Board 8 > Andy plays the Dark Souls of video games

(+) Yeah! (+)

Just another example of how the game rewards knowledge!

andylt posted...

I hate when you press the wrong button and have to wait hopelessly as your character gets around to executing the motion after finishing what he was already doing >_> Good to discourage button mashing I suppose.

This was a big part of why I didn't really like Dark Souls' combat tbh

andylt posted...

We eventually enter the grand entry hall from the side, and dispose of two giant guards. These things annoy me until I realise they can heal, so instead of diving on them from above I split them up and deal with them normally. For their size they sure are adept at jumping. I'm surprised they respawn.

I very quickly decided to just run past those guys. They're super annoying to actually deal with.

The Archers on that ledge is like the absolute worst. Good job getting past it.

And yeah, I just always kick Lautrec off the cliff when he gets to Firelink Shrine. Screw that guy.

Grand_Kirby posted...

And yeah, I just always kick Lautrec off the cliff when he gets to Firelink Shrine. Screw that guy.

Yep, done this in every run since my first, you get rid of him before he does his thing and you get a great ring out of it.

Kenri posted...

This was a big part of why I didn't really like Dark Souls' combat tbh

Every buffered command can be interrupted by a dodge. It can also cancel some animations early. Understand the input buffering in general is probably the hardest thing in these games, but it feels so damn good when you get it.

Oh, yeah I did not figure that out, at least not consciously. Like I think I knew dodges took precedence but never really utilized them specifically for that.

If I were to do another playthrough I'd just leave Lautrec locked up >_> I tried him again a few times today but it's no good. It's not like I need Firelink's bonfire lit so I'll just come back to it later.

My instincts were right, a boss fight was imminent. In fact, two in one! Dragon Slayer Ornstein and Executioner Smough are kind of fascinating. They don't do any team attacks or combo work at all, they're simply two boss fights overlaid onto each other. And somehow it works, this fight feels very epic (not least because of the kickass music and grand arena). As you may have guessed, I spend a long time on this fight. So much so that I've memorised their names. In many ways this battle is silly and game-y: the two frequently push each other around, hit through each other without causing damage, and knock each other off trajectory while they both run at me. And I won't lie, there were several times that I shouted 'oh come on' at the game when things weren't going my way. But somehow this may also be my fav boss fight yet.

For my first few attempts I feel things out. Initially I aim for Smough first as he's a bigger slower target and he takes a lot more damage from a single hit. But I soon realise that it's safer to focus on the faster smaller threat. It's much easier to drag Smough around and keep an eye on him in the background while I work with Ornstein than it is the other way around (the slayer seems to love stabbing straight through his big pal to get me). Both bosses resemble tougher versions of regular enemies fought around this area, so it's not too hard to get used to their patterns, but still this fight is pretty relentless. They each have a very wide movepool and it's not always easy to tell which move they're about to pull off. I generally play it defensive, trying to pull Ornstein away and strike when there's a gap, forcing myself to not get greedy. I have varying degrees of success here, but as with most battles in this game it becomes second nature after a while.

The first time I defeat Ornstein I think I'm gonna be fine, Smough after all is slow and a big target. But the game has another twist for me, and Smough gains his late friend's electric powers. You wouldn't think this would change much, but then he insta-kills me with his lightning charge. In fact I kill Ornstein 4 times without managing to take down the big guy afterwards! And most of those times I had plenty of potions left! It may be my imagination, but Smough seems a little quicker in this second phase, and is definitely more deadly. I can't rely on my shield at all given the lightning hammer, and he's fond of doing the big divebomb move that creates electricity all over the arena. I just roll as far as I can when I see that one coming.

My main wish with this fight is for a weapon with longer reach, I can't tell you the number of times I was a little too far out with my sword. As it happens I found a Crystal Halberd somewhere in this area with pretty good stats, but my strength isn't high enough to wield it so I had to make do with the Longsword+10. Well, pretty much. On my fifth attempt at solo Smough, after he's down to about a quarter health I start firing crossbow bolts from far away (only one at a time, as they are very slow to load!). A bit of an anticlimactic end to the fight, but I'm happy to take it.

I think the game knows this is a difficult fight, because our reward is grander than normal. It's a giant princess! With a large set of... antiquated vocabulary. Gwynevere is Gwyn's daughter (idk if literal daughter or this is some godly 'our father' kind of thing) and gives us the Lordvessel and some lore. I don't trust her at first, games don't usually have me kneel to a god and have them be the good guy, but she does seem pretty straight up. Hmm. We can now warp between bonfires, hooray! For real, the doors slowly opening and the sunlight shining around Gwynevere's silhouette is a really cool visual, this feels like a major moment.

The firekeeper at Anor Londo gives me some new lore about Seath the Scaleless and his archives, and then it's time for an amusing interlude with Kingseeker Frampt. The tone of this game is all over the place in the best way lol. We open three gates (two of which I don't recognise >_>) and we now seemingly have free reign again of where to go. We've gotta kill 4 big lords to fill the vessel- the Witch of Izalith, Seath the Scaleless (I guess he's in the path from Anor Londo), the Four Kings of Londo (hey the dude in Ghosttown mentioned them!), and another one I forgot the name of. The world is my oyster! Though I will miss Anor Londo, it's nice to be back home in Firelink for a moment.

Edit: OH I forgot to mention Smough's little laugh! That's a cool little detail to add personality. I love the design of these guys.

Amazing chest ahead

andylt posted...

If I were to do another playthrough I'd just leave Lautrec locked up >_>

He'll break out on his own anyway, and all that'd change is you wouldn't get a Sunlight Medal from him.

Ornstein and Smough are widely considered one of the toughest challenges in the entire series. The second part of the fight changes significantly depending on who you kill first. I am going to brag that I made it through my first time against them, although I had run out of healing by the final phase and was one hit from dying so that was incredibly tense...

Now, I don't want to tell you what to do, but I feel like I have to mention that there are plenty of well-hidden side areas in the game that, while not important to get through, are certainly worth checking out, especially just to get the full Dark Souls experience. They might be really hard to find without a guide, but I'll just say at some point it's worth exploring Firelink Shrine, The Blighttown Swamp, and Anor Londo VERY thoroughly when you feel up to it. Should be much easier to travel around and dither now that you can teleport. If you want hints, just ask.

andylt posted...

It's a giant princess! With a large set of... antiquated vocabulary.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/4/5/AABtbFAADmTx.jpg

You're about halfway complete, excluding the dlc. Nicely done with O&S!

Good job!

I'm also curious about your thoughts on the second half of the game. Been reading and lurking.

Ugh Smough was such a pain in the ass for me. Not even Ornstein and Smough so much, just Smough specifically. On the bright side, having to do the boss run over and over and over made me super good at parrying from fighting those damn silver knights. Anyway, good job getting through it!

I second Grand Kirby's suggestion to explore Anor Londo very carefully.

I didn't think I was halfway, wow.

Murphiroth posted...

Amazing chest ahead

lmao
I guess this and GK's pic are the kind of messages players can leave online, maybe I am missing out. I've seen the 'try finger but hole' memes with Elden Ring, and calling everything a dog.

Kenri posted...

Ugh Smough was such a pain in the ass for me. Not even Ornstein and Smough so much, just Smough specifically. On the bright side, having to do the boss run over and over and over made me super good at parrying from fighting those damn silver knights. Anyway, good job getting through it!

Ha, I wound up using the firekeeper bonfire so I could just run straight to the boss without having to fight any enemies. It's a longer trek but less frustrating. I initially found Ornstein a much more annoying enemy and probably died to him more but you can learn his pattern and get hits on him easier, while it's always hard to get in close enough to hit Smough without risking getting whacked (especially in phase two).

Grand_Kirby posted...

Ornstein and Smough are widely considered one of the toughest challenges in the entire series. The second part of the fight changes significantly depending on who you kill first. I am going to brag that I made it through my first time against them, although I had run out of healing by the final phase and was one hit from dying so that was incredibly tense...

Jeez, I can't imagine doing those two on the first go. I'm happy I killed one boss on the first try, I have no need to prove I can do it again! And they were difficult but I didn't realise they're considered that hard, I'm sure the rest of the game will be a complete breeze for me now!!! >_>

I wonder what the fight is like if you kill Smough first. Does Ornstein pick up his hammer and dual wield while flying around the arena at lightspeed or something. Which way do most people do it?

And I won't click on any spoiler bars yet but I'll try to explore everywhere thoroughly, though it seems like I can't teleport to any bonfire unfortunately. I will lean dangerously close over all the cliff edges in Lordren!

I think he gets larger and has more aoe? But most people do it the way that you did.

You can't teleport to every bonfire, but you can to the important ones.

Killing Ornstein first is the easier way to go, yeah. I prefer to do the opposite, since Ornstein is still easier to fight even in phase 2, he just grows into a giant but his attacks I think are all pretty much the same. He does get a butt slam though. Regardless the main reason is because you can get Ornstein's gear if you save him for last, his weapon and armor are way cooler than Smough's.

Ornstein does look much cooler but the fancy armours are all too heavy for me to wear anyway!

First up today I am keen to get back to the garden, and give the area behind the sealed door another go. There's some ghostly knights and mages, trees, and a few big black dog things. It's pretty easy to get lost in these woods. But everything is killable so we make our way forward, and open a door (not mist!) into our next boss battle.

A wild Zacian appeared! OK, this fight has almost everything going for it. For one, The Great Grey Wolf Sif looks very cool, I didn't think they could get fur to look that neat in the 360 era. Two, between the arena being Artorias's grave (I assume), the moonlight and the music this battle has great atmosphere. You can tell Sif is an honourable creature, and this is a fair 1v1 fight. Unfortunately/fortunately, the battle itself is a bit easy. The only real problem is that sometimes I roll right into her attacks, usually the double slice. That's my undoing on the first try, but I play it safer the second time round and put her down without an issue... almost.

Now this game has pulled many a trick on me so far, but this has to be the cruelest one yet. When Sif is nearly dead, she starts limping and slows right down, barely managing to swipe. No other boss has done this, if anything they all get tougher as they get lower in health, but Dark Souls wants me to really feel this one. I finish it off but my god it feels awful. There's no sense of accomplishment here, I simply feel like I've just slaughtered an innocent dog (never mind that she had a giant sword and was coming for me) .We get a ring and an achievement, we can now 'traverse the Abyss' whatever that means.

This is the first time the game has made me feel bad for killing a boss, and I have to admit I've been starting to wonder what the deal is with some of them. After the early beastly demons, the bosses have been getting more 'human' as it were. I'm not sure why Ornstein and Smough attacked me, they seemed to be guarding the princess but she's on my side so that'd be a weird bit of miscommunication. Were they hollowed? And I don't know what the deal is with Sif, but if the game keeps going down this road... man.

On the way out of the garden I spot some non-hostile mushrooms, and leave them be. I may have made an enemy of the animal kingdom, but the fungi are my friends. For now. Then I meet a talking cat, who begs me not to try to cross the abyss and seek Artorias's grave. I, uh, lie, and agree with her, then join the covenant. I've been meaning to ask what the deal is with covenants, is it an online thing? Because I don't see what I actually get out of joining them other than the initial membership ring.

Time to go wandering. I head back to Anor Londo and scout out the area, manipulating the middle platform to discover some new items. In the cathedral there's a giant painting of a rickety bridge leading up a mountain, and examining it I see that the contraption does not move. Hm, I guess the trigger for this is elsewhere because I see nothing else to do here. I also find the Darkmoon Tomb and acquire the ring of the firstborn. Ah! I had noticed that there was a missing statue in the O+S boss fight room- presumably the king in the centre, the princess on one side, and a space on the other. I read the description of the ring and unless this is some very flavourful lore then this mysterious firstborn must come into things at some point. But I don't see anything I can do here. For a minute I think I'm smart- I notice the bonfire, go back and raise the middle platform to its peak and warp back down there hoping a doorway would reveal itself, but no such luck. I'm out of ideas here, so back to the drawing board.

Back at Firelink, Frampt is asleep. I finally make my way through the graveyard here, and find the entrance to the Catacombs. Some exploding skulls or something come up on me so I run right out of there, I know I'll need divine weapons here (I have my crossbow divine now but that won't be enough) and I'm sure this is a crucial plot place with how often it's been mentioned, so I'll definitely be coming back. I get the master key from my friend Domhnall, and after bouncing around a bit I get some chests, and pretend to be an egg in the crow's nest. It's back to the asylum!

Ah, don't you love returning to the tutorial area later on in a video game? I sure do. I half expect the Asylum Demon to be back here as a superboss, but thankfully its room is still emp- oh, the floor collapsed. Oh, here's a new boss. Oh, it killed me. Oops! I'm not sure if I'll stick around to fight the Stray Demon right now, it has some fire (?) attacks that eat right through my shield and it feels like I should be a bit stronger. IDK. I work through the rest of the asylum while I'm here, beat up the first friend I ever made in this game ( :( I am a monster today), and use a key from Firelink to get a rusted iron ring. That's all for today, I'll have a think on whether I should stick around to try the Stray Demon some more or not.

andylt posted...

This is the first time the game has made me feel bad for killing a boss, and I have to admit I've been starting to wonder what the deal is with some of them. After the early beastly demons, the bosses have been getting more 'human' as it were. I'm not sure why Ornstein and Smough attacked me, they seemed to be guarding the princess but she's on my side so that'd be a weird bit of miscommunication. Were they hollowed? And I don't know what the deal is with Sif, but if the game keeps going down this road... man.

Definitely read all the flavor text of the items and equipment you find. You'll get a lot of backstory that way... and you'll probably feel bad killing more bosses...

andylt posted...

I've been meaning to ask what the deal is with covenants, is it an online thing? Because I don't see what I actually get out of joining them other than the initial membership ring.

Yeah, most of the covenants affect how you play online. While technically you can level them up and gain the bonuses from them offline, most of them are harder to do so that way.

For the Forest covenant if you join in it you can invade and hunt down people who go through the forest area. It's a pretty busy PvP zone because of that.

andylt posted...

work through the rest of the asylum while I'm here, beat up the first friend I ever made in this game ( :( I am a monster today), and use a key from Firelink to get a rusted iron ring.

Did you find the Doll item?

I do try to read the flavour text, but I often forget! I'll have a good reading session the next time I play. And yeah I did get the strange doll but forgot to look at it in the menu lol.

andylt posted...

a rusted iron ring

The next time you're in blighttown you should try this out

Sif is the only boss in Dark Souls that actually has two different opening cutscenes depending on when you get to it in the game (requires the DLC though). The alternate cutscene is... much more sad, especially given the lore of what you do to get it.

I have to shut my mind off any time I fight Sif, simultaneously making sure I slay her before I can see her limping. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to get through it, such a good loyal doggo ;_;

She and Artorias are probably my favorite characters in all Fromsoft games.

andylt posted...

This is the first time the game has made me feel bad for killing a boss

lol this guy doesn't know about Quelaag

I do not have the DLC, sadly. And that spoiler bar is mighty tempting, Kenri!

As promised, I kick things off by reading the description of every item in my possession. I don't learn too much tbh, but the sunlight medal references this former god of war, Gwyn's elusive firstborn. Seath the Scaleless (that's one of the ones I have to kill!) created the Moonlight Butterfly, and Quelaag was once daughter of the witch Izalith (that's another!). The description of the peculiar doll is very odd, and mentions its owner being an abomination who was pulled into a painted world. There was that painting in Anor Londo, maybe I can pull the trigger on that now? IDK it seems like a stretch, but that's something for me to remember when I'm next back there.

I leave the Stray Demon for now, and head to Darkroot Basin. Turns out I needn't have feared the 8-headed hydra before, because it's not nearly as imposing as it looks. The only threat here is falling out of the arena, where we immediately... drown? The animation is as if I'm falling off a cliff. Maybe water works differently in Lordren! We don't get much of a reward for beating this thing, though there is a backdoor into Sif's area so I guess we could've avoided paying for that seal to be broken.

I take the stairs up to Undead Burg, head to the Capra Demon's area and then retrace my previous steps for a while looking for new stuff. We kill the giant rat in the Depths (I am numb to the suffering I inflict on others now), and open up that bonfire. Then it's off to Blighttown, where the framerate drops hit me much harder this time as I pick up the items I'd left behind previously. Down on the swamp floor I try out my shiny new... old rusted iron ring, and glide through the poison swamp. Our Knight of Catarina friend is down here looking for an antitode, and we of course provide him with all the moss he requires. You can count on me, nameless Knight! There's some weapons and armour and the like around here, then it's off to Quelaag's domain.

...uh, was this here earlier? I definitely looked around that pit in the floor looking for a path to it, I haven't got a clue how I could've missed this massive staircase out in the open. So much for secret side areas, I can't even find paths right in front of my face >_> We enter Demon Ruins, the token lava level of this game. I know better than to bother the poor parasite ridden humans, so we work our way to the nearby mist gate. And the mist stays where it is, so it must be boss time.

Heading round the corner, we see a giant creature just chillin'. I don't initiate combat, but I correctly figure looting the nearby corpse will enrage the beast. Time for our boss, who must be named something like 'Lava Golem' or 'Infernal Demon' or 'Surtr the Tormented' or... sigh. Ceaseless Discharge. Come on, now. I doubt this was some messed up translation, they intentionally made this thing sound like that. Why, I have no clue, but it sets a low bar for this boss fight.

And as it happens, this fight is not very fun. In theory I like that the arena is so wide and you can freely move around it, but Ceas- the boss's attacks are ridiculous. It looooves to send this massive wave of fire my way that seems nigh undodgable, and when it's not doing that there's a whack on the ground that I swear hits me when I'm far from the point of impact. The worst part of this boss is trying to run back to the open area every time, half the time I don't make it because there's no room to dodge the fire attack on the way up, and the other half I've already drained a few potions and get one-shot by one of its wide radius attacks. I try wearing the armour I looted from the corpse to see if that distracts the beast, but no good. It does give me good flame resistance though.

I'm not proud of my tactics here, but in the end I cheese this boss. When I manage to get back into the wide open area, I find the perfect range just past where the fire attack spans out from, and do a double roll to the side when I hear the roar that indicates it's coming. Then I do the same thing 50 times until the deed is done. Thankfully there's no different attack, though I do have to reposition myself a couple times as the boss moves around the arena. It's an anticlimactic end to a fight that I probably shouldn't have found this frustrating, after all I could probably have come here a long time ago, but whatever, it's done.

I read the description of the armour- it belonged to a Quelana, who was the daughter of chaos and mother of pyromancy. From this I figure that she was probs the daughter of Quelaag (who has been established as a chaos demon), and judging by CD's behaviour I guess the boss was a creation of her and her pyromancy. Well whatever the case, the lava falls here and now we can explore the Demon Ruins properly. I'm fascinated by the aesthetic of this area, the roots above and lava below is such a bizarre contrast. Maybe it's a Tree of Life kinda deal.

Fittingly, the enemies here are mostly demonic. I reach a bonfire and come across another mist door, with paths spiralling out all over the place. First I go off down a grey corridor that leads to another contraption I can't move, then I go through the mist and am immediately one shot by the Demon Firesage. In my defence, I did not expect another boss this soon! How many pallet swaps of the Asylum Demon are there?!

It's later than I thought so I'm leaving it here today, I imagine the path I'm on will lead to Izalith so maybe I should go back and continue retracing my steps- I still need to check that painting again, and maybe try Drake Valley for real. There's also New Londo Ruins, as those 4 kings have been mentioned, but I don't think any of those lordvessel gates were down there. I will have a think, at least I downed another boss today.

I would strongly recommend the DLC if you're still looking for more content later on. It has three of best boss fights in the game. Overall, From Software DLC is top notch.

You somehow cheese Ceaseless Discharge in the way you're not meant to cheese him!

The dlc is the best part of every from soft game, hands down

Yeah, there's a boss in the DLC that's REALLY good, even if it's hard as heck.

I really like the armor Ceaseless Discharge guards. It's really good if you're going for a lightweight set.

Because it's really hard to find without hints I'll just go right out and mention there's a secret area in the belltower that Quelaag guards. It's not necessary to visit, but is one of the most interesting areas in the game imo so it's worth checking out at some point when you want.

Kenri posted...

I almost said "it gets better after Gaping Dragon" but uh.

There's definitely at least one that's much worse still to come.

andylt posted...

sigh. Ceaseless Discharge.

On the bright side, it's all uphill from here on boss names!

I don't know what I expected when you said a worse boss name was coming, but it wasn't that.

We get a Very Large Ember (how much bigger will they get by endgame!), and one of those wormy things breaks my weapon but uh I'm not sure what that means as nothing seems out of the ordinary in the equipment list. Maybe it lowered the durability a bit. I'm becoming very fond of the Poison Mist pyromancy spell, it's great on stationary enemies and its effects don't seem to run out.

Back to Demon Firesage, where my fancy new fire resistant gear doesn't seem to do that much good. It doesn't take me too long to beat this thing, but I can't say the victory feels earned. I never learn how to fully avoid the big booming attacks, I can block most of the damage with my shield but I feel like there's a better way. In the end I get lucky, staying close to its legs means it very frequently does those big jump hover stomp moves, giving me plenty of time to get some hits in and roll away to avoid damage entirely. I use a couple of potions to heal the unblockable damage from the wide-spanning red mist aftershocks but it's not an eventful fight. This is not a very memorable or unique battle, I think they should have added some more stuff to this or maybe taken it out entirely.

...Especially because not 5 minutes later we have another boss fight! Down the winding roots and staircases I think we must be heading for Izalith, but suddenly we're back in the fire with a Centipede Demon. This lava-filled arena seems strangely familiar to me, I may have seen a vid of someone fighting this years ago for some reason. If so, I don't remember how they did it. This boss is definitely unique, if only for the arena, but I'm not really in the mood for another boss when this one comes up so I only try this a handful of times before giving up. It seems annoying with its constant arm reaches that pull away too fast to be hit, and swallowing me whole. I wish there was more of a platform to move around on, but I suppose that's the point. I'll come back to this one next time when I'm more geared up for a fight.

Sorry for all this warping around lately, it must make for frustrating reading! But I want to go exploring, so I leave the lava pits and look at my checklist of things to do. In Anor Londo we go back to the big hall with all the Ezio cosplayers and suddenly it's Mario 64 time in the Painted World of Ariamis!

We enter the painting (thanks a lot to GK for getting me to read the doll description) and land in a snowy castle area with crows, harpies, bizarre blob amalgamations, a decrepit dragon, and the most annoying basic enemies yet in the form of spinning wheels. Fuck those things in their tight corridors with their endless stamina-eating bullshit spins. But I digress.

I love stuff like this in games, when you're suddenly dropped into a level where things are very out of the ordinary and it's up to you to figure out what's going on. We're stuck here of course, and it takes me some time to work my way around the area. The level design is good, very tight and deceptively complex, but it's the atmosphere that draws me to this place. The winding staircase to nowhere in the crumbling coliseum-like building, the crow calls and eerie noises here and there, the lighting blurring the distance, the statue in the courtyard surrounded by the strange unexplained blob creatures, it's all good. I haven't given enough praise to this game's sound design, it is really strong with all the unique little creaks and background noises as you travel through any area.

We pick up some interesting items- some new spells, a dried finger (?), an egg vermifuge (??), a bunch of online stuff, some gear, and a Dark Ember. Reading the descriptions we learn of Velka, the goddess of sin, and her Pardoners (one item mentions plural pardoners, another mentions a single capitalised Pardoner who was a skilled swordsman. Maybe they're like Yoshis/Toads in that way). There's also some lore on the Painting Guardians (it appears nobody knows why they are guarding these paintings anymore), but the most interesting description lies with the Dark Ember. This thing was hidden by the church as it can upgrade weapons to occult status, allowing people to hunt the gods themselves. Oh hell yeah, that seems like it will come in handy!

In what is sadly becoming a trend lately, I cheese the dragon fight. I simply hide behind one of the walls, run in the direction its poison breath isn't targeting, and get a swipe or two on its claws before rushing back. Rinse and repeat a few times, job done. Amusingly the dragon's lower body remains where it is until I bash it a lot, then it stands up to let me pass underneath lol. I run past the shield knight through the mist to face this area's boss, expecting to be wiped by the abomination who owned the doll.

Instead what I find is a ghostly woman in white with a scythe, tail, and a posh accent. She begs me to return home and not fight her. I of course accept, partly out of cowardice but mainly because I'm thrilled the game has let me choose mercy for once. Maybe I should have fought her because I would really like to know more of the lore behind this strange woman (Is she related to Gwyn? What makes her an abomination? Why does she claim this world is peaceful and kind when it is obviously not? What's the deal with her doll? Does she not want to escape?), but I don't want the info enough to kill a non-hostile NPC.

What a curious diversion that was, I'm left with more questions than anything else. But it was a fun time, and I am now in possession of an ember that will help me kill gods. Watch out, inevitable final boss god!

Painted World of Ariamis is my favorite area in the game I think. Such great atmosphere. Glad you were able to find it!

Painted World is fantastic. Despite the franchise's overall reputation there's a surprising amount of locales that just seem relaxing and the path up the mountain is one of my favorite examples.

This is also the spot to go if you find yourself needing some extra Souls.

Ariamis is definitely one of the best parts of Dark Souls. Glad you enjoyed it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/0/9/AABtbFAADnCF.jpg

lmao yes, what were you thinking lady! I don't know whether to be impressed or annoyed that they just glued a wheel onto a skeleton and called it an enemy >_>

The underground parts of Ariamis are definitely the worst largely because of those wheels. You can get stuck on the wrong end of one once and your stamina is gone in a second! Also there's some glowing fake walls that dissipate when you hit them down there, and behind one of them there's like three skeleton wheels immediately ready to pounce on you.

Deathwheels aside, yeah it's a great level. I hope there's some more intricately designed self-contained areas with intriguing lore, I guess that kind of stuff will be behind the spoiler bars I've been resisting for a while. I appreciate being nudged in its general direction!

BetrayedTangy posted...

This is also the spot to go if you find yourself needing some extra Souls.

yes I noticed I was getting a lot there! Tons of soul items on corpses too (I'm building quite the stash of them, should probably use them more >_>)

There are a lot of fake walls that disappear when you hit them fyi

Grand_Kirby posted...

There are a lot of fake walls that disappear when you hit them fyi

Including an entire area that's hidden behind multiple fake walls.

You 99% won't find it without guidance so if you want some guidance just let us know. It's not really a great area imo but if you're enjoying the game it's worth checking out

Great, now I am whacking every wall I see that looks remotely funny and probably crushing my sword's durability in the process >_> I'm sure I will need help finding some of this optional stuff, but I'm not gonna ask for it until I run out of things to do and atm the world is wide open to me. (I assume none of the areas get locked off after a certain point so I'm free to take my time?)

I give the Dark Ember to my regular smith, who seems pretty entranced with it. Hopefully it won't corrupt him or something like that. He won't take my Very Large Ember though, and neither will the giant. An unfortunate note here, when I look at the list of potential upgrades for my sword from the giant I get spoiled for some future bosses. Well I assume I do, there's souls required from Artorias, Gwyn, Manus and Gwyndolin. That's a shame, they should've hid their names until I had the items!

I give the Stray Demon another go and it goes down identically to the Firesage. Literally, I don't think there's a single meaningful difference to these fights, they seem like pure pallet swaps. I also head back to the Valley of Drakes and slowly work my way through the blue dragons to reach... a big door that I can't interact with. Welp, something else to remember later. I at least get a ring that I'll probably never use, and discover a connection between the valley and Darkroot Basin.

As my trip to the Asylum went well today I decide to give the Centipede Demon another go. It takes a few tries and once again I feel like I get lucky hacking at its legs while it repeats the same few moves for most of the fight, but I learn a few of its patterns and it goes down. What an unusual arena, why make the room so big if we can't use 90% of it! Thankfully Centipede was on land most of the time, I've no idea what I would've done if he stayed in the lava. Our reward is a ring that lets us cross the lava, and some lore about the pitiful creature we killed. Another creation of the witches, born with lava sores and then turned into a centipede after dropping its ring or something. The head witch here has a lot to answer for!

We run into Solaire, who is uncharacteristically distraught. I've never seen him look down before, this is very distressing to witness. I can't remember if he's previously told us what he's searching for, but he can't find it. There's nothing I can do for him here, I hope I haven't missed out on some key sidequest step to help him out.

We finally reach Lost Izalith! There's some massive creatures standing around in the lava who leave me alone if I don't get too close, and for the first time whacking on a wall proves fruitful here as I discover a bonfire. I love the look of this place, mixing tree roots with lava and then adding some stone ziggurat kinda things is so inventive. And far above us there's solid earth with lava cracking through, it's like we're in the mantle of this world.

There's a ton of those fire-breathing stone statues here, they're as easy to beat as ever but I take my time so as to not get overwhelmed. We also meet a neat little octopus that makes a funny noise with its limbs, I like this thing (Editor's note: he wouldn't like it for long). We come across a fog gate that I initially assume will be the boss, but looking around there's a big bridge with a mean looking demon on it the other way so I'm not sure, maybe it's a bonfire. Before I can decide which way to go some land cracks below me, huh those octopuses look much more intimidating from above.

Our trusty Knight of Catarina has made his way here, and wants to repay me for all I've done. What a kind soul! I briefly get terrified that I've inadvertently sent this man to his doom when he goes launching off of the platform so I leap in after him and try to help. But I needn't have worried, he one shots the octopuses and I'm barely a help at all. Still he thanks me for saving him and goes to sleep in the poison water. I check on the B8 discord here just to make sure he's not gonna die if I leave him, and am reassured that he'll be fine. I guess he still has some of those moss clumps left.

On my way out I get on the bad side of one of the octopuses and die, but much worse than that my weapons and armour are thoroughly wrecked. It's always the enemies that look the nicest that have secret nasty sides! It's a good job I found that secret bonfire. I head back and whack some statues then go repair my gear, and leave it there for the day. Hopefully next time we can meet this witch and see what she has to say for herself.

andylt posted...

Our reward is a ring that lets us cross the lava, and some lore about the pitiful creature we killed. Another creation of the witches, born with lava sores and then turned into a centipede after dropping its ring or something.

Reread the description. It's not about the Centipede Demon, it's about Ceaseless Discharge. One of my favorite moments in this game is the horror I felt when I realized exactly why Ceaseless Discharge doesn't attack you until you take the armor neaby... A lot of people feel bad about killing Sif, but that made me feel like a monster as well.

Rolling also works if you're concerned with penny pinching

Yeah I just roll into illusory walls to dispel them, no need to waste weapon durability.

Grand_Kirby posted...

Reread the description. It's not about the Centipede Demon, it's about Ceaseless Discharge. One of my favorite moments in this game is the horror I felt when I realized exactly why Ceaseless Discharge doesn't attack you until you take the armor neaby... A lot of people feel bad about killing Sif, but that made me feel like a monster as well.

IIRC if you actually use a free cam mod, you can see where Discharge falls and it's literally just the Centipede Demon room. Just another cool example of the attention to detail in these games.

OK I've given in and read all the spoiler bars, and I'm trying to piece the lore together from the bits I have.

The Witch of Izalith, who must be deeply connected to 'chaos', had 3 kids- Quelaag, Quelana, and CD. I assume CD is more of a creation/experiment than a biological child, based on his appearance and name (that has me wondering: are boss names the names these creatures give themselves, famous titles in Lordren, or are they what my character thinks to call them, because who would choose Ceaseless Discharge as a name!). CD was born with painful lava sores all over his body, and his sisters made the ring to ease his pain. He dropped the ring, and the Centipede Demon formed from where it landed. Presumably they didn't make him another one and he's been suffering ever since, maybe they were gone by then (no idea how the first one was supposed to fit on him either!).

Quelana was the 'mother of pyromancy'. At some point she died, and CD carefully arranged her body and watched over her until I came and looted her corpse (my bad!!). Quelaag became a chaos demon, perhaps out of grief over her sister's death? There's a lot still unexplained here- how did Quelana die, how did Quelaag turn, what the heck has the Witch of Izalith been doing doing all this time and why did she create CD, and what even is 'chaos'? There's similarities between the witch family and the royals Gwyn, Gwynevere, and Gwyn's firstborn. I guess neglectful parents/hidden children may be a theme of this game!

Also thanks for that rolling advice, that will definitely make scouring for fake walls less painful. And now I have some targets on where to look for secret areas, though I have already been through those particular ones lol.

I decide to head across the bridge before trying the fog gate, and see a door I recognise from the Demon Ruins. I plan to open it then run straight back to Izalith, when Solaire shows up. Hi, Solaire! Wait, what are you doing with that spear? Solaire? No! Noooo!!!

Solaire appears to have lost his mind, attacking me and ranting about having finally found what he was looking for- his own personal sun. I'm not about to attack my friend, so I run away and examine the item that was next to him. A Sunlight Maggot. Aha! I assume he's being controlled by some insect, but as I consider trying to shoot the maggot off his head and return him to his senses, I see it's just a helmet. Hmm. I try wearing it myself and approaching him, but it's no good. I can't think of anything else to do here, so I run away and leave Solaire alone. What happened? Did I fail his sidequest? Is this just how it ends? I did not expect this to happen to the funny iconic meme man of the series :( I can't say I fully understand what went on here, but it feels like a failure on my part. Hopefully I'll discover some item later on that will help me cure him, but for now he'll have to wait it out. Dang, Solaire.

It's a sad walk back to Izalith, and I decide to distract myself with an inevitable boss fight. A slide, wee! The Bed of Chaos is our next boss, an impressive looking tree. I am instantly killed a few times by its wooden hands, then make my way behind one of them and start hacking away. I soon notice the health bar isn't going down at all. I try shooting every part of its body with arrows, nothing. After a few more deaths I discover a red core of sorts over on the side, and a fiery arm sprouts up. When I come back down the slide that arm is still there, which should really have rang some alarm bells for me. Now holes start opening up in the ground preventing me going straight to the other side, which I frequently end up falling/being knocked into. It takes me a long time to get to the second core, and now a full fiery demon is blossoming out of the bark. I'm unsure what to do now, so simply charge at its front, only to have the whole ground fall away there. The next time down, I notice a root growing up from the hole into the centre path, so now I have my target. Simple, right?

Hoo boy. Hoooooo boy. This one simple roll jump takes me dozens of attempts. The process is as follows: I spend a minute or two running back to the arena. I spend 5-10 seconds trying to shield block Chaos's hands and move towards the hole. I get knocked over the edge or 2HKO'd by the hands. And repeat.

I suppose I should talk about my feelings on this fight. In theory, I love it. I like a changing up of the formula. I like being kept on my toes, I like having to figure things out myself, I even like a boss fight being a platforming challenge for once rather than a battle against a health bar. The problem is this is basically a Zelda boss, and I'm playing Dark Souls. My character moves like he's in Dark Souls. Link would probably have a blast with this boss, jumping around, hookshoting, rolling away from reasonably sized hitboxes and dodging reasonably timed attacks. The Chosen Undead has none of these luxuries. Chaos's attacks are impossibly quick and the fight is incredibly unforgiving, and for the first time I really feel the movement being as slow and clunky as I thought it might be before I first played this game. It's a real shame.

Visually, the boss is stunning. A literal root of all evil buried in the depths of the earth, with long finger branches and a fiery spirit bursting from within. And the reveal that there's a tiny defenceless soul cocooned in the centre piloting the fiery tree mech, it's beautiful. But it feels horrible to play, at least for me. This game is simply not suited for this kind of boss. And sadly, I once again wind up cheesing this one. When I think I've figured out the right angle and timing for rolling onto the root, I get whacked by one of its hands directly onto the root. I can't believe my luck! Chaos goes to sleep, and good riddance as far as I'm concerned. All 4 of the bosses of this section weren't great, tbh.

Lorewise, Chaos was created by the witch, sort of by mistake, and is the mother to all demons. Now where is this witch?! I've had to slaughter her tormented children and failed experiments, she does not get to walk away free from accountability! I won't feel conflicted whenever we finally do fight, that's for sure.

I take a break at Firelink and tell my pyromancer friend about some spell I think (honestly I don't remember what he's referring to when he brings this up) and he runs off to find 'her'. Oh god, did I doom another one? Don't take the pyromancer from me game, he's my favourite NPC! You have to let at least one of them get through the game unscathed!

It's past time for me to deal with Lautrec, so I head to Anor Lando and return the fire keeper's soul. She speaks (!), thanking me for linking the fire and trying to break the curse, then asks me not to speak to her again. OK! The fire here now fills up 20 flasks, woo, that makes the whole ordeal worth it!

I don't want to end here as I feel I've been complaining too much today, so I head back to Anor Lando and through the previously blocked door to the Duke's Archives. Either the enemies here have high defences or my weapon isn't very suitable. I like the design of this place, a library in the sky with devious experiments going on. After clearing out the enemies in the main hall I take a pause out on the balcony and admire the view of the sun above the clouds. At times like this I wish the 360 had a photo button, this is pretty stunning.

Further up things get more crystallised, and before you know it we're into a battle with Seath the Scaleless. Already?! Seath dispatches of me without me landing a scratch, and I begin to sigh and wonder what kind of Chaos level torment we're in for here. But then I wake up in a prison cell! Oh hell yeah! This is a timeless video game trope I always like, but I didn't expect it in this game. If anything I'm a bit disappointed they didn't take away all our gear lol. I'm excited for this next segment, but I'll leave it here for tonight.

Shout-out to my Dark Souls playthrough topic where I said Bed of Chaos was the worst boss in the game and was corrected that it's the worst boss in the series. Agreed that it's at least neat conceptually though.

Regarding Solaire: pretty sure you're fucked. IIRC the requirements to save him are insanely obscure.

Solaire - yeah he's a goner. The requirements for saving him are pretty hidden.

Laurentius (Pyromancer) - Go check the swamp in Blighttown

Bed of Chaos would honestly be tolerable to me if there was a bonfire right outside the boss room. It's the combination of the long trek through Izalith + immediately getting knocked down a pit by tree branches that makes it so bad.

Bed of Chaos is notoriously bad, Souls games tend to have one or two gimmick bosses and IMO BoC is by far the worst.

A closer bonfire would definitely help though!

Just here to confirm that Bed of Chaos is indeed the worst boss of the franchise. Don't feel bad about not enjoying that particular experience. Most people just use a bow to cheese him, that's always my approach and it's the only point in the game where I use a projectile attack.

The good news is there's nothing worse than him, Bed of Chaos is a horridly cheap stain on a game that's otherwise completely fair.

I some how got super lucky in my first play through, where I got knocked onto the middle branch, and only had to die a half dozen times or so.
Every time since then has been agony. But I love the aesthetics of the area enough so Izalith still has a soft spot in my heart here.
It's DS3 Izalith that bores me to death.

So with Solaire, yeah there's nothing you can do at this point, but he does have an alternate route. So after Quelaag's boss arena you can find an NPC hidden behind a wall. If you give them 30 Humanity before reaching Lost Izalith, then a shortcut opens where you can kill the Sunlight Maggot. However this also leaves Solaire in a state of depression. This honestly what I love about the side quests in Souls games. They often tackle very heavy themes that get you thinking. Which do a great job at giving you more incentive than just the rewards.

As far as Bed of Chaos goes, yeah worst boss in the franchise. I love the lore though BoC is actually what the Witch of Izalith turned into when she unleashed the Chaos Flame. So she essentially became the mother of all the demons in Lost Izalith. I believe some of her daughters merged with her as well.

Yeah Bed of Chaos is the worst fight in the franchise. That entire area of the game is rushed and it shows. The developers even apologized for it. And yet still, even after the suffering, I kind of have fondness for it in hindsight...

As far as Solaire goes... yeah, he's fully gone. There is a way to save him from his fate, but it takes a lot of work, and it's too late now. You'll pretty much never figure it out on your first playthrough though, so don't feel too bad.

You also missed the opportunity to meet a certain character that sheds a lot of light on the Bed of Chaos and the witches of Izalith. You'll have to replay the game to get another chance, but it's pretty hard to find that person anyway so I'll reveal in a spoiler a basic version of the story: the Bed of Chaos IS the Witch of Izalith and her daughters after they fucked up and tried to recreate the First Flame themselves. So at least you got the revenge you were looking for...?