Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 393: Raid on Bungling Bay

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Someone said that conservatives view criminals moreso as a class of people beneath them in the caste system instead of as a descriptor of people who commit a crime

Jakyl25 posted...

Someone said that conservatives view criminals moreso as a class of people beneath them in the caste system instead of as a descriptor of people who commit a crime

I'm reminded of the book Flatland. It's a book about a 2D world where the inhabitants are all 2D beings, but the really interesting thing about it IMO is the extremely rigid caste system they have and how this was apparently not seen as unusual in Victorian times when it was published.

Basically, male inhabitants of Flatland are regular polygons, and every generation they are on good behavior, the next generation of the family will gain one side. So a pentagon would have a square as a father and a hexagon as a son. Your status in society is basically solely determined by how many sides you have, with circles being the most elite (since they have "infinite" sides).

But, people who are born as irregular polygons are treated as defective and with extreme prejudice. And irregular triangles are apparently very common - the social ladder only starts with equilateral triangles which are the lowest rung of the middle class but there are many irregular triangles who belong to the lower class. How low you are as an isoceles triangle depends on how pointy you are - the sharper the angle the lower you are in society. And apparently it takes many generations of good behavior for a very pointy triangle's family to become equilateral, which allows them to start on the social ladder.

Anyways, the narrator (a square) describes the very pointy isoceles as a class of criminals. So they're criminals because of their geometric shape, not because of any crime they committed.

so you're saying Trump isn't shaped like a criminal, and that's why conservatives don't get it

Trump is definitely shaped like The Penguin

The Penguin has better physique though

Jakyl25 posted...

Someone said that conservatives view criminals moreso as a class of people beneath them in the caste system instead of as a descriptor of people who commit a crime

That just brings to mind how many pro-gun celebrities like Bruce Willis think taking away gun rights would mean only the bad guys have guns. As if the world is that simple.

Maybe Bruce wasn't acting as John McClane...

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1557405932023324673?t=-_f_d7BiheRetW_qx3nfHQ&s=19

Something something defund the fucking police

My god, are they asking for bad publicity?

Peace___Frog posted...

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1557405932023324673?t=-_f_d7BiheRetW_qx3nfHQ&s=19

Something something defund the fucking police

Don't worry the police union will ensure they get a few month paid vacation and then they will feed more money to the pro-police candidate so that all is well.

Peace___Frog posted...

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1557405932023324673?t=-_f_d7BiheRetW_qx3nfHQ&s=19

Something something defund the fucking police

Hey, it's just a few bad apples. Would you stop eating chocolate if every day the news had stories of people buying chocolate only for it to actually be poop? Of course not, you'd buy more and insist on less oversight for candy makers because FREEDOM (and also because some people just deserve to eat poop).

Yeah don't be racist towards police oh wait.

Jakyl25 posted...

Someone said that conservatives view criminals moreso as a class of people beneath them in the caste system instead of as a descriptor of people who commit a crime

Yeah conservatism makes a lot more sense once you realize they judge actions by the person doing them rather than judging people by their actions

red_sox_777 posted...

I'm reminded of the book Flatland. It's a book about a 2D world where the inhabitants are all 2D beings, but the really interesting thing about it IMO is the extremely rigid caste system they have and how this was apparently not seen as unusual in Victorian times when it was published.

Basically, male inhabitants of Flatland are regular polygons, and every generation they are on good behavior, the next generation of the family will gain one side. So a pentagon would have a square as a father and a hexagon as a son. Your status in society is basically solely determined by how many sides you have, with circles being the most elite (since they have "infinite" sides).

But, people who are born as irregular polygons are treated as defective and with extreme prejudice. And irregular triangles are apparently very common - the social ladder only starts with equilateral triangles which are the lowest rung of the middle class but there are many irregular triangles who belong to the lower class. How low you are as an isoceles triangle depends on how pointy you are - the sharper the angle the lower you are in society. And apparently it takes many generations of good behavior for a very pointy triangle's family to become equilateral, which allows them to start on the social ladder.

Anyways, the narrator (a square) describes the very pointy isoceles as a class of criminals. So they're criminals because of their geometric shape, not because of any crime they committed.

Isnt this the plot of the last Paper Mario

https://twitter.com/livingbluetx/status/1557138184563314690?s=21&t=mwHhIncxEs6xDpkLZYHkew

Many many psychos having a normal one. No reason to care at all, not like the elected officials they support have said we wont let the election get stolen again or anything.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/livingbluetx/status/1557138184563314690?s=21&t=mwHhIncxEs6xDpkLZYHkew

Many many psychos having a normal one. No reason to care at all, not like the elected officials they support have said we wont let the election get stolen again or anything.

I genuinely feel so bad for these people. They're victims of an incredibly powerful propaganda machine that at this point no longer cares if people die. Directly, I should add. They've never cared if people die indirectly through horrible policies.

I don't feel bad. Not when they're saying shit like "We've been waiting for civil war for so long." When you say shit like that, the propaganda machine isn't the cause, it's an excuse/avenue to act on what you've wanted all along.

Ive seen people be arrested for less than these people

StartTheMachine posted...

I genuinely feel so bad for these people. They're victims of an incredibly powerful propaganda machine that at this point no longer cares if people die. Directly, I should add. They've never cared if people die indirectly through horrible policies.

Nah fuck these people.

StartTheMachine posted...

I genuinely feel so bad for these people. They're victims of an incredibly powerful propaganda machine that at this point no longer cares if people die. Directly, I should add. They've never cared if people die indirectly through horrible policies.

I feel bad for these peoples families who arent crazy, but they are willing (and downright excited) to go down this we paththese people themselves can get fucked.

These people genuinely believe all the lies they've been told of a stolen election and a rogue FBI agency targeting Trump for "fighting the establishment." They're idiots, but they're also victims.

Theyre victims of disinformation literally trying to rally their buddies to kill people.

Theres a point where empathizing with that crosses into negligence.

StartTheMachine posted...

These people genuinely believe all the lies they've been told of a stolen election and a rogue FBI agency targeting Trump for "fighting the establishment." They're idiots, but they're also victims.

I'm honestly not even convinced they all believe the lies. I'd say there's a good percentage just using it all as an excuse. It gives them a "reason" they can point to to talk about killing people they already want to kill.

part of their belief is because they want it, and that they really don't want to admit they've been eating up such gross horseshit for god knows however long

like it's gotten to the point for so many now that there's just really no turning back because you'd have to accept just how far gone you went and nobody wants to think that of themselves

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Theyre victims of disinformation literally trying to rally their buddies to kill people.

Theres a point where empathizing with that crosses into negligence.

^

Like, Tony's right. These people are very, very close to turning their LARP into reality. I'm long past the point of empathy.

StealThisSheen posted...

I'm honestly not even convinced they all believe the lies. I'd say there's a good percentage just using it all as an excuse. It gives them a "reason" they can point to to talk about killing people they already want to kill.

And this, too.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Theyre victims of disinformation literally trying to rally their buddies to kill people.

Theres a point where empathizing with that crosses into negligence.

StealThisSheen posted...

I'm honestly not even convinced they all believe the lies. I'd say there's a good percentage just using it all as an excuse. It gives them a "reason" they can point to to talk about killing people they already want to kill.

Take it from somebody who once had a kind-hearted father who genuinely believes this shit now. He never "needed an excuse" to hurt people. He only cared for and wanted to help people before the right-wing brainworms. He's a fucking victim.

I also have very little sympathy for him and he's a miserable human being to be around these days, and he'll likely never be pulled out of the cult no matter what facts are presented to him. But I can still recognize the obvious fact that he's a slave to the emotional turmoil created for him by the super rich to keep him voting against his own interests.

If you were already Nazi-affiliated before consuming some form of right-wing media, well fuck you. But you also probably don't even exist.

StartTheMachine posted...

If you were already Nazi-affiliated before consuming some form of right-wing media, well fuck you. But you also probably don't even exist.

do i gotta mention my brother again

GuessMyUserName posted...

do i gotta mention my brother again

he literally never consumed anything right-wing before becoming a Nazi? it just happened spontaneously? obviously nobody young watches Fox News, they get all their Nazi propaganda from reddit and 4chan

I really need someone to collect a Greatest Hits list of GMUN's brother

Where are Lasa's archived topics when you need them

I mean if you went straight to Nazi from "anything right-wing at all," I'd say that's a problem with the person, mainly.

StartTheMachine posted...

he literally never consumed anything right-wing before becoming a Nazi? it just happened spontaneously? obviously nobody young watches Fox News, they get all their Nazi propaganda from reddit and 4chan

he hated conservatives and liberals and had been a lifelong NDP stan (basic canadapoli lesson: NDP left, Liberals center, Conservatives right) til recently

nevertheless he still has a sketchy nazi high school history some of it edgelord shock shit, some of it New Atheist Sam Harris bell curve garbage

he's only gotten into actual right-wing shit over COVID and the PPC (new fringe ultra-right party), now calling the NDP shills for the ~mainstream media~

was also a big Yang guy

GuessMyUserName posted...

he hated conservatives and liberals and had been a lifelong NDP stan (basic canadapoli lesson: NDP left, Liberals center, Conservatives right) til recently

nevertheless he still has a sketchy nazi high school history some of it edgelord shock shit, some of it New Atheist Sam Harris bell curve garbage

he's only gotten into actual right-wing shit over COVID and the PPC (new fringe ultra-right party), now calling the NDP shills for the ~mainstream media~

was also a big Yang guy

so what you're telling me is he consumed media that shaped his views

maybe people aren't naturally born racist pieces of shit?

anyway the right-wing propaganda machine has destroyed our country and these people also suck and I'm drunk

Blur has a nuanced point that is correct but none of us give a fuck to hear it in this thread space and that's also okay.

We discuss the horrors of these people voting every day. It's hard to want to bother to have perspective because it gets us nothing.

Including me btw.

I mean he was a piece of shit before he was explicitly rightwing, like that wasn't the beginning of his misogyny (threatening stalker behaviour towards exes) and racism (repeat: bell curve)

politically he was more of a South Park anti-establishment dude who loved being an edgelord and anti-PC

he fell into the right recently because they're the only people now saying what he wants to hear and he sought those voices out and now he's entirely consumed into every rightwing youtube/podcast/discord

While you definitely can't absolve Trump's followers of everything, it's undoubtedly true that he made most of them worse people than they were before him. It's one of the worst things about Trump (amid some fierce competition).

Yeah like, what's the endgame of having empathy towards GOP-brainwashed people? I don't care about the moral high ground and pragmatically speaking there's way more cons than pros.

I don't think people are "naturally" far-right and propaganda does shape people, but it's a mistake to discredit people's agency and the choices they make afterwards.

Empathy only really matters if you're the one reaching out to deprogram these people

KamikazePotato posted...

Yeah like, what's the endgame of having empathy towards GOP-brainwashed people? I don't care about the moral high ground and pragmatically speaking there's way more cons than pros.

Focusing on the root of the problem

There's a very obvious reason for the dramatic right-wing shift of the country since the 90s

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I don't think people are "naturally" far-right and propaganda does shape people, but it's a mistake to discredit people's agency and the choices they make afterwards.

^^^^^

KamikazePotato posted...

Yeah like, what's the endgame of having empathy towards GOP-brainwashed people? I don't care about the moral high ground and pragmatically speaking there's way more cons than pros.

For me it is understanding a lot of the root causes of how it eventually got there and learning.

Which is a conversation not really for a political thread tbh.

My dad chose to call climate change "God's retribution for your generation's sinful ways" immediately after calling it a hoax this morning.

I feel like, more than ever; any attempt at deprogramming is a lost cause.

StartTheMachine posted...

Take it from somebody who once had a kind-hearted father who genuinely believes this shit now. He never "needed an excuse" to hurt people. He only cared for and wanted to help people before the right-wing brainworms. He's a fucking victim.

I don't see what people who were genuinely good beforehand got out of this stuff initially, though. Like, if I turn on the TV and hear Tucker Carlson, my reaction is "this sucks shit" and then I turn it off. But a lot of people keep watching, and what am I supposed to think of that if not "well, they're probably being told something they already like"?

Its not even good brainwashing. Its not subtle. If you watch republication **** shows and you think mmmm boy that is some content I want to make the focus of my life then you were already a piece of a shit. Even your dad. Even my dad.

Lolo_Guru posted...

My dad chose to call climate change "God's retribution for your generation's sinful ways" immediately after calling it a hoax this morning.

I feel like, more than ever; any attempt at deprogramming is a lost cause.

Yeah to be fair we really should've been a little less sinful.

I disagree, there's not enough sinning for my tastes.

Kenri posted...

I don't see what people who were genuinely good beforehand got out of this stuff initially, though. Like, if I turn on the TV and hear Tucker Carlson, my reaction is "this sucks shit" and then I turn it off. But a lot of people keep watching, and what am I supposed to think of that if not "well, they're probably being told something they already like"?

Getting them very young is the indoctrination process that works on mass shooters. Appealing to things like "Christian and family values", '"patriotism", "strong work ethic" is what works on others. And certainly their own natural dissatisfaction with their lives and fear of others.

It's just an empirical fact that the conservative leaders of this country went from Eisenhower to Trump. A shift like that is simply not possible with an informed electorate.

Let's put it this way: you find out someone is a scientologist - is your first instinct to call them a massive piece of shit or a victim?

That's not to rob anyone of their agency, and hopefully I made that clear. But you can indeed acknowledge someone as having agency of their shitty choices and still recognize their being a victim of something larger.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Its not even good brainwashing. Its not subtle.

Now this I agree with though. Like holy fuck. Even though I predicted Trump being elected, I also had some small shred of hope that he might also finally deconvert a chunk of Fox News viewers (now Newsmax viewers) like my Dad through his sheer idiocy and egregious narcissism. I guarantee you, the average Trumper is smarter than Trump is by simple IQ metrics (obviously a horrible way to measure critical thinking skills). Genuinely think Trump is near the level of mental disability.

But you know, once that didn't happen, it was also obvious they would all buy his lie that he won the election

This post is now just about making fun of foolmo for saying 2% of the American public would believe the election was stolen or whatever dumb shit he said. Let's all just make fun of foolmo together

StealThisSheen posted...

I don't feel bad. Not when they're saying shit like "We've been waiting for civil war for so long."

reminder that sephyg literally said "we're bloodthirsty for a new war"

also, add my dad to the list of dads who used to be on the left and now spend literally every day watching ben shapiro and jordan peterson and comicsgate people and bullshit like that on youtube.

this propaganda seems to be particularly effective on old dads.

Lolo_Guru posted...

My dad chose to call climate change "God's retribution for your generation's sinful ways" immediately after calling it a hoax this morning.

I feel like, more than ever; any attempt at deprogramming is a lost cause.

ok I think I see how he gets here

obviously Al Gores climate hoax was fake. Thats been proven... but your dad still sees the abnormally extreme temperatures/weather, so there must be an alternate reason for that,

ipso facto, Gods made France too hot because hes mad about pronouns

I mean the thing is propaganda doesn't have to be good if it fits into peoples preconceived notions and validates their ignorance, because people want to be told that they're right rather than be informed on what they don't know.

Now more than ever we live in a world where people can find whatever reality of truths they need for themselves. Confirmation bias has been pushed to the absolute extreme now where people will seek out the voices that back themselves up - and when they do, that person becomes an authority to them. Someone that proves all the others wrong, that you are right, and so the audience start picking up whatever else they're saying that they didn't particularly care about before just because the speaker is held up as a voice of reason for saying what really mattered.