Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 7 - The Mafia Strikes Back

(+) Yeah! (+)

I mention how the flavor text feels performative and chang responds with

changmas posted...

in fairness it was the very first thing i wanted to post about but then I got sidetracked by someone asking everyone to make lists of 5 good names and 5 bad names immediately so that initial post got pushed back a few hours.

Does chang seem like the type of guy who doesn't post exactly whatever the fuck he wants? Dude's got a mouth on him. Dude shoots night one as vig. But here he felt compelled to give me my post ASAP and push aside his thoughts on flavor. Additionally, if we're really twisting the knife... scum would technically have more reason to ask where are the pokemon than town as they know they are all star wars and everyone is talking about not being pokemon and their d1 safelist would be all star wars. Also this excuse just doesn't pass the smell test. I asked for 5 random names and that pushes back a post? It's actually really flimsy I was just distracted by murdering other scum to think it through day 1 and 2. If chang is scum I literally went from Scum A to Scum B to Scum C back to scum B and then one more time to scum C. This would please me.

changmas posted...

I like Hb, he backed me up on some of my points against plum :)

Plum is town

Changmas disappears when I start to grill ben and sheep hard in topic 2 (it was late, this isn't inherently an alignment thing)

Post 386 I frankly give changmas too much credit for defending Isquen in 384.

Topic 3

changmas posted...

it's day 1. I'll select who to vote for once i've seen all of the trains emerge as we move toward the deadline

I know chang likes to withhold his vote so this is kind of null but the way he says it is pinging me. Chang jokes about sheep's claim and counter but doesn't offer anything of substance

changmas posted...

Red is not clear if Sheep flips scum.

Red is the only person (thus far) who claims to be a Pokemon character and a town member and I will not be forgetting that fact if my League of Villainous Pokemon theory starts getting some hard evidence behind it.

Hi red want your town clear now or should I keep pretending.

Hbthebattle posted...

If the scum was all Pokemon characters, they'd see from their fakeclaims list that all of town are star wars characters. There'd be no reason for any member of scum to admit that in that case.

Let's just clear HB again for fun.

changmas posted...

it's always logic and quality reasoning that shut down the most fun we can have :/

Changmas is a good player who gives thoughts to things. The post about red was far and away his most substantial post in topic 3 and it is thrown away like a joke as soon as someone refutes it in any way.

Day 2, topic 4

Chaeix posted...

I've also become a Pokemon overnight, yay.

So what I'm wondering is whether or not reading into Sheep's questioning of Isquen's list yesterday should be read into. He was like 'Where are SBell, Mzero, Scare, and JC on your list Isquen?' and alluded to others not being included but the only person he didn't actually ask about is Changmas. Is there a reason he omitted Changmas specifically as a scumbuddy or was it just happenstance? Impossible to know at this point but it did stand out to me.

Uh oh is much maligned and attacked JC actually town who just hasn't posted tons. Uh oh scum, you might have less scapegoats than you had hoped.

About ben's claim of luxray:

changmas posted...

THIS IS NOT A PORTMANTEAU kill it kill it!!!!

Ben claimed Luxray at 07:07:23

Chang came in with kill it kill it at at 07:09:19. Giving Chang less than two minutes to see the post, cross check the flavor, cross check the naming conventions, and then post saying to kill it.

Except as I explained in topic... Ben had already changed his flavor to me night one. Scum chang, obviously, knows this and knows this observation will be rendered moot.

changmas posted...

Death's acting scummy scum scum today

Narrator: No, it turns out, Death was not acting scummy scum scum that day.

Through four topics Chang has mastered the art of doing nothing in this game.

PunishedBen posted...

Oh thank you Chang. Chang and Isquen are both 100% town next to Chris and deserve to never be lynched. Please remember that after I am dead if you remember one thing. And HB but i think everyone agrees with that one

Rule of 3 lol

He posted some mechanical thoughts and eventually voted Ben but still nothing to latch onto.

Day 3

changmas posted...

or to go exactly one step further of logic, scum have killed Queen Corrik (RIP) to frame Arti

I believe it.

changmas posted...

Because even though the Star Wars bodyguard is dead, there's almost certainly a Pokemon protection character left for town.

I believe this too

changmas posted...

I'll lean town for Lea and Ulti

Make it 3

changmas posted...

It is very strange that SBell, after Arti literally claimed the same role as HB, would make a post about role doubles between Town and Scum team but to incriminate Ulti rather than Arti

Interesting.

Chang says arti didn't mention corrik's claim. This turned out to be not true, as Arti pointed out that I pointed out.

This lynch fills me with peace. Arti's makes me upset. Chang has done nothing and has frankly a lot of his scum reads are very bad in hindsight. Chris has decided we're not killing Arti today and is joining Ace Attorney Lea as Co-Council.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Hi red want your town clear now or should I keep pretending.

You probably should have already known I was town by the weird attempted neighbor play, tbh.

I neighbor a sultan/mzero/hb type, put them in our pocket and call it a day.

red13n posted...

You probably should have already known I was town by the weird attempted neighbor play, tbh.

I neighbor a sultan/mzero/hb type, put them in our pocket and call it a day.

I don't know maybe you were being ALOOF in scum chat as scum red clearly is.

There is a reason I said 'do you want to keep pretending'

So, murder of chang time, yes?

Likely, yeah.

Changmas likes images in his posts. Here's one for him.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/6/1/AAOt6hAADQ1B.jpg

MZero posted...

What do you mean? I made an observation that backed up my Isquen read. I guess I could have been more clear about it, but I don't see how this is forgetting my read on Isquen considering I said one of them is scum and have not suspected changmas even once

I was just confused since I dont know why you would even mention changmas if you still thought Isquen was scum.

I havent read Chris post in full yet (I am very sleepy today okay)
But I have to ask Ulti what changed for him to not want to lynch Arti now?

Actually I think I want to reserve my full thoughts until after Changmas himself responds to them.

But I do want to say in general that I dont know if I can believe that scum wouldnt get advance knowledge of the flavor switch from Han, considering how pokemon flavors are generally splitless and we have at least one flavor scanner on our side.

Granted you raise some fine points against him without that theory as well, but I need to mull this over for a bit. I still think Arti is just scum too.

Ulti just randomly jumping is strange.

changmas posted...

that's still a pretty arbitrary thing to guess that it would give more information but specifically just their epithet

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the Pokedex says when Ash whips it out in the anime, so not really arbitrary

Kirby321 posted...

Mewtwo the... lightning rod? Seriously?

... I'm taking a joke too seriously again, aren't I?

Yes, but also Anorith, Flavor Cop? I don't think metaing the Pokemon flavor and role combination is a good idea. Unless my knowledge of Anorith lore is lacking

htaeD posted...

But I do want to say in general that I dont know if I can believe that scum wouldnt get advance knowledge of the flavor switch from Han, considering how pokemon flavors are generally splitless and we have at least one flavor scanner on our side.

I don't think the gimmick works if scum gets advanced knowledge like that. You are basically putting scum in a weird position of having -too much- information.

I have earned this heat check and we all know it.

I hate being one to agree with Chris most beacuse that is not my style. But Chang you got some explaining to do.

Even during the game he vig shot on day 1, he was able to turn it around and have a better game. Idk if he needs more time to turn it around or needs killed immediately.

I guess we should put pressure on Chang huh.

##unvote
##vote:Chang

There's nothing wrong with reading my logic and agreeing. I have my reputation for a reason. Just don't blindly follow me ans ask questions if you have them.

Tbh I would never do fhat i like to try and figure stuff out myself even if im wrong. But people following you blindly is a pet peve of mine in mafia lol

Chang was on my lean scum list but after reading all your digging I like this as the lynch today or atleast as a pressure check

DoomTheGyarados posted...

That being said I feel like suspecting isquen doesn't make a lot of sense currently.

Isquen has much more conviction as town, even if his logic and be a bit wonky at times. Every time he's been pushed back against this game he's backed off. We saw it again today with HB

Feels to me like he's overly concerned with how he looks compared to usual

MZero posted...

Isquen has much more conviction as town, even if his logic and be a bit wonky at times. Every time he's been pushed back against this game he's backed off. We saw it again today with HB

Feels to me like he's overly concerned with how he looks compared to usual

Maybe so. But he is very new and does odd things still. Thoughts on my chang case?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Tbh I would never do fhat i like to try and figure stuff out myself even if im wrong. But people following you blindly is a pet peve of mine in mafia lol

Chang was on my lean scum list but after reading all your digging I like this as the lynch today or atleast as a pressure check

If it makes you feel better I am following other people who were pointing out problems with chang. I just had the energy to dig for it. I stand on the shoulders of giants.

Arti posted...

MZero still hasn't really done anything and had to be prodded last topic to give an opinion on anyone.

My first post was calling Ulti scum and my second post was calling Isquen scum

can you point me to the prodding?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

About ben's claim of luxray:

Ben claimed Luxray at 07:07:23

Chang came in with kill it kill it at at 07:09:19. Giving Chang less than two minutes to see the post, cross check the flavor, cross check the naming conventions, and then post saying to kill it.

Except as I explained in topic... Ben had already changed his flavor to me night one. Scum chang, obviously, knows this and knows this observation will be rendered moot.

Query: Did Ben claim Rey before claiming Luxray, or was his Kyle Kartan claim still on the table at that time? If the former, then changmas's post doesn't make sense. If it's the latter, I don't think the portmanteau stuff is an unreasonable conclusion to make in a short span of time.

That's the only qualm I have with your ISO. I... have to admit I didn't realize how little changmas posted in Day 1. I still don't feel too sure about his lynch versus Arti's, but you bring up a good argument.

Hmm... I guess my vote will be a final arbiter of sorts for who gets lynched today, huh? Luckily, I'll actually be here for the end of the day. I should be here, at least, real life notwithstanding.

To elaborate on the first part, your conclusion relies on the assumption that chang had to cross-check the flavor. He could have also just simply remembered Ben's claimed flavor, like how I just pulled out the name Kyle Kartan from memory.

He had not. I am just pointing out even if you buy the speed a scum chang knows what he is saying will be rendered moot when I tell everyone what Ben told me in private.

Also go back and read page 1 of topic 3 arti/ben. It just doesn't come off as scum/scum to me. Ben really was going back and forth with arti while when sheep voted him he didn't do much to start.

htaeD posted...

I was just confused since I dont know why you would even mention changmas if you still thought Isquen was scum.

I don't really follow. I was just giving my thoughts on Ben's post, which made me think one of changmas/Isquen is scum but not both. I think it's Isquen, but if he flips town or changmas flips scum then obviously I will reconsider (I'll get to Chris' heat check in a second)

I am kobe mzero don't disappoint kobe

I think it would've looked way better if you hadn't already put Ben in the hot seat and pointed out his behavior early in Topic 2, but I'll concede that Arti would've been ruthless in his debate with Ben if it was a bus. He tore fairly deep into Ben, especially with criticizing his list. At that point in the game, I doubt Ben was considered that much of a lost cause.

One could argue the play was to let Ben die in place of Sheep due to their roles (useless Neighborizer versus useful Tracker). This would assume that scum didn't know about the role switch, though, but in hindsight, neither Sheep nor Ben posed their own theories on the flavor, did they? I'm thinking your argument for only the townies discussing the flavor might be onto something.

In any case, I see your point. And it's a good point. Hmm... perhaps I need to go back and look at Arti in more depth after all. Like, for real this time.

Kirby321 posted...

I think it would've looked way better if you hadn't already put Ben in the hot seat and pointed out his behavior early in Topic 2, but I'll concede that Arti would've been ruthless in his debate with Ben if it was a bus. He tore fairly deep into Ben, especially with criticizing his list. At that point in the game, I doubt Ben was considered that much of a lost cause.

One could argue the play was to let Ben die in place of Sheep due to their roles (useless Neighborizer versus useful Tracker). This would assume that scum didn't know about the role switch, though, but in hindsight, neither Sheep nor Ben posed their own theories on the flavor, did they? I'm thinking your argument for only the townies discussing the flavor might be onto something.

In any case, I see your point. And it's a good point. Hmm... perhaps I need to go back and look at Arti in more depth after all. Like, for real this time.

Yeah it's like 'maaaybe' a bus but I feel given arti's discussion with Ben late topic 2 it feels more townish. It was uncharitable of me in hindsight to just call it bussing that easily tbh.

MZero posted...

I don't really follow. I was just giving my thoughts on Ben's post, which made me think one of changmas/Isquen is scum but not both. I think it's Isquen, but if he flips town or changmas flips scum then obviously I will reconsider (I'll get to Chris' heat check in a second)

I dont see what's hard to get. I mean its fair that you would also point out changmas in case Isquen is town. I just felt like it was odd that you didn't mention Isquen as your biggest pick for scum in that post.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Does chang seem like the type of guy who doesn't post exactly whatever the fuck he wants? Dude's got a mouth on him. Dude shoots night one as vig. But here he felt compelled to give me my post ASAP and push aside his thoughts on flavor. Additionally, if we're really twisting the knife... scum would technically have more reason to ask where are the pokemon than town as they know they are all star wars and everyone is talking about not being pokemon and their d1 safelist would be all star wars. Also this excuse just doesn't pass the smell test. I asked for 5 random names and that pushes back a post? It's actually really flimsy I was just distracted by murdering other scum to think it through day 1 and 2. If chang is scum I literally went from Scum A to Scum B to Scum C back to scum B and then one more time to scum C. This would please me.

This is the part that really stuck out to me. I like to think I know changmas pretty well, and if there's one thing I know about him it's that he loves metaing setup and flavor and the like. I do find it fishy that he pushed that back to appease your demand for vibe lists. I mean, there was no need to respond immediately. I don't think I did. But scum would be more eager to get on your good side I think, so that's a good find. He also could have done it immediately afterwards, so why did it get pushed back a few hours? It's not like that exercise took much thought, although scum probably thought about it more because they would be conscious of putting teammates on there.

Going to do some reading

htaeD posted...

I dont see what's hard to get. I mean its fair that you would also point out changmas in case Isquen is town. I just felt like it was odd that you didn't mention Isquen as your biggest pick for scum in that post.

but you just said you were confused why I mentioned changmas >_>

Fair on the other point though, I guess I just thought it was obvious and left it out

I didnt phrase that post well
I was confused until you at least explained that point in your second to last post. Then I was only confused on why you didn't bring more emphasis to Isquen.
As its all a minor point anyway, I can believe your explanation

Hello death my friend. Chang called you scum day 2. That was really quite rude of him I think you should repay the favor.

Hey Red called me scum too, and I still dont know what the hell that was about.

But
I think I did respond to that at the time, and I dont recall Chang following up on that?

htaeD posted...

Hey Red called me scum too, and I still dont know what the hell that was about.

But
I think I did respond to that at the time, and I dont recall Chang following up on that?

Funny that. Let's go on an adventure my friend.

And I will say Chris, while you raise a lot of good points I feel there is also some stuff in there that already assumes Chang has to be scum even though it could also be explained by him being town.

But again, I dont wanna give Chang ways to explain himself if he is scum..

htaeD posted...

And I will say Chris, while you raise a lot of good points I feel there is also some stuff in there that already assumes Chang has to be scum even though it could also be explained by him being town.

But again, I dont wanna give Chang ways to explain himself if he is scum..

No problem I did say I wasn't being charitable. I also think the arti/ben stuff is just as compelling as you really have to think rusty arti decided to go chard on Ben awhile before sheep came around. Not sure i buy it

It is food for thought yes.

I did wonder if maybe scum wrote Ben off as bussable ever since they saw his neighbor power, because there wouldn't be a reasonable excuse for Ben to not neighbor you without looking bad.

But then again it feels logical to assume that scum shot you in the hopes of avoiding Bens doom.

htaeD posted...

It is food for thought yes.

I did wonder if maybe scum wrote Ben off as bussable ever since they saw his neighbor power, because there wouldn't be a reasonable excuse for Ben to not neighbor you without looking bad.

But then again it feels logical to assume that scum shot you in the hopes of avoiding Bens doom.

Ben did say as much in topic but that's pure wifom. All in all I just feel better about this one. You know? I see it and am like yeah this fits.

Interesting that changmas both hammered sheep and was the last vote on Ben

both lynches were decided by then obviously, but seems a little on the nose for scum to jump on a buddy at the last minute two days in a row

hmmm

MZero posted...

both lynches were decided by then obviously, but seems a little on the nose for scum to jump on a buddy at the last minute two days in a row

hmmm

I often used to think last votes on scum were buddies and second to last votes on town were scum when doing voting analysis in yesteryear.

Arti posted... Anyway, the votals

d1
[11] Sheep: Kirby, (Chris), (Ben), plum, (Chris), (Lea), Hb, Death, Chris, JC, IGCD, Ben, Arti/Lopen, Sultan, chang
[3] Ben: (Chris), (Sultan), (Arti/Lopen), Sheep, (Chris), Ulti, ViolentAbacus
[1] Chris: Corrik, (Sultan), (IGCD)
[1] Isquen: (Arti/Lopen), (Lea), MZero, (IGCD)
[1] IGCD: Isquen
[0] Corrik: (IGCD), (Ben)
[0] Lea: (Hb)
[0] No Lynch: (Arti/Lopen)
[0] Kirby: (Plum), (Arti/Lopen)
[0] Plum: (Scare), (Sheep)
[0] Arti/Lopen: (Isquen), (Isquen), (IGCD)
[0] chang: (SBell), (Chris), (Arti/Lopen)
[0] Death: (Sheep)
[0] Ulti: (MZero)
[0] Sultan: (Isquen)

No vote: Red
No vote at end: Lea, SBell, Scare

d2
[7] Ben: (Hb), (Ulti), Sultan, Chris, Ulti, Kirby, Isquen, Plum, Chang
[1] Arti: (Isquen), (Ulti), Ben
[1] Ulti: (Isquen), SBell, (Ben)
[1] Chris: (Ulti), Corrik
[0] Red: (Plum)
[0] Lea: (Arti)
[0] Corrik: (Ulti), (Isquen)
[0] Abacus: (Ulti)

No vote: Death, JC, Lea, MZero, Red, Scare, ViolentAbacus
No vote at end: Arti, Hb

Sultan and plum town? I can see it

By that I mean I can see plum being town, Sultan is obvtown

I feel as though the first point, the one about the flavor, doesn't really do anything to me. Mzero brings up a good point though, why was it brought up so long after the lists? After all the vibe list (for me) was literally picking 10 random names and throwing them on a list. Could be a sign where Chang had to put a lot more thought into it as a scum.

Your second point, the one where Ben calls him town for asking about the flavor, does bring up good points. Why did Ben say that Chang is town just for bringing this up? There is nothing to go on from that would clear them as town.

Ben's inclusion of Chang and Isquen are 100% town next to Chris? My first thoughts of "town next to Chris" are HB & Plum at this point. It makes sense that Ben wants to choose two people who were kind of waffling to be compared to, and to be like "Look! If this one is town, the other is too" kind of deal.

Also like Mzero says, it's interesting that Chang was the last vote on both. Chris said that Chang likes to hold his vote, so could be nothing. But could be trying to wait and see if his buddies are going to be saved, and then deciding to look better.

##Vote: Chang

I could believe it.

Also to Arti, I didn't think being the 15th person to say "Two cops? That's not right" would be conductive to the conversation when I didn't have anything new to add. Now I still don't believe that there are two cops on one night, but I'm fine to leave that if the more experienced players are since they think it's a possibility.

whoo boy alright i guess it's time for this.

let me lay out how i would like to address this in a way that doesn't require me to spend the next 10 hours glued to this game getting grilled by every other player in the game.

i understand chris has had the kind of game up to this point where he's allowed to have a heat check and I agree with this idea in principle myself.

so realistically if i cannot convince chris of my innocence then i am dead regardless. So mainly I will just be addressing him and not addressing anyone else in the interest of conserving my own time today. Chris, if there are any questions asked by others you really want answered please let me know and I can do this as well.

after posting this i will go line by line through chris' concerns to address them to the best of my abilities. Following that explanation, i'm open to additional clarification on anything from that or elsewise.

If I haven't convinced Chris of my innocence by that point, I would request a final chance to compose my thoughts on the game and the other players, and then I will accept my mislynch and go peacefully.

Oh and my role is Ki-Adi Munna (Ki-Adi Mundi + Munna) Vanilla/Vanilla.

Sound good? Ok, time to work on my line-by-line reply.

UltimaterializerX posted...

HB or Chris, do you think Arti may be scum anyway?

I think its reasonably possible. The whole situation weirds me out. On one hand, I dont see a SW character that fits with Pokedex other than Dexter Jettser, but then again scum could be gambling that I wont get a chance to flavorcop again. And given that the biggest points in his favor today have been made by Lea, who Im still suspicious of, it still makes me feel off.

Im mostly fine with a Chang lynch, though.

Wait hold the fuck on

Didnt you claim the reason you jumped on me was because you thought there werent any Power/Power or Vanilla/Vanilla in the game?