Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 7 - The Mafia Strikes Back

(+) Yeah! (+)

You have my full attention, chang

Hbthebattle posted...

Wait hold the fuck on

Didnt you claim the reason you jumped on me was because you thought there werent any Power/Power or Vanilla/Vanilla in the game?

That was Isquen, I believe.

Oh

oops

never mind, this is why I shouldnt scumhunt right after waking up

Post 173 on Topic 6

Isquen posted...

##vote: Hbthebattle
I know this one looks odd, but hear me out, or correct me if I'm wrong: every other town person is vanilla/(some other role.) And both scum flips have been double power. I have not heard from any vanilla/vanilla or power/power yet.

MZero posted...

My first post was calling Ulti scum and my second post was calling Isquen scum

can you point me to the prodding?

Yes, you did.

Which is odd when you had to be prodded by Lea to provide anything on the main topic that has dominated most of the day. I'm sure you remember since I think you made more posts in that instance than I've seen in the game so far.

You called those two scum. So are you going to vote them or apply any pressure? SBell sure has tried!

Also, since you think Ulti is scum, what is your opinion on post 437 of last topic by Kirby?

I messed with the quotes at the end so it let me do this all in one post, sorry for the formatting there

DoomTheGyarados posted...

So I am filtering my lens for this read through to "Chris voted scum early day one, then he voted scum, then oh he voted scum a third time what a great day for Chris' to see if viewing chang as scum makes sense with an 'unkind'/harsh filter that I would normally save for later days because I am disquieted about the arti lynch.

So after I flip shall we attribute this mislynch to heat check overconfidence / confirmation bias? I think that's probably more fair than saying you still can't read me after 3(?) games together and 1 as host. And I still don't think you're scum so that's out for me.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Boy, does this look bad in hindsight. Ben was already kind of making me think 'hm', I was in my final form in a way that this man has never seen, and Corrik/Isquen didn't have a solid foundation at all. This post, really, is just completely without foundation isn't it?

At the time I posted this you had just asked for psychic reads from everyone which is well within your wheelhouse imo. Your ascension to final form hadn't begun yet. It's true that I was completely wrong about Ben, but I was so wrong about him last game that I shot him dead night 1. Sure, I picked some really strange word choice here but does scum me really try and stick out like this? Cmon.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I stand by this statement.

The chart will make its triumphant return next game and every game following. What's unfortunate is that while I am fairly good at confirming myself as an actionable role, I am apparently very poor at working to confirm myself as vanilla. This will be worked on. But stamping "Mislynched by Sir Chris" on v2.0 of the chart for next game will be an excellent carte blanche to justify any unhinged or strange behavior next game that I so choose. So thank you for that.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Does chang seem like the type of guy who doesn't post exactly whatever the fuck he wants? Dude's got a mouth on him. Dude shoots night one as vig. But here he felt compelled to give me my post ASAP and push aside his thoughts on flavor. Additionally, if we're really twisting the knife... scum would technically have more reason to ask where are the pokemon than town as they know they are all star wars and everyone is talking about not being pokemon and their d1 safelist would be all star wars. Also this excuse just doesn't pass the smell test. I asked for 5 random names and that pushes back a post? It's actually really flimsy I was just distracted by murdering other scum to think it through day 1 and 2. If chang is scum I literally went from Scum A to Scum B to Scum C back to scum B and then one more time to scum C. This would please me.

I'm sorry I...complied with your request? I literally don't have anything else to say that I didn't say at the time. But this is really justification to lynch me? That I got distracted?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Changmas is a good player who gives thoughts to things. The post about red was far and away his most substantial post in topic 3 and it is thrown away like a joke as soon as someone refutes it in any way.

I rarely, if ever, give real substance to posts on Day 1. Unless it is to defend someone who's been jumped on for an arbitrary reason. (absolutely not touching a counterclaim though).

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Ben claimed Luxray at 07:07:23

Chang came in with kill it kill it at at 07:09:19. Giving Chang less than two minutes to see the post, cross check the flavor, cross check the naming conventions, and then post saying to kill it.

Except as I explained in topic... Ben had already changed his flavor to me night one. Scum chang, obviously, knows this and knows this observation will be rendered moot.

So now I've committed the crime of...having too good a memory and being too interested in flavor/portmanteaus? I didn't have to cross-check anything. Flavor is like, literally the thing I'm playing for on Day 1 (and 2 in this case because it flipped). If I don't have all of that on instant recall there is something wrong with my young brain.

DoomTheGyarados posted.
Rule of 3 lol

Isquen is gonna be Rule of 3'd like 8 times when I flip.

DoomTheGyarados posted
Chang has done nothing and has frankly a lot of his scum reads are very bad in hindsight.

Revisit this tomorrow please. Not the done nothing part. That's kinda true honestly. Didn't think I needed to do much until you were gone. *shrugs*

Okay between Fire Emblem Awakening and this game I clearly have not improved at defending myself to Chris one bit. So be it. If this didn't move the needle whatsoever, just tell me now and I will type up my full post-mortem now and move on with my day.

ViolentAbacus posted...

Also to Arti, I didn't think being the 15th person to say "Two cops? That's not right" would be conductive to the conversation when I didn't have anything new to add. Now I still don't believe that there are two cops on one night, but I'm fine to leave that if the more experienced players are since they think it's a possibility.

I just don't see making no comment about it when you were around the time it happened. You were there and posting, and instead commented on something else at the time. It's almost like you were avoiding the topic of myself all together.

Hbthebattle posted...

Didnt you claim the reason you jumped on me was because you thought there werent any Power/Power or Vanilla/Vanilla in the game?

That was Isquen

Noted the attempted appeal to ego in your first refutation, thankfully I have lynched both enough scum and mislynched enough town not to bite on that.

I don't know what scum you does or doesn't do, but given the games you played with me I don't believe me posting like I did was in my wheelhouse.

I don't have much to comment on your other points, but may I ask if you still suspect JC and why?

Town (in no order)
Changmas
HB - no reason to distrust his claims
Isquen - looks like standard isquen
Plum - far cry from the plum of last game, feel good about him
Mzero - good luck brother
Chris - unlucky you got caught up in the perfect game, still think it's too unlikely that he threw sheep and ben under the bus just to clear himself to eventually get rule 1'd anyway
Ulti - this hits town ulti for me, bad logic, earnestly solving, etc.
Abacus - idk man i think he's just

Town lean
Lea - logic is sound, didn't take issue with the random things other people seemed to (being against lists? wtf)
Kirby - doesn't look like a different kirby to me from last game, albeit with less information to go off of.
Death - look man i can't read this guy ever but he seems good for the spectrum of scum leaning to scum that I usually have him at so i'm working on adjusting to that
Sultan - prostitute claim is really the only thing i have going for him

???
Scare - hasn't said anything except to push me
Red - mostly same

Scum
JC - also has been quite inactive but has been pushing me over and over to call me out for my lack of content when he's been arguably just as bad. Perhaps projecting very hard.
Arti - for reasons i have already outlined and that many of you likely share

BUT

the main thing I want to say is that this is the group of 6 people who has pushed for me most heavily:

there are two scum in this list guaranteed. as you may refer to my initial posting of the MS Paint diagram I will never be mislynched solely by town alone. (for reference - pushed by MZero (Scum) in FE:A mafia, Ulti (scum)/Corrik (neutral) in Elden Ring mafia, Han (scum) in Discusses Mafia)

JC
Scare
Isquen
Red
Arti
Chris

Please please honor my last request and focus on this group moving forward. Good luck.

Ah good. Well if you feel like trying, all you have to do to convince me that you may possibly be town is show me your posts in this game that have as much thought and care put into them as these:

I'm still not a tremendous fan of Hb, acknowledging that I have a limited argument there. Call it a flimsy argument, gut, or whatever you will, but the questioning of Lea and exchanges with Chris last topic didn't do anything to really assuage anything. Maybe it's that they're around and chiming in but I have no clue what their opinions are.

IGCD's persistence about building a Corrik wagon struck me as odd, as did his eagerness to jump off the train as soon as Chris put pressure on him. While I understand his reasoning that Corrik is being deliberately inactive and possibly detrimental to town, I don't really like using that reason as a justification for a lynch. It's almost like acknowledging a nulltell but voting him anyways.

I don't really get why everyone's labelled plum as town today. Something is pinging my gut about plum.

Ben kind of confuses me not because he has me at the bottom of his scum list, but because I'm at the bottom of his scum list and I don't think he has mentioned my name once leading up to that? To be honest this applies to the entirety of the bottom of the list. It feels thrown together. Throw me a bone Ben, or a vote, and explain why myself, Ulti, and (now) Arti are at the bottom of your list. Also, with Lopen being replaced by Arti has that moved Arti anywhere around the list?

Is there any reasoning behind the Sheep votes other than the potential inconsistency surrounding his claim-don't-claim thoughts? I haven't seen anything that rubs me the wrong way in his posts and I don't really like Lea jumping in with a meme vote, if it is in fact a meme vote. Lea what are your actual thoughts on Sheep?

Gold medal observations. It doesn't really mean anything anyways though because no matter what I do next you could read into it to serve your read. If I don't offer anything of substance you say that I continue to lurk, and if I start posting substance you can go 'oh look now that there's pressure he's doing something, how tactical'.

You do have the ability to ask me questions though! I would encourage that even if I might not have well developed thoughts.

In fact I'll ask you one. I'm curious if you or anyone else has any thoughts on Hb. I commented last topic that I didn't really like his labelling everything as a train, and it feels like he's offered nothing since going for that low hanging fruit other than a mild defense of Kirby's various reads.

And

For some reason I thought he commented specifically on the Kirby train with his comments about plum, but he didn't actually call that a train. And plum only jumped on Kirby the next page, so I don't actually know what I was thinking there but I'll own that error since I called it plural trains last topic too.

That being said, this is what appears to be plum jumping on the Isquen train: (the person in question provides quotes to back up their idea)

Lea's claim isn't worth reading into but I agree that we shouldn't be testing it today, Sultan's vote on Chris is a nulltell, and I generally agree with Lopen on his read of you. No comments on Ben or ViolentAbacus yet.

I'm not really into pulling contrived thoughts out of my ass and I'm not going to be overreading into things when there's no contextualizing information from a lynch yet this game.

and

Well you have to bear in mind my position of coming in after not playing for eons, and having no context on how people play. Look at the nature of all the discussion so far - it's a lot of 'X normally does this' or 'Y didn't do this in the most recent game'. I have none of that triangulating information. Fortunately for both of us, there's lots of people who have history in recent mafia games who are able to chime in meaningfully in that sense.

And

I'm not a huge fan of Ulti, while I remember very little from past games since it's been so long, I've been on the receiving end of various Ulti tirades before when he was misguided town. I'm not seeing the same kind of commanding zeal that I'm used to, and SBell's comparison to FE Mafia makes sense to me. And his flavour vote on Corrik quite frankly felt somewhat illogical, and I give him more than enough credit to be able to know that the Mewtwo flavour thing wasn't worth reading into.

I wasn't really hot on VA but then he asked his really innocent questions about neighborizer and bussing. Would a newbie scum player who doesn't know what those kinds of interactions are ask the town or ask his scumboard? I don't want to read into things too much but they seem like questions in earnest.

I think changmas has been around but offering very little - e.g. a good analysis, but void of content, in post 94 of topic 5, which raises red flags for me in conjunction with Sheep conveniently omitting him from the list of names that weren't on Isquen's list (for the record Isquen, I was questioning Sheep's analysis of your list, and not the list itself). I also don't get the flavour counterclaim since it's flavour counterclaiming Chris' guess of what his flavour actually is? My biggest asterix here is that if Ben is in fact scum, it would seem weird for him to just go "chang is town for defending me" (how I interpreted him). 'THANK YOU MY SCUMBUDDY YOU ARE NOW TOWN' just kind of rubs me wrong so I suppose we'll have to see what Ben flips since it seems like he's got the momentum today.

Ben, could you please elaborate on why I am more scummy than the other lurkers? You're either completely absent a read, or basically stating that your uncertainty about me makes me scummy, neither of which is particularly logical. While I agree with chang's defense of him about it being difficult to scumhunt while you're constantly on the back foot as Ben has been, I think there have been ample opportunities to contemplate and offer more, and while I'm perfectly find with people suspecting me, I just don't view 'unknown' as a good reason to call someone scum and lurker applies to far more people than just myself.

I also like plum pointing out people skating by this game and pointing a finger towards MZero. He's said remarkably little when he's been around and his day 2 activity strikes me as odd considering he came in Day 1 with at least a few reads before voting Isquen. MZero are you still suspicious of Isquen considering that you finished the last day on him?

I accept that I likely can't change anyone's minds because I'm terrible at advocating for myself and I'm going to be mislynched here. Chris I hope you remember this and further adjust your read of me for the future.

I'll pop in and out to answer any final questions or thoughts regarding the game but you may hammer me whenever you like. I don't really have much to add of my own volition beyond the above post.

Thanks for a great game everyone and see you in the dead town chat.

Interesting that you missed Sbell in your list, Chang
(I guess he is so town he exceeds the very top!)

htaeD posted...

Interesting that you missed Sbell in your list, Chang
(I guess he is so town he exceeds the very top!)

oh i knew I deleted someone accidentally when i was arranging it. you can consider him in the ??? category. far too concerned with ulti.

I... I was just getting warmed up though <_<

Yeah I have to say I am kinda disappointed that this was all Chang.
No hard feelings, but I expected some anger.

tbh i felt exactly this resigned and sullen in FE:A mafia when you went after me then and I almost just gave up in that game too but I had Ben advocating for me then and today I have no one. So I don't really have that fire in me today all on my own.

And flipping town will do more for my reads and suggestions than I could ever do myself this game with the air of suspicion that would haunt my every step if I somehow managed to fight out of this mislynch.

Hm. Well to be honest I don't think asking for references to you being more substantive than your main scum suspect is asking a lot when you call him inactive and if that's too high bar to clear for you not sure what I can do here.

changmas posted...

tbh i felt exactly this resigned and sullen in FE:A mafia when you went after me then and I almost just gave up in that game too but I had Ben advocating for me then and today I have no one. So I don't really have that fire in me today all on my own.

And flipping town will do more for my reads and suggestions than I could ever do myself this game with the air of suspicion that would haunt my every step if I somehow managed to fight out of this mislynch.

I didn't notice because I was too busy being sullen on the scumside.
I suppose I can compare and contrast

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Hm. Well to be honest I don't think asking for references to you being more substantive than your main scum suspect is asking a lot when you call him inactive and if that's too high bar to clear for you not sure what I can do here.

I appreciate the fair fighting chance but my sense is that rather than a singular bar to jump over it feels more like the first hurdle in a 110m race and I am simply not up for that today. Apologies.

changmas posted...

I appreciate the fair fighting chance but my sense is that rather than a singular bar to jump over it feels more like the first hurdle in a 110m race and I am simply not up for that today. Apologies.

Well, given the game state I think this comes from scum more than town but hey if it doesn't no worries. Games are supposed to be fun after all.

Arti posted...

Yes, you did.

Which is odd when you had to be prodded by Lea to provide anything on the main topic that has dominated most of the day. I'm sure you remember since I think you made more posts in that instance than I've seen in the game so far.

You called those two scum. So are you going to vote them or apply any pressure? SBell sure has tried!

Also, since you think Ulti is scum, what is your opinion on post 437 of last topic by Kirby?

Like I told Lea, I didn't have anything to add on the main topic of the day. So I commented on other stuff

Also like I said, Chris is on fire and I'm not going to try and get in his way unless I have a rock solid read on whoever he's pushing, which I didn't on you. I mentioned this before when I said "you don't give the ball to Derek Fisher when Kobe's dropping 80". I'm content to hold off on pressuring them for now

As for Kirby's 437, I don't think scum actually scanned Ulti. They would know his flavor, and the format could have just been a lucky guess (as I mentioned earlier, it's exactly what the Pokedex says in the anime) or they could have scanned someone else and just switched in Ulti. So I don't really agree that you can't be scum together

Sorry Kobe I just can't see changmas as scum. I am biased because we are eternal mason bros and it conflicts with my Isquen read, but I just cant get there

also I'm getting ready to go to bed again and I don't think Scare has shown up since last time I went to bed

##Vote: Scare

MZero posted...

Sorry Kobe I just can't see changmas as scum. I am biased because we are eternal mason bros and it conflicts with my Isquen read, but I just cant get there

also I'm getting ready to go to bed again and I don't think Scare has shown up since last time I went to bed

##Vote: Scare

Noted

Also there was a point yesterday where Arti called out Ben for focusing on defending himself instead of pressuring elsewhere which chang pushed back on. I don't think scum chang extends like that to defend a buddy who's already golden brown. Especially when he called ben probably scum anyway. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me

Was it really much of an extension to point that out? But your thought is noted

Thoughts on the jc vs chang challenge that chang declined to take up?

Then his votals night killed him in his sleep

[4] Chang: Chris, Ulti, Sultan, Abacus
[3] Arti: (Ulti), (Isquen), (Chris), Plum, Chang, Isquen, (Chris)
[2] MZero: Lea, Arti
[1] Ulti: SBell, (Sultan)
[1] Scare: MZero
[0] Hb: (Isquen)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to reach majority. Day ends at 7pm EDT on Tuesday, roughly 7 hours from now.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Was it really much of an extension to point that out? But your thought is noted

Thoughts on the jc vs chang challenge that chang declined to take up?

I don't feel like you're asking too much, but changmas seems legitimately deflated to me. Reminds me of SBell last game before Tidus revealed his scan, where Scare tried to give him chances to defend himself but he chose to give up and mope instead

But do you think you could pass that challenge in his stead? He spends a lot of time calling jc inactive

Also sbell was a town who had seen town power lynched day 1 by king Lopen and ulti the watcher killed n1. Here I am confused why anyone would think they have a quick noose with me. I was very methodical day one in dealing with sheep and Ben. I don't know if this is earned

Yeah I will say town has more reasons to feel excited than scum at this point

You know whata crazy btw. Chang ended up mislynching me in FE yet he is citing that as him being sullen because I suspected him but ultimately let him go

Geesh

Holy walls batman!

Chang you probably already answered this but if im to lynch someone not you today who do I lynch and why.

Well I'm definitely okay with this pressure on Chang, thanks for going in Chris. I didn't seen anything great when his feet were put to the fire which gives me more confidence. Without second guessing the read, I'm wondering why we're not still lynching the counterclaimed person in Arti?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

But do you think you could pass that challenge in his stead? He spends a lot of time calling jc inactive

JC is pretty inactive. He's done nothing to prove himself town, as his only vote all game was Sheep after he was counterclaimed by Hb. I do remember playing with JC in the past and I don't remember thinking of him as a person who is this inactive in mafia games.

Arti posted...

JC is pretty inactive. He's done nothing to prove himself town, as his only vote all game was Sheep after he was counterclaimed by Hb. I do remember playing with JC in the past and I don't remember thinking of him as a person who is this inactive in mafia games.

But is he? Like yeah he hasn't posted a lot but the posts I quoted aren't what I typically think of as inactive. He has given quite a bit of thought to things.

Like jc and chang read as opposites to me here. Chang is here a lot but without much to say and jc is certainly less frequent but he always seems to have something to say.

Chaeix posted...

Well I'm definitely okay with this pressure on Chang

Why? What are you trying to achieve with pressure on Chang?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Like jc and chang read as opposites to me here. Chang is here a lot but without much to say and jc is certainly less frequent but he always seems to have something to say.

That's actually an interesting way to put it. I should definitely look back at some of his earlier posts like you did

Arti posted...

That's actually an interesting way to put it. I should definitely look back at some of his earlier posts like you did

I highlighted a lot of them out of context earlier this page.

masterplum posted...

Why? What are you trying to achieve with pressure on Chang?

I'll be honest my first reaction to this question was "what kind of question even is this, shouldn't it be obvious" but I decided to indulge.

My initial goal was to draw the spotlight to Chang and Chris has now done that himself, with gusto. Of course I'm happy about that. At this point since he's claimed the pressure is more for behavioral responses, and I haven't seen him offer anything new. Contrast him with someone like Lea responding to pressure and the difference is night and day (acknowledging Lea is still in my ??? category). All I've seen is him get defeated and in his categorization list, slightly shift Scare from someone to focus on (as mentioned at the start of the day) to being in his ??? category which might not even be a shift depending on how strong his suspicion of Scare was earlier (where are you Scare?!?).

As you'll notice though, I'm not voting Chang yet because I have an open question of why we aren't voting for the counterclaimed person. Happy to vote him of course.

That being said, I should put my vote where my mouth is, <b>##Vote: Arti</B>

##vote: arti

old habits die hard

I am so confused by that JC post. It reads

"We obviously should vote the counter claimed person but I like that people aren't voting for the person I want lynched and I'm happy to lynch the other person but I'm not voting them"

Chaeix posted...

<b>##Vote: Arti</B>

SCUM

/s

...

Arti did the counterclaiming for one.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Here I am confused why anyone would think they have a quick noose with me. I was very methodical day one in dealing with sheep and Ben. I don't know if this is earned

DoomTheGyarados posted...

You know whata crazy btw. Chang ended up mislynching me in FE yet he is citing that as him being sullen because I suspected him but ultimately let him go

Geesh

I can answer these together. It's completely the opposite. I believe you operate with a very slow noose which requires overwhelming justification to override. It took me what, 10-15 iterative posts with me constantly stumbling over my points to answer you in FE:A mafia before you ultimately let me go, no? I fought through the sullenness to put forth a lot of effort that day and was ultimately rewarded but there were far fewer on my train to begin with compared to now. I feel as though I've seen the writings on the wall here and I don't believe it's within my power to overcome today even if I did put forth my best efforts, and that is honestly alright by me.

If I were to survive beyond the day, I would likely become a huge distraction on future days because, barring a scan, I don't really see a clear path to shift the prevailing opinion about myself. I'd prefer to fall on the sword and let town see more clearly the scum who have propped up my mislynch.

At the very least I hope that I won't be mislynched again for reasoning like caring too much about flavor meta or remembering flavor claims too well which are just aspects of my personality. I'm sorry I didn't put forth more genuine effort this game but I thought (and still think) that town had things under control without needing me to put forth anything truly substantive yet. I truly think of myself as a player who wants to joke around and have fun to start while I'm working to collect data in the background for lategame, and I suppose I joked around too much this time. Feedback for growth.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

...

Arti did the counterclaiming for one.

You know what I meant.

masterplum posted...

I am so confused by that JC post. It reads

"We obviously should vote the counter claimed person but I like that people aren't voting for the person I want lynched and I'm happy to lynch the other person but I'm not voting them"

Yes that's exactly how it should read? I think Chang is scum, and I think Arti is scum, but the degree of confidence in Arti being scum is higher because I don't believe we have two flavor cops and I believe Hb over Arti. I think that's pretty simple.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Chang you probably already answered this but if im to lynch someone not you today who do I lynch and why.

It should be Arti, for counterclaim reasons.

It doesn't help that Ben was talking about understanding needing to be lynched before we hung him too.

I understand I can put immense pressure and weight on people. Good news for you is that I am but the only vote.