Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 7 - The Mafia Strikes Back

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red13n
05/23/22 6:59:50 PM
#101:


htaeD posted...
And I have been over it as well. The flavor scan on Ulti can be faked if anyone on the scumteam knows anything about Pokemon.

That was way too specific to HB's scan to be faked.

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DoomTheGyarados
05/23/22 6:59:50 PM
#102:


Obellisk posted...
well then we just fucked.

Yeah this is a fair conclusion tbf. Don't think anyone but arti can go today so I am trying to set pieces up for the flip in either direction to have things to go on.

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Obellisk
05/23/22 7:00:18 PM
#103:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
Yeah this is a fair conclusion tbf. Don't think anyone but arti can go today so I am trying to set pieces up for the flip in either direction to have things to go on.

I'll give you a better day 3.

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Obellisk
05/23/22 7:00:49 PM
#104:


I mean 4

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DoomTheGyarados
05/23/22 7:01:06 PM
#105:


Obellisk posted...
I'll give you a better day 3.

I mean one fish two fish red fish blue fish

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Sir Chris
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htaeD
05/23/22 7:01:10 PM
#106:


red13n posted...


That was way too specific to HB's scan to be faked.


https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_category

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TheSultanOfSlam
05/23/22 7:02:59 PM
#107:


red13n posted...
We've been over this. The Arti flavor scan on Ulti has been confirmed.

How?

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changmas
05/23/22 7:03:05 PM
#108:


htaeD posted...
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_category

that's still a pretty arbitrary thing to guess that it would give more information but specifically just their epithet

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Obellisk
05/23/22 7:03:18 PM
#109:


derp..derp...

I thought day was legit ending right now...

We have 24 more more hours of this shit?

see you in 23 hours.

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htaeD
05/23/22 7:04:31 PM
#110:


changmas posted...


that's still a pretty arbitrary thing to guess that it would give more information but specifically just their epithet


True
But thats why I am at least assuming scum flavor scanned someone.

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DoomTheGyarados
05/23/22 7:07:41 PM
#111:


Also since I asked for info sbell has dialed it back down a notch. No info needed anymore he isn't making me sad.

##vote:arti

Shouldn't get too into my head about this I guess.

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Hbthebattle
05/23/22 7:11:27 PM
#112:


red13n posted...
That was way too specific to HB's scan to be faked.
Correction: it only confirms that Arti flavorcopped someone, not necessarily Ulti.

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red13n
05/23/22 7:35:13 PM
#113:


Hbthebattle posted...
Correction: it only confirms that Arti flavorcopped someone, not necessarily Ulti.

Hmm, possible. What was the wording again?

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red13n
05/23/22 7:37:25 PM
#114:


At a glance this still feels too far up the conspiracy train for me though.

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htaeD
05/23/22 7:39:36 PM
#115:


Thats understandable.
Ulti looks decent enough for now, especially if Arti does flip scum.

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Isquen
05/23/22 8:47:57 PM
#116:


Off of work and another gigatopic to get through. Oi.

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Chaeix
05/23/22 10:36:27 PM
#117:


changmas posted...
Lastly couple side notes: JC and Scare are both overly focused on me in their limited content thus far. Something to keep an eye on.

1v1 fox only final destination no items

UltimaterializerX posted...
Hey Justin, let's assume Areti flips scum. What's your 3 man scum team?

Well, earlier on in the day I would have had you on the list but I'm increasingly less convinced of that if Arti flips scum. Considering Ben was scum and I'm extremely suspicious of MZero, and I don't think that a scum player playing safe puts 3 of his teammates on his suspicion list. I think MZero is scummier than you are which helps your case.

So one is naturally MZero, as I've mentioned previously. He's offered a little bit more content but still very little. I'm skeptical that the renewed activity is anything more than the result of large amounts of pressure.

I think still thing Chang is scum - Death's point that Lopen piled on Chang d1 is somewhat defeated by his own admission that Lopen's reads weren't strong and were only half serious in the first place. I've seen more from him but I still just can't find any real substance in what he's providing. Sure he ISO'd Lopen/Arti but that's low hanging fruit and content a scumbuddy could easily pull off.

I'm not as confident in a third read right now so in lieu I'll give you my general thoughts and where my question marks lie. Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like I haven't seen much recently from Scare, Red, and ViolentAbacus. By my own admission I don't feel good about suspecting more than a few people who I haven't seen offer as many opinions (possibly fallacious? I just doubt the whole scum team is in there) and I find them less suspicious than Changmas and MZero. Feel free to ask my any questions about any particular opinions here.

Town
Sbell
Chris
Sultan
Death
Plum
Hb
Kirby
*Possibly* Ulti

???
Scare
Red
Lea
Isquen
ViolentAbacus

Scum
Mzero
Changmas


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#118
Post #118 was unavailable or deleted.
Isquen
05/23/22 11:00:36 PM
#119:


Okay, I got a lot to unpack here with a slight headache. Big thing I want to address:

MZero and chang are just spewing white noise with no real logical reasoning that I'm aware of my way and if you think that me waffling briefly over hb you're out of your damn mind. What possible gain could there be for "laying a trap?" I don't even see what trap you're talking about! In the event of Arti being town: oh no, I made myself look bad by being suspicious of them for three days straight? Whoop-de-shit. I already know I looked bad for not only being on the Sheep train but also voting for the next morning's corpse, plus I know I look all the worse for a Miller claim. And if he flips scum? I'll be feeling confident and sitting pretty, since that's 3 out of 4 to 7, baby.

I slapped myself out of my early brainfart of voting for hb in a hurry and swapped back to Arti, since I'm townreading Hb *much* more than anyone else in the game. Chris and Abacus are close, but they're sort of on a rest day or something, today - I'm unsure if they're both resting on their laurels due to Chris snaring two scum or due to bussing two scum, and the ratio is still 20:1 there (for Chris) and... like, I don't know, half that for Abacus?

Abacus: Post some more, please. I want to have you back on sweet boy status (for what little good that did Ben throwing it in my face from D1, even as a joke.)

Sultan/SBell: thinking ulti is the play here today is actually dumb. Count Mewku/Dootwo is just... not lyrical at all. I can appreciate a good pun; R2Mew2 fits it just too well.

Scare: brought up a 3rd party, you poor unfortunate soul, and hiding behind a veneer of malice and inactivity. The former has not gone well for people in the past. I think I need to isolate your postings later.

Scummish, in descending order
Arti
Scare (Third party mentioner sets off an immediate red flag)
Mzero (inactive for long enough only to accuse me with no substance.)
Sultan (Unsure if scummy or just thick, but with a questionable role.)
Chang (no, u)
Neutralish
Ulti (if Arti flips town)
Sbell (Unsure if scummy or just thick)
Lea (finally some decent content)
Plum
Kirby
Townish
Death
Ulti (if Arti flips scum)
Chris (will never be at the extreme point of this list until 100% exonerated, no matter how circumstantial.)
Abacus (or extremely naive)
Hb

Outliers
Red (General passivity unless provoked, could be coasting)
JC (Rather inactive)

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DoomTheGyarados
05/23/22 11:16:11 PM
#120:


My internet was out all day and I got sick of posting on my phone in addition to me being a bit worn out. So yeah rest day is a good way to describe it. I don't think I have much more to say within the current game state than I already have.

You have some interesting reads. I will leave it at that for now.

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changmas
05/23/22 11:35:38 PM
#121:


Isquen I don't believe I've said anything to suspect you at all. I think you may be mistaken. In fact I'm fairly confident you're town! I also think Mzero is town, but that doesn't mean I agree with all of his reads.

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MZero
05/23/22 11:40:47 PM
#122:


htaeD posted...
Now I have to backtrack here since the way I summarized this it feels as if Mzero forgot Isquen was his biggest suspect for day2.
So I will ask him, using this post as a base. (and this is less a gotcha and more a curiosity for now)

What do you mean? I made an observation that backed up my Isquen read. I guess I could have been more clear about it, but I don't see how this is forgetting my read on Isquen considering I said one of them is scum and have not suspected changmas even once

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MZero
05/23/22 11:48:48 PM
#123:


Kirby321 posted...
... That was a joke? I... guess I see it now. I interpreted "them" as the general public, but I can see how it could've meant the scumboard.

Geez, for someone who cracks a lot of jokes, I'm awful at detecting them. That one completely flew over my head. I just remember raising my eyebrows at it this morning.

... But Mzero uses the word "role" specifically rather than "flavor". Are you sure your interpretation is the correct one?

of course I was being snarky. Ulti said he was scanned by scum flavor scanner and so I said he shouldn't have made his team waste a scan on him. Ergo calling him scum. I don't actually care if scum wastes their scans

and obviously I meant to say flavor and just typed the wrong thing

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DoomTheGyarados
05/23/22 11:55:08 PM
#124:


I don't think I can be convinced mzero is scum this game. I had a lock on both sheep and Ben this game. I just don't think they do that interaction with mzero as a buddy.

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DoomTheGyarados
05/23/22 11:56:34 PM
#125:


That being said I feel like suspecting isquen doesn't make a lot of sense currently.

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MZero
05/23/22 11:57:38 PM
#126:


Lunch is over see ya in 5ish hours

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Kirby321
05/24/22 12:17:57 AM
#127:


Can the people who suspect changmas give better reasoning than "he's just saying white noise"? Like, one, I don't think that's even true. Perhaps chang hasn't provided anything groundbreaking this game, but he has his own opinions with cohesive reasoning and keeps the discussions going. That's more than I can say for several players.

Two, I don't see anything different between this game's chang and last game's chang, who was town. Unless he's godly scum who can fake and deceive very well, I'm just not seeing chang as scum this game. Maybe third-party, but I'm not gonna entertain that as a possibility yet. I see a one-to-one match between the versions of chang between this game and last game.

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Kirby321
05/24/22 12:20:33 AM
#128:


On that note, I don't think anyone has sussed Death so far, but I feel the same way about him. I don't think I see a difference between Death this game and Death last game. changmas and Death are both town as far as I'm concerned.

inb4Kirby'spostslackcontent

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DoomTheGyarados
05/24/22 12:22:36 AM
#129:


Sheep's early interactions with death are lol levels of clearing

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Sir Chris
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changmas
05/24/22 12:23:47 AM
#130:


Kirby321 posted...
Unless he's godly scum who can fake and deceive very well,



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changmas
05/24/22 12:24:27 AM
#131:


i hope someone says that in the game i actually roll scum

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changmas
05/24/22 12:37:24 AM
#132:


but realistically i don't see a need to really put extremely meaningful effort in to reread the entire game on Day 3, especially while Chris is alive and on a huge hot streak. Once he departs us, the sleeping bears and Derek Fishers of the world shall come alive to assuage their doubters and seal the deal for town. Like I've always done.

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Kirby321
05/24/22 12:54:22 AM
#133:


Speaking of re-reading, I need to look back on D1 and D2 as Chris requested. I spent longer than I had intended being out and about tonight.

Though, honestly, I'm not feeling quite exactly motivated to do so. I believe in the arguments I formulated today against Arti, and I doubt an ISO will really change my opinions, especially when there are a lot of posts to read (which I'll probably take out of context anyway). I'll try to do it anyway just to be open-minded about it and see if anything does actually change my mind, but I feel like barely remembering Arti's posts until D3 probably says a lot of what I thought about him on D1 and D2.

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Kirby321
05/24/22 1:12:16 AM
#134:


I thought I said this earlier, but I guess I didn't post it.

D1 Lea and D3 Lea feel like completely different people. D1 Lea was full of fluff, latched on to flimsy arguments, and did nothing noteworthy. But that interaction with Chris regarding Arti's motives in the last topic was, for lack of a better term, awesome. I don't agree with the conclusion of her argument (that Arti didn't have a reason to recklessly claim as scum), but I thought she argued her case well and the reasoning was good. I might have entertained the same perspective if not for Death's conclusion.

Like, yeah, town is more often than not suboptimal, so expecting optimal play from a townie and suspecting them for it may not be reasonable. That's a platform I can understand. I still think Chris's suspicions of how Arti reacted to Corrik's fake scan and justification for choosing Ulti have weight to them, but last game, we did have a cop place their inno scan at the top of their scum list (sorry for always bringing that up!). So it makes sense to expect town to royally screw up more often than scum would, especially in such a blatant manner as this one.

Her argument felt like a genuine, well-constructed stance rather than BS for the sake of earning town points. Perhaps that's just how she plays as scum and is just finally waking up, but it's a stark contrast compared to D1. It makes me feel way better about Lea, though I'm not ready to take her off my scum list entirely yet.

Though in hindsight, perhaps such a vehement defense of Arti may be a scumbuddy trying to deceive Chris in order to possibly save Arti from a lynch. Idk, that's plausible, but I'm gonna err on the side of a genuine and well-meaning defense just due to the absurdity of the situation.

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DoomTheGyarados
05/24/22 1:20:09 AM
#135:


It was good content, within range for lea's scum game but good content. If we all aspire to create such content the second half of the game will probably go smoothly.

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Hbthebattle
05/24/22 1:21:45 AM
#136:


Lea has come off as really, really aggressive/sullen this game, which I don't remember her being in previous town games It's constantly given me a bad vibe about her, even on Day 1. I admit this might be might scumread of her actions D1 coloring my view though.

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Arti
05/24/22 2:32:17 AM
#137:


fell asleep and missed the entire Yankees game, whoops

changmas posted...
this one stuck out to me at the time. i suppose this could be some kind of star wars joke i don't know about (perhaps one that fits with the joke gladiator claim?) but from what i can tell dexster jettster would not fit this at all. maybe someone who knows literally anything about star wars can help me with this.
iirc he did claim something that fit his fake gladiator claim in topic 1. I don't exactly remember what it was though.

then switches to Ben from Sheep with zero explanation of how we got there.
If I needed an explanation to vote someone who was counterclaimed like what happened on day one I don't know what to tell you.

changmas posted...
Now after the flip on Day 2 he's suddenly very concerned with Isquen's view of Sheep.

This is from a discussion with me on Day 2. Key insight into how he thinks a town player should play. It's a bit of a stretch, but you could make the argument he's got this on hand because he's been thinking about it himself trying to replicate town play. He's working hard to push on Lea and Isquen this day.
The fact that Isquen specifically avoided the Sheep lynch on day 1 has me thinking he might have been newbie scum that didn't want to vote his buddy, and since I've never played with him before I wanted some insight on his thought process. It's probably not though, since I think he's town after the miller 'counterclaim' on Ulti.

changmas posted...
also arti didn't get anywhere remotely close to the corrik scan claim. just totally ignored it.
Chris quoted the post last topic on day 2 where I called Corrik's scan just another one of his fakeclaims.

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Arti
05/24/22 2:39:42 AM
#138:


Also, I want this on record.

##Vote: MZero

I've liked most of what Kirby's been posting today, which seems a far distance from the walls he made back on day one. MZero still hasn't really done anything and had to be prodded last topic to give an opinion on anyone.

I would assume there are a few scum just sitting on the sidelines and being content with my lynch so they aren't really doing anything to provide any content. MZero fits that narrative. My only problem is that Scare also fits that and he's been really inactive lately. Can't get the posts in day one between Sheep and Scare out of my mind, though, so he's still probably town, but it's definitely worrying me.

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DoomTheGyarados
05/24/22 2:43:22 AM
#139:


Arti may I suggest if you are town that the next time you take notes. It is so hard for me to think you just forgot one of your main suspects claimed their flavor. If that turns out to be sincere... oof.

I am torn on this but I think I have to be too forgiving to not vote for you today. There's just too many things. But please give robust thoughts.


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Arti
05/24/22 2:48:00 AM
#140:


That's fair. I haven't played mafia in four years but I do remember taking notes in games from back then. I obviously didn't do that this time and that's my own fault.

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DoomTheGyarados
05/24/22 2:50:13 AM
#141:


Four years is a long time to come back and bus your buddies day one.

I kind of want to board 8 special someone today entirely recklessly. Not gonna be mzero though given early interaction from sheep. Got any more names up your sleeve?

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Arti
05/24/22 2:51:25 AM
#142:


The other player I wanted to mention was Abacus. He was around during the counterclaim I made, yet never really commented on it. His lone post on page 3 of the previous topic had nothing to do with my claim at all. He did ask me a few questions on the list I posted, but never really followed up on them either. I get he's a new player but he might just be skirting by because of this.

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DoomTheGyarados
05/24/22 2:55:19 AM
#143:


Okay so that's 2 of 4 remaining scum from your view. Give me two others. Gun to your head and all.

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Sir Chris
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red13n
05/24/22 3:03:25 AM
#144:


Mzero has been limited but the best way I can word it is I get very different vibes than I got from him last game where I had absolutely no qualms throwing him away.

I can't townpile him but at an onset "different" is a word I use right now.

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DoomTheGyarados
05/24/22 3:13:01 AM
#145:


Heya red. Got more thoughts? Can be about anything really just would be good to have them.

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Sir Chris
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Arti
05/24/22 3:15:05 AM
#146:


I'm going to bet there's at least one scum that is contributing a lot today, and if it isn't Kirby, it's probably changmas. His ISO of me last page was extremely weak and felt like he was just trying to provide content, and he missed a lot of posts by both Lopen and myself when going over the topics, as some of the questions or comments could have been clarified if he read closer. Scare also provided some worthwhile content on changmas when he was here back in topic 5:

ScareChan posted...
Chang was also I think the first one to bring up flavor

It feels like he's been trying to fish for flavor day 1

Ben flipping scum and the vibe I got from sheep would make me circle chang as the next person to push
The quotes Scare pulled up include changmas commenting on how the game has had only Star Wars characters at the time, and then Ben calling him town for pointing this out. Scare believed that Chang's interactions with Sheep at the time were more of a scum lean on the page prior to this.

I will say though I know changmas has been active but I can't really recall anything big he's done regarding any of the lynches so far. Besides my own.

4th person I'm still trying to figure out. Could be either JC or red since neither of them have posted enough for me to get a read on either of them yet. Either that, or I'm probably overlooking something since I think most of the remaining players otherwise are town.


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red13n
05/24/22 3:16:26 AM
#147:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
Heya red. Got more thoughts? Can be about anything really just would be good to have them.

The more I click on the game the more I feel chang might be completely PoE'd as scum.

Thats about all I got for idle thoughts til I get bored.

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DoomTheGyarados
05/24/22 3:25:16 AM
#148:


A lot of chatter about changmas today. I was hot day one and if he is scum then frankly I was on an atomic level heater.

I will review chang actually. I have been glancing at the player list and feeling good about a lot of people. Let me see if hindsight and fresh eyes lends me to something different for chang.

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DoomTheGyarados
05/24/22 4:18:04 AM
#149:


##unvote: Arti
##vote: Chang

Working on posts explaining this.

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DoomTheGyarados
05/24/22 4:41:18 AM
#150:


So I am filtering my lens for this read through to "Chris voted scum early day one, then he voted scum, then oh he voted scum a third time what a great day for Chris' to see if viewing chang as scum makes sense with an 'unkind'/harsh filter that I would normally save for later days because I am disquieted about the arti lynch.

Also I took a 5 hour energy. Fuck you thyroid, I'm Kobe Bean Bryant mother fucker.

changmas posted...
btw what's the dealio with the video opening credits only saying "Star Wars Mafia". and the Light Side / Dark Side split is all star wars flavor too. Where are the Pokemon at? I feel like I've been bamboozled by our host into thinking there would be Pokemon.


I think this post might not mean as much as we thought it did in terms of 'mindset.' We are assuming scum knew their pokemon day one but ben did change flavor to talk with me at the start of night 1 so maybe they got the switch early (thus why he had a buyable fake claim by the start of n1 - luxray skywalker or whatever) but not during day one.

Actually a thought just struck me given that these names don't have to be 100% spot on (Venomoff for instance.) I am guessing that scum's safelist only has characters that can work with something. Sheep claimd Cassian Andor so if it is on the the safelist then let's pull up a pokemon chart...

Nosepassian Andor

Probopassian Andor

Frosslassian Andor

Just three examples of how not having a safelist for day 1 for pokemon or knowing what is it is totally chill. There's a lot of pokemon after all. So I think I am prepared to walk back any theories that revolve the two sides of the game being imbalanced for flavor knowledge day one.

Sorry this went off track but I have energy again so this is what happens when I am not tired.

changmas posted...
Chris, Corrik, Isquen, Ben all looking pretty standard to what I would expect from them thus far


Boy, does this look bad in hindsight. Ben was already kind of making me think 'hm', I was in my final form in a way that this man has never seen, and Corrik/Isquen didn't have a solid foundation at all. This post, really, is just completely without foundation isn't it?

Lopen, now known as arti, posts this and it's just... 100% accurate and mirrored my own thoughts

Lopen posted...
Especially with respect to Chris. Is this standard Chris? Why? Doesn't look like standard Chris. I don't even know what a standard Chris town game looks like these days but this ain't nothin like Psych Chris who just sorta hung around and was nonchalant.

And Isquen when's the last time he's played what's a standard Isquen game?


PunishedBen posted...
I was wondering the same but wanted to wait and see who brought it up first. I don't think scum would mention it. Especially if they're the pokemon. Congratulations, you are town.


But the scum weren't the Pokemon, so Ben was using town's assumptions early to play into that narrative to attempt to blend in so I bet if I look on the first 3 pages of topic 1 of people theorizing that the pokemon were scum (a pretty fair assumption given flavor and all) almost everyone who did it is town.

In 212 I quoted a post from ben saying to changmas:

'*grabs a seat next to you* Hey there. You seem to have first time scum on the mind.'

But then he declares him town a couple hours later with nothin coming from this interaction. I thought it wasn't something a scum ben would do but really if you were making sure to have some interactions with your buds early but to back off easily, why not?

At this point I am muttering to myself out loud "I made a mistake." My brain is telling me I deserve head pats for this. Arti lynch screams wrong to me. I read something from Arti and it made me want to bring attention to him but... yeah I didn't get to be this good by ignoring my instincts here.

We're going to test the heater I am on. I don't think 4 years removed from playing arti busses ben hard when sheep is in the lead day one. I do think town arti who hasn't played in almost half a decade just forgets to be very careful especially with an obvious bullshit claim from corrik that doesn't stick to his mind. Final answer, let's fucking go.

Sheep007 posted...
Yeah screw it I'm not letting that fly

##Vote: Plum

Chang then throws shade at plum in back to back posts over Plum voting Kirby. Then he does a lot of defending of Kirby to Plum on page seven of topic 1.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



When ace attorney Lea posts this, chang responds with

changmas posted...
I will defend all players on day 1. Even plum. Maybe.


Funny response, really.

433 I post with

'changmas' chart tells me that if he is scum there is a more than likely chance that Sbell and Lopen are both town because I don't think he breaks out the paint skills if anyone is early bussing him. Not a sure thing, but just a hunch.'

I stand by this statement.

---
Sir Chris
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