Poll of the Day > Seriously, where are these teachers!?

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/0/AAckHXAADMPa.jpg

And who are these people!?

To be fair, teachers weren't teaching taxes, growing food, effective communication, and entrepreneurship 30 years ago either.

To be perfectly honest, teachers weren't teaching much of anything 30 years ago. And I doubt that's changed now.

We really need to start putting our childrens best interest and their future at the forefront of some of this decision making and not politics.

Would have been nice to have learned about ANY of this stuff from school

The state wants most people to be submissive and dependent on them.

I was a 3rd grade teacher (Also taught 1st and 5th a bit) and we certainly did teach things, the reason I taught those grades is the developmental skills you learn at that point provide you the tools to learn anything you want later on.

After elementary teachers only get a small window each day with a very large group of kids. I didn't want to try teaching 200+ kids a day, I felt I would not be able to make enough difference in individuals lives like that, so it's not always the teachers fault if students don't learn much.

Also we are forced to teach specific things, we do have (or at least did, I hear it's harder now) some leeway in HOW we teach it, but you generally have to follow a specific guideline on what you teach each year.

As a 3rd grade teacher I focused on helping the students who were behind (about 1/3rd of each class) catch up for the first half of the year and usually had different groups that I would create assignments for. I also provided puzzles and challenges for students who were ahead of the class so they did not get bored.

I did have 1 student (IN THIRD GRADE) who identified as the other gender. I was baffled but just went with it. In elementary we certainly were not touching on gender identities, sex ed etc. I have no clue what they teach in high school etc now considering how the world has changed, though I guess including anal sex might make sense at this point (never had a sex ed class myself and I figured everything out just fine lol).

Anyway there are many bad/burnt out teachers, especially in the higher grades and I can totally understand it. Every class I had in CA was over 40 students with at least 3 special needs children in the classroom. No parent volunteers, no teachers aids, just me with 40+ kids including some who were a serious handful by themselves.

Luckily I was a popular/fun teacher and I got the classrooms under control. The parents loved me and for the most part it wasn't too stressful, but I took over a 5th grade class half way through the year (Before I got my credentials) and the previous teacher (who quit halfway through the year) had no assigned seats and tried bribing the students with ice cream and pizza (then left without giving them any lol). That was my intro to teaching and the first 2 weeks were a serious trial. I think most would have noped right out and given up on teaching, but after 2 weeks, having them in assigned seating, knowing all their names etc, I got that classroom under control.

I feel bad for teachers in general even if some have just given up and barely do the minimum. The job is not fair, it doesn't pay enough for you to live off, and it has WAY longer hours than most people think if you are actively trying to teach your students. The teacher I mentored with Ms. Perino was an excellent teacher who had previous students come back and thank her year after year (after they were adults). She got there at 6 am and didn't ever leave till after 6 (and then corrected papers at home). I followed her method and spending that time/energy does make a HUGE difference in the learning environment, but you sure as heck are not getting paid anywhere near enough to warrant a 13-14 hour day. It's very rewarding to see the changes and difference you have made in your students lives, but it's also life consuming to actually do a good job, especially in places like CA with such large classes and so little resources.

I don't know if i'll be able to teach again anymore due to my eyesight etc, but if I do, I WILL NOT teach again with a teachers assistant to help me out. I can't handle the stress anymore, and I just won't have that much pressure and such long time requirements put on me again. It's better here in Washington from everything I have heard, but CA was rediculous. Teachers were totally unappreciated and the burn out rate was insane.

I'm old enough and from a secluded community so they had a 'don't ask don't tell' approach to anything sex related. There'd be girls actively talking about sex and the teacher would be like 'ok, math time please'

...

and that's why math makes me horny

Lokarin posted...

I'm old enough and from a secluded community so they had a 'don't ask don't tell' approach to anything sex related. There'd be girls actively talking about sex and the teacher would be like 'ok, math time please'

...

and that's why math makes me horny

That and all those o's and 1's and adding them together and eventually multiplying.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

It builds character or something I dunno

HornedLion posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/0/AAckHXAADMPa.jpg

And who are these people!?

To my knowledge teachers are not currently nor have they ever taught any of those things...

I do remember my health teacher talking about anal

Mensis posted...

I do remember my health teacher talking about anal

Not quite what I think the comment was going for. Well I suppose there are also some teachers who belong in jail who have directly instructed students on it.

HornedLion posted...

And who are these people!?

Didn't I get into an argument with a person advocating for that in another topic of yours?

BlackScythe0 posted...

Not quite what I think the comment was going for.

It's not, but it is what it's talking about. For some reason, many opponents of comprehensive sex ed seem to think it entails giving kids directions on how to have awesome sex, and their objection is based on how horrible that sounds. It's not exactly a very well-informed position.

That said, I don't entirely disagree with the basic premise of the tweet, just the idea that they're in any way mutually exclusive. You can teach kids that anal sex is a thing and what risks are associated with it and then also teach them how to do taxes. Just maybe not in the same class.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Teachers stop bullying all the time. Just because it sometimes doesn't happen doesn't mean it never happens.

As for the second point: do you think teachers decide curriculum?

ParanoidObsessive posted...

To be fair, teachers weren't teaching taxes, growing food, effective communication, and entrepreneurship 30 years ago either.

To be perfectly honest, teachers weren't teaching much of anything 30 years ago. And I doubt that's changed now.

They need to teach that stuff though. The majority of what school has taught me has been useless.

I asked what was algebra good for and I got told carpentry. Never used it when I worked construction. I needed a measurement I just measured it myself.

Science and history are nice to know but I wouldn't say (the more in depth stuff) is required to live a good life.

I don't have a problem with those classes as it is easier to learn when you are younger and you might get a job that needs that knowledge bur basic tips on how to survive adulthood is very important. Can't trust all parents to be able to impart that knowledge.

Like I bought my first car recently (been surviving on a truck I inherited) and I wouldn't have known what to do about anything if my mom wasn't able to help me. Dealer would probably have picked up on it and ran all over me.

There is a lot of things I'm blessed my mom has been able to walk me through. Not everyone has parents that can or will.

Hell I'd ad cooking to the list of essential classes. Have a basic culinary class just for knowing how to cook for yourself and family then an advanced one for those who wanna make it a career

Sufferedphoneix posted...

They need to teach that stuff though. The majority of what school has taught me has been useless.

I asked what was algebra good for and I got told carpentry. Never used it when I worked construction. I needed a measurement I just measured it myself.

Science and history are nice to know but I wouldn't say (the more in depth stuff) is required to live a good life.

I don't have a problem with those classes as it is easier to learn when you are younger and you might get a job that needs that knowledge bur basic tips on how to survive adulthood is very important. Can't trust all parents to be able to impart that knowledge.

Like I bought my first car recently (been surviving on a truck I inherited) and I wouldn't have known what to do about anything if my mom wasn't able to help me. Dealer would probably have picked up on it and ran all over me.

There is a lot of things I'm blessed my mom has been able to walk me through. Not everyone has parents that can or will.

Hell I'd ad cooking to the list of essential classes. Have a basic culinary class just for knowing how to cook for yourself and family then an advanced one for those who wanna make it a career

It's more complicated than that. One of the main issues ATM is that the educational... 'dialect'?... has basically become 'after high school go to college and study hard so you can get a job in STEM and earn lots of money or don't and spend the rest of your life flipping burgers at McDonald's.' That's all well and good for someone who has a bunch of talent in medicine and can become a doctor; but for someone whose primary talents are in woodcarving or stonework? Not only are Trade Schools almost never mentioned but there's very little support/framework in normal schools to even figure out what your skills might be. So you might be, like, an amazing plumber who outright enjoys the job but you'd never know because your school, instead, browbeat you into going to college to get a degree in tech that makes you a low-level data entry clerk who is eternally unhappy with their job.

The American school system is massively screwed because it follows a factory mindset from, like, the 1920's and steadfastly refuses to learn or change while constantly treading backwards (EX: More homework and less recess) and it's 'reforms' are focused on things like gender inclusivity. I'm not going to mock, approve, belittle, invalidate, or whatever else about that. I am going to ask why we're focusing on this sort of thing instead of trying to actually overhaul the whole rotten apple of a system. We have teachers who are nothing more than activists on both sides causing tons of trouble nation-wide while ignoring a lot of the teachers who legit care about their students yet lack materials, support, and struggle to make ends meet because of low pay grades.

Unbridled9 posted...

It's more complicated than that. One of the main issues ATM is that the educational... 'dialect'?... has basically become 'after high school go to college and study hard so you can get a job in STEM and earn lots of money or don't and spend the rest of your life flipping burgers at McDonald's.' That's all well and good for someone who has a bunch of talent in medicine and can become a doctor; but for someone whose primary talents are in woodcarving or stonework? Not only are Trade Schools almost never mentioned but there's very little support/framework in normal schools to even figure out what your skills might be. So you might be, like, an amazing plumber who outright enjoys the job but you'd never know because your school, instead, browbeat you into going to college to get a degree in tech that makes you a low-level data entry clerk who is eternally unhappy with their job.

The American school system is massively screwed because it follows a factory mindset from, like, the 1920's and steadfastly refuses to learn or change while constantly treading backwards (EX: More homework and less recess) and it's 'reforms' are focused on things like gender inclusivity. I'm not going to mock, approve, belittle, invalidate, or whatever else about that. I am going to ask why we're focusing on this sort of thing instead of trying to actually overhaul the whole rotten apple of a system. We have teachers who are nothing more than activists on both sides causing tons of trouble nation-wide while ignoring a lot of the teachers who legit care about their students yet lack materials, support, and struggle to make ends meet because of low pay grades.

I agree with that. I was just saying we need the schools to teach stuff outside what's gonna help you get a job. Stuff that you need to know as an adult to function in society. Or even basic survival should they find themselves stranded in wilderness or worse society collapses.
And this almost ties in with your post. I don't mind capitalism but it shouldn't affect schooling and that's what's happening here. On your side they are pushing expensive classes down kids throats. On my side they are seemingly expecting people to grow up and throw all their money at problems. Can't cook? OK there's restaurants or microwave dinners which ultimately will cost you more. Don't know shit about taxes? We got someone you can pay for that too.

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teachers are not police and this is the fault of litigeous parents for schools hands off approach to events occurring while it occurs and instead reporting it to the principal or admins later on for punishment.
the admins likewise will not make a rule if on who was the instigator or the victim and will simply indiscriminately punish anyone they see doing anything to another kid even if it was defending themselves (whether verbally or physically).

again litigious parents who single out the school rather than accept that their kid might be screwing up.

more and more work and responsibility is being heaped on teachers is why in the next few years you can expect a massive teacher shortage in many school districts.

fyi- usually private school teachers make way less money with way less benefits and way less job security the only benefit many of them have is access to a tuition free or reduced cost education for Their children. Which u less they have a litter of children translates to little over the course of 30-40 years of teaching.

HornedLion posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/0/AAckHXAADMPa.jpg

And who are these people!?

Anal sex: touched up on in sex Ed class and the importance of condoms in preventing stds even if you are not having vaginal sex and the a short note about lubrication and its purposes.

Changing genders: never touched on it, wish we covered it somewhere though. Maybe would have started earlier then and had less problems. Also quarterly mandatory counseling sessions just to see how students are doing and to catch any serious behavioral issues would have been nice

Taxes: personal finance, also covered making a budget, balancing checkbook, effective savings and recognizing good deals and bad deals.

Growing food: science class multiple years. Off the top of my head, growing strawberries in 1st grade, learning about the importance of genetics in 6th grade, biology in high school, and there were actually 2 agriculture electives at my school, but I didn't take them.

Communication, most English classes I have ever taken involved public speaking and effective communication in some form or another. Most commonly, book reports.

Entrepreneurship: covered in economics. Along with stocks and other fun things like that.

So ya, all good to learn about. Learning one doesn't discount Learning all of them.

Sufferedphoneix posted...

I asked what was algebra good for and I got told carpentry.

Honestly I think I've used more algebra playing video games than almost any other "real" application, which is kind of hilarious. It's extremely fundamental to anything programming-related (including doing pretty much anything more complicated than "add this column" in Excel, which has applications in a wide range of careers and even at home), so developing a solid foundation and at least understanding the mindset required to manipulate variables is a good idea, but any of the more advanced stuff is indeed thoroughly useless for the vast majority of people.

Trig is similar. You can put pythagoras/soh-cah-toa to use in the occasional context where you're building something and measuring is awkward, but even that's pretty uncommon, and the advanced stuff is totally useless outside of some very niche careers.

Sufferedphoneix posted...

Science and history are nice to know but I wouldn't say (the more in depth stuff) is required to live a good life.

In particular, there needs to be less focus on rote memorization of trivial details and more focus on building scientific literacy and intellectual honesty. The last two years have shown us very thoroughly just how bad the general public is at understanding scientific research and evaluating sources, as well as recognizing how little they know about subjects and having the integrity to accept that the more knowledgeable person telling them that they're wrong is probably right. You're never going to successfully give everyone even a basic working understanding of virology, but you don't need to do that for them to be able to understand when a given virology paper should be disregarded.

Sufferedphoneix posted...

Hell I'd ad cooking to the list of essential classes.

100%, especially focusing on how to plan meals around grocery store sales, bulk purchases, and busy schedules. The decline of home ec classes is really quite stupid, as is the idea that they're at all gendered (the traditional split being girls in home ec and boys in wood shop, but really, everyone should know how to cook/sew and everyone should know how to do basic home repairs).
Unbridled9 posted...

and it's 'reforms' are focused on things like gender inclusivity.

Really, that is part of where it needs to go. Ideally, education should be focused less on bombarding kids with information they'll probably never use (unless they seek out that information because they're interested in pursuing a career that would benefit from it) and more on providing them with the knowledge they need to live healthy, functional lives as adults. Sex ed is an important part of that, no less so than personal finances (arguably, avoiding pregnancy can actually be considered part of personal financing, but that's a little contrived). The issue is much larger than that, but addressing individual pieces of it (especially pieces that are already making meaningful strides in some regions and being actively attacked in others) is still part of ultimately solving it.

Unbridled9 posted...

Not only are Trade Schools almost never mentioned but there's very little support/framework in normal schools to even figure out what your skills might be.

When I was in school (~30 years ago) we had two years of forced "vocational" classes (specifically, Wood Shop/Metal Shop/Graphic Arts/Architectural Design - aka "Drafting" or "CAD"), which were combined with Art/Cooking/Sewing that everyone had to cycle through. And we had the ASVAB test, which is supposed to imply if you have aptitude for certain things (theoretically better to plan your future education/career track).

Though the problem is that those classes were woefully inadequate, the test was basically garbage, and both were administered at a time where we were barely formed as people (middle school rather than high school), to the point where they had almost no value whatsoever.

Based on everything we know about language development, we should definitely start those classes earlier (and it seems like they might be - at least they are in my local school system as far as I know). It would definitely be worthwhile to figure out at what age/stage of development vocational education/testing is most likely to be effective, and offer classes in that as well, if only to get a feel for which kids might actually be happier moving into a vocation/trade rather than chasing a college degree that will ultimately be worse than useless.

The school system as it stands - both basic education as well as higher education - needs a massive ground-up overhaul. But that would take way too much effort and costs money, so no politician will ever push for it and no citizen will ever support it. Which is why we're stuck in the hole we're in.



Sufferedphoneix posted...

I agree with that. I was just saying we need the schools to teach stuff outside what's gonna help you get a job. Stuff that you need to know as an adult to function in society.

Strong agree, though again timing is key.

I personally remember hating the "adulting" classes we had as part of our general "health" class (ie, the stereotypical thing where they give the kids a fake baby to care for, or force you to have a pretend job and try to balance your fiances while pricing apartment rental, car purchases, etc), and mostly going out of my way to avoid doing any of the actual work. In order for a "How to Be An Adult" sort of class to actually work, you'd have to administer it in a way that the students will engage with it, at a time in their development when they're actually capable of learning it/remembering it/benefiting from it.

(There might even be an argument that such classes shouldn't be part of the high school curriculum, but some sort of post-high school level of education. It depends on what age/stage students are most receptive to actually learn from the experience.)

I also think the absolute most important thing we should be teaching every student as strongly as possible as early as possible is long-term organizational thinking and critical thinking - to encourage them to actually think for themselves and not grow up to be utter moron adults regardless of how much "book smarts" they have. Especially in the modern age with the ubiquitous nature of the Internet and the flow of information, where learning facts and raw data is less important than training minds to actually process and research information for themselves.

But that's kind of hard to quantify, which is again why no one wants to bother figuring out how to do it. Even beyond the fact that teaching people to think for themselves is dangerous when you want them to keep voting for you.

Adulting should definitely be a class lol

The school system as it stands - both basic education as well as higher education - needs a massive ground-up overhaul. But that would take way too much effort and costs money, so no politician will ever push for it and no citizen will ever support it. Which is why we're stuck in the hole we're in.

I'm not so sure about that. I feel like the real issue is that people wouldn't SUPPORT an overhaul of schools (especially if it fixed the actual problems within them) even if it was costly, it's that they feel like, even if they did, it wouldn't work out. They'd blow a bunch of cash only to end up with something of roughly similar quality. NCLB and CC has blown a lot of peoples faith in the school system as a whole away. It doesn't help in the slightest that a lot of people on the left are advocating for heavily political subjects to be taught, getting teachers advocating for left-wing ideologies, and so-forth since this makes the right FAR less willing to support that sort of thing. This isn't about right, wrong, or otherwise. It's about getting the support needed. If one of the two major parties refuses to fund it because they feel it's going to be used to brainwash kids and the other is insistent on said things that the former believes to be brainwashing be included, it's gonna be a deadlock at best.