Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 6 - A New Day

(+) Yeah! (+)

ViolentAbacus posted...

Why is cop considered weaker on Pokemon nights? I'm missing something there. Lea said it, and multiple people affirmed it so obviously it's true, but I'm missing why.

Host confirmed there is no real flavor split for Pokemon

ViolentAbacus posted...

Why is cop considered weaker on Pokemon nights? I'm missing something there. Lea said it, and multiple people affirmed it so obviously it's true, but I'm missing why.

Because flavor doesn't account for alignment. You could have a light side Giratina, or something. We actually *did* have a dark side Professor Oak.

Flavor copping Star Wars is probably stronger almost by definition until told otherwise by the host.

Do I really need to refresh 3 seconds before my post every time arghsbjfkckbwhak

Aha, thanks. Wasn't quite getting the no flavor split aspect, so that makes more sense.

ViolentAbacus posted...

Could you explain any of those, particularly why you think MZero and Kirby are scum, and why you think Lea is town?

I said the following last topic: "Kirby's walls in topic one, like Plum said in there, seem lackadaisical and pretty low in content. He's getting a lot of support from being the first person on Sheep's lynch but it's possible he didn't expect for Sheep to be lynched day one." Scare said that Sheep "attacked" Kirby but he really didn't; they basically just had a conversation about plum in the topic.

MZero is useless and inactive, which is his #1 scumtell. I've seen it far too much in many mafia games. I can't recall a single post he's made this entire game.

For what it is worth on re read I liked a lot of arti's posts day one and was starting to doubt my read but saying he forgot corrik claimed and then 'figured he was lying' is such an oof

i think lea's town still

I was thinking of having Lea claim her flavor at least so we could sink our teeth into her a bit more since she is the last of the three I wanted to focus on today with ulti scanned and arti bbq'd

Lea hasn't flirted with me once

Probably scum

Fastbreak posted...

Lea hasn't flirted with me once

Probably scum

I don't think either of you have been posting at the same time during the game

That doesn't impact my statement!

Note while checking in quick, going to assume kirby is town. Doubt scum would attack chris early in the day for a reason that clearly would have been discussed on the scumboard.

If we check in endgame and no one mentioned Pokemon protection being alive, likely multiple times, I'll be shocked.

Arti posted...

So taking into account Corrik's flip and my night scan, I have the following before reading anything

Town
me
Death
Hbthebattle
Isquen
Lea
Plum
Scare
Sultan
Ulti

Scum
Kirby
MZero

???
JC
Changmas
Red13n
SBell
Chris
ViolentAbacus

Putting your counter-claim as Town, huh? Bold move.

I'd vote right now, but I don't want to get dangerously close to hammering early.

Kirby321 posted...

Putting your counter-claim as Town, huh? Bold move.

I dont think this is actually bold in context.

Leafeon13N posted...

Note while checking in quick, going to assume kirby is town. Doubt scum would attack chris early in the day for a reason that clearly would have been discussed on the scumboard.

If we check in endgame and no one mentioned Pokemon protection being alive, likely multiple times, I'll be shocked.

Kirby attacked me?

UltimaterializerX posted...

1. Chaeix (JC)
2. Lea
3. MZero
4. Red13n
5. SBell
6. Scare

No one on this list has done anything of note for the entire game.

Good list. My memory of Day 2 ain't the brightest, but I did remember seeing Lea's name pop up quite a bit with posts of actual content. She's not off my radar yet, but I have to give credit where credit is due.

I also think Sheep's interaction with Scare was Scum/Town. Didn't Sheep do a similar "This is town Scare. Do not lynch" thing last game? I bet he was trying to pull that trick again and trying to ingratiate himself with Scare. Trying to bus a Scum Scare with the same trick as last game wouldn't work as well if Scare wasn't behaving similarly to the last game. I think Kingmaker made Scare have a different mindset that I'm not quite seeing this game, but I feel like the rest of y'all would've mentioned something if this was clearly not Town Scare. So I'm leaning toward Sheep trying to gain favor with a townie with that tactic of his.

Based off last game, I seem to always think Red is Scum, and I don't think he's been behaving all that differently compared to last game. I'm willing to give him a pass here.

Mzero is Mzero. Wouldn't surprise me if he's town or scum either way. Complete wildcard to me.

Chaeix was someone I initially suspected, but I think he's contributed a fair amount since then. I can't remember what exactly he contributed, but I don't think he was as inactive or fluffy as before. Might need to reread.

Sbell is someone I should definitely reread. Again, I always get him mixed up with Scare, not that I particularly recall either of them doing a whole lot.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Kirby attacked me?

I am now.

Kirby used Flamethrower!

Hi Kirby. You cleared Scare based off of Sheep. Why not try to do the same for Mzero?

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Kirby attacked me?

Maybe I'm overreading the opening post. Or attack is too strong a word. Regardless it would be a particularly strange thought to open with as scum.

Leafeon13N posted...

Maybe I'm overreading the opening post. Or attack is too strong a word. Regardless it would be a particularly strange thought to open with as scum.

I will say I have liked Kirby overall, but in the scum profile that he would have to have in order to be scum this would fit in it. So it's like 'yeah I have liked Kirby for the most part outside of a few things' but also 'but if he is scum this is certainly in his wheelhouse.'

In fact I confess the more I think about Kirby the more concerned I grow because there was a certain interaction that is rubbing me the wrong way in hindsight.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Hi Kirby. You cleared Scare based off of Sheep. Why not try to do the same for Mzero?

Did... Mzero and Sheep have any interactions? I genuinely don't remember them.

I only remember Sheep's "interaction" with Scare because Sheep's first post had the whole "don't lynch Town Scare" thing in like bold letters or something. I specifically remember it because I was going to use the same threat against him when he was voting Plum.

So here is a series of posts in hindsight that make me feel worse about Kirby. From topic 2

Kirby321 posted...

IGCD scares me

Not in a scummy way, but as much as I don't feel good about Corrik, I don't think lynching him is in our best interests. Though I suppose this makes me feel better about IGCD since he exhibited a similar bloodlust against Han last game, though it wasn't as pronounced until later in the game.

I'm still keeping my vote on Sheep until he backs off of Plum, though.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Do you often make it a habit to tell people exactly how to get pressure from you removed from them?

Kirby321 posted...

Uhh... it's an elaborate trap, you see! But don't question it any further or my tricks will be revealed.

Yeah... totally wasn't me just being a dimwit. Nope. Nuh uh. Not at all.

Now if someone suspected Kirby, which I did not at the time and was focused on other people, someone could see this as scum Kirby opening with voting a scumbuddy and then signaling how he was going to move on. Unfortunately for Kirby if he is scum I within like a minute spot this and am like 'excuse me?' and he gives me this.

Then, later on in the topic...

Kirby321 posted...

Ugh sorry I have a nasty headache. I need to take a nap. But I don't feel good about having nothing to say besides the business with Isquen. I'd like to start finalizing our lynch candidate for today given how divided we all are with only 7 hours left.

Chris, do you have anyone else you'd consider for lynch? I read your posts about Ben and Sheep. I didn't quite follow, but I believe it was something about a contradiction in both cases. I'll review it again after my nap since I think it made sense but I just can't think very clearly rn.

I'm not okay with lynching the following. Not today at least:
* Plum (defo Town)
* Chris (hopefully Town)
* Death (seems Town to me)
* Sultan (wildcard)
* Corrik (wildcard)
* Isquen (wildcard)
* HB (probably Town)
* changmas (seems Town to me)
* (begrudgingly) Lea (only because Chris said not to)

I think Ulti should be inspected a bit, because I feel like all he's done is say "x passes/fails the vibe check". But maybe this is in character for him? I don't he was as vibe check-y earlier in the day, so I didn't think he was scummy or out of the ordinary, but now this behavior just seems a tad odd, if I'm remembering correctly.

In hindsight this is just odd. He is voting for Sheep for hopefully reasons. He has called into question a few things from Ben but with a headache he seems to have forgotten everything.

It just gnaws at me a bit and I thought I should go find the quotes to be up front. It's not the worst thing and I have generally liked Kirby as I've said but I have never NOT given a pass to scum day 1 for something flimsy, it's just what I do until I gain more info.

Kirby321 posted...

Did... Mzero and Sheep have any interactions? I genuinely don't remember them.

I only remember Sheep's "interaction" with Scare because Sheep's first post had the whole "don't lynch Town Scare" thing in like bold letters or something. I specifically remember it because I was going to use the same threat against him when he was voting Plum.

When Mzero posted early and Ben said 'Mzero is town', Sheep quoted it and said ben got town points for 'mirroring his thoughts.'

Is that scum calling scum town for having a town read on scum?

Basically the votes make Kirby look good but I kind of glued his vote to Sheep during the night by bringing such a harsh light to it so... yeah.

Also, to be blunt... it's day 3 now. 'Mzero is Mzero' and 'I always think Red is scum so he gets a pass' is... not acceptable to me from the level of thought you gave to last game and in the role PMs I read over as host.

You played one game with red. You were wrong that time, but if you feel the same way now you should be probative and asking him questions and engaging. Frankly the same for Mzero. Giving people a pass and saying their name on day 3 is just not acceptable.

I am concerned.

Oh, right. I remember you had asked for people to comment about that on Day 2. I intended to look back at it but never did since I believe it was late when I had finally caught up. I'll do that now because that's a notable Mzero interaction.

Regarding the posts you pulled from Topic 2, the first case was genuinely me being an idiot. You (rightfully) put it into question, and rather than give a generic "I'm dumb" response, I decided to be a bit overdramatic and ham it up. Like, just to be clear, there was no elaborate trap and I was really just trying to say that, in hindsight, yeah, that was a pretty dumb thing to do. But, understandably, I can see why that would rub you the wrong way.

The second one is a stretch and also a bit of a low blow. That was a rough morning/afternoon for me. Ended up napping for three hours straight and by the time I woke up I simply didn't have the energy to keep caring about the end of the day, especially since Ben and Sheep were pretty much locks by that time. I know it seems oddly convenient that I had a headache around that time, but truth be told my symptoms were already there since Tuesday (really they were subtly there on Monday but I didn't realize how serious it was until the following Tuesday morning), and I really didn't want my health to distract from the game. So all the interactions you had with Ben and Sheep before that post you quoted were still a blur in my mind. As theoretical scum, there would be certain lines I wouldn't cross. Lying about my health is not a line I'd cross.

Oh I believe you about your health, to be clear. It's also just the fact remains that you posted trying to ask for another lynch other than scum # 1 and scum # 2 I already had in my sights. I hope you can appreciate how that looks, I am just saying I can't give you a pass for it just because you were not feeling well.

I apologize if I came off snarky about your health, I was a bit meh this past week myself so I am certainly not trying to do that.

PunishedBen posted... Personally I'm sure Red was just making a joke when he said that. He was posting from his leafeon account when I said "raise your hand if you're a pokemon"

He wasn't going to give up that information as scum or town

Other thing that has been on my mind. Ben pretty much had this exactly right, which likely means scum had this exactly right at the time. Made that comment partly as a joke but partly because I know its something that will get scum attention(And ultimately reveal 0 of my hand, imo). It is a fruit that I expect scum to never bring up if not done immediately(Aside maybe a lategame scenario) but leave hanging for town to pick up.

So plum is pretty safely town.

Also around that time i definitely had a post typed up berating plum but thought better of posting it. Him thinking I'm aloof as scum on top of calling ben town around that time is a double whammy of laughter.

I'm actually way more careful and calculating as scum. As town I'm perfectly happy playing rather aloof til the game dictates otherwise. I think last game you could find multiple instances of me not paying attention to the rather extensive rules the first couple days(By endgame I had combed through them and knew them by heart).

I feel as if I have chastised Plum enough for that, thank you for your restraint.

I am pretty chill letting people be chill until a mislynch. If scum keep dying then what we are doing works, and it may still be a long game ahead for certain people so there's no need to press especially since Arti wants us to believe he plain ass forgot corrik fake scanned him and claimed flavor about it.

Regarding the Mzero-Ben-Sheep interaction... I'm going to be honest, it very much feels like a null-tell to me. Granted I can see the logic of why you brought this up in particular, because Sheep gave Ben town points, but Ben was scum, so why do I think Sheep-Scare is Scum/Town? Really, the only answer I have for that my entire argument about Sheep-Scare hinges on behavior from the previous game, or reallyprevious games since I imagine it extends beyond the single game I played.

To be quite honest, all that interaction looked like to me was Mzero providing a comment about changmas, Ben made a cheeky remark about it, and Sheep bussed Ben off of it. Mzero's comment in particular didn't really stand out to me since it seemed standard fare given what he did the last game. And I believed he was town that game, to the point that it quite literally got me killed. And I don't think I ever dropped the "Mzero is Mzero" argument until it came down to him, Scare, Red, and Death as the remaining scum in my eyes.

To Sheep's credit, he stuck with the Ben bus to the bitter end. I feel like that'd be harder to do with a Scare bus since it can be easily refuted if people start bringing up how Scare isn't acting the same as before. Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but that's my stance on why I believe Scare is likely town based on Sheep's attempt to buddy with him. I don't think the Mzero-Ben-Sheep interaction says much about Mzero than it does about Sheep and Ben, really. Perhaps this is the same point you were trying to convey before?

Kirby321 posted...

Regarding the Mzero-Ben-Sheep interaction... I'm going to be honest, it very much feels like a null-tell to me. Granted I can see the logic of why you brought this up in particular, because Sheep gave Ben town points, but Ben was scum, so why do I think Sheep-Scare is Scum/Town? Really, the only answer I have for that my entire argument about Sheep-Scare hinges on behavior from the previous game, or reallyprevious games since I imagine it extends beyond the single game I played.

To be quite honest, all that interaction looked like to me was Mzero providing a comment about changmas, Ben made a cheeky remark about it, and Sheep bussed Ben off of it. Mzero's comment in particular didn't really stand out to me since it seemed standard fare given what he did the last game. And I believed he was town that game, to the point that it quite literally got me killed. And I don't think I ever dropped the "Mzero is Mzero" argument until it came down to him, Scare, Red, and Death as the remaining scum in my eyes.

To Sheep's credit, he stuck with the Ben bus to the bitter end. I feel like that'd be harder to do with a Scare bus since it can be easily refuted if people start bringing up how Scare isn't acting the same as before. Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but that's my stance on why I believe Scare is likely town based on Sheep's attempt to buddy with him. I don't think the Mzero-Ben-Sheep interaction says much about Mzero than it does about Sheep and Ben, really. Perhaps this is the same point you were trying to convey before?

No, I think it all but clears Mzero due to how scum tend to think and specifically how Ben and Sheep think. Hm. I expected someone who knows Ben would know that Ben would be much more inclined to give praise to town early than scum to feel comfortable and Scare looks good too.

Noted. That's all for now.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Oh I believe you about your health, to be clear. It's also just the fact remains that you posted trying to ask for another lynch other than scum # 1 and scum # 2 I already had in my sights. I hope you can appreciate how that looks, I am just saying I can't give you a pass for it just because you were not feeling well.

I apologize if I came off snarky about your health, I was a bit meh this past week myself so I am certainly not trying to do that.

No, you're fine. I may have gotten a bit defensive there. But my intent with asking for your other lynch candidates may have been misconstrued a tad (mostly with how I phrased my own question, which in hindsight probably gave off the wrong message that I wanted to convey); I anticipated you dying N1, so I wanted to have a list of thoughts from you to reference going into Day 2 onward, especially since it seemed Ben or Sheep was pretty much a lock.

I realize that sounds an awful lot like Ben's reasoning for Neighborizing you... so hopefully that makes it clear why I hesitated on him a bit during Day 2. I genuinely thought it was something Ben would do and would've been a good use of Neighbor if it was town-aligned, though obviously that wasn't the intent Ben had expressed to you based on your anecdotes of the conversations you guys had.

He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his votals, which eventually, of course, he did.
[5] Arti: Ulti, (Isquen), Chris, Plum, Chang, Isquen
[1] Ulti: SBell
[0] Hb: (Isquen)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 votes to reach majority. Day ends at 7pm EDT on Tuesday, roughly 41.5 hours from now.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

No, I think it all but clears Mzero due to how scum tend to think and specifically how Ben and Sheep think. Hm. I expected someone who knows Ben would know that Ben would be much more inclined to give praise to town early than scum to feel comfortable and Scare looks good too.

Noted. That's all for now.

Not the conclusion I would've made, but I can see your line of reasoning. Perhaps I'm still annoyed he never cleared me as town. Hmph.
(I mean I originally said that "Ben never cleared me so he's scum" thing as a joke, but I guess it was right on the money lol)

Kirby321 posted...

Not the conclusion I would've made, but I can see your line of reasoning. Perhaps I'm still annoyed he never cleared me as town. Hmph.
(I mean I originally said that "Ben never cleared me so he's scum" thing as a joke, but I guess it was right on the money lol)

If it makes you feel better I did like you more when I saw that interaction.

Do you think Arti is for sure scum?

Well, between the two flavor cops I'm much more inclined to believe Hb considering that we lynched Sheep after a successful counterclaim, so I'm not necessarily sure what's to be gained by Arti counterclaiming him. Maybe if he claimed a Star Wars flavor cop and not another pokemon (in the sense that they would be flavor cops on alternating nights) it'd be more believable but I'm inclined to believe Arti's scum. What I don't fully get is Corrik's guilty scan on Arti unless Arti targeted him N1? Am I correct in my understanding that psychic gets info when someone targets them? That's what a google says. Anyways happy to vote Arti but I'd like to see some more discussion instead of an early hammer.

I'll admit that I didn't have much of a read on Lea but post 161 rubbed me the absolute wrong way. I don't really like his suspicion of SBell in lieu of discussion of the lurker crew. It felt like alluding to 'well maybe I should discuss this but instead I'm going to put the attention somewhere else'. What's the point of even bringing up the lurker crew? If Lea is scum, this reeks of the same avoiding of my questioning that Ben did. Why did Ben engage in discussion but specifically avoid my question of commenting on the other lurkers? I also happen to agree with SBell's suspicion of Ulti but that's neither here nor there in relation to the read from that post.

Changmas has not impressed me today, especially because of his suspicion of me. Call it defensive but he hadn't mentioned my name until today, conveniently after I pointed out how little he has done while he's been around. From what I've seen so far today he has been around and offered a number of posts but with shockingly little content, and in particular no actual justification for why I might be scum. Then he jumped on the Arti wagon instead of offering any actual thoughts. I get the sense that I'm an easy finger for scum to point at because I'm a bit of an unknown quantity - like what Ben did last day.

I'm also still quite interested in putting pressure on MZero. He had reads Day 1 but failed to actually make any reads Day 2 while he was around, and then just... didn't come back. Where you at MZero? What are your thoughts? My suspicion of him is amplified by Ben's aforementioned failure to comment on any other lurkers despite me asking questions on several occasions.

Corrik wasn't psychic on N1. He had no info on Arti.

red13n posted...

Corrik wasn't psychic on N1. He had no info on Arti.

Ah. Yes. This makes sense.

Starting the ISOing but already I wanted to bring something up

Lopen randomly voted Isquen , which Scare complained about since nobody attacked Lopen for it.
Scare made that complaint way too early for anyone to even have a proper reaction to Lopens vote, which was odd. (Granted. People didnt have a problem with the vote as it turned out)
The only motivation for the vote itself seemed to be Chris questioning Isquen for his Corrik leniency. It does strike me as a scum/town interaction so good for Isquen.
Interestingly Ben agreed with Isquen here, which further adds to my theory. I dont know if scumBen would defend scumIsquen to link themselves so early.
Isquen countervoting Lopen makes me like him even more.

But what I see here is that scum seems to have a lot of trouble with mixing up Ulti with Corrik
Since Ben backtracked his defense of Isquen when he realized he was apparently mixing up Ulti with Corrik. It does add to the vibe that Ulti is not on their side just like Corrik and that they were both confusing the hell out of scum.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Arti, Lea, MZero (hes more inactive than usual, which is his scumtell), and someone in the Kirby/Abacus/Scare group.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Hm. I see. Consensus, inactive time zone, and a motley crew.

So you believe sheep gave town points to scum ben for aaying scum mzero was town despite sheep's turn to bussing eod?

This is exactly the kind of post I shot SBell for in Elden Ring tbh

i mean Ulti's obv

If Arti is scum, I am not sure Changmas is..
If only because Lopen seemed eager to help Chris train him.

htaeD posted...

If Arti is scum, I am not sure Changmas is..
If only because Lopen seemed eager to help Chris train him.

Can you elaborate on this? When did Chris and Lopen train chang? Was it like super early d1 and I've forgotten about it

Too many posts to quote, but it was page 5 of topic 1

Good morning Ulti. Can you give me your thoughts on Jc's posting last night?

Aside: That JC wall looked completely like content for the sake of content

Funny ninja

Oh crap I didn't realize day started. I have a shit ton of catching up to do

Plum I think you are very town. Obviously. Are you ok in general? You have mixed me up with others a lot and you thought I was talking to you when I was addressing Kirby. Little worried about ya