Board 8 > Rank the Tracks Week 62: Taylor Swift's Folklore (+ Hotel California results)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points. For albums with greater than 15 tracks, everything ranked below #15 will be given 0 points and the scale for the top 15 will be the same as a 15-track album. For albums with more than 20 tracks, you only have to list your top 15 (with 16-20, I still like having the average rank listed)
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, May 15 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to the user cycle - the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).

Taylor Swift - Folklore:
1. The 1
2. Cardigan
3. The Last Great American Dynasty
4. Exile
5. My Tears Ricochet
6. Mirrorball
7. Seven
8. August
9. This Is Me Trying
10. Illicit Affairs
11. Invisible String
12. Mad Woman
13. Epiphany
14. Betty
15. Peace
16. Hoax

User Cycle:
5/15: firefdr (Linkin Park - Hybrid Theory)
5/22: Johnbobb (Mos Def - Black on Both Sides)
5/29: VeryInsane
6/5: CasanovaZelos
6/12: Seanchan
6/19: Giggsalot
6/26: RyoCaliente
7/3: darkx
7/10: neonreaper
7/17: Great_Paul
7/24: jcgamer107
7/31: ChichiriMuyo
8/7: BlueCrystalTear
8/14: MetalmindStats
8/21: HBJDubs
8/28: Raetsel_Lapin
9/4: TheArkOfTurus
9/11: Steiner
9/18: Snake5555555555
9/25: Jesse_Custer
10/2: ZaziGuado

Eagles - Hotel California results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
BlueCrystalTear (8)
ZeroSignal620 (8)
neonreaper (10)
MetalmindStats (10)
Jesse_Custer (12)
Seanchan (12)
CasanovaZelos (14)
Snake5555555555 (14)
HBJDubs (16)
Raetsel_Lapin (24)

General Album Comments

Seanchan: Already did a first listen to Hotel California. Obviously I've heard the title track before; it's a absolute classic. The rest of the album kinda failed to grab me though, which I wasn't expecting.

CasanovaZelos: Hotel California is one of my prime examples of a classic album I keep trying and failing to appreciate. The title track is a certified classic, and I don't think there's anything weak here, but there's little that really grabs me otherwise. It's a pretty good album that is always treated as one of the all-time greats and I have probably listened to it at least a dozen times and I just don't see it.

Snake5555555555: Eagles might be my favorite band in which I don't have any attachment to at least one particular album; Hotel California comes the closest to fully capturing what the Eagles are all about however - they're funky, they're country, and when they need to - they rock and they rock hard. Whether you like or resonate with this sound or not, you have to admit just how tight and precisely written all the tracks here are. I've always liked how the Eagles trade off vocal duties - it gives the album such a lively and varied feel and makes each song memorable and distinct in their own ways, from the soft rock ballads like Wasted Time to the epic surrealist journey of Hotel California - like going on a road trip with your best buddies and getting each person's unique perspective on a different facet of the experience. It's an album soaked in night time chilly desert sands, rock-and-roll romance, and ultimately facing up to ones' mortality and effect on the world. If the Eagles were trying to capture a moment of place and time - I think they succeeded in spades and I think it's why it resonates with millions of people worldwide to this day.

Steiner: if i listen to this it will be the first time i've heard the eagles that is not hotel california

Seanchan (responding to Steiner): I thought it was the same boat for me but, you've probably heard Life in the Fast Lane before. They also have a few other songs, not on this album, that I was familiar with but didn't know they were Eagles songs.

BlueCrystalTear: Ive always thought of this album as Don Henleys masterpiece, even though it was his "brother" - the late great Glenn Frey - who was getting into shouting matches and altercations with the other band members during the tumultuous time of turnover. I would think that the conflicts actually fueled Henley and Frey's musical creativity and helped contribute such a fantastic direction, since they didn't listen to Bernie Leadon (who left because they weren't going to do another Desperado). I think the fighting fueled the passion, which always contributes to success. The whole album is fun and does the good moods and the not-so-good moods well. At least at this point, the guys were able to work harmoniously together to produce something awesome.

neonreaper: I am having a hard time giving this album a write up. To me I guess it captures a 20something vibe, girls and booze and responsibilities and trying to come to grips with big thoughts about the big world. It's like going on an adventure while recapping the adventure and realizing that the adventures are coming to an end, or, something. I've never really looked up what any of these songs mean so you could tell me they're all about Vietnam, I wouldn't know.

Seanchan: This one grew on me a bit from repeated listens. It never really lives up to the title track, and I certainly wouldn't call it a favorite by any means, but there's a certain pretty, listenability to it.

Hotel California track ranking

9. Pretty Maids All in a Row (Track #7)
Score: 25 (Average Rank: 7.5/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, HBJDubs (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): Jesse_Custer, Seanchan, MetalmindStats (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: The silence is unnecessary and the shortness of this one gets drowned out by those around it. It's still good though!

8. Wasted Time (Reprise) (Track #5)
Score: 31 (Average Rank: 7.1/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, Snake5555555555, neonreaper, ZeroSignal620, HBJDubs (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: If we're really separating them; AFAIK the band no longer does.

7. Victim of Love (Track #6)
Score: 37 (Average Rank: 6.4/9)
Biggest Fan(s): HBJDubs (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): BlueCrystalTear (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: This one is forgettable because of just how great the rest is. That and this was primarily Don Felder's song, so Henley didn't have the same passion for it that he does his own compositions.

6. Try and Love Again (Track #8)
Score: 46 (Average Rank: 5.7/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Snake5555555555 (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Jesse_Custer, Raetsel_Lapin (#8)

BlueCrystalTear: The only Randy Meisner vocal here. It's not Take It to the Limit but it's almost there.

5. The Last Resort (Track #9)
Score: 51 (Average Rank: 5.4/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Jesse_Custer, MetalmindStats (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#9)

BlueCrystalTear: While it goes on a little too long, its still epic, and I honestly feel bad putting it this low.

4. New Kid in Town (Track #2)
Score: 60 (Average Rank: 4.4/9)
Biggest Fan(s): neonreaper, ZeroSignal620 (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): HBJDubs (#8)

BlueCrystalTear: Its surprising that this is the only Glenn Frey vocal on here, and that alone makes it a standout since its among his best.

3. Wasted Time (Track #4)
Score: 69 (Average Rank: 4/9)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos (#8)

BlueCrystalTear: Underrated Don Henley ballad. The instrumental outro (originally separated due to LP restrictions) punctuates it, too.

2. Life in the Fast Lane (Track #3)
Score: 76 (Average Rank: 3.3/9)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, Seanchan, HBJDubs (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#6)

BlueCrystalTear: A song that somehow manages to mix the thrills of drug dealing with the eventual placation one feels. Probably because of the drugs themselves.

1. Hotel California (Track #1)
Score: 125 (Average Rank: 1.2/9)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, Jesse_Custer, Snake5555555555, BlueCrystalTear, neonreaper, Seanchan, ZeroSignal620, HBJDubs, MetalmindStats (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#3)

BlueCrystalTear: Like those guitars. The theme. All the good stuff.

VeryInsane on this week's choices:

Frank Ocean - Blonde

Tough choice between this and Channel Orange, I slightly prefer this even if I think the latter is more accessible, R+B with very deeply personal lyrics and excellent sound mixing.

Japanese Breakfast -Jubilee

My favorite Album of 2021, good dream pop album

The Mountain Goats - The Sunset Tree

Probably one of, if not my favorite live experience. Loved seeing them live. My personal favorite album by Darnielle and friends, its a neat folkish low fi album.

So I believe this make Taylor Swift the second repeat artist in this series, the first being The Beatles.

I was going to nominate The Sunset Tree myself in an upcoming poll, glad to see it here!

It's kind of a shame The Lakes isn't included in the original tracklist.

Did a first listen to Folklore. It was certainly less pop-y than Speak Now. Kinda felt a bit one note, but I think a lot of that is just that it's 16 songs and an hour long, and my mind started to wander by the end.

Yeah I'm just gonna say outright that I don't agree with the overwhelming opinion that this is her best album. In fact I don't even think I'd put it in my top 3.

I wouldn't either (it doesn't even make top 5 for me). I do also think it gets a little one note in spots musically even if Swift's lyrical writing never really falters here. That's where I think the sister album follow-up Evermore shines even brighter because there's more texture and vibrant musical soundscapes than Folklore.

My choices for next week will likely include an album that does not yet exist.

Smile?!

Snake5555555555 posted...

Smile?!

Like, The Beach Boys' Smile? That essentially exists at this point, right?

Yeah, I know, it's still just the first album I think of when I think of lost albums or albums that don't exist!

In this case, it's an album being released this week. I wanted to do my three favorite albums of 2022 so far and I'm hoping Kendrick Lamar's new album cracks that space - I also think it would be fun to do an album while it's still in the spotlight. Especially with no singles (since I doubt The Heart Part 5 is on the album), it will be an interesting ranking experience.

I already have two albums from this year that probably cracked my all-time top 250 and quite a gulf until #3. So, here's hoping Kendrick doesn't suddenly disappoint.

That would be interesting I agree. Can't wait to see your picks!

I was considering doing Kendrick if it came out Friday before but since it didnt I just went with what I had

1: this is me trying
2: cardigan
3: exile
4: the last great american dynasty
5: mad woman
6: betty
7: mirrorball
8: seven
9: my tears ricochet
10: illicit affairs
11: hoax
12: august
13: the 1
14: peace
15: epiphany
16: invisible string

I highly enjoyed this album, but it does feel a bit too long.

Still need to get around to re-listening to Folklore.

As for this week's choices, I love all three. I'm going to see Japanese Breakfast this summer and am very hyped.

Second listen done.

I figured out what my "problem" is with this album. As someone who typically doesn't care very much about lyrics, this is an exhausting album! Sixteen songs and there's really not too much here other than the lyrics. So when my mind starts to wander, there are no solos, riffs, beats, or whatever to bring me back. It's like I've got to pay attention the entire time.

Everything here feels like it's the same tempo and about the same subject (young love, unrequited young love, young love falling apart). I could feel myself latching onto anything different, which is why I already know what my #1 song is going to be. Swift has got a nice voice but I just need more variety, which Speak Now definitely had more of.

Like I said when not voting for it, this album is VERY same-y. Sure, it's a course-correction from reputation and Lover, but it still doesn't compare to the sheer delight of Fearless, Speak Now, and Red. All those albums had those "young love" themes too (and the latter two had Taylor blasting some of her critics) and yet were an engaging listen because of the variety. Like Seanchan said, this album requires concentrated effort to process fully. It's exhaustingly long (especially for a dark and repetitive album) and would benefit from cutting four tracks. It's for this reason that I expect many of the later tracks to be ranked lowly, since people start tuning out. Track order absolutely matters on an album this redundant.

I can't see myself giving this a second listen this week. I've heard this album twice before this and half of these songs are still indistinguishable. Once you hit a certain point, they all blend together, and not in a good way. Speak Now is a much superior album and that's my hill to die on. The only song on this album that gave me shades of "Old Taylor" was "betty" and that's precisely why it's #1 for me. "this is me trying" was... relatable AF for me. Honestly my top 5 (maybe 6?) is all that matters and everything after that all blends together. And tbh... I'm feeling sedated by too much doom and gloom.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to take a nap.

1. betty
2. this is me trying
3. the last great american dynasty
4. cardigan
5. exile
6. august
7. mad woman
8. the 1
9. mirrorball
10. illicit affairs (a million little times)
11. invisible string
12. hoax
13. my tears ricochet
14. peace
15. 7
16. epiphany

1.) Cardigan
2.) Exile
3.) August
4.) My Tears Ricochet
5.) Illicit Affairs
6.) Betty
7.) The 1
8.) This is Me Trying
9.) Peace
10.) Mirrorball
11.) Mad Woman
12.) The Last Great American Dynasty
13.) Hoax
14.) Epiphany
15.) Seven
16.) Invisible String

BONUS TRACK: The Lakes would be 3.5 on this list

I dont know about the idea that there are a lot of songs about young love on here. Theres the Cardigan/August/Betty trilogy about all three sides of a young love triangle, but thats all I see. Invisible String is trite enough to count I suppose. All the other songs about relationships are more mature and reflective. TLGAD, My Tears Ricochet, Seven, Mad Woman, Epiphany, [The Lakes,] arent about romance at all.

If you want more variety you would love Evermore!

Seven is a particular stand-out for me since it's about child abuse and on top of that written from a second-hand perspective. Swift has written about childhood before but never quite like that. It's impressive and mixes darkness with childhood innocence and naivety so-well.

I think Folklore can serve two purposes. For me it's most often a mood album where I put it on to decompress. While I wouldn't call it one-note, I will say each song does a really good at evoking a wistful nostalgia that can lend to the tracks bleeding together. But I personally think there's a beauty in that. I've listened to the album enough to where each song can stand on its own, though, and I think they are rankable if you are listening to it with that goal in mind. For those who choose to actively listen to the stories Swift is telling, I think the album is a masterclass in songwriting and very memorable from a lyrical standpoint.

I will concede it gets long. I would personally chop off three songs and then I think you have a nigh-perfect album if you are in a certain mood.

bump

Snake5555555555 posted...

Seven is a particular stand-out for me since it's about child abuse and on top of that written from a second-hand perspective. Swift has written about childhood before but never quite like that. It's impressive and mixes darkness with childhood innocence and naivety so-well.

I do like the song, but I feel like she's writing from the perspective of someone much younger than seven years old. Four or five, maybe, but seven feels way too old to be blaming abuse on ghosts or dreaming about living as a pirate. Though I suppose I'll concede that my perspective is a bit skewed for *reasons* and refrain from pushing the issue any further.

Seanchan posted...

I figured out what my "problem" is with this album. As someone who typically doesn't care very much about lyrics, this is an exhausting album! Sixteen songs and there's really not too much here other than the lyrics. So when my mind starts to wander, there are no solos, riffs, beats, or whatever to bring me back. It's like I've got to pay attention the entire time.

Everything here feels like it's the same tempo and about the same subject

Ah, see, I'm the exact opposite way. I tend to get drawn into songs for their lyrics and emotions, so I found this album to be one of the more interesting ones we've covered and probably better than Speak Now--I recall feeling Speak Now had way too many songs about exes and getting a bit monotonous at times as a result, but I'll concede that I haven't listened to the album in a while and would need a refresher to accurately compare the two.

Anywho... I think the album covered a lot of ground? Portraying a love triangle from all three perspectives was relatively novel, even if "cardigan" was the only part of the trilogy that I loved, and I feel like most of tracks offered a distinct enough experience. I just think the album was too much of a good thing; I love what she's doing here, but I don't really want to sit through what she's doing for over an hour straight. I'd honestly prefer to have this album broken into two weeks, with 8 songs per week--not because I don't like it, but it's just a bit much. I want to take my time and fully experience the emotions on display here, but there's just <i>so very much</i> here that the album feels less than the sum of its parts.

...still, I really did enjoy it and think it's close to the top-tier albums we've ever covered here. Just... kinda long.

Still wrapping my head around Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers this morning. A problem I've realized with doing my top 3 albums of the year so far is, if this lands there, I have two albums in the 70-80 minute range with 18-20 tracks. I have two other possible weeks in mind that maybe I should consider instead.

Basically, these are my three weeks that I've been jumping between:

My top 3 this year so far:
Big Thief - Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe in You
Black Country, New Road - Ants from Up There
either Wet Leg - Wet Leg or Kendrick Lamar - Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers (or maybe Spiritualized's new album)

I'm leaning more toward Wet Leg currently because I'd rather tackle more recent acts hitting their peaks (...and I'd rather us get to To Pimp a Butterfly eventually and don't want people to be dissuaded by him having two albums already)

late 2000s electronic:
Portishead - Third
Fever Ray - Fever Ray
Burial - Untrue

Since Silent Shout came out on top of our most recent Rank the Albums, I figure it might be a good idea to do a darkly atmospheric electronic album from the same era (including the lead singer's solo debut)

Recentish Queer Albums:
SOPHIE - Oil of Every Pearl's Un-Insides
Perfume Genius - Set My Heart on Fire Immediately
Fever Ray - Plunge

I mainly just want to cover SOPHIE at some point, but this also gets a Fever Ray appearance for anyone wanting more from The Knife and these are three artists who have really inspired me in several ways

Anyone have strong opinions toward any of these options?

Wet Leg would get a lock from me. Friggin' excellent album.

CasanovaZelos posted...

I have two albums in the 70-80 minute range with 18-20 tracks

Yeah, with albums like that, I tend to listen to them only once, maybe twice. I only listened to folklore once because of its length mixed with its tone. An even longer album would deter me from really doing this properly.

I really can't express my opinion on any of these as none of them are my kind of music. I may also not bother ranking them if I can't get into them, but I will certainly give them a try.

1. exile
---
2. august
3. the last great american dynasty
4. my tears ricochet
---
5. invisible string
6. this is me trying
7. the 1
8. cardigan
9. hoax
---
10. epiphany
11. betty
12. illicit affairs
---
13. mirrorball
14. seven
---
15. peace
16. mad woman

Tiered the tracks as well just for fun. Exile has been number one for awhile now and I don't think anything else on the album could knock it off that perch. I really love the contrasting layers between Swift and Vernon. Peace and Mad Woman are the easy weak points for me on the album as well. I just find them a little on the boring side and represent spots where the album starts to really show its length. Everything in between are varying degrees of great, though the front half of the album is definitively stronger than the back half, which also doesn't help stave off how long the album can feel. I don't normally have an issue with this given how and when I listen to it, but I can't deny it.

I think part of why this and Evermore vibe with me more than most of the earlier Taylor Swift albums is the presence of Aaron Dessner as a producer. There are several songs here which sound like a perfect midpoint between Swift and The National - and as someone who prefers the latter, this works great. I do agree this feels longer than it should, and the front half feels notably stronger. Nevertheless, it casts Swift in a more mature light. Additionally, its somber mood helps solidify its place as one of the leading COVID response albums - not that it directly acknowledges the pandemic, but its sparse atmosphere feels like a direct reflection of those first few months in lockdown. And even if it could stand to lose a few tracks, the top half for me here are all great.

My track ranking:
Exile
The Last Great American Dynasty
Betty
Mirrorball
Cardigan
Invisible String
The 1
My Tears Ricochet
Seven
This Is Me Trying
Mad Woman
August
Peace
Epiphany
Illicit Affairs
Hoax

Gonna assume youve heard Renegade because its another great Taylor/The National collab

Can I switch "exile" with "the last great american dynasty" on my ranking, or is my submission final?

I forget because I haven't seen anybody do this; it's really no big deal. It's just that I'm remembering "exile" better after a couple days.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Can I switch "exile" with "the last great american dynasty" on my ranking, or is my submission final?

I forget because I haven't seen anybody do this; it's really no big deal. It's just that I'm remembering "exile" better after a couple days.

Sure, though reposting the full ranking will be helpful.

Here ya go:

1. betty
2. this is me trying
3. exile
4. cardigan
5. the last great american dynasty
6. august
7. mad woman
8. the 1
9. mirrorball
10. illicit affairs (a million little times)
11. invisible string
12. hoax
13. my tears ricochet
14. peace
15. 7
16. epiphany

I'm overall happy with this. Thanks!

1. Exile
2. The 1
3. Betty
4. The Last Great American Dynasty
5. Cardigan
6. August
7. This Is Me Trying
8. Illicit Affairs
9. Mirrorball
10. My Tears Ricochet
11. Invisible String
12. Seven
13. Mad Woman
14. Peace
15. Epiphany
16. Hoax

I liked this a bit more on my 3rd listen. Maybe the dreary, cloudy atmosphere of the day was a better fit for the album. There's actually a lot to like about Folklore, even if it's not as "fun" as her earlier album that we covered. It's definitely 3-4 songs too long though.

I went back to listen to Speak Now a bit, as I tried to figure out where this fits in my album rankings. I still like that one more but it's closer than I would have initially expected.

Cardigan
Exile
Epiphany
This Is Me Trying
Hoax
My Tears Ricochet
The 1
Mirrorball
Seven
August
Peace
The Last Great American Dynasty
Mad Woman
Illicit Affairs
Invisible String
Betty

Final day to vote

August
Cardigan
The Last Great American Dynasty
mirrorball
Exile
betty
The 1
invisible string
my tears ricochet
peace
this is me trying
seven
mad woman
illicit affairs
hoax
Epiphany

my ranking got deleted so going a bit by memory

Was a good album though! Remembered enjoying it when it came out

1. seven
2. the last great american dynasty
3. august
4. exile
5. betty
6. the 1
7. cardigan
8. this is me trying
9. invisible string
10. mirrorball
11. my tears ricochet
12. mad woman
13. illicit affairs
14. epiphany
15. peace
16. hoax

With about ten similarly strong songs producing a potently tempered ambiance, I likely would have been over the moon about folklore had it been a bit shorter. As it is, the tracks that I felt leaned into its title and theme the most (mainly seven and the last great american dynasty) gained a sort of tiebreaking edge.