid story. Learning more about Ness and his motivations for stopping Capone wouldve been great. I dont know much about the actual historical figure, but I wish the writers wouldve taken some time to explore Ness and the rest of his crew. That wouldve boosted this movie up a tier in my eyes. B-

rockus
One of the many great things I love about Brian De Palma has been his ability to take his cinematic influences and references and utilize them for his own work. Whether theyre Hitchcock references in the likes of Dressed to Kill or Body Double, or the reference to Touch of Evils long take in the opening of Phantom of the Paradise, or the Odessa steps sequence from Battleship Potemkin used in this, hes able to take these iconic visual moments and reshape them into something his own. Costner might be a bit overshadowed by the rest of the cast but hes sturdy enough to carry it.

Karo
During prohibition, a lone Treasury agent puts together a super-team of weird individuals to fight the grave moral sin of having a beer, and they call themselves... the untouchables! (spoilers, they actually are touchable)
The film is mildly entertaining, though some elements such as the 'nerd' agent were silly and irritating. Not to mention all the stupidity that went down in the train station. Oh my god just show the mother with a baby your badge and tell her to gtfo, don't jeopardize the mission just you can help pull her child into the line of fire you stupid dipshit.
The characters are decently done, I can understand how they tick very well and unlike many of these films I can easily differentiate who is who. Some scenes seem a bit hammy but I guess that is part of appeal maybe?

Poke
Sean Connery as the sage mentor. It's worked in so many other films, so yeah, duh, it works here. And the rest of the film is action-packed, trying to take down one of the most notorious gangsters, played wonderfully by de Niro. You can tell he was chewing the scenery with that role.

seginus
There's an unusual cheeriness to this that sometimes spills over into a corny "for he's a jolly good fellow" vibe surrounding Kevin Costner's white knight role. But I like that it's about dignifying Elliot Ness more than making Al Capone seem cool. Costner channels Jimmy Stewart's gentleman aura while De Niro is despicable in his brief screentime, Connery brings gravitas as a streetwise beat cop who knows all the unfortunate italian slurs and Andy Garcia brings up the rear as the underwritten sharpshooter. And there's nerdy accountant guy too! I do like that the title takes on different meaning over the course of the film, the cops that can't be bought, the criminals that can't be caught, and the children who shan't be shot. It's about family!

ssbm
Rating: C-

This movie is a fairly simple watch, especially since I watched in chronological order. Godfather to Scarface 1983 is just...big themes, big story, big everything. This? This is just "let's get Al Capone." Simple. I probably like it more than I should for that reason alone. This movie's by-the-book. Good performances, but nothing amazing. Even de Niro as Capone feels oddly muted here. Good plot, but nothing too memorable. I thought having the accountant be around to say "hey, what about tax evasion" was kind of an eye-roll of a joke, but I audibly laughed when Malone gave him a gun and had him officially join The Untouchables.

There's a few scenes that really bother me. Near the end, Ness chases one of Capone's goons on some rooftops. The guy is dangling from the rooftop, but Ness gets him back up. The guy makes a comment about how Malone squealed when he died and this causes pristine-clean Ness to shove the guy off the rooftop and essentially murder him. You got this far being pristine and that's what causes you to flip? I don't mind that he flips. I mind that he flips over this. To me, it's the equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum. I also thought the Union Station scene where the baby in a stroller falls for minutes was an absurd scene. Enjoyable scene, but definitely absurd.

The music is pretty good. It is, after all, Enrico Morricone. I especially liked Capone's jam in the hotel. But Morricone has a rare miss at the very end of the movie where Capone is finally put away. It plays this super triumphant music that's just...I can't take it seriously. it's "everyone stands up and clap"-level of triumphant and that's just too much for me.

Snake
A very Hollywooded up telling of the Al Capone story, filled with all the character beats and plot points and inaccuracies you would expect. Competently directed and acted of course, but its really lacking a sort of wow factor thats needed to really draw me into the world of gangsters like this.

Mythiot
About time we got to see Al Capone himself in one of these films, after several fictional characters based on him. Unfortunately, I wasnt a huge fan of this one. Its unbearably corny, with the extremely black and white take on not only the police vs the mob, but Prohibition itself, showing Ness nobly forbidding any of his men from drinking since its the law of the land, albeit one that is almost universally considered in hindsight to be a mistake. But in case. And just in case you dont know youre supposed to root against the bootleggers, they make sure to have a little girl get blown up at the beginning. Griping aside, this honestly isnt a bad movie. Theres plenty of cool moments, even silly cool moments, and Sean Connery is fun as ever, but this is a victim of the Kevin Costner curse, where his presence makes whatever hes in significantly worse than it might have been.

John
"I will uphold the law by any means necessary, no matter how many laws I have to break to do it!" This was honestly more boring than I thought it would be. WIth a DeNiro playing Al Capone and Sean Connery being the one trying to take him down, I thought this would be more thrilling, but it really just didn't grab me. I never really understood why Kevin Costner gets cast as a main lead so much when the guy was by far the flattest performance of the big 3 here, and that bland, pale-faced everyman is just kinda who he always seems to play. It didn't help that the movie was so driven by its black-and-white good guys v. bad guys premise that kinda robbed it of any moral intrigue. When the villain of the film blows up a child in literally the first scene, it almost makes you feel like the film is arguing that prohibition was a good thing. Just not much here to really make it stand out. And there's a LOT of overacting. Like, to an absurd extent, even by the actors that are normally solid. Best performance was EASILY Andy Garcia as "George Stone" but he's unfortunately underutilized. Costner yelling "What are you, deaf?" at a dead guy was pretty great though.

Mythiot

this is a victim of the Kevin Costner curse, where his presence makes whatever hes in significantly worse than it might have been.

Johnbobb posted...

I never really understood why Kevin Costner gets cast as a main lead so much when the guy was by far the flattest performance of the big 3 here, and that bland, pale-faced everyman is just kinda who he always seems to play.

my man

Outlier Ranking

rockus: 73
Poke: 63
Snake: 63
plasma: 59
John: 57
ssbm: 53
Vis: 53
Karo: 48
Mythiot: 48
Tangy: 47
seginus: 40

Guess Scarface (1932)

Awww, boo.

i considered doing this ranking but realized there was no way i'd be able to watch through them all, but i'd seen around half the list. so far, i've seen very few though (maybe only little caesar?)

SeabassDebeste posted...

i considered doing this ranking but realized there was no way i'd be able to watch through them all, but i'd seen around half the list. so far, i've seen very few though (maybe only little caesar?)

Maybe that means you've mostly just seen the better ones!

except Gangster No. 1 which deserved better

The moment I added The Untouchables to the odds list, it bowed out. Blame Vegas.

Vegas Odds on #21:

+600 Scarface (1932)
+600 White Heat
+1000 Donnie Brasco
+1000 Gangs of New York
+1250 Casino
+1250 L.A. Confidential
+1250 Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
+1500 Training Day
+1500 The Irishman
+300 Any Other Movie [+2000 if you guess correctly]

Leaderboard:
1) PokeWars: $1100 (+600 The Public Enemy, +500 Gangster No. 1)
2) Fortybelowsummer (+750 Sicario)
3) BetrayedTangy: $600 (+600 The Public Enemy)
4) Inviso $500 (+500 Gangster No. 1)

Gotta say I'm happy that at least one black-and-white movie will survive the Bottom 10.

Guessing Donnie Brasco.

That's tragic, I honestly felt the more simplistic story to be a refreshing change of pace. It let me just sit back and enjoy the goofiness of it all.

Edit: Oh yeah guessing Gangs of New York.

BetrayedTangy posted...

That's tragic, I honestly felt the more simplistic story to be a refreshing change of pace. It let me just sit back and enjoy the goofiness of it all.

Agreed. Within the context of this project, The Untouchables was a breath of fresh air, and I think that's what boosted it into the top half of my rankings.

On the other hand, if you showed me this movie on any random day, I probably would've been like, "Eh. Decent movie. Nothing special."