Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 11 - Puzzle League

(+) Yeah! (+)

Living Playerlist

1. Chaeix (JC)
2. Hbthebattle
3. Kirby
4. Lea
5. MZero
6. Red13n
7. SBell
8. Scare
9. Sir Chris
10. Ulti
11. ViolentAbacus

Killed by a surfer
LD1 - Sheep - Venomoff Gideon, DARK SIDE Tracker/Poisoner
KN1 - IGCD - Charmandalorian, LIGHT SIDE Bodyguard/Vanilla
LD2 - Ben - Professor Snoke, DARK SIDE Neighborizer/Redirector
KN2 - Corrik - Padm Amidalakazam, LIGHT SIDE Vanilla/Psychic
LD3 - Chang - Ki-Adi Munna, LIGHT SIDE Vanilla/Vanilla
KN3 - Masterplum - Surskit Fisto, LIGHT SIDE Vanilla/Vanilla
LD4 - Arti - Pokdexter Jettser, LIGHT SIDE Vanilla/Flavor Cop
KN4 - Death - Mace Windewgong - LIGHT SIDE Cop/Vanilla
LD5 - Isquen - Sheevee - DARK SIDE Godfather Ninja/Backup
KN5 - Sultan - Tentacoola - LIGHT SIDE Prostitute/Vanilla

Geodude, Rapidash, Magneton, Votals
[2] Red: Hb, Kirby
[1] JC: Chris, (Ulti)
[1] MZero: Lea, (Kirby)
[1] Ulti: SBell
[1] Lea: Ulti
[0] Abacus: (Ulti)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to reach majority. Day ends at 7pm eastern on Wednesday, roughly 25 hours from now.

I was wondering when we were gonna move. Repost:

... In hindsight, Red targeting Lea should've been obvious. Derp. But thank you for sharing.

##Unvote

If Lea is an auto-roleblocker, though... it's a risky gambit but one that checks out unless multiple people target her in the same night. She could easily say "nobody visited me" without actually knowing who visited her... because those people would've just said they were roleblocked.

... Yeah, that's starting to make a lot more sense. Roleblocking the Watcher and redirecting the Hider to somebody innocent in case of a stray vig shot makes more sense than redirecting the Watcher and roleblocking the Hider (and then killing the vanilla/Cop). But the latter scenario happened because there's no control over the roleblock. Red, I don't think your theory is as insane as you think it might be.

We're not quite done yet. Red, we need to know who you targeted n2 as well.

Literally the most obvious answer because people will usually claim roleblocked.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Red never said he dies hiding behind scum. As Sbell pointed out, Red's primary objective is to hide behind scum.

Hbthebattle posted...

We're not quite done yet. Red, we need to know who you targeted n2 as well.

He said he didn't move N2.

Given Red's nature, I think this checks out. My assumption is that he didn't want to accidentally be responsible for, say, killing the Town Cop. (Not that I remember who Red actually suspected, but just an example of why he may have been hesitant)

Red also confirmed that he doesn't die when hiding behind scum, so he has no reason to hide unless he suspects somebody of being scum.

Hmm. So we have the rope to let this interaction go tonight. Possibly? Should we use that rope? Ehh

Red can you please order mzero abacus and jc from most to least suspect?

Oh. Well cat is out of the bag town spelled it out too hard.

Leafeon13N posted...

Oh. Well cat is out of the bag town spelled it out too hard.

I mean, now we have strong leads on who the remaining Scum are. Now it's just a matter of which lead to pursue.

Red didn't target anyone n2 huh

What a strange decision.

Kirby321 posted...

Red also confirmed that he doesn't die when hiding behind scum, so he has no reason to hide unless he suspects somebody of being scum.

I didn't actually confirm this. But yeah i dont die hiding behind scum.

I actually hid behind ulti N2 though.

Hell my last post, i think it was last anyway, literally said Hulti or HUlti i forget how much i wanted to spell it out.

Leafeon13N posted...

I didn't actually confirm this. But yeah i dont die hiding behind scum.

I actually hid behind ulti N2 though.

Hell my last post, i think it was last anyway, literally said Hulti or HUlti i forget how much i wanted to spell it out.

Oh lol. What a very strange role indeed then. Makes sense. You aren't useful at all!

(The role anyway)

DoomTheGyarados posted...

(The role anyway)

Not true. But very limited.

OK hold on
you said on day 4 you didn't want to out your n2 target because it would make them a nightkill target

Why would you say that if your role doesn't townclear?

Hbthebattle posted...

OK hold on
you said on day 4 you didn't want to out your n2 target because it would make them a nightkill target

Why would you say that if your role doesn't townclear?

Because scum thinking I was normal hider was more useful.

Didn't you reply to Sbell's question with "yes"? Even if you said it was true from a "technical standpoint", that's more or less confirmation of your objectives in my eyes. But whatever, that's semantics.

In any case, I believe you. Question is whether we leave Lea alive today or not. Auto-roleblocker is meddlesome, and we can easily avoid it in pursuit of more powerful scum roles that may be remaining, but scum is scum. I'm more concerned about killing the Role Thief before the next Star Wars night so we can get tracker scans back, but even the smallest victory counts.

At this point, I'm willing to entertain a Lea or Mzero lynch. I believe Red, and Ulti is too risky to lynch right now, leaving Mzero as the remaining one without an N1 alibi.
... Then again, Scum Lea propping up Mzero, the Role Thief, as a sacrifice for today is just what

Yeah, let's kill Lea. ##Vote: Lea

I feel like nothing red has done since claiming makes sense from a scum perspective. Lynches are very valuable right now though. Probably the most valuable thing we have. I feel like confirming Lea one way or another tonight is fine. Just lynching Lea is also fine. But every mislynch at this point puts us closer to danger.

Hmm.

Hm hm hm. Reds claim it turns out isn't worth much but the way he did it checks out. We don't know 3 of the scum roles on even nights so him being roleblocked could be a number of things still. Maybe scum can target a player and anyone who targets that person is instead roleblocked. They thought it only natural someone would check Lea to frame her.

Spinning yarns for the moment.

alright, red, confirm this one thing for me. You do have the ability to reflect bullets away from yourself, right?

Kirby321 posted...

Didn't you reply to Sbell's question with "yes"? Even if you said it was true from a "technical standpoint", that's more or less confirmation of your objectives in my eyes. But whatever, that's semantics.

I could have made a different semantic argument.

Hbthebattle posted...

alright, red, confirm this one thing for me. You do have the ability to reflect bullets away from yourself, right?

Essentially. I wouldn't use that phrasing but yes.

Careful. I came up with an idea for a role where Lea and red are both Town in 2 minutes. Doesn't have to be true but let's have a think

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Hm hm hm. Reds claim it turns out isn't worth much but the way he did it checks out. We don't know 3 of the scum roles on even nights so him being roleblocked could be a number of things still. Maybe scum can target a player and anyone who targets that person is instead roleblocked. They thought it only natural someone would check Lea to frame her.

Doubt it. As a power role, don't you get confirmation on whether your action succeeded or not? If Lea is truthful about being a Mirror, she would've known that she would've made somebody an "auto-roleblocker" or something. But her statement was that nobody visited her last night. She's clearly lying about something.

Ok, then I have an issue with your role from a game balance perspective. It could easily lead to things like "a scum team has to deal with an invincible Chris" or some such.

And I don't understand how your role conflicts with Lea's, either. Wouldn't the bullet just.. go back to the person who sent it?

Hbthebattle posted...

And I don't understand how your role conflicts with Lea's, either. Wouldn't the bullet just.. go back to the person who sent it?

You are mixing mine and leas roles up.

If I'm set to die my target dies instead. Not reflect back.

Actually I think red's role is strongly powerful protection now that hb says it that way. I get to hide behind whoever I want. If it is scum and they target me I have just killed scum with no downside.

That does have the chance to be brutally broken. But it is niche.

Hm

Hbthebattle posted...

Ok, then I have an issue with your role from a game balance perspective. It could easily lead to things like "a scum team has to deal with an invincible Chris" or some such.

Hmm... this is a good point. Metaing the host, but a good point nonetheless.
... But does this mean you don't have an issue with Lea's role from a game balance perspective?

Kirby321 posted...

Doubt it. As a power role, don't you get confirmation on whether your action succeeded or not? If Lea is truthful about being a Mirror, she would've known that she would've made somebody an "auto-roleblocker" or something. But her statement was that nobody visited her last night. She's clearly lying about something.

Unless it was done to her on a star wars night and simply lasted multiple days.

Actually I take that back immediately because I believe she claimed day 4. Hmm hmm. Theories are growing slim.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Actually I think red's role is strongly powerful protection now that hb says it that way. I get to hide behind whoever I want. If it is scum and they target me I have just killed scum with no downside.

That does have the chance to be brutally broken. But it is niche.

Hm

I mean, the downside is, well, you could get town killed. Like the Cop. Or the Tracker. Or the Watcher.

But I have to agree it is very strong self protection/redirection.

Kirby321 posted...

Hmm... this is a good point. Metaing the host, but a good point nonetheless.
... But does this mean you don't have an issue with Lea's role from a game balance perspective?

You shoot Lea she supposedly just dies.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Actually I think red's role is strongly powerful protection now that hb says it that way. I get to hide behind whoever I want. If it is scum and they target me I have just killed scum with no downside.

That does have the chance to be brutally broken. But it is niche.

Hm

Ugh this is too meta. I dont function on scum target. I just die.

Which on Leas claim was the solve for infinite loop.

Leafeon13N posted...

You are mixing mine and leas roles up.

If I'm set to die my target dies instead. Not reflect back.

No, I'm talking about your stated conflict with her role - that it creates an infinite loop if someone shoots at you and you target her.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

You shoot Lea she supposedly just dies.

Right, but wasn't your biggest argument about Lea's phony role was that it's passive rolecop in a setup with two Flavor Cops, a Watcher, and a Psychic? Lea's role is quite literally Psychic with passive Role Thief (or Role Mimic? Thief doesn't sound right in this context).

Leafeon13N posted...

Ugh this is too meta. I dont function on scum target. I just die.

So now we're back to you townconfirming.

Hbthebattle posted...

No, I'm talking about your stated conflict with her role - that it creates an infinite loop if someone shoots at you and you target her.

Still creates an infinite loop imo.

Okay now I am worried about red.

Hb i am going to fucking strangle you.

Kirby321 posted...

Right, but wasn't your biggest argument about Lea's phony role was that it's passive rolecop in a setup with two Flavor Cops, a Watcher, and a Psychic? Lea's role is quite literally Psychic with passive Role Thief (or Role Mimic? Thief doesn't sound right in this context).

Yes I am playing devil's advocate atm.

Hbthebattle posted...

So now we're back to you townconfirming.

No. If I'm targetted for death and i target scum i just die.

It is why i left a hint in the first place.

No, it wouldn't. Scum shoots at you, you redirect the bullet to Lea, which sends the bullet back to the original sender.

I think Red meant that he dies when hiding behind scum if he gets targeted as the night kill.

Which checks out because if he breadcrumbed hiding behind Lea and ended up dead anyway, his flip would've revealed the details of how his role worked, and thus we'd conclude Lea was scum.

Red is right, the infinite loop checks out only if Lea is scum. If she's town, then it's a loop.
... But this info is coming up at an oddly specific time.

I am so glad Champs is mountainous this year. Not a single role in sight.

Hbthebattle posted...

No, it wouldn't. Scum shoots at you, you redirect the bullet to Lea, which sends the bullet back to the original sender.

Hb, I think you're taking the "reflects" thing too literally. Red said that his role works as "if he gets targeted by a kill, the person he hides behind dies instead".

There's no "return to sender" shenanigans here unless there's a town vig who tries to shoot Red, and Red hides behind them.
... Which doesn't make sense from a purely logical perspective but whatever lol

While we are all sharing. Lea you suggested you weren't vanilla for star wars. What are you then?

... Unless you meant to say that Lea would shoot Red in that scenario as scum?

Doesn't check out regardless.
If (Lea == Scum && Red.hideBehind(Lea) && Lea.kill(Red)) {
Red.die();
}

Comedy option lea and red are both scum and this is just an incredibly epic distancing plan hail Mary.

I won't lie I would be impressed.

Also trying not to talk role wording because Han warned us and I'm honestly not sure if that was directed at me/lea convo or not.