Board 8 > Star Wars and Pokemon Mafia Topic 2 - Attack of the Scum

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't know their backstories but it's other things than that I correlate.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Why wasn't it concerning in psych and my game?

Don't remember. I must have had something more interesting to say. I only brought him up again because I mentioned him earlier today and this was like an ongoing storyline to keep updated.

PunishedBen posted...

Don't remember. I must have had something more interesting to say. I only brought him up again because I mentioned him earlier today and this was like an ongoing storyline to keep updated.

You said always though. But it isn't always. Have you seen a few good men, Ben?

He does always become very clear to me if he's town or scum eventually. And no I unfortunately haven't seen it

Ben, does it make you happy to know you were right and see you day 2 and day 3 is actually stuff I do say, despite your poor retraction of being wrong?

PunishedBen posted...

He does always become very clear to me if he's town or scum eventually. And no I unfortunately haven't seen it

You said it was always concerning not that he always becomes clear.

Heads up that I will be busy this morning
so no proper catch up until later

I'm willing to admit I might well be wrong about Plum. I still don't feel great about him, but he's definitely not being lynched today, and I'd rather my vote not be wasted.

##Unvote

I like the little Corrik meltdown after some needling from IGCD. Makes me feel good about both of them, probably more so Corrik. It feels like a strange rant to go on as scum, even for Corrik, although I can imagine it in fear of a Town Chris. I don't have Han to lean on for my solid IGCD read this game, but he seems to have done several IGCD things overnight. While I normally feel those as null, these particular shenanigans are giving me a gut Town feeling, though I can't place why. Gonna stick them both as slight town leans for now, cause hell if I'm ever gonna figure out their alignments D1.

I feel good about Chris early in a game, for once? It's disturbing me slightly. Just about everything he's done in this topic has been pro-town, and his lines of questioning are getting answers without the potentially pro-scum claim-forcing which often makes me wary. But I am now paranoid that we've got a Scum Chris who just wants to grab the game by the neck early and thrash us. I've resolved to pray it is indeed Town Chris and re-evaluate tomorrow.

Something that also particularly caught my eye while catching up was the Isquen/Lea/HB interaction. I like Lea's point in a vacuum well enough. Isquen having no thought process at all behind half the reads kinda sucks, and I'm puzzled as to why a few players such as Scare, JC, MZero and SBell are entirely absent from the list, but a large chunk of others are shoved on there with no reasoning before or after. Hell, even why some are put in the inactive pile and others are ignored. Abacus sticks out there as a weird one, possibly because I'd expect Isquen to remember those he's actually played with more.

I do, however, also like HB's criticism of Lea a bit more than hers of Isquen. Even more Town points for HB. I did a little bit of wall on the whole thing myself, before realising that HB was just making the same point from a different angle upon a bleary reread of page 4. What I caught onto initially was that she voted Isquen but not Kirby - her explanation was satisfactory, but the particular Isquen vote feels off, even if I agree his post sucked.

Also, I'm a bit weirded out that I haven't remembered an SBell post yet all game. I can understand why he was missing from Isquen's list. I might want a talk with him before deadline, although I'm not thinking it's alignment indicative as of now given I've noticed him well enough as both Town and Scum in the past.

SBell, what're your thoughts on Lea, Kirby and Sultan?

Meltdown?

Hello sheep. I voted for you for a bit and while I raise my eyebrow that apparently every person I question about plum seems to back down as if struck, I will now simply ask for your thoughts on what Ben had to say when I prodded him.

Corrik7 posted...

I could care less about the game right now because it is still literally in the joke phase. The reason it is in the joke phase because Mr. I AM PREPARING FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP SO OBVIOUSLY I COULDNT HAVE ROLLED SCUM scumbucket Chris has dictated the game will be in the joke phase. A serious game by now would have pushed significantly at someone for scum reasons or putted claims of some sort to draw out information to make an educated guess. You are just under 18 hours left in this day, and nothing of note has happened.

You have IGCD sitting here thinking he is actually doing something of not by trying to lynch someone because they are town.

Chris is egging it on from the background while trying to also direct a power role into town as well from the background. Chris is actually doing shit this game besides making the game have nothing of note in it. Har Har everyone make me 38 lists of 57 people of 16 alignments with 0.00000% information besides bullshit so I can sit here and say vibe 389337 times like I am a 12 year old on Tik Tok.

Har Har.

Thats why there is no point to do anything. The game is so filled with nothing so far that the only lynch being tried to be pushed right now is by someone saying the person they are pushing is town.

Sad.

Maybe meltdown is too dramatic. I think rant covered it better, but I do love my hyperbole.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Hello sheep. I voted for you for a bit and while I raise my eyebrow that apparently every person I question about plum seems to back down as if struck, I will now simply ask for your thoughts on what Ben had to say when I prodded him.

I think he stumbled over himself a fair bit and got caught up in semantics, but I don't think I can take much from that other than he felt he was under pressure from you. I haven't thought Ben was highly Town once in early D1 since mafia restarted, and that's not changed this game, but I don't take particular issue with any of what he said.

Sheep007 posted...

I think he stumbled over himself a fair bit and got caught up in semantics, but I don't think I can take much from that other than he felt he was under pressure from you. I haven't thought Ben was highly Town once in early D1 since mafia restarted, and that's not changed this game, but I don't take particular issue with any of what he said.

Do you think it tracks that a town Ben who stated that he was waiting for me to suspect him like I often do day one as the reason why he hasn't engaged with me more would stumble over himself when the stated expected suspicion comes? If so, why do you believe that follows?

I do enjoy suspecting Ben early I confess, but his reaction has struck me as off. Most of the time I will interact and be able to let go of my thoughts but here it only makes me want to grip them tighter to me.

Notably i feel as if your response to me is very... measured. Is that truly all you have to say in the case of Ben right now? What in this game is particularly of issue to you at present? Other than an admitted tired man in isquen getting lazy and hitting post before checking his work.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Do you think it tracks that a town Ben who stated that he was waiting for me to suspect him like I often do day one as the reason why he hasn't engaged with me more would stumble over himself when the stated expected suspicion comes? If so, why do you believe that follows?

I do enjoy suspecting Ben early I confess, but his reaction has struck me as off. Most of the time I will interact and be able to let go of my thoughts but here it only makes me want to grip them tighter to me.

Notably i feel as if your response to me is very... measured. Is that truly all you have to say in the case of Ben right now? What in this game is particularly of issue to you at present? Other than an admitted tired man in isquen getting lazy and hitting post before checking his work.

Frankly, I don't think Ben is great under pressure. He usually jumps all over the place a lot before landing on something that makes everyone go "oh yeah he's Town". I think his reaction isn't great, but nothing about it makes me wanna go "fuck fuck kill it with fire" either. We're in a position where I feel like your questioning of Ben is very pro-town and I'm content to let it flow as it will unless something that makes me wanna full-on murder him or say he's Town comes up.

I'll admit I'm struggling a fair bit to find scum reads this game - I feel decent about the most active players, and nobody has caught my eye so badly as to make me wanna murder them. I think the only post all game that made me think "yo wtf is up with that" was Plum's vote - probably not helped by my being asleep during highest activity rn, since I get a lot of my reads from interaction. I'm happy with my little collection of townreads so far, and I'm hoping I'll be able to build some strong scumreads when we get more info towards the end of the day.

Sheep007 posted...

I'm willing to admit I might well be wrong about Plum. I still don't feel great about him, but he's definitely not being lynched today, and I'd rather my vote not be wasted.

Can I get a second opinion here? This couplet feels extremely forced. Would sheep really be concerned about waiting votes with over 12 hours left? That feels like an hour left rationals not this far out. Am I getting lynched today? Probably not, but if sheep honestly thought I was scum I would think him holding the line longer would encourage people to investigate me instead of moving his vote to *checks post again* nobody

Hm. Very well. I expect better of you and I am concerned for your alignment because of it but there is plenty of time to find your footing and either confirm my suspicions or assuage them.

What in particular made you unvote plum at the top of your post without explanation if it was the thing that has stood out the most to you? Why did you say with certainty that he wasn't being lynched? You are a formidable and trusted player. Do you feel for some reason less confident in your ability to push back against others?

Second opinion free of charge, plum my friend.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Hm. Very well. I expect better of you and I am concerned for your alignment because of it but there is plenty of time to find your footing and either confirm my suspicions or assuage them.

What in particular made you unvote plum at the top of your post without explanation if it was the thing that has stood out the most to you? Why did you say with certainty that he wasn't being lynched? You are a formidable and trusted player. Do you feel for some reason less confident in your ability to push back against others?

You're both right that if I had a strong scumread on him I'd have stuck about. As it is, it's gut that I'm shaky on, coupled with one really, really damn bad vote. My initial vote was primarily based on the crappy Kirby vote from him (post #330 last topic, if you're interested, and the interaction starts from the top of that page). As I believe I said at the time, I think it's a lazy read of Kirby's post at best, but my first instinct was that it's scum jumping on after the Lopen post.

I have multiple players who I would consider good at reading Plum saying he's Town, and Kirby himself thinks that vote was in character, so I think my instinct was likely wrong. I'd rather listen to strong reads from players whose abilities I trust and try adjust my own rather than falling into potential confirmation bias. If I had stronger feelings on Plum than I do, or more come up in future, I'd adjust my read and push accordingly, but as it is I'd rather take my vote off to signal my intentions.

Hm. Sheep you haven't read topic one have you?

Apologies. I meant the first post of this topic when I asked that question.

Sheep007 posted...

Also, I'm a bit weirded out that I haven't remembered an SBell post yet all game. I can understand why he was missing from Isquen's list. I might want a talk with him before deadline, although I'm not thinking it's alignment indicative as of now given I've noticed him well enough as both Town and Scum in the past.

SBell, what're your thoughts on Lea, Kirby and Sultan?

morning. I was confused by not being on isquens list after being directly mentioned by him. I chalked it off to him forgetting.

Lea, as abrasive as I remember. no read yet.

Kirby, too many walls, not enough content. I'd be lying if I said I read them all.

Sultan, as Ben stated, he town clears himself. I know his play pretty well. I am not convinced Sultan is town this game, yet. could it be he's riding the wave of victory still from last game and it's influencing his posts? perhaps. well see.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Apologies. I meant the first post of this topic when I asked that question.

Putting myself in your shoes, I get the concern. I'd be rightfully worried if Chang or someone turned around and started trying to lynch Scare. That said, I'm gonna vote if a particular post catches my eye. Sometimes you're gonna think that vote is wrong, and sometimes my instinct is gonna be wrong. That's mafia for ya.

Obellisk posted...

Sultan, as Ben stated, he town clears himself. I know his play pretty well. I am not convinced Sultan is town this game, yet. could it be he's riding the wave of victory still from last game and it's influencing his posts? perhaps. well see.

I think Sultan's alignment becomes most clear when he claims, so I do kinda agree with the clearing himself thing. That said, I think his abrasiveness this game is more typical of Town Sultan, whereas his Scum self hid a little more.

Sheep007 posted...

I think Sultan's alignment becomes most clear when he claims, so I do kinda agree with the clearing himself thing. That said, I think his abrasiveness this game is more typical of Town Sultan, whereas his Scum self hid a little more.

I can usually sort him out before a claim. and while I agree with you here I'm just not sold based on what I've seen. would I lynch him today? definitely not. But he's on my watch list till I've confirmed it for myself.

I can't say I've played with JC much, but I'm re-reading the start of this topic and wondered with his little Scare interaction: what's his play typically like?

Obellisk posted...

I can usually sort him out before a claim. and while I agree with you here I'm just not sold based on what I've seen. would I lynch him today? definitely not. But he's on my watch list till I've confirmed it for myself.

We could always skip the being mildly suspicious of him and just get a claim?

Sheep007 posted...

We could always skip the being mildly suspicious of him and just get a claim?

I'm not claim heavy day 1.

if we had someone dead to rights I'd of course listen to a claim but it's still so early and there are many players. our chance of lynching scum day 1 are already low. I don't think Sultan claiming is going to change that especially with him not being a prime candidate.

with all that said, by all means, do what you need to do to sus out the scums.

Additional thoughts to put on the page:

red is town
corrik is town

don't lynch them today.

While myself and Chris have been on the topic I think this is most relevant now, and I didn't specifically ask earlier. Isquen, why did you put me in your "scummy" list? I'm nosy and a little self-centered so I'd love to know exactly where your opinion comes from. All the rest of them would be nice too! But I'm mostly interested in me. And hell, let's take your one on Plum while we're here.

Obellisk posted...

Additional thoughts to put on the page:

red is town
corrik is town

don't lynch them today.

How'd you arrive at Red being Town from ~10 posts?

Sheep007 posted...

We could always skip the being mildly suspicious of him and just get a claim?

Sheep007 posted...

I feel good about Chris early in a game, for once? It's disturbing me slightly. Just about everything he's done in this topic has been pro-town, and his lines of questioning are getting answers without the potentially pro-scum claim-forcing which often makes me wary. But I am now paranoid that we've got a Scum Chris who just wants to grab the game by the neck early and thrash us. I've resolved to pray it is indeed Town Chris and re-evaluate tomorrow.

Sheep I am going to be blunt. If I have any sort of killing power on my person that allows me to target you tonight I am going to use it the second day is over at this juncture. I may or may not have this action, but wow.

Sheep007 posted...

How'd you arrive at Red being Town from ~10 posts?

things in those ten posts aligned with my own thoughts.

And basing it off of last game where red was town and I see 0 difference in play.

Someone is going to have to talk me off of Sheep being scum here that's not his scumbuddy ben because boy does this not resemble the town Sheep I know.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Sheep I am going to be blunt. If I have any sort of killing power on my person that allows me to target you tonight I am going to use it the second day is over at this juncture. I may or may not have this action, but wow.

I fail to see how the posts you highlighted relate to this. My finding you forcing claims scary regardless of your alignment has no relationship to a shitpost about wanting Sultan to claim and you know it.

Sheep007 posted...

I fail to see how the posts you highlighted relate to this. My finding you forcing claims scary regardless of your alignment has no relationship to a shitpost about wanting Sultan to claim and you know it.

One moment.

Sbell, hello there! Did you read Sheep's post as a 'shitpost'?

Yeah im okay with this.

##vote:Ben

I have no idea why Ben is tunneling on me so much. I really have not posted that much, like what do you exspect? Do you want me to randomly yell in my first post im Town power?

Also anyone who happens to stumble in may also answer this. I did not read it as a shitpost but perhaps I have misunderstood and others will agree with Sheep's stance that it was a shitpost.

This IGCD seems like the IGCD town that I've liked. For now IGCD is in my town pile

If I wanted Sultan to claim I'd be voting him. I outlined he was a town lean two posts prior.

You did, which makes it worse that you appear to be prodding someone into maybe forcing a claim. He soundly rejected that but if he had asked Sultan for a claim and then Sultan had decided "you know what, I like sbell, screw it" and claimed right when he came in then a scum sheep would have gotten a claim for nothing.

It's okay sheep, more interested in Ben today. Hope you're mafia BP, bud.

Also Ben i am Offended you are comparing me to Tidus. How rude and it totally looks like an excuse for your poor tunnel.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Also Ben i am Offended you are comparing me to Tidus. How rude and it totally looks like an excuse for your poor tunnel.

That's my town MVP!

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Sbell, hello there! Did you read Sheep's post as a 'shitpost'?

certainly speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

Thanks sbell.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Do you want me to randomly yell in my first post im Town power?

if you are 100% un-nightkillable, yes. Every single time.

Ok, I've got an insane work day today, will try to follow, will show back up around end of day and I expect good arguments for whichever 2 or 3 people are leading the lynch.

Cheers.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Someone is going to have to talk me off of Sheep being scum here that's not his scumbuddy ben because boy does this not resemble the town Sheep I know.

Embrace the hate

##unvote
##vote:sheep

If Chris is also seeing what I'm seeing I feel good about it.

So first off, apologies that I was absent yesterday afternoon. Personal stuff popped up and I had to take care of that.

Secondly, there are 293 unread posts in this topic as of writing this post. It'll take me a bit to get through all of them. Before I do, I wanted to respond to this from las topic since it was directed at me and I will forget about it if I don't.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Violent Abacus here is a question for you - Why would you take my lead if you have never played with me before? Seems like a strange decision.

Because I want to win as town, really. But I can do more in depth.

I want to clarify, because I didn't say it, that when I said take your lead I mainly meant for the first day. And I specified you, but that's because everyone has sung your praise & because you have been one of the few people that have been able to make their point without hurling unnecessary insults.

Why I'm okay letting other people lead (for day one) in general is because I'm going to be abysmal on my day 1 reads. Nothing has happened from a game standpoint, and the majority of posts are calling out how people have played in previous games versus this game for their basis of why someone is or isn't scum. I don't have this frame of reference. On top of that I'm bad at reading people in the best of times. So for the interest of winning why wouldn't I let players that have better references/things, and that are outright better than me,

It also doesn't help that either action I took yesterday, I got called scum:
Someone calls me out for being inactive, I try to do what I can, and then get called scum because my posts aren't analytical enough and that I shouldn't post.

ViolentAbacus posted...

So first off, apologies that I was absent yesterday afternoon. Personal stuff popped up and I had to take care of that.

Secondly, there are 293 unread posts in this topic as of writing this post. It'll take me a bit to get through all of them. Before I do, I wanted to respond to this from las topic since it was directed at me and I will forget about it if I don't.

Because I want to win as town, really. But I can do more in depth.

I want to clarify, because I didn't say it, that when I said take your lead I mainly meant for the first day. And I specified you, but that's because everyone has sung your praise & because you have been one of the few people that have been able to make their point without hurling unnecessary insults.

Why I'm okay letting other people lead (for day one) in general is because I'm going to be abysmal on my day 1 reads. Nothing has happened from a game standpoint, and the majority of posts are calling out how people have played in previous games versus this game for their basis of why someone is or isn't scum. I don't have this frame of reference. On top of that I'm bad at reading people in the best of times. So for the interest of winning why wouldn't I let players that have better references/things, and that are outright better than me,

It also doesn't help that either action I took yesterday, I got called scum:
Someone calls me out for being inactive, I try to do what I can, and then get called scum because my posts aren't analytical enough and that I shouldn't post.

This is a fairly reasonable response. Just try to make solid points and don't worry about people swaying with the wind on you, there are very few people in this community who can strongarm a lynch out of nothing and one of them has no interest in you at present beyond checking in on you. Also remember even wrong reads done in a genuine manner can be useful in later days if you are town to clear you, so just try your best to read up!