Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 11 - Puzzle League

(+) Yeah! (+)

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Also if you think ulti is scum you should 100% buy Lea btw.

You mean buying Lea as the lynch for today? Or buying that she's town? If the latter, could you elaborate? I don't think I recall Ulti and Lea interacting that much.

Though in Ulti's defense, the breadcrumbs he left are elaborate. It's difficult to fake something like that, and it's consistent given my Watcher claim came at the very tail-end of Day 3, long after Ulti made that initial breadcrumb. Plus, it'd be a dumb question to ask if Ulti usually says the word "save" so often lol

(Ngl, I'm still a little peeved that you chose me over Death, Ulti, especially since I haven't done anything "useful" besides out you as Doc, compared to Death who confirmed Sbell and Scare. But putting aside my competitive mindset, I'm sorry to hear about what you're going through)

So if Ulti is town, that would leave... Red and MZero as potential Role Thieves. But eh, screw it. I'm putting too much stock into this Thief nonsense. I'll champion a JC lynch.

... But if he's truthful about his role, I'm hesitant to vote in case of an early hammer. In any case, Red, Hb, it's clear what y'all are doing tonight, right?

(Though I'm kinda scared something is gonna go wrong with us being so transparent about our plan)

If we don't have a doctor we need a lot of roles to compensate for that gross lack of protection, essentially.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

If we don't have a doctor we need a lot of roles to compensate for that gross lack of protection, essentially.

I mean, good thing we have a Watcher, two Flavor Cops, a Psychic, a Mirror, and a Hider all in the same night, right? /s

Kirby, role thief doesn't work on Pokemon nights. We can lynch JC and worry about it tomorrow.

Well it turns out we don't have a hider in that he actually tells us anything!

UltimaterializerX posted...

Probably because you've been the most useless player in this entire game other than ScareChan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFpqbHUiabc

not if i nailed scum day 1

Posted in wrong topic oops

I was saying though that if Lea is scum she hinted that something went wrong with one of their kills (I think it may have been implied to be on me) by mentioning SK at some point. I pointed it out at the time as very suspicious lol

UltimaterializerX posted...

Watcher is the best scanning role other than like, detectives. I'm legitimately surprised you and Chris haven't been shot at.

I also don't know why Chris hasn't been shot yet, either, but redirecting me to a useless scan on JC during N4 was honestly a great idea. Redirecting a Cop (if Scum even had a redirection role on Star Wars nights) results in another confirmed townie. Keeping the Cop alive without roleblocking is just not a good long-term strategy, I would imagine, so it's no wonder Scum would chance a shot at killing Death.

Scum is likely gonna keep Hb alive until they can't Role Thief him any more for the same reason. Scum denies info to town through inconsistent roles like Tracker/Watcher. Being able to manipulate their scans easily makes them worthless compared to Cop, unless scum has a Framer (and even then, that's a huge gamble since a Cop on the loose just confirms townies left and right). It's pretty clear why scum is keeping some of the scanning roles alive if they can be easily manipulated, whereas Cop is much harder to inhibit without an outright roleblock.

In any case, I'll back off on believing that you're scum for now.

I think I was shot night 1 tbh. Between Ben saying igcd probably saved me (Ben can't resist) and Isquen being like "A SMART BG would have saved HB n1" I really think they shot me n1 lol

UltimaterializerX posted...

Would IGCD be alive had I saved him or you? I don't remember how the layers work for BG/Doc.

bg tends to just die if they choose right regardless of other things.

Kirby321 posted...

I also don't know why Chris hasn't been shot yet, either, but redirecting me to a useless scan on JC during N4 was honestly a great idea. Redirecting a Cop (if Scum even had a redirection role on Star Wars nights) results in another confirmed townie. Keeping the Cop alive without roleblocking is just not a good long-term strategy, I would imagine, so it's no wonder Scum would chance a shot at killing Death.

Scum is likely gonna keep Hb alive until they can't Role Thief him any more for the same reason. Scum denies info to town through inconsistent roles like Tracker/Watcher. Being able to manipulate their scans easily makes them worthless compared to Cop, unless scum has a Framer (and even then, that's a huge gamble since a Cop on the loose just confirms townies left and right). It's pretty clear why scum is keeping some of the scanning roles alive if they can be easily manipulated, whereas Cop is much harder to inhibit without an outright roleblock.

In any case, I'll back off on believing that you're scum for now.

they could just redirect them to previously scanned people <_<

UltimaterializerX posted...

##Unvote
##Vote: Justin

This is the logical play. I seriously doubt Han put a bastard role in a game this hyped, that he worked on for this long.

You'd be surprised because that is unfortunately my actual role but I don't disagree with lynching me as an objectively sound course of action to resolve ambiguity and get my role out of the game as I've mentioned.

However as I know that I'm town I have to insist that people lynch MZero/Lea, or possibly VA since he remains an unknown quantity. If either of MZero/Lea is lynched and is scum that isn't the role thief, then that clears me, and we're in a much stronger position informationally. I think you guys should listen to Kirby on that front. There's something to be gained by keeping me alive until at least next day because I can't possibly be the power role we're hunting.

I'm also inclined to give some credence to red's crackpot theory that Lea could be an auto-roleblocker because we haven't seen a deliberate RB on any of our town powers yet, yet we've had power claimed since D1. Unless scum has a jack of all trades with an RB that they used on Red, which I find unlikely in this weird split flavour/role setup.

I too would like to see a full MZero claim in any case.

Justin why didn't you claim sooner?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Justin why didn't you claim sooner?

I was kind of hoping that I would get shot but as the game went on that got increasingly less likely. As soon as I claim Hated Townie scum has incentive to keep me alive, and it would have essentially hijacked the discussion for the day as it has today.

Chaeix posted...

I was kind of hoping that I would get shot but as the game went on that got increasingly less likely. As soon as I claim Hated Townie scum has incentive to keep me alive, and it would have essentially hijacked the discussion for the day as it has today.

Why do you feel today has been hijacked? What has not been covered with enough detail for your liking? The floor is yours.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

If we don't have a doctor we need a lot of roles to compensate for that gross lack of protection, essentially.

and if we do

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Why do you feel today has been hijacked? What has not been covered with enough detail for your liking? The floor is yours.

I mean a significant portion of the discussion has now gone to strictly discussing my role. I'll grant you that it was misspoken in the sense that it's not necessarily to the detriment of other discussions, that's fair enough.

UltimaterializerX posted...

On top of what Chris asked, on what planet do you get shot among this player list before endgame? If that was the goal, why not like. claim a good power role or something?

Claiming power when I'm not power just results in baseless role speculation and the risk of exposing another town member who might counterclaim. I was already tracked nowhere for a night anyways. I figured sharing the truth would be helpful because it allows town to deal with my anti-town role as a known quantity. Maybe I wasn't creative enough in my thinking, and/or I'm just bad.

None of you are ever on remotely late and it sucks.

I think I hate the hoops required for Lea to be town the more I think about it.

It was kind of flying over my head with my own role, but we already had a Psychic flipped Pokemon side too.

But of course there is no one to talk to and solitude sucks.

And I'm starting to hate the very real possibility that the answer could just be "mzero" again because mzero really doesn't deserve that.

I'm not saying I've kind of mentally just assumed mzero is town because the "mzero is always scum" lore was getting too real, but my brain really wants mzero to be town.

Morning all.

I will be reviewing jc and Lea content sometime today. I am starting to become disquieted how everyone we want to vote this game is like 'it's for the best all good!' Even Ben did that day 2. Did they hold a mafia class for rolling over that I didn't get told about?

I never understanding rolling over.

But I'm pretty sure I go into a frothing rage every time someone so much as considers trying to murder me in a serious manner. It is either this or feel so non-threatened that I wont give the person the time of day. I don't think I have any in-between for this.

red13n posted...

I never understanding rolling over.

But I'm pretty sure I go into a frothing rage every time someone so much as considers trying to murder me in a serious manner. It is either this or feel so non-threatened that I wont give the person the time of day. I don't think I have any in-between for this.

'Red might not be town'

'I will end your whole career'

Checks out

Chaeix posted...

However as I know that I'm town I have to insist that people lynch MZero/Lea, or possibly VA since he remains an unknown quantity. If either of MZero/Lea is lynched and is scum that isn't the role thief, then that clears me, and we're in a much stronger position informationally. I think you guys should listen to Kirby on that front. There's something to be gained by keeping me alive until at least next day because I can't possibly be the power role we're hunting.

How does this clear you exactly?

*tilts head*

What he asked

Are you seeing what I'm seeing Chris

cause I think I see something

well you're the person in the suspect pool why don't you go ahead and say it, not like we really care what jc has to say about the matter now do we

JC is saying that he can't be thief because he didn't move N3 or whatever. Thus, if Lea or I are lynched, and are not the scum thief, he's cleared.

But wait, many of us have been operating under the assumption of a six man team, meaning that one scum flipping not thief means nothing because there would be three left

Theory: JC knows scum is only 5 deep and slipped this knowledge. Lea is also scum and was thinking SK because they have a small team.

Discuss

let's ctrl+f JC's user name and take a trip.

PunishedBen posted...

If Chaeix isn't town we lose. First time scum is diabolical

PunishedBen posted...

Plum has no sense of time because scum discord started before the game started.

And Isquen posted a ":emote:" which is a discord emote because he's used to posting on Scum discord.

Joke phase OFFICALLY OVER

Presented without comment.

Chaeix posted...

JC, would you say your gut on Kirby is more along the lines of pinging that something is weird, or that something is scummy? I feel there's a distinct difference, and Kirby triggered the first a lot but avoided the second entirely in the single game I played with him.

Just pinged something weird for the most part but I don't see why it can't necessarily be both? Hard to know when I don't know him at all (I have in my notes that he could just be enthusiastically analytical) but I appreciate the input

JC responding to a query by scum Sheep

Chaeix posted...
While I agree that Kirby's overexplanatory posts are giving off extreme tryhard vibes which rub the wrong way, I don't really like plum's reaction by going and comparing to a post from a previous game from a different day in the game. Are we expecting there to be good analysis and content as opposed to contrived comments? Definitely not. So honestly I don't really like either of them from that exchange.

I like chang calling out plum on what I said above though. Doesn't contribute to a read, but I like his logic.

JC not liking town and likely town but does like town calling out town.

Chaeix posted...
Lea's claim isn't worth reading into but I agree that we shouldn't be testing it today, Sultan's vote on Chris is a nulltell, and I generally agree with Lopen on his read of you. No comments on Ben or ViolentAbacus yet.

I'm not really into pulling contrived thoughts out of my ass and I'm not going to be overreading into things when there's no contextualizing information from a lynch yet this game.

posting without comment.

Chaeix posted...

Frankly, I felt uncomfortable about the train/dogpile on Isquen. His posts were mostly null alignment to me, but seeing a bunch of people pile on a relatively new player on day 1 makes me feel a little bit... skeevy, I guess. I'm always suspicious of that sort of thing.

I thought Plum looked the worst because his reasoning for doing so was the weakest, and thus it felt the most like trying to jump on a train

I am not a huge fan of these posts from Hb, particularly labelling plum's vote as jumping on a train. Maybe it's just labelling things as trains when I semantically disagree with it but they have rubbed me the wrong way.

JC has a problem with town labelling town's vote as jumping on a train.

Chaeix posted...

Frankly, I felt uncomfortable about the train/dogpile on Isquen. His posts were mostly null alignment to me, but seeing a bunch of people pile on a relatively new player on day 1 makes me feel a little bit... skeevy, I guess. I'm always suspicious of that sort of thing.

I thought Plum looked the worst because his reasoning for doing so was the weakest, and thus it felt the most like trying to jump on a train

I am not a huge fan of these posts from Hb, particularly labelling plum's vote as jumping on a train. Maybe it's just labelling things as trains when I semantically disagree with it but they have rubbed me the wrong way.

"I am not disagreeing with the scanned town person, but he's doing it too."

Chaeix posted...
Hey, I'm just pointing out something worth pointing out. You come in offering very little substance and then call me tactical which has strong undertones of not offering much to work with. Of course I'm going to point out a pot-kettle-black situation for others' visibility.

but notably doesn't do much with it at any point.

he asked for thoughts on hb

Aww, I remember that time igcd tried to get corrik involved by voting me. I miss you more with each passing day, igcd.

JC has done an oddly good job of not talking about Sheep AND Isquen AND Ben so far into this re-read. Then he doesn't post the back half of topic 2

Chaeix posted...

I'm still not a tremendous fan of Hb, acknowledging that I have a limited argument there. Call it a flimsy argument, gut, or whatever you will, but the questioning of Lea and exchanges with Chris last topic didn't do anything to really assuage anything. Maybe it's that they're around and chiming in but I have no clue what their opinions are.

IGCD's persistence about building a Corrik wagon struck me as odd, as did his eagerness to jump off the train as soon as Chris put pressure on him. While I understand his reasoning that Corrik is being deliberately inactive and possibly detrimental to town, I don't really like using that reason as a justification for a lynch. It's almost like acknowledging a nulltell but voting him anyways.

I don't really get why everyone's labelled plum as town today. Something is pinging my gut about plum.

Ben kind of confuses me not because he has me at the bottom of his scum list, but because I'm at the bottom of his scum list and I don't think he has mentioned my name once leading up to that? To be honest this applies to the entirety of the bottom of the list. It feels thrown together. Throw me a bone Ben, or a vote, and explain why myself, Ulti, and (now) Arti are at the bottom of your list. Also, with Lopen being replaced by Arti has that moved Arti anywhere around the list?

Is there any reasoning behind the Sheep votes other than the potential inconsistency surrounding his claim-don't-claim thoughts? I haven't seen anything that rubs me the wrong way in his posts and I don't really like Lea jumping in with a meme vote, if it is in fact a meme vote. Lea what are your actual thoughts on Sheep?

So topic 3 and this is the content everyone missed that I defended as being content. It is in fact content but like

Mentions Ben and Sheep in very passive manners here. Like reading the Sheep case as like the last thing I said about Sheep and not the complete burial I did on Sheep is a little bit weird!

suspected town hb. suspected town igcd. suspected town plum. Kind of missing the forest for the trees with ben and sheep. Could just be really bad luck but it certainly doesn't help.

Chaeix posted...

He was around early and iirc put some pressure on Kirby (and allegedly Isquen according to Hb) and since then has effectively said 'i had the same read as chris, ##sheep' and then posted beauty and the beast lyrics which Lea jumped onto.

I don't care what jc says this sounds like such bitter scum lol. I am about out of characters now but needless to say day 1 jc has nothing to go look at and go "oh yeah in hindsight this is good."

MZero posted...

JC is saying that he can't be thief because he didn't move N3 or whatever. Thus, if Lea or I are lynched, and are not the scum thief, he's cleared.

But wait, many of us have been operating under the assumption of a six man team, meaning that one scum flipping not thief means nothing because there would be three left

Theory: JC knows scum is only 5 deep and slipped this knowledge. Lea is also scum and was thinking SK because they have a small team.

Discuss

Now what if I said this is an illusion? Isquen's final act was to talk about a serial killer after he was caught. Now JC, in the lead and resigned to his fate, 'slips' that there are only five scum. Mmm... now what would that lead town to do if say JC is lynched and then by some MIRACLE the next scum we catch is in fact a role thief. Or perhaps JC is the role thief. We have said to ourselves 'a-ha!" but then the game continues. We have supposedly correctly lynched JC based off this slip, and yet the game continues... what could this mean!? Could the innocent scans really be CULT LEADERS WHO SCAN INNOCENT!?

(Scare maybe seriously baby boy why)

I think this was a coordinated intentional thing if JC is indeed scum. Which I find no proof to say otherwise. He knows he is cooked and he is doing the only thing he can to try to help his team.

That's my read on it.

Either way always scum because why would town be thinking of 5 lol

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Now what if I said this is an illusion? Isquen's final act was to talk about a serial killer after he was caught. Now JC, in the lead and resigned to his fate, 'slips' that there are only five scum. Mmm... now what would that lead town to do if say JC is lynched and then by some MIRACLE the next scum we catch is in fact a role thief. Or perhaps JC is the role thief. We have said to ourselves 'a-ha!" but then the game continues. We have supposedly correctly lynched JC based off this slip, and yet the game continues... what could this mean!? Could the innocent scans really be CULT LEADERS WHO SCAN INNOCENT!?

(Scare maybe seriously baby boy why)

I think this was a coordinated intentional thing if JC is indeed scum. Which I find no proof to say otherwise. He knows he is cooked and he is doing the only thing he can to try to help his team.

That's my read on it.

Fair

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Either way always scum because why would town be thinking of 5 lol

Even fairer

UltimaterializerX posted...

But here's my $64,000 rebuttal - Can scum have two godfathers in this setup? Because Scare's activity level is just laughably unacceptable and I'm starting to get paranoid he's sitting back in hopes town just kills themselves.

anyone remember what nights death said his scans were on?

Obellisk posted...

anyone remember what nights death said his scans were on?

1/3

DoomTheGyarados posted...

1/3

so that would put 2 godfathers on SW nights.

if ultis theory has merit.

of course in my broken brain this is just ulti projecting his own role. since Dooku could totally rep a godfather role.

Anyway. I see that JC slip and it's not bad. So we kill it.

Well godfather wouldn't do any good on the nights there is no cop tbh.

It's why isquen claimed miller when no one claimed miller day one.

But also all signs point to scare just being dead weight we've got to drag across the finish line. My arms are strong enough though, I got you scare.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Well godfather wouldn't do any good on the nights there is no cop tbh.

right, that makes sense. Wasn't thinking that far.

I think a lot of my snap reads were right.

I think ben and sheep oops'd and gave mzero too much town credit to be buddies with him.

I think Sheep was desperately looking for something to not like about me so when I gave a list of 'sheep/ben/scare' sheep phrasing it as "I DIDN'T LIKE THE LIST FROM CHRIS WITH SCARE ON IT" is epic in scare's favor lol.

Abacus has seemed okay imo. I have liked his posts but we're starting to get to the point of the game where that may not be enough. He reacted similarly to Sheep as JC. He has done things I think 'oh that's town' but we're getting down to it.