Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 11 - Puzzle League

(+) Yeah! (+)

You are never disallowed from saying what your role should result in. But also I don't think you need to resort to quoting anything to explain it either.

If Red's on the table for a lynch, perhaps a full claim is in order? Would this be a good idea?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Actually I think red's role is strongly powerful protection now that hb says it that way. I get to hide behind whoever I want. If it is scum and they target me I have just killed scum with no downside.

That does have the chance to be brutally broken. But it is niche.

Hm

If this is how it works why would you claim Hider at all? You become less likely to be shot with that claim. It's essentially your goal to be shot instead

Fastbreak posted...

If this is how it works why would you claim Hider at all? You become less likely to be shot with that claim. It's essentially your goal to be shot instead

Keep reading red is adlibbing on how much he tells us lol

Fastbreak posted...

If this is how it works why would you claim Hider at all? You become less likely to be shot with that claim. It's essentially your goal to be shot instead

Red only claimed in response to Lea. I doubt he had plans to claim if he didn't feel so strongly about the loop thing.

I don't think red should be an option today. I think it is either Lea or let the situation lay for a night and sort someone else.

Scare quoting someone that quoted someone that was wrong. I'm really glad I'm about to be at work.

Leafeon13N posted...

Scare quoting someone that quoted someone that was wrong. I'm really glad I'm about to be at work.

Yes. You made it so easy to understand with how straight forward you were. Lol

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Yes. You made it so easy to understand with how straight forward you were. Lol

Just assume if hb said something he was wrong, tbh.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I don't think red should be an option today. I think it is either Lea or let the situation lay for a night and sort someone else.

How about a full claim from Mzero, since he only claimed his flavor IIRC?

I know I'm just asking for full claims left and right, but I feel like we're on the cusp of solving this game.

Leafeon13N posted...

Just assume if hb said something he was wrong, tbh.

Damn man he has been putting in good effort this game did you have to do him like that.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Yes. You made it so easy to understand with how straight forward you were. Lol

Most of the complicated statements didn't come from my mouth.

Kirby321 posted...

How about a full claim from Mzero, since he only claimed his flavor IIRC?

I know I'm just asking for full claims left and right, but I feel like we're on the cusp of solving this game.

I am fine anyone everyones claims besides sbell scare and me.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Damn man he has been putting in good effort this game did you have to do him like that.

For what it's worth, this is reminding me of the Red who was on the receiving end of me constantly saying he was scum last game lol

Kirby321 posted...

For what it's worth, this is reminding me of the Red who was on the receiving end of me constantly saying he was scum last game lol

I have been pretty consistent about red being on my town list he has just done a few things that have confused me and I don't like it when really great players confuse me.

Still waiting for that jc is town case from someone btw

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I am fine anyone everyones claims besides sbell scare and me.

Aight @MZero you're claiming when you check this topic. Just making sure you're not gonna miss this post.

I don't think we need any more claims from anyone else now, though. Just MZero.

how many scum have you caused to be lynched this game red

My idea if we keep Lea alive is have red target. Have hb target. Have ulti and Kirby do whatever the fuck they want and see what we learn.

That feels kinda fool proof. Nice thing about having so much power late game is you get to do evil stuff like that to scum.

Hbthebattle posted...

how many scum have you caused to be lynched this game red

Hb this isn't a dick measuring contest. We are trying to win.

And I'm still unconvinced by red's claims!

Okay. Do you trust my opinion on red or not? If not draw me up the red scum team. Tell me what the play here is. Calmly go through it and give me what I am missing.

Hbthebattle posted...

how many scum have you caused to be lynched this game red

You are looking at it the wrong way for howthis game has gone.

How many scum have I caused to not get lynched?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

My idea if we keep Lea alive is have red target. Have hb target. Have ulti and Kirby do whatever the fuck they want and see what we learn.

That feels kinda fool proof. Nice thing about having so much power late game is you get to do evil stuff like that to scum.

Oh I completely forgot that Hb is Flavor Cop tonight. I was thinking something similar but with Red and I both targeting Lea, but that idea seemed stupid. Hb and Red targeting Lea offers a lot more flexibility. I like this plan.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Okay. Do you trust my opinion on red or not? If not draw me up the red scum team. Tell me what the play here is. Calmly go through it and give me what I am missing.

If Red is scum, Lea is almost certainly not. Thus, Lea's points against MZero having no ability are likely valid. Personally, I also think JC's role is also unlikely to exist, so he'd be my third. Red hasn't done much to tie himself to the MZero/JC/Abacus trio so that's likely where the scum would be.

so red has self protection.
Lea has self protection
bodyguard

AND A FULL TIME DOCTOR.

...

Hbthebattle posted...

If Red is scum, Lea is almost certainly not. Thus, Lea's points against MZero having no ability are likely valid. Personally, I also think JC's role is also unlikely to exist, so he'd be my third. Red hasn't done much to tie himself to the MZero/JC/Abacus trio so that's likely where the scum would be.

Do you feel strongly enough to possibly cascade issues though? What if Red is town What does that tell us? Is it always Lea? Do Lea and red scum teams have common members? Wouldn't it be best to go after those common members? Do you believe there exists any teams with neither red or Lea? Does that team share members with the other two theories?

Is anyone always scum? If so, why vote red?

Obellisk posted...

so red has self protection.
Lea has self protection
bodyguard

AND A FULL TIME DOCTOR.

...

Can't be overstated that this game has 21 people and 42 roles btw. Hard to meta this

I'm not saying he's for sure my vote. I am saying that he's been ridiculously aggressive for no real reason in a game where scum haven't been doing well. He also was most aggressive on the day I came in with a flavor scan on the first post.

Look, someone like JC is the safest lynch. I can agree with that. But the way red has been playing has triggered my scumdar pretty hard.

Hbthebattle posted...

I'm not saying he's for sure my vote. I am saying that he's been ridiculously aggressive for no real reason in a game where scum haven't been doing well. He also was most aggressive on the day I came in with a flavor scan on the first post.

Look, someone like JC is the safest lynch. I can agree with that. But the way red has been playing has triggered my scumdar pretty hard.

I agree. But having known red for over 20 years now (holy shit btw) sometimes he will get aggressive. Especially if he is feeling like he isn't being thought of in a good way. Red cares a lot about how others perceive him and it is easier to act annoyed and angry than hurt.

Now red has had his moments this game that male me question him. Like every once in awhile it feels a little bit performative but ultimately I trust my read of red. Until game circumstances tell me otherwise.

Leafeon13N posted...

Scare quoting someone that quoted someone that was wrong. I'm really glad I'm about to be at work.

I'm asking for clairification

Obellisk posted...

so red has self protection.
Lea has self protection
bodyguard

AND A FULL TIME DOCTOR.

...

Hmm. I'm in the sentiment if Lea is town ulti is probably not.

But also neither role claimed stops death on its own.

(Still feel it sets up an unsolvable infinite loop)

Leafeon13N posted...

Hmm. I'm in the sentiment if Lea is town ulti is probably not.

But also neither role claimed stops death on its own.

(Still feel it sets up an unsolvable infinite loop)

Hide mechanical usually go before regular night actions so Lea would die. Is how I would rule it. But I also post priority lists for my games.

To JC's credit, he didn't move on N3 when we know Role Thief was out and about. Could still be scum, but he's not the Thief who keeps stealing Hb's scans.

If Ulti is truthful about being Doc, then Hb will be pretty much unstoppable once we nail that Role Thief. Logically, this means Red or Mzero are the best candidates. Granted, if Lea is scum, Mzero as a scumbuddy doesn't make sense because why would you champion the lynch of your Role Thief perma-blocking the tracker. If Lea is scum, Red very likely isn't, either, which points to Ulti as being the remainder of the no-alibi-N1ers who could be the elusive Role Thief.

... But I really don't want to be the guy responsible for getting the Doc lynched if true. Perhaps I'm leaning too into this... especially since Lea was the one who brought up the "no motion" argument that could very easily be used against us. So if Lea is scum, maybe the Role Thief didn't move N1 after all, pointing to Abacus as the thief.

... I'm too obsessed with this Role Thief. Although that gambit with Lea during the nighttime would be a great tactic, I think I'd much rather just lynch her and use our informational roles for better ventures.

^That ended up being a ramble. My point was that JC is definitely not the Role Thief, so although he could still be scum, I think it's better to focus on people who could possibly be the Thief.

Role Thief ninja and we have all been trolled.

I am sorry for putting that into your head.

Kirby321 posted...

^That ended up being a ramble. My point was that JC is definitely not the Role Thief, so although he could still be scum, I think it's better to focus on people who could possibly be the Thief.

like someone who has admitted to getting up every night and we are unable to prove is being honest.

like let's be real here. do you kill Chris night 2 in a large game or steal his night action to see if he even has one and then just leave him alone when you prove he's vanilla?

I think if you think lea is scum you probably just don't lean into any of her theories because she knows things we don't to manipulate us. Then again at this stage bussing can for sure be a thing. Why go for mzero? Because you don't think she would. Scum at this juncture need 3 mislynches to win and 2 to get it to Mylo. We are ahead but any faltering can put us in a bad place which is why I am suggesting the prudent night action path. But it isn't the optimal one city has a low ceiling but a high floor. Which imo is what you should go with when ahead. It certainly is not audacious.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Hide mechanical usually go before regular night actions so Lea would die. Is how I would rule it. But I also post priority lists for my games.

This creates 2 hide mechanics and the possibility of host essentially lying to Lea.

Or me being able to die hiding behind Lea.

So many weird loopy scenarios that I think town/town would be a stretch.

Leafeon13N posted...

This creates 2 hide mechanics and the possibility of host essentially lying to Lea.

Or me being able to die hiding behind Lea.

So many weird loopy scenarios that I think town/town would be a stretch.

Lea being some roleblocker of doom is a lot less complex for the host. Doesn't make it right.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Lea being some roleblocker of doom is a lot less complex for the host. Doesn't make it right.

Oh i dont necessarily think this is right either. Called it crackpot theory for a reason.

I will make it clear I am only ok with Lea or jc lynches today btw. If we are resolving to me its always Lea over red. If we aren't that's chill and jc imo has very little going for him. Both to me have their advantages and their downsides.

Leafeon13N posted...

Oh i dont necessarily think this is right either. Called it crackpot theory for a reason.

If it is wrong what do you think blocked you.

Obellisk posted...

like someone who has admitted to getting up every night and we are unable to prove is being honest.

like let's be real here. do you kill Chris night 2 in a large game or steal his night action to see if he even has one and then just leave him alone when you prove he's vanilla?

You mean Night 1? That would explain why Hb didn't get his scan stolen that first night...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I think if you think lea is scum you probably just don't lean into any of her theories because she knows things we don't to manipulate us. Then again at this stage bussing can for sure be a thing. Why go for mzero? Because you don't think she would. Scum at this juncture need 3 mislynches to win and 2 to get it to Mylo. We are ahead but any faltering can put us in a bad place which is why I am suggesting the prudent night action path. But it isn't the optimal one city has a low ceiling but a high floor. Which imo is what you should go with when ahead. It certainly is not audacious.

Last time I trusted you, we killed town.
... That was a (bad) joke. In any case, I'll put aside my bloodlust for Ulti and Lea to make sure we don't falter here. Either way, I'm already theorycrafting all of the possible targets for who I will watch tonight based on the events that happen as the day goes. If scum gets in my way again, I will be a very angry puffball.

Last time you trusted me we heroically diverted from a town lynch.

Just to kill him the next day. But still.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I will make it clear I am only ok with Lea or jc lynches today btw. If we are resolving to me its always Lea over red. If we aren't that's chill and jc imo has very little going for him. Both to me have their advantages and their downsides.

... Wait so should we lynch Lea today or not? I'm getting mixed signals on here on whether we should keep her alive for the nighttime plan or kill her now.

I mean... Ninja Role Thief could be a thing. I don't want to believe it is, at least, but if it exists, then I suppose it could be JC. I'm just greedy and want to murder scum power. I still don't think JC is a worthwhile venture in that sense, but if he's scum, that's still a win.

Logically, Ulti is who I would want to lynch the most right now, but if we're going the "Lea could be bussing MZero right now" route, then MZero would be the safest. But at that point, we have so much linked back to Lea that we might as well lynch her for info.

There are three scum left Lea and jc could just be 2 of the 3 and both be right.

That's the fun of mafia we get one a day.

Also if you think ulti is scum you should 100% buy Lea btw.

just want to lynch Ulti more after that absurd breadcrumb post

I mean I guess we can lynch ulti if we want to just do random things. If you really insist confirmed town sbell. Leader sbell. Who is supposed to set an example for the community sbell. Cough.

Cough.

Cough I say