Board 8 > Which non-OT Star Wars movie is your favorite?

(+) Yeah! (+)

GuessMyUserName posted...

B8 memed highground since day 1 tbf

That's fair, I forgot that one

Xeybozn posted...

We have meme culture now, but there aren't really any memes based on ST lines. Either the PT dialogue was different in some way or we're gonna see a ton of ST memes after the kids who grew up on them take over internet culture. I think it's the former.

Eh, I wouldn't be surprised if the latter happens when kids who watched the sequels have nostalgia for them when they get older. The sequels have meme-worthy lines out there ("MORE!" "Every single word in that sentence was wrong," among others).

Xeybozn posted...

We have meme culture now, but there aren't really any memes based on ST lines. Either the PT dialogue was different in some way or we're gonna see a ton of ST memes after the kids who grew up on them take over internet culture. I think it's the former.

I mostly feel like this is a matter of right time, right place, though. People just weren't receptive to the ST in the same way, for some reasons in its control, and for some reasons not in its control (i.e. happening in the late 10's instead of the early 00's)

i wonder how our teenage humour held up

https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/High_ground

... this page could certainly use some embedding

Leonhart4 posted...

Eh, I wouldn't be surprised if the latter happens when kids who watched the sequels have nostalgia for them when they get older. The sequels have meme-worthy lines out there ("MORE!" "Every single word in that sentence was wrong," among others).

also I'm glad someone could think of ST memes because I was struggling to think of them but I know they exist (haven't seen the movies in a while)

I cant really think of memorable ST dialogue thats memorable in the same kind of way stuff like high ground and unlimited power are, but in fairness I really hated 2/3 of them so that could be part of why. Id probably watch a 2-3 hour Jar Jar movie before Id even consider rewatching 8 or 9

"Traitor!" guy from TFA was memed pretty hard for a while. Not sure about much else.

Evillordexdeath posted...

I think it comes from Lucas' theatrical dialog. The original Star Wars is one of the most frequently quoted movies in pop culture because so many of the lines are just silly, and the prequels retain that, which is why they're so ripe for memes. I can quote a bunch of lines from the prequels off the top of my head - "A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one," "Now THIS is podracing," "I don't think the system works," "I don't like sand," "Not just the men, but the women and the children," "Hello there/General Kenobi!" the entire Darth Plagueis speech, "It's treason, then," (basically ANYTHING said by Palpatine in all 3 movies, in fact,) but the Disney movies? I can only remember a few lines that are just incredibly bad. A lot of the quotable lines from the prequels are bad but funny, but the sequel lines I can think of are just bad. "You were always scum." "Rebel scum?" is one of the worst one-liners I've ever seen in a completed movie - the only impression it leaves is that the writers couldn't think of anything better.

I almost agree with this -- except I don't think the prequels have the OT's great dialogue either. IIRC most of the best OT lines were improvised by the actors, not written by Lucas. The PT has memorable dialogue but it's mostly memorable just because it's really stilted and bad, whereas the OT's dialogue felt like real, witty, people talking to each other.

(Also, I think you're underselling the ST - or at least TFA - here. It has some good, memorable lines and also some very, very silly ones.)

Yeah I mean I think I could agree with the notion that PT sells it dialog in a much hammier, almost shakespearian (badly) sort of way, whereas ST tries to go for a more natural sort of vibe (big scare quotes around that of course, nobody in movies talk how people in real life do), which could definitely lead to the PT lines being more memorable/memeable

Force Awakens

Though the sequel trilogy was a mess overall, there's no denying how much I loved TFA when I saw it on opening night.

Leonhart4 posted...

Eh, I wouldn't be surprised if the latter happens when kids who watched the sequels have nostalgia for them when they get older. The sequels have meme-worthy lines out there ("MORE!" "Every single word in that sentence was wrong," among others).

No one will meme ST lines because any funny line from the ST is done worlds better by a legion of Marvel movies written in a similar style. Why meme ST when you could just meme Marvel instead.

I'm not saying PT has excellent writing but a big part of why it's so memorable is because it's so distinctive. There aren't other movies that do it better, it's on its own ridiculous island.

And most of the good lines being improvised in the OT is revisionist history moreso than anything about the PT in here. Yes I know Harrison Ford did it but I could name probably dozens of lines that are more memorable than anything from the ST that weren't improv'd.

Eh, maybe. I don't think we've gotten memorable memes from the new Star Wars stuff people do like, such as Mandalorian (other than "This is the way" and "I have spoken"), so you could be right.

The Last Jedi > Rogue One > Revenge of the Sith

Might put the others on in the background if I come across them but yeah. (Haven't seen Solo, not terribly interested in rectifying that but maybe one day it'll be on and I'll have nothing else to do)

Leonhart4 posted...

I don't think we've gotten memorable memes from the new Star Wars stuff people do like, such as Mandalorian (other than "This is the way" and "I have spoken")

I mean you're saying The Mandalorian hasn't given us stuff but those are two more things than the entire ST has.

BUT I think the Mandalorian is closer to the old Star Wars stuff in its charm honestly and that's why you can meme stuff from it. The Mandalorian did a lot of stuff right. I don't consider it the same as the ST-- doesn't feel like diet Marvel to me at all.

Lopen posted...

I mean you're saying The Mandalorian hasn't given us stuff but those are two more things than the entire ST has.

I mean I've seen memes of the two examples I provided from the ST as well

Baby Yoda himself became a meme but it's not based on anything from the script itself so I don't know how to treat that

Memes exist for a lot of things but nothing from the ST touches either of those Mandalorian quotes

I guess but I don't feel like they're that pervasive either

https://gfycat.com/warmheartedwelloffbird

I see/hear "this is the way" everywhere.

Though I could go into a lot of detail on why Mandalorian captures "Star Wars" essence that doesn't really factor memes in all that much. I just think the fact that it has more prolific ones than the ST kinda drives the point home.

III>RO>Solo>I>II>VII>>>>IX>>>>>>>VIII

I don't think I dislike any movie as much as I hate The Last Jedi.

>91 votes total
>0 votes for Attack of the Clones

good work everyone

TFA and it's not even close. It's the only one that really captures that magic from the OT, not just because of it's reliance on the OT aesthetic and nostalgia, but also because it features a likeable cast of characters going on individual journeys that culminate in a simple, fun ending.

Like there's only a handful of ST moments that really make me feel something, and one of them is Rey pulling the lightsaber out of the snow, with a mixed look of shock, apprehension, and determination as the Force Theme quietly swells. It's the most Star Wars-y moment of any movie since the OT.

If I had to rank them:

VII >>> VIII >>> RO > III > IX >>>> Solo >>>> I >>> II

Recently rewatched the entire Skywalker Saga with my brother who had never seen any of the movies outside of VII and VIII.

the force awakens. very flawed movie but it still did a lot of stuff right.

The Prequel Trilogy dialogue having 'soul' or whatever is absolute revisionist history. The memes sprung up because the dialogue was bad, the movies are now old enough to be nostalgic (despite being very bad), and everyone in our generation has watched it. People are not happy in the slightest when it first came out.

With that said, Sequel Trilogy memes won't ever reach that level even after time passes because Star Wars simply isn't THE blockbuster event for a generation anymore. Marvel took that spot and is actually good, so unlike the Prequel Trilogy, Star Wars can't skate by on name brand alone anymore.

3

making the argument that the prequels are more "soulful" or "memorable" than the sequels seems like a weird way to make excuses for their terribleness (at least TPM and AotC).

as rob walker said: "i remember getting a root canal. doesn't mean it was good."

Maybe they mean they're "soulful" as in they're dead.

I don't think they're soulful, but I do grant that they're unique in a way that only the PT can ever really deliver

swordz9 posted...

In a good or bad way? I saw all of them for the first time when I watched them back in 2019 other than Episode 1 and 2 which I saw as a kid and didnt remember so I had no bias.

In a good way, yeah! I agreed on every single placement.

And it wasn't intended as an "incredible diss", I like swordz, we just tend to have different opinions on things like this so I was surprised.

Theres a lot of confusion about the memes here. Generally speaking, the memes dont happen because the lines are bad, unless its truly remarkable eg the sand line. The memes happen because the lines are GOOD. This is why therere almost no Episode I/II memes but almost everything in Episode III was not only memed, but became a meme straight away. Because the dialogue is working on the level of memorability and emotion of something like an opera, which is what the film intended. The purpose is not to have extremely witty, clever dialogue but rather dialogue that works on that simple, effective, dramatic level which is why Episode IIIs dialogue is good, actually.

KamikazePotato posted...

The Prequel Trilogy dialogue having 'soul' or whatever is absolute revisionist history. The memes sprung up because the dialogue was bad, the movies are now old enough to be nostalgic (despite being very bad), and everyone in our generation has watched it. People are not happy in the slightest when it first came out.

Again, no. This is actually the revisionist take. Episode III was well-received at release, getting an 80% on Rotten Tomatoes, a 7.6 on IMDB and an A- Cinemascore. These are solid grades for any mainstream blockbuster. The general vibe in the fandom was positive for a long time. It was after that there was a bit of a turn when Star Wars was in the semi-wilderness years pre-Disney, and that was more just lumping it in with the other two prequels. Theres a reason, like I said, that Episode III has so many more memes than I or II., because it connected more with audiences on that memorable level.

Lets put it this way: If what you were saying was accurate, people would be memeing Michael Bays Transformers as those were more popular than Star Wars at the time and all the dialogue is absolutely dreadful.

I will say though, to a lesser extent Episodes I and II were well-received at release, need to make a post in another topic about that.

Lightning Strikes posted...

Because the dialogue is working on the level of memorability and emotion of something like an opera, which is what the film intended. The purpose is not to have extremely witty, clever dialogue but rather dialogue that works on that simple, effective, dramatic level which is why Episode IIIs dialogue is good, actually.

uh... no. to say RotS has dialogue on the level of an opera is an insult to operas, frankly. like, look at this:

Anakin Skywalker: You are so... beautiful.
Padm: It's only because I'm so in love.
Anakin Skywalker: No, it's because I'm so in love with you.
Padm: So love has blinded you?
Anakin Skywalker: [laughs] Well, that's not exactly what I meant.
Padm: But it's probably true.

are you seriously arguing that this is good writing?

Episode III was much better-received than I or II, but that was in spite of the dialogue, not because of it. The only memes I remember post-release were High Ground and No, and those were certainly not because people thought that was good writing.

Was unlimited power really not from right away.

Oh yeah I totally forgot UNLIMITED POWAAAAAH. That was a big one too.

Unlimited Power definitely was, only a Sith deals in absolutes, every line of dialogue in the opera scene I was on YTMND in 2005 that whole movie was memes.

Speaking of opera, my point was not that it is on the same quality level as (great) opera but that its speaking in the same way eg high emotional concepts rather than logic or complexity. That Anakin/Padme exchange (though not good) is an example of this as its purely focused on making the emotion of the characters explicit.

Lightning Strikes posted...

Speaking of opera, my point was not that it is on the same quality level as (great) opera but that its speaking in the same way eg high emotional concepts rather than logic or complexity. That Anakin/Padme exchange (though not good) is an example of this as its purely focused on making the emotion of the characters explicit.

either i don't get why you're making this point or you're backpedaling now. because in your previous post, you said multiple times that you consider the dialogue in RotS to be good.

I do consider the dialogue in RotS to be good on the whole. Lines like Unlimited POWAH are effectively conveying what they are trying to do. They just cant all be winners. Tbh I think if it were in service of a better romance that scene you posted would not be that bad anyway.

well, i remember a lot of the dialogue in RotS being pretty bad. but i haven't seen it in a long time, to be fair. i guess i should see it again sometime.

also, the dialogue in the OT can get pretty bad as well, in all fairness.

Most bad dialogue scenes in RotS has Anakin in them. Though sometimes it might just be because he has a hard time delivering them.

There is bad dialogue in the PT.
There's is also good dialogue in the PT.

There are some good performances in the PT. McDiarmid has already been lauded in this topic. And then you have people like Natalie Portman who were developing in TPM but still had some good delivery, then was sunk in mostly every scene she shared with Anakin, but separate still delivered some good stuff ("this is how democracy does - with thunderous applause").

Anyway, this is a long way to say that only a Sith deals in absolutes.

KamikazePotato posted...

Episode III was much better-received than I or II, but that was in spite of the dialogue, not because of it. The only memes I remember post-release were High Ground and No, and those were certainly not because people thought that was good writing.

Episode III was better-received partially for being darker than its direct predecessors and also more action-packed. In hindsight not hard to see TFA initially getting so much praise for continuing this trend while also excising much of what people hated about the prequel trilogy, only to notice there was little of substance in the long run.

At least the people in this thread saying TFA/TLJ are terrible aren't politicizing the matter or making dumb nitpicks.

RO > 3 > 1 > 7 > Solo > 9 > 2 >>>>>>> 8

It's still so fascinating to me how polarizing TLJ is. I personally thought it was enjoyable to watch as it happened so long as you didn't think too hard. I've found that a lot of "purists" hated the direction it took, which was a direct result of their complaints that TFA was "too formulaic." The fandom showed that they didn't want to be pleased by anything. And then the ending happened and pleased virtually nobody.

I try to enjoy things for what they are and I really appreciated them taking a risk on TLJ after playing it safe. The only hilarious dialogue I remember was Leia telling Poe "get your head out of your cockpit." I actually enjoyed Rose as a character (why did she get so much hate?), though I didn't like how they nerfed what had made Rey a badass in TFA. I didn't like episode 9 very much because the idea of building a movie around repurposed footage is bad, and there was dumb shit like the completely pointless destruction of Kijimi. I enjoyed the action sequences even if the movie was a major disappointment in the writing department.

I'm sure most people can say they enjoyed Rogue One, however.

RO > 8 > 7 > 3 >>>> 9 > 1 > 2

I haven't seen any of the prequel trilogy in like 20 years and haven't seen Solo at all. Will fix that soon.

It felt like Episode III was lauded because it was clearly better than I and II, and Star Wars fans were glad to have a movie that didn't definitively suck.

Leonhart4 posted...

It felt like Episode III was lauded because it was clearly better than I and II, and Star Wars fans were glad to have a movie that didn't definitively suck.

Hot (?) take - this is also what happened with Episode VII following the PT.

KamikazePotato posted...

Hot (?) take - this is also what happened with Episode VII following the PT.

This is probably a fair take, too, although I can still watch VII and VIII and enjoy them. Episode III, I'm fine with just consuming via Palpatine memes.

Leonhart4 posted...

It felt like Episode III was lauded because it was clearly better than I and II, and Star Wars fans were glad to have a movie that didn't definitively suck.

yeah, this. because III was so much better than I and II, fans seemed to be extremely lenient towards it, ignoring that the movie has a lot of glaring flaws of its own.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

The fandom showed that they didn't want to be pleased by anything.

Well, a lot of people enjoyed TFA but not TLJ and vice versa, generalizing the fandom like that is not exactly fair. This is just what happens when the fanbase is large enough to be loud about any point no matter how big a percentage agrees with the point.

It's also not fair to organize criticism of the movie into a single camp. Some people dislike it for having tons of wasted screentime, treating its characters like shit, following TFA's lead in stepping on the legacy of the OT even more in some ways. Or actual shit reasons like 'sexism' but these people should be ignored and lambasted.

Just like there are plenty of reasons people do like the film. Some people will just love all Star Wars, some find it easy to forgive swathes of it in favor of sequences they like, some just dislike Star Wars and mistakenly think that TLJ is the counterculture option, etc...

Voted TLJ but kinda wish I voted Rogue One to tie with Episode 3. Either way those are my top 3, and I oscillate between The Last Jedi and Rogue One a lot. Both brilliant. TLJ does completely ruin VII through IX as a trilogy, but I put that blame on Rise of Skywalker walking everything back, not it for having the balls to do something different.

Also echoing the "why does Solo have a single vote" sentiment