Board 8 > Andy plays the Dark Souls of video games

(+) Yeah! (+)

The comments from Miyazaki (director of the series) about Lost Izalith are kind of hilarious.

https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/09/11/creating-worlds-hidetaka-miyazaki-s-favorite-zones.aspx

Since I had the opportunity, I had to ask what Miyazakis least favorite zone from the franchise is as well. The answer should come as no surprise to fans of the series its the lava/dinosaur nightmare known as Lost Izalith in Dark Souls. Miyazaki comments Dont want to elaborate on this very much. There was a different person assigned to this area, and although I was involved, I dont want to pose very many negative comments for his sake. It can be a learning experience for all of us.

I feel bad for whoever designed Izalith getting slammed there, I don't think it's a bad area outside of the boss! Could've done with more enemy variety, I suppose.

Murphiroth posted...

Bed of Chaos is notoriously bad, Souls games tend to have one or two gimmick bosses and IMO BoC is by far the worst.

I'm glad everyone else had trouble with Chaos too, and I'm happy the poor response to that particular fight didn't turn them off of trying new things for bosses. I'm curious how the later games' gimmick bosses work but maybe I'll end up playing them so I won't ask for details.

BetrayedTangy posted...

So with Solaire, yeah there's nothing you can do at this point, but he does have an alternate route. So after Quelaag's boss arena you can find an NPC hidden behind a wall. If you give them 30 Humanity before reaching Lost Izalith, then a shortcut opens where you can kill the Sunlight Maggot.

Wow that is obscure. Poor Solaire :( I won't go and kill him (unless he has some crucial item). It is cool that the sidequests aren't typical video gamey stuff, but I hope they aren't all just 'and then they died/were miserable forever'.

Grand_Kirby posted...

You also missed the opportunity to meet a certain character that sheds a lot of light on the Bed of Chaos and the witches of Izalith.

Oh no, I didn't realise stuff like that was time-locked! Is that the same NPC Tangy mentioned that you tried to point me to earlier in the tower by Quelaag? Thanks to both about the witch+chaos lore, I guess that explains why her other children were left to suffer. Is there a vague idea of the timespan of the lore here, like are we talking years or centuries or what >_>

andylt posted...

It is cool that the sidequests aren't typical video gamey stuff, but I hope they aren't all just 'and then they died/were miserable forever'.

>_>

andylt posted...

Is that the same NPC Tangy mentioned that you tried to point me to earlier in the tower by Quelaag?

No, you can still meet them.

andylt posted...

Thanks to both about the witch+chaos lore, I guess that explains why her other children were left to suffer. Is there a vague idea of the timespan of the lore here, like are we talking years or centuries or what >_>

I don't remember what the exact time span is, but it's mentioned that the Bed of Chaos has been suffering for "a thousand years" so...

Also

andylt posted... I won't feel conflicted whenever we finally do fight, that's for sure.

lol

Aecioo posted...

>_>

He did say "all"

Not much today. The Archives are a really interesting area: part library, part jail, part... something else. Presumably experiments are occurring somewhere that involve crystallisation, but I haven't yet found their source. There's books thrown around, wizards and moving staircases and switches galore, this place is a classic fantasy location. There's a big clockwork mechanism in the centre of the jail room, and a large bell triggers some crystallised snakes to move for some reason. Dealing with escaped convicts maybe? Over by the bell switch I hear the faint sounds of a woman crying, but I daren't rush through the snakes to find her (ringing the bell myself only gets some of them to move away).

The lizards are in charge here, I wonder if there's a connection between this place and Sen's Fortress. Past another grand room we exit the archives and enter the Crystal Caves, which look and sound rather beautiful. This whole segment is putting the fire level to shame! There's crystal golems and moonlight butterflies here. It seems Seath must have spent some time in Darkroot as well as Sen's Fortress, his fingerprints are everywhere... The caves introduce invisible paths (very nice of the game to give me a bunch of prism stones right before this), and that's about as far as I get today.

Before entering the caves I did meet my friend's daughter Sieglinde, who was trapped in a crystal golem. Based on all your responses to my last post, I can only assume she will reunite with her father and they shall live happily ever after :)

andylt posted...

There's a big clockwork mechanism in the centre of the jail room, and a large bell triggers some crystallised snakes to move for some reason. Dealing with escaped convicts maybe? Over by the bell switch I hear the faint sounds of a woman crying, but I daren't rush through the snakes to find her (ringing the bell myself only gets some of them to move away).

I don't know how well you explored the level, but there's a key item that explains what's going on here and... it's pretty interesting.

We face a new enemy in the cave, walking oysters. Coolest thing about these is instead of pearls they have a collection of skulls inside them. Then Seath shows up and we unexpectedly have to fight him here! I suppose he came over to stop us from breaking his regenerative crystal. But I soon realise the game, and then start hacking away at- oh there's a status bar filling up. Oh, I'm cursed now, whatever that means. Oh, I'm dead now. Oh, I'm still cursed. Oh, dear.

This is my first time being cursed, and I vaguely recall someone mentioning it being a pain with the frogs back in the Depths. The game tells me to use a certain item to heal or visit the healer in New Londo (the samurai guy? He's the only friendly NPC I remember over there, but I don't recall him specifically being a healer). I don't have whatever item is needed on me, and I don't fancy trying the boss again with half health, so I take the risk and warp out of the archives to look for a cure.

Before descending into Ghosttown I decide to try the friendly totally-not-hollow lady in the sewer by Undead Burg, she usually has important items we need for the story on her (moss, transient curse etc). And yep, wouldn't you know it she does have what we need! I grab an extra one just in case, and then gear up with the most anti-curse stuff I have. I get my curse resistance up to around 219 thanks to the Cursebite Ring and Dingy Armour I'm wearing. Our defences are lower now but that's the trade-off we have to take, so it's back to Seath! Thankfully we can warp straight back to the Archives.

OK, detour over, it's time to fight this dragon for real. The curse resistance works like a charm, I don't have to worry about that at all here. Seath takes me quite some time to defeat, but despite all the deaths it kinda feels good to be back into a solid boss rhythm after a few disappointing battles. For a while I'm stumbling pretty blindly being caught off guard by some of his attacks, I have a hard time figuring out what move Seath is going to use when. But with each attempt I learn a bit more and I eventually see/hear his tells. I keep the camera untargeted but tilted up so I can see his upper body and what his arms are doing, and he makes a distinctive sound when gearing up for the massive crystal attack that's a pain in the ass. No matter how safe I know I am, my heart starts racing whenever I have to sprint away from him before those crystals light me up.

The most frustrating part of this fight is the two minute run from the bonfire to the arena, but it does give me time to think. I'm not saying I get this fight nailed down, I still have a rough time telling when he's gonna breathe crystals directly on me and when he's not, but after one attempt where I die a tiny bit from the end, I get it done. I actually run out of potions on this final try, and in a risky move I run across the arena to buy myself time to open the menu and equip humanity to give me a HP boost >_> It works though! Another lord down. My armour is at risk but who cares, I doubt I'll be using it again any time soon. Why Seath didn't take me back to the prison after each death I do not know.

Grand_Kirby posted...

I don't know how well you explored the level, but there's a key item that explains what's going on here and... it's pretty interesting.

I read all the keys I've gotten, and learn some basic lore about the place, but what goes on in the basement remains a juicy secret. I then head back to the jail to use the last key, and realise that the crying woman I heard earlier was one of the snake creatures. Poor thing, I leave her be of course. There's a corpse with a fire keeper soul inside the cell. So Seath was capturing maidens for experiments and the 'mistakes' turn into those snake things, but what was the purpose of the experiment? I feel like there's important info I still don't have, but I think I've scoured this place pretty thoroughly. Should I keep looking around before bidding farewell to the archives?

Either way, I've had a great time with this level, solid stuff throughout.

andylt posted...

I actually run out of potions on this final try, and in a risky move I run across the arena to buy myself time to open the menu and equip humanity to give me a HP boost >_> It works though! Another lord down.

Congrats on beating Seath! Clutch wins like that are so rewarding! Any thoughts on where you're headed next?

As for the lore I think the main thing Seath is looking for is immortality that's not reliant on a very breakable crystal, but I'm admittedly not as knowledgeable on the archives as I am the rest of the game. Although there are a couple of cool things you might've missed. There's a side quest here, but I think it's missable if you didn't rescue him from Sen's Fortress first. He's basically a wizard with a comically large hat that goes insane. I think there's also a very hard to find crossbow that gives some lore on the potential architect of the Archives as well as Sen's, but I'm not 100% on that one.

I don't exactly hate the Seath boss fight, but I find it extremely irritating how he seems practically hard-coded to always be facing you. Try circle-strafing around him and he'll just spin in place like a weirdo. He's another boss where you can get a unique item by breaking his tail, but good luck with that. I gave up on it real quick.

By the way, no story spoilers at all but something regarding the end of the game that I wish I had been warned about: killing the final boss chucks you into new game+ immediately, so make sure to finish everything you want to do before that. You'll know when it's coming.

I normally aim for the sides or backs of bosses, but I was fine with having to face Seath's front. For one it's much easier to see what his hands are doing, and it seems like he only does the annoying tail/tentacle writhe attack if you're not at his front.

Kenri posted...

By the way, no story spoilers at all but something regarding the end of the game that I wish I had been warned about: killing the final boss chucks you into new game+ immediately, so make sure to finish everything you want to do before that. You'll know when it's coming.

Thank you for this! Definitely the kind of thing that would piss me off.

BetrayedTangy posted...

There's a side quest here, but I think it's missable if you didn't rescue him from Sen's Fortress first. He's basically a wizard with a comically large hat that goes insane. I think there's also a very hard to find crossbow that gives some lore on the potential architect of the Archives as well as Sen's, but I'm not 100% on that one.

Ah I must've missed that sidequest. I definitely didn't scour Sen's Fortress because it's not at all safe to roam around there even after all the enemies are defeated, I swear that silly boulder pinball mechanism homes in on me. And I forgot there's lore on weapons/armour too, I'll scan through them all later to check if I picked one up here.

BetrayedTangy posted...

Any thoughts on where you're headed next?

Hmm... well I need to check in on Swamptown apparently, then I'm trying to think what else. Maybe Ghosttown? The four kings were definitely mentioned down there, and I'm thinking that might be where the game wants me to head. It'll be no coincidence that I got cursed for the first time by Seath, and once cursed the game explicitly directed me to New Londo to heal, so maybe the Lordvessel opened up a door down there after all.

Aside from that, there's the Catacombs. I've been trying to build up a divine weapon with any spare souls I have lying around, not sure if it'll be good enough yet. I initially thought they'd be the next main quest once the Lordvessel was done given all that stuff with the lady and her guards, but I can't think of anywhere else the 4th lord could be. Can someone please refresh my memory on who Frampt tells me to kill? There was the witch, Seath, the four kings, and one more but I cannot remember the last one's name >_> The witch was at the bottom of the world, and Seath was in a tower high in the sky, so the last two could really be anywhere. Also there's that abyss ring that must come in handy at some point.

You're just blanking on Nito.

Murphiroth posted...

Laurentius (Pyromancer) - Go check the swamp in Blighttown

:|

The bit with Laurentius is one of my favorite things about the game, because in any other game telling him about the Chaos sorcery you found would be the optimal thing to do, but here lying to him and not telling him about it saves his life, because if you don't tell him about it he just stays in Firelink.

Minor spoilers for how hollowing is implied to work - there's a strong implication that you go hollow when you no longer have a purpose or motivation, and so telling him about the Chaos sorcery leads him to go down there looking for the source and he loses his motivation and goes mad when he's unable to find it. Also serve as a meta thing where a player who gets frustrated and gives up on the game could be seen as going hollow themselves.

I can't say no to people in games, if they ask me for help I point them where they want to go! Sieglinde also said her dad went on a 'final mission' and mentioned she may have to kill him again if he goes hollow. So I'm pre-numbing myself for that disaster and assuming that every friendly NPC will get annihilated.

Grand_Kirby posted...

Because it's really hard to find without hints I'll just go right out and mention there's a secret area in the belltower that Quelaag guards. It's not necessary to visit, but is one of the most interesting areas in the game imo so it's worth checking out at some point when you want.

Alright I found this finally, could've done with this warping bonfire a while back! We meet a silent white spider and her talkative servant, no explicit info is given here but the bonfire location is named 'Daughter of Chaos' and it seems very likely she's another one of the witch's children. What her goal is I have no idea, has her servant invented a purpose for himself or is she actually trying to accomplish something, hm. And I'm not gonna splurge humanity on her if all it does is open up a shortcut I have no use for anymore!

I head down to Ghosttown and a random NPC attacks me. I don't recognise this dude but it's probably another friendly face gone hollow. You can't keep pulling the same trick on me and expect it to work every time, game! We manage to get back to samurai dude remarkably quickly, boy I was really underleveled the first time I came here huh. He gives us the key to the seal (you couldn't have given me this the first time I trekked here?!), and mentions the abyss. Way ahead of you, guy!

We empty the water and I brace myself for the darkwraiths. Oh hey, there's that door to Dragontown! I know there's a bonfire over there that's probs quicker to get here from but Firelink gives me 20 flasks so I'm sticking with that. Over the massive piles of skeletons we meet our new enemies, and I'm a bit disappointed these aren't some wretched eldritch beasts. They're just pallet swapped knights with a cool looking/sounding shield! But soon enough I spot the real darkwraiths, gooey masses of skull shaped balls with skulls on that fire exploding skulls out of their skull mouth. Now these things are cool. The sound design of this place is top notch as always, the intentionally poor lighting and things going bump in the dark add to the atmosphere nicely. After a lot of to-ing and fro-ing we find our way to a fog gate (we picked up another Very Large Ember on the way), and then descend the steps into darkness. Literally. The steps end and we have to make a leap of faith into... The Abyss.

Here's our boss fight against the Four Kings. Now I haven't spent much time on this battle yet but I imagine it'll take me a while. First a word on the arena, and what a simple but amazingly effective setup it is. Screw the lava level, this is hell. An empty featureless void in all directions, it's legitimately unsettling. I have a hard time telling distance here, it's surprising what difference a lack of background makes. As for the bosses themselves, their design is nothing spectacular (a shame they're identical to each other) and in terms of moves they're big difficult magic-based knights with a grab attack and a big circular spell. The problem, unsurprisingly, is that there are four of them.

Now unlike Ornstein and Smough this isn't four boss fights shoved into one (thankfully!). One king takes centre stage and his buddies sit on the sidelines, but as the fight progresses we naturally move towards one of them and it starts joining in with some sword attacks and overwhelming me. I have a difficult time drawing the first king away when this happens, and it's so easy to lose my bearings. I've managed to get them down to about half health once but this will require some work- I've found that rolling tends to do the job better than shielding, but I'm missing some key tricks here and it's taking me a while to do significant damage. I'll have a sleep on this one and hopefully come back fresh and full of ideas.

andylt posted...

Alright I found this finally, could've done with this warping bonfire a while back! We meet a silent white spider and her talkative servant, no explicit info is given here but the bonfire location is named 'Daughter of Chaos' and it seems very likely she's another one of the witch's children. What her goal is I have no idea, has her servant invented a purpose for himself or is she actually trying to accomplish something, hm. And I'm not gonna splurge humanity on her if all it does is open up a shortcut I have no use for anymore!

So this one's super depressing. Daughter of Chaos is actually dying of a disease and feeding her humanity helps ease her pain. Which is why Quelaag guards the area, not only is she protecting her dying sister, but she's trying to retrieve humanity to help ease her pain.

Also regarding secret areas there's actually still additional ones in both Blightown and Anor Londo.

If you choose the Old Witch's Ring as your starting gift you can understand what the Daughter of Chaos is saying. Although it's not much. Also, it's heartbreaking.

(You can also get the ring one other way but good luck figuring it out.)

I like the Chaos Servant covenant actually. Aside from being able to save Solaire, you can level it up easily without playing online and get some decent Pyromancy spells out of it.

andylt posted...

They're just pallet swapped knights with a cool looking/sounding shield! But soon enough I spot the real darkwraiths, gooey masses of skull shaped balls with skulls on that fire exploding skulls out of their skull mouth.

Got it a bit wrong. The Darkwraiths are the skeleton knights. You can actually become one if you join their covenant... which you don't have access to anymore. lol

Grand_Kirby posted...

Got it a bit wrong. The Darkwraiths are the skeleton knights. You can actually become one if you join their covenant... which you don't have access to anymore. lol

Of course I don't! lol

Grand_Kirby posted...

(You can also get the ring one other way but good luck figuring it out.)

Yeah I'm learning that I won't be finding most of this game's secrets by myself >_>

BetrayedTangy posted...

Also regarding secret areas there's actually still additional ones in both Blightown and Anor Londo.

Oh whoops, I thought the painted world would be Londo's secret. And I'm sure I rolled through the whole swamp! I even climbed a root that I thought would lead to another area, and rolled into a fake wall, but it just got me a twin humanities.

andylt posted...

And I'm sure I rolled through the whole swamp! I even climbed a root that I thought would lead to another area, and rolled into a fake wall, but it just got me a twin humanities.

Haha. The hidden area is found in a SECOND fake wall that's behind the hidden chest. An excellent piece of work by the game. Everyone gets satisfied by finding the treasure and just leaves afterwards without investigating further.

Grand_Kirby posted...

Haha. The hidden area is found in a SECOND fake wall that's behind the hidden chest. An excellent piece of work by the game. Everyone gets satisfied by finding the treasure and just leaves afterwards without investigating further.

Yeah that's why I said it's almost impossible to find without guidance.

Alright I found the secret treasure room in Anor Londo that has Havel gear, is that what was meant or is there another proper level hidden around here?

Grand_Kirby posted...

Haha. The hidden area is found in a SECOND fake wall that's behind the hidden chest. An excellent piece of work by the game. Everyone gets satisfied by finding the treasure and just leaves afterwards without investigating further.

WTF, I definitely rolled into the wall after the treasure too just to make sure! Dang, must have gotten the wrong part.

andylt posted...

Alright I found the secret treasure room in Anor Londo that has Havel gear, is that what was meant or is there another proper level hidden around here?

There isn't another level there, but there is a hidden area with something very interesting. It's not behind a hidden wall or anything. You either need to equip the Darkmoon Seance Ring, which you probably don't have yet (it's in the Catacombs, or kill Gwynevere. Obviously, depending on what method you use will change what consequences happen...

Ah thanks, I'll head there later on then.

The main problem I'm having with the Four Kings is a lack of damage output, so I decide to look at a change in weapons. I head to the Smith and am reminded that I haven't yet cashed in the latest ember, which will allow me to boost my Longsword to +15 once I get the materials. For now I go exploring.

Following GK and Aecioo's directions I discover the Great Hollow. More like the Average Hollow. This is an entirely vertical level inside a tree with only a few frogs and mushrooms (aggressive this time) in the way of enemies. The big shrooms aren't difficult but have a rather absurd amount of HP for being a basic enemy, but our primary adversary here is gravity. And slippery branches. There's a lot of extra items thrown about, and it's very easy to slide off of branches if you hit them at the wrong angle. One time I get trapped and can't move in any direction, so I have to use a Homeward Bone. That wasn't fun. But hey, I get a bunch of Titanite!

There's not much to note about the Hollow (odd choice of name for an area given the term hollow's main connotation in this game), but from the base of the tree we enter Ash Lake, and this one is something special. Again there's few enemies, but the atmosphere of this place is off the charts. Great music, stunning scenery, very little information given to us, it sparks the imagination! Where exactly are we, are these giant trees holding up the entire world? What are the 'everlasting dragons' and what is the purpose of all this? There's a solemn feel to this place, I'm very glad I get to see this so thanks for pointing me here all. Once I'm done with this game I'm going to need to see how exactly the world is laid out.

I witness Sieglinde and her father having a chat and a hug by the beach before sitting down with an ice cream and enjoying the sunset together. They thank me for being such a good friend, and tell me that most people don't get to see this happy ending. We all join in for a group hug, and live happily ever after.

That would surprise me more than what actually happens here. My friend is already dead at the hands of his daughter. Sigh. This is depressing and all but come on game, why are all of these sidequests ending the exact same way >_> I'm curious about the father/daughter dynamic, Sieglinde was clearly not surprised by this outcome and it seems she killed her dad when he was alive too, but... still. You've got to give me a win, game, I think every single one of my Undead NPC friends is dead now. I don't know why you lost your sense of purpose my Knight of Catarina, hopefully it wasn't my fault, but you will be missed.

I boost my Longsword to max and go back to the Four Kings, they are no trouble now. Look this isn't an impressive tactical fight on my part, but my damage output is about doubled so I can pretty much tank the hits and wail at each king until they go down. The fight is over relatively quickly, and that definitely felt like the safest option to take. Down goes another lord soul!

I liked the New Londo Ruins, and the Abyss is a terrific arena, but the four kings seem to get practically nothing in the way of lore. Especially coming off of the Witch and Seath, who are the architects of their whole area and have connections to a lot of other characters. The soul here just says Gwyn gave these kings pieces of the soul, we don't know much of anything about them. Unless of course I've missed a bunch of stuff, which is pretty likely.

Next time we finally hit the Catacombs!

It's possible to save Sieglinde but the requirements might be even more difficult to come across in a regular playthrough than for Solaire.

I think I tried Great Hollow two or three times before going "yeah fuck this actually" and just leaving. Never got to see Ash Lake. Nice work making it to the bottom!

Four Kings is one of the only real "dps checks" in the entire series, so good job

Posting this now that you've seen the aggressive mushrooms.

https://i.imgur.com/G9zICag.gifv

As long as we're posting our favorite gifs...

https://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Dark+souls+in+a+nutshell_e91a86_3974198.gif

The Great Hollow has a glaring geometry error in it that's very bizarre. A portion of the path was incorrectly coded and the walkable part of it was placed off to the side of the branch it's supposed to be at. When you try to walk on it, you'll be blocked and can't continue, seemingly trapping you in the area forever. The solution is to walk off to the side of the branch. Even though it looks like you'll fall you'll be able to walk on the air and continue. They never fixed this, even in the Remastered version...

andylt posted...

That would surprise me more than what actually happens here. My friend is already dead at the hands of his daughter. Sigh. This is depressing and all but come on game, why are all of these sidequests ending the exact same way >_> I'm curious about the father/daughter dynamic, Sieglinde was clearly not surprised by this outcome and it seems she killed her dad when he was alive too, but... still. You've got to give me a win, game, I think every single one of my Undead NPC friends is dead now. I don't know why you lost your sense of purpose my Knight of Catarina, hopefully it wasn't my fault, but you will be missed.

...And that's the best outcome lol. I think the theory as to why he turns Hollow is because after all the times you helped him he realized you were better than him in every way and he lost his reason to continue adventuring. Dark Souls really turns the idea of doing sidequests to help people on its head...

The Four Kings boss is pretty much a DPS check, yeah. The bosses spawn one by one, so if you kill them fast enough you won't be swarmed.

andylt posted...

I liked the New Londo Ruins, and the Abyss is a terrific arena, but the four kings seem to get practically nothing in the way of lore. Especially coming off of the Witch and Seath, who are the architects of their whole area and have connections to a lot of other characters. The soul here just says Gwyn gave these kings pieces of the soul, we don't know much of anything about them. Unless of course I've missed a bunch of stuff, which is pretty likely.

The Abyss gets a lot more mileage and importance in the DLC.

Glad I'm not the only one who struggled with Great Hollow. I love this game's world design but moving around that place wasn't the easiest! I wonder why they didn't fix it in the remaster. And dang, it's sounding like I really should get the DLC >_>

I hope there's no more DPS checks because I've maxed out this one weapon, the smith can't bail me out again!

If you are enjoying the game (and it sounds like you are), the DLC is arguably the best part. As someone else said, Fromsoft almost always improves on the game during the DLC. They're really good at seeing what worked and didn't work from the main game and going from there.

Hence why I'm grumpy that we will never see Sekiro DLC because it's my second favorite that they've made and I want new and improved Sekiro :(

Just to check, Artorias of the Abyss is the only DLC for this game right?

The Catacombs aren't too troublesome, there's way more connecting paths than it first seems. I breeze through this until those damn skeletons in wheels show up again, and I very slowly drag one at a time into the nearby corridor so they don't overwhelm me. I hear the telltale cling clang of a blacksmith nearby but I can't find my way to them, so I'm gonna have to come back here later. On my second trip down later on I find the secret bonfire and climb into a coffin, which takes me to another covenant. I abandon whatever one I was in to get the joining up bonus item from this one, I'm loyal like that. I wish these covenants were more useful to me but I do like how you find each one in a completely different way.

Before long we jump into a giant coffin (brilliant idea for an arena) and meet our next boss, the very strange Pinwheel. Nothing about this fight makes sense. For one, this fight takes place right after the room with the skeleton wheels, and the boss has 'wheel' in the name, but it's not even a wheel. But more importantly, this battle is over in less than a minute. Now I like a good 'spot the real one' fight and the design of Pinwheel is cool, and it's not like me to wish this game was more difficult, but I feel like they misplaced a decimal point when deciding this thing's HP >_> At first I am convinced that this is a fakeout fight or stage one of three, and that we will have to fight it again but harder to get the other two masks, but nope this appears to be it! Strange stuff. Well, we get the Rite of Kindling out of it. I have a harder time finding the ladder out of this room than I do with the actual fight!

Into the Tomb of the Giants we go, and this area is much more challenging. It's pitch black, there's giant skeletons everywhere, glowing arrows firing at us from the distance, and giant skeletal dog things that are a massive pain in the ass. After a couple of deaths I get the bright idea to use the Sunlight Maggot, which really helps. The enemies seem to be pretty blind, so I can avoid most instances of combat this way by staying slightly out of their sightline. We can see both Lost Izalith and the Ash Lake from here, pretty neat.

There's a friendly guy down here who is clearly leading me into a trap. I decide to humour him by looking over the edge, not realising the game would jump into a cutscene and push me into the pit. Oops! Weirdly there's nothing dangerous down here, although we do find the lady from ages ago who was on her trek. After killing her two now hollow guards she gives me some miracle, and that appears to be that. Huh, I thought she would be more important. I decide to befriend the guy who pushed me because I'm feeling forgiving, and because this way maybe I'll make one friend this game who doesn't perish.

Eventually we pass a room full of pinwheels and reach our boss, Gravelord Nito. Hey I'm in your covenant, why are you attacking me! My first two attempts go poorly, I get swarmed with the skellys and mistakenly try to focus on Nito. On my third try I take out the small skeletons first and stay away from the back so the giant ones don't attack me, and to my surprise Nito doesn't spawn more. From here the fight is very easy, I can't hit his back but he's so slow and his moves are so telegraphed that I can easily land several safe hits every few seconds. Our final lord goes down!

I feel like going here last made this area much more manageable, it would probably be hell if I had weaker weaponry and nothing to light up the darkness. But I guess whichever place I picked last would likely be relatively easy. I head back to Firelink expecting a grand welcome, and... Frampt is asleep again. Why do I even bother. I move around until he's awake, and fill the Lordvessel to open up the Kiln of the First Flame. I'm not sure if this is the last area of the game or merely the beginning of the next act, but I have other things to do before heading forward (I didn't find that ring in the Catacombs yet, and still need to reach the Smith).

I'm away from home now so I won't be able to play for a few days :( But I'm happy to have beaten this section! The Archives was probably my favourite overall of these last four major areas.

Yes, that's the only DLC. If you are thinking of getting it do it now. You are at a point of no return and if you continue you will have to start a new game/do ng+ and get through at least anor londo again before being able to access it

andylt posted...

But more importantly, this battle is over in less than a minute. Now I like a good 'spot the real one' fight and the design of Pinwheel is cool, and it's not like me to wish this game was more difficult, but I feel like they misplaced a decimal point when deciding this thing's HP >_> At first I am convinced that this is a fakeout fight or stage one of three, and that we will have to fight it again but harder to get the other two masks, but nope this appears to be it! Strange stuff. Well, we get the Rite of Kindling out of it. I have a harder time finding the ladder out of this room than I do with the actual fight!

I honestly love Pinwheel. He's a great break in the middle of what I consider to be the worst two areas in the game and he has a super fascinating backstory. Essentially he was experimenting with necromancy and accidentally combined himself, his wife and his child into the same body. Now he's desperately trying to find a way to fix them. You can also hear them whispering in his theme song, it's super eerie.

I'll give you a bit of a hint when it comes to finding the blacksmith. The entrance is not in the bonewheel pit, that way you don't have to waste your time dealing with those awful enemies.

Pinwheel is the biggest joke in the entire game. You're likely to take more damage falling into its boss room than taking any hits from it.

andylt posted...

On my second trip down later on I find the secret bonfire and climb into a coffin, which takes me to another covenant. I abandon whatever one I was in to get the joining up bonus item from this one, I'm loyal like that. I wish these covenants were more useful to me but I do like how you find each one in a completely different way.

Nice job finding that covenant, it's kind of tricky. Of course, you can't join after defeating Nito, or continue it afterwards...

For the record abandoning covenants marks you with Sin which will cause other players to hunt you down and kill you, but you don't have to worry about that if you're playing offline.

And yeah, you're getting close to the end and will be locked out of everything else you'll want to do, so you might want to get that done while the can.

Aecioo posted...

Yes, that's the only DLC. If you are thinking of getting it do it now. You are at a point of no return and if you continue you will have to start a new game/do ng+ and get through at least anor londo again before being able to access it

It should be noted that even finding the DLC area is unusually complicated and hidden. Dark Souls doesn't let up even in this case lol

Pinwheel almost killed me on my first try. 2nd easiest boss in the game imo

Yeah if you get the DLC I will just post how to access it in spoiler quotes because I can't really imagine any sane person finding it on its own

I wonder how many Covenants I've missed at this point.

And lol I did wonder about the DLC, I assumed it wouldn't be hard to find because why would they bury away a piece of content the user has paid directly for >_> Should've known better!

Kenri posted...

2nd easiest boss in the game imo

Hmm, who is the easiest (unless it's someone I haven't done)? Actually I wonder how many bosses there are total. Going off of memory...

Asylum Demon
Taurus Demon
Bell Gargoyles
Capra Demon
Gaping Dragon
Quelaag
Iron Golem
Ornstein and Smough
Sif
Stray Demon
Ariamis
Ceaseless Discharge
Demon Firesage
Centipede Demon
Bed of Chaos
Seath the Scaleless
Four Kings
Pinwheel
Gravelord Nito

The only ones I beat first try are Pinwheel and Gaping Dragon, and I took two tries on Capra, Quelaag, and Sif. Maybe there's others I'm forgetting, or you're counting the Ariamis one that you can skip.

And that reminds me, the giant blacksmith upgrade listed souls for Artorias, Gwyn, Gwyndolin and Manus. Haven't met any of them yet, maybe there's a boss rush waiting for me in the final area... I know who Artorias and Gwyn are but I thought they were both dead, I'm guessing Gwyndolin is Gwyn's hidden other child (maybe an optional superboss?), and no idea on Manus. I wonder if there's just loads of ways you can play this game and fighting different bosses is part of that.

I think it's at least possible to stumble across the DLC if you had it installed from the beginning. Adding it mid-game though...not so much.

Won't give numbers, but that's a mix of optional, dlc, and endgame bosses, in no order

Up, I should be back to this at the weekend. Probably gonna buy the DLC as it's getting rave reviews in here!

Yeah the dlc is incredible. I just replayed through the game myself, spurred on by this topic. I've played Artorias of the Abyss a few times before but I don't recall ever actually beating it, maybe once... But this time I did and it was a blast. Found myself wishing to rewind the game after defeating each boss there just so I could fight them again. They're that cool.

If you're going for easiest, it's actually one of the ones you struggled on, but not to make you feel bad.

It's Iron Golem; there's an NPC summon that can solo him in a closeby tower, and that summon is one of the many series badasses.

And even then, if you had heavier weaponry, Iron Golem can be staggered... and die immediately falling off the cliff.

Second easiest? goes to Ceaseless Discharge, who will detach himself from the wall if you run away and die for it.

Neither of those is the boss I was thinking of as the easiest, and that's all I'll say on that for now!

Easiest boss has to be Pinwheel or, technically, the lady in the painted world that you can choose not to fight. If there's another proper boss fight easier than that I will be surprised!

I did end up killing the Golem by having him fall off the cliff! But I had a rough time of that fight, yeah. I haven't used summons at all so I figured it'd be a level playing field, but I guess some NPCs are stronger than others.

Isquen posted...

Second easiest? goes to Ceaseless Discharge, who will detach himself from the wall if you run away and die for it.

...huh, I did not know this. I guess this is the other 'cheese' method I was supposed to do!

I'm not sure you can even call it a cheese when the boss basically commits suicide. It was designed into the game that way, if anything he's cheesing himself lol

Though it does feel kind of cheap to defeat him that way, regardless I think I've only fought him legit once.

When it comes to Souls games, I've played DS1 and DS2 a ton, and Demon's Souls as well.
Pretty far in Elden Ring, but I have not played DS3.

DS2 is the one I've easily played the most. I hit max level of 838 after 500+ hours.

Hm I was gonna bring this up after I finished DS1 (fingers crossed!), but... is DS2 good? I thought it was widely regarded as the black sheep of the series like DMC2, but I've since looked and seen that it actually reviewed the best of any of the Souls games and it clearly has fans here! Was I mistaken in my assumption that people rag on 2, does it split people or has the tide turned or what?

Dark Souls 2 is the clear weak link of the series imo, but not by THAT much, and 'worst From Software game' is still better than 99.9% of games

From what I've heard DS2 gets a ton of flak for having the most unfair game design our of all the Souls games. That said I also know a ton of people that adore it and have put more time into it than anything else in the franchise.