Board 8 > Elden Ring Mafia Topic 7: Consecratered Snowfield

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sheep007 posted...

I kinda understand this, I feel like I'm in a similar scenario with a ridiculous number of obvtown or clears for D2. But for me rn the simple explanation is that there's a scumteam comprised of Panth, IGCD, and Ulti. I think you can replace Ulti fairly easily in this situation purely because you're the only remaining person I don't lean heavily town on, but I really just need to sit down, see where you both stand today and reread overnight and tomorrow. I'd rather focus my rereads on players I'm happy I can actually read in the meantime, and then build a proper scumteam in a day or two after we have more lynches and info.

I would also ask that Sultan and Marth avoid claiming at the very least today, and maybe until D4 depending on the flip today and any info tomorrow. I think they look good enough to get a pass for that long.

Oh yeah, mind if I ask what that Panth scumtell is, Corrik?

Panth lurks as scum and posts in huge long posts. He does post in huge posts as town too, but the difference is the lurking. I noticed when someone mentioned Panth earlier not doing much that he came out soon after with a long post. Which signifies he is likely lurking.

PunishedBen posted...

I'm more than willing to sort it out. If I'm giving you a hard time its because pressuring someone is in the spirit of sorting them out.

My actions are not passive. That I dont need host clarification on anyway. Passive would be like a 1-shot bulletproof.

Yes, or a role that affects people that visit them, which is also part of why I was having paranoia about Red, I wasn't thinking about how a Miller discourages being visited when I thought it up though.

I've been able to more or less keep up at work, but the IGCD thing is a minefield, especially when you factor in Ben.

It doesn't really feel like an IGCD scum claim. I mean, it could be, given how it's.. Kind of totally useless this early in a game, but it's not an Avenue to pursue at the moment.

Panthera feels reserved has put up very little fight today I feel. Feels like low energy scum.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Yes, or a role that affects people that visit them, which is also part of why I was having paranoia about Red, I wasn't thinking about how a Miller discourages being visited when I thought it up though.

Miller claim discourages cop but it encourages tracker

Either way I'm fine with the claim at the moment.

Crescent-Moon posted...

Miller claim discourages cop but it encourages tracker

Either way I'm fine with the claim at the moment.

That's a good point.

Okay if IGCD is scum that very early post about N0 is really weird. Makes me feel a fair bit better

Everything else is mostly meh? IGCD was fairly active at the start of the game and then fell off a cliff. But I get where the town read is coming from with Ben. Nothing that screams scum to me, for sure, although I'm a little confused by his interactions with Crescent (which is honestly par for the course). I'm happy with him for the time being.

IGCD, could you tell me a little more about your reads? Not any off the wall theories you aren't sure of, just the town or scum reads you're most certain in.

Sheep007 posted...

IGCD, could you tell me a little more about your reads? Not any off the wall theories you aren't sure of, just the town or scum reads you're most certain in.

No. We all know my reads are pointless because I can't read shit. Even when I flip town no one is looking to read back on my reads for clues.

Don't care wanna hear em x

Thoughts on the game are still valuable even if they're wrong. Help me piece this together, even if it's just disjointed thoughts

Wait Ben is still claiming to be town and not 3rd party?? That seems a bit fishy to me.

Sultan's SBell argument is a really good look for him. No way that's scum/scum. I like his pressuring of Bat, and his questioning of just about anything that seems off to him, even if a lot of it I wouldn't agree on. I don't see scum faking content in that way

I also do not like how everyone jumped on the Sultan saying indy wagon. Sultan vaguely brought it up in topic 2 in reference to Isquen being a potential lyncher (I think that's the role he meant?) tunneling Crescent. Crescent actually focused on the indy thing a lot more, with Sultan not really seeming to care about it all that much? I think this is fine for Sultan but actually a bad look for Crescent and I will be getting irritated and arguing my case on this if anyone calls Sultan out for indy hunting D1 again

Sheep007 posted...

Don't care wanna hear em x

Thoughts on the game are still valuable even if they're wrong. Help me piece this together, even if it's just disjointed thoughts

I'm ok with Mzero, and Crescent in that order.

Everyone else is a toss up because I run in conspiracy theories.

oh boy I picked a bad time to defend Sultan indy hunting huh

Oh and Red because of the poison.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I'm ok with Mzero, and Crescent in that order.

Everyone else is a toss up because I run in conspiracy theories.

Even the Crescent take by itself is valuable

and anyone you like less?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Wait Ben is still claiming to be town and not 3rd party?? That seems a bit fishy to me.

I think we should drop it for now. I trust Chris and it sounds like Ben's gifts are pro-town. I'd also add that I have some additional thoughts on the messaging stuff which isn't valuable to talk about today, but if I'm correct it's also a pro-town use of it, and I think there's a solid chance that Ben is just straight up town.

Sheep007 posted...

oh boy I picked a bad time to defend Sultan indy hunting huh

Why? He is right. Ben is 3rd party.

Corrik7 posted...

Why? He is right. Ben is 3rd party.

I just think it's funny that I wrote a bunch of stuff defending Sultan only for him to do the exact thing I said he wasn't doing

More or less confused not actively hunting i thought he said he was and he gifted Chris

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

More or less confused not actively hunting i thought he said he was and he gifted Chris

He claims he isn't but he clearly is.

Okay thanks for the clarification

It feels weird praising someone for going after my slot but Sultan not liking Shoe consistently through the whole game and actually trying to pressure him is really good and feels natural. Bit of a tip though, Sultan: if you want to hear more from someone, be more forceful! Use your vote a bit earlier and try and get people who seem neutral on them to follow you, see your points or at least consider that player might be scum. You were saying he was scum or not around a lot without much to back it up. The read itself wasn't correct, but it'd have been really hard to know more without pressuring him in the first place.

anyway yeah I will murder anyone arguing Sultan is scum or trying to get him to claim before D4 that is a promise

Sheep007 posted...

I think we should drop it for now. I trust Chris and it sounds like Ben's gifts are pro-town.

This is a single gift that we dont even know if it was static based on who/which faction claimed it.

Nevermind that it wouldn't mean having some not pro town things to go with it that we dont know about.

Hell the pro town play on something like that is still opening post about it so we can sort things out before claiming.

It was definitely not something i would identify as pro town.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Ben might as well be since he's leashed.

Also didn't get around to talking about how much this bothered me last night because i was trying to engage with Ulti and he ran off.

But he was seriously whining about how town didn't murder third party immediately a couple games ago and now hes openly talking about a leash like its no big deal.

Turns out I don't have much time, so I'm going to have to keep it brief...just kidding, I had supper for breakfast and ice for lunch, it was 20 degrees Celsius a few days ago and I shoveled several inches of wet snow today, I've had enough time to get my thoughts straightened out.

Alright. I've been going over this in my head a fair bit but needed time to analyze it and make sure I was getting it right because it was a lot of little things that just kind of stuck out oddly, nothing major. But first off I need to address something else, which is my actual role. Hoped I wouldn't have to claim for real but not surprised, would have taken someone having an oopsie. And I see Chris is saying I moved, which is neat. Assuming he's picked up on this and figured it was easy to back down on and call a fun gambit to pass the time if needed. I'm actually poison doctor. Flavour is something called a preserving bolus. I ignored Crescent asking me for flavour last night because fuck if I know how to fake flavour claim from a game I've never played without a safelist to guide me. I brought up SBell's comment about saving Red in the hopes it would look like I was signalling to whoever the (poison) doctor was and thus it wasn't me. I didn't actually know for sure if I can heal on the night it's applied, night after or both because the wording is ambiguous but SBell kind of confirmed I can heal after the fact. My ability is infinite use which is a bit odd but I guess it's to guard against a crazy scum team that holds onto their poison for later in the game. Oh, and I targeted Crescent night 1 because I figured with how accepted as town she was that scum might pay her a visit and I didn't fully trust Chris and if he was poisoned I could potentially cure it night 2 anyway and get a confirm out of it (I was guessing on targets being notified, but that's how it worked when I was town poisoner in Godzilla mafia) assuming it works that way, which is a nice back up. Anyway, on to the meat of this. Speaking of not fully trusting Chris...

##Unvote
##Vote: Chris

I'm going to be covering a lot of ground here so buckle up. First I'm going to look at his defense of Isquen. I already cited how this didn't add up, namely that he was treating it as plausible for someone to go into four day tilt mode over a pair of posts mildly questioning a check in post, one from a person he views as certain scum. The case for town Isquen is for this to just be his personality as it pertains to scrutiny coming his way that he feels is unfounded, thus explaining that he was not tilted but simply getting angry at every individual post sent his way that did not show perfect faith in him. This is a plausible explanation (and at this point I think he is almost certainly town), "he got tilted by barely anything and it shut him out of playing for days on end" is not. Chris is known for his "newbie protector" tendency, where he defends less experienced players and deems himself very good at reading them. I think this is a sign he was emulating that persona to defend newish town Isquen like town Chris would, but he botched the approach to it just a little. It's essentially there, angrer at criticism leads to uncooperative player, but the exact reasoning isn't right and this isn't something Chris often gets wrong.

Continuing on this point is another thing he raised in defense of Isquen, which was a post from the latter about finding abrasive players like Ulti and Corrik distasteful. This was used to explain why he felt Isquen wasn't giving much content, he was just turned off from the game. And yet Isquen himself has been one of the most abrasive players in the game, arguably the most. Not someone who shies away from heated conversations, clearly. Once again this is Chris looking for the plausible reasons he'd defend the newbie town, but just not quite hitting the mark. Being turned off by some of the more aggressive parts of the game is a thing that could happen to a newbie for sure, it just doesn't work for this particular one (I also note Chris not really acknowledging Isquen is relatively new but not entirely new, which exacerbates things a bit). I don't think Chris responds so patiently to a scummate of his that is actively choosing to play spitefully so this points to Isquen being very likely town.

Now I'm going to move on to his actions towards the end of day 1. Chris heads into the final few hours of the day with his top suspects as myself, Ben and MZero. I'll come back to his behaviour directed my way but for now I just want to point out how sketchy a suspect list this is. MZero is confirmed town now. I'm town. And while Ben likely isn't town, we can be pretty sure he isn't on the scum team and thus would look town to scum. Of course Chris would end up jumping onto the Scare train and driving it home, which was of course a town lynch. This is a lot of not-scum Chris is looking to lynch day 1, which is not damning on its own (Chris likes his day 1 adventures) but is yet another small thing going against him because while day 1 is not his strongest point as town, he still usually has a better record than that.

As for the way it actually played out, I already covered the Ben progression before but I'll refresh you. Chris went from voting Ben to asking Ben to help him lynch Scare. Chris had maintained that Ben and I were both scum, then shifted over to wanting Ben to vote with him abruptly, but to vote someone who wasn't me even though I was part of his original targets and viewing Ben as town should have made me look worse for having been the first person to bring any suspicion onto Ben. His justification has changed a bit - the day of he said after he started appealing to Ben that he was leaning scum on him due to not liking his town reads but then started considering he might just be having a bad game, originally day 2 he brought up that he started trusting Ben when he realized Ben wasn't vanilla, then he remembered I had asked him and gave yet another explanation, that being that asking Ben to follow him was a test because he knew how scum Ben would respond. In theory all of these can co-exist but the way they were presented was off. In retrospect the shift between how he explained it on his own and how he answered me directly isn't as bad as I originally thought, the real problem is that his view on Ben shifting with the realization he was now claiming something other than vanilla makes perfect sense in the moment, makes perfect sense to acknowledge in the moment, and yet was not mentioned at the time. Chris' perspective on Ben at the end of day 1 just doesn't quite flow properly and his comments on it afterwards don't suggest it was coming from a totally genuine place.

continued

oh yeah i did want to ask, did we want to try and decide on someone to receive the blessing tomorrow, assuming that there's another one?

-----------------

I'll also note that Chris posted about how he wanted to put in a good show because he knows Plum well enough to expect a strongman and would die 100% night 1. Obviously did not happen, but remember that probably the biggest weakness scum Chris has is "why is Chris alive". Getting out in front of it by acknowledging he should die is a way to address it by giving him reason to look into why he was "wrong" about expecting his death. His explanation on day 2 is that scum had little fear of him if they killed Death and poisoned Red and that to him means he was too nice to some people. Now, does that add up to you with how the day played out? Chris expects to die for sure. Chris doesn't die. Chris assumes scum was unconcerned and he is thus wrong about something. And so he...follows MZero, half heartedly ISOs SBell to weak conclusions and goes back to wanting to lynch yours truly, the one person from his previous days suspect list he hadn't found reason to move away from. If he's thinking he lived because scum wasn't worried about him I am literally the last person that would qualify as not having reason to worry about him after day 1 ended.

I'm jumping ahead a bit but the vote freeze announcement is what finally helped things click for me. Chris jumped out to the strongman theory, then explained away his survival, but that alone doesn't guarantee he avoids rule 1. Being on a second mislynch, one that he led even if he wasn't the first vote on it (Marth suspected me earlier in the game but the overall mood on me never shifted to its current state until Chris listed me as one of his big three suspects), and then having the vote freeze? That works out. The vote freeze is too obviously "town clearing" to actually clear anything, but still feels kind of like it should. The game will naturally split on whether scum (even without SBell's flip I think we can agree we'd agree it was a scum power) would use it against town or to fake confirm themselves, and that split makes it cover. Put it all together and Chris has both provided himself a reason to be alive and something he can use as an excuse for why scum is supposedly leaving him alive to WIFOM the freeze issue. He even points out as soon as it happens that it was boring and he was expecting it would be on scum. Basically calling it out to make it look like it's not actually true. Plus, for all the time that Chris spent talking about lynching me, it's noticeable that he didn't vote for me until a few hours before he was going to have his vote frozen. Enough leeway to not look like he was squeezing it in but it ends up where he wants it. Was also around right when it happened, in case you think Plum being late (SBell's role states 24 hours is when the freeze happens, but Plum didn't confirm it until an hour and a half later than that) was the result of being pinged on the scum board to remind him.

And I want to note here that Chris made a big deal of wanting claims from the people in his PoE and voted Corrik for saying he wouldn't claim, but with no sign of me being online he just kind of sat his vote there for hours and joined up with Marth who was also in his PoE rather than turn his attention there at all. Even said at one point that he wanted to see the vote freezing thing tested before really going on further. Despite expecting it would be on scum, not him. There wasn't some need to rush on me - I haven't been super active, but I've been around consistently for a while each day and would obviously show up eventually. I've only gone significantly idle on purpose in one game ever, which Chris wasn't in and it was because I had my entire game picked apart to prove I was scum and I went quiet to avoid any risk of hurting my last scummate, whose position was already precarious (hi Corrik, you may remember I didn't show up upon being called for lurking, I actually lurked harder by disappearing forever, stop building your entire profile of me off imaginary strong town late games that never happened and one single scum game where I was active early and went silent when I realized I'd dug myself too deep a hole to escape). The games I've been scum with Chris in I've been high activity and have never hid from confrontation. As usual this is something that isn't damning on its own, could be a coincidence that he decided to wait on me when the freeze was coming, but the non-damning-on-their-own things aren't exactly on their own at this point, are they?

Now I'm coming to my final point, elements of which have been touched on before hand. And this gets into territory that relates to me and is thus not going to be as clear to anyone else, so I understand if people struggle to take it on faith, but it's important to my thought process and I think there is definite truth here. Chris' behaviour towards me simply hasn't added up as coming from a genuine town perspective. There's several things at play here. First off back when I first asked him for thoughts on Ben he replied by saying it was a bad question because he had just said he wanted to lynch Ben. The thing here is that Chris knows full well what kind of player I am - I don't value "vibe check" type comments highly, I try to analyze even the more gut/feel based reads I get ("calculated" is the word, been used as a negative lately but it's how I approach the game in general) and I like to have more substantial explanations to dig into.

At that stage in the game Chris seemed to be still doing that routine where he says the people he wants to lynch, but he actually means he wouldn't necessarily mind but he's really looking A) for how they respond to it and B) who, if anyone, follows his lead and how/why. This seems to fit with Ben, but it fails with me. He just knows better than to think that I wouldn't be looking for how he reached his conclusion on Ben, both to try to confirm my own read on Ben and to help my read on Chris himself. This extends to a few other comments - like him trying to tell me to unvote Isquen or die. I'll follow the lead of my town reads on certain things, but I *never* follow the lead of a player based purely on reputation when it's something I do not agree with them on, and threats and bravado don't matter to me. A similar comment was made yesterday about eagerly waiting to lynch me (said while not voting me, again he put that off a strangely long time, though I'll admit I'm not entirely sure what the purpose on that is. I would guess to give himself freedom to vote swap around before eventually settling where he wanted to be frozen?) which again, isn't going to achieve anything and he knows it, it's just theater for an empty arena so the people outside think there must be an audience inside getting something out of it.

continued

hoo boy

And this comes to a final pair of points, which is that besides my very first game of mafia ever, town Chris simply doesn't read town Panthera wrong for any meaningful length of time. He has only one time ever had a serious interest in lynching me, and it was because I showed up soon before deadline asking for a summary and admitting I had barely read anything because of how little time I had to catch up. He took that as a sign I wasn't putting in enough effort. But then I claimed a joke version of my flavour and showed how frustrated it was to get shit on literally for actually trying to play without being a perfect mafia god who can read multiple topics in ten minutes and it clicked for him and he never seriously doubted me again. We also b8 special'd onto town and bickered a bunch and he died and Corrik recovered from a bad day 1 to carry scum to victory, but that's neither here nor there. Point is, when I'm scum it's a bit of a mixed bag where I can usually be on his town list for a time before he figures it out and it comes down to whether he dies before he does, but when I'm town he straight up isn't wrong about me. I've only played with scum Chris once before that I recall so I can't compare directly (it was an eternity ago, I think he led a push to make me claim Mayor on day 1 or 2, that was Violin mafia which was like, Best Scum Game Ever for him so obviously I did not catch him there), but that does bring up one other point - I've never been wrong about town Chris either. The limited sample size of scum Chris means it could easily be a false positive where he just naturally comes across towny to me, but in practice I've consistently gotten town vibes from him and at most needed to go back and forth with him a bit. The most I ever went against that was FF7 Mafia where I ended the day somewhat neutral on him but still trying to push a lynch that wasn't his.

That was a long aside onto personal matters that probably don't hold a ton of weight if you're not in my head remembering everything, but it's a big part of my thought process and why I kept getting odd vibes from Chris that eventually led me to looking at him a bit closer and figuring this out. So I wanted to write it all out just to be absolutely totally clear on exactly what I'm thinking and why. I imagine a fair number of you won't read it or will only read part of it, but hopefully enough of you look into it to see why Chris is scum. I know it can sometimes take a lot to get Chris lynched on b8, so I'm willing to put in the work. His perspective just hasn't fully added up on several players. His suspect list has been distinctly sketchy. His arguments for a few players either don't fit together with his actions or just feel a bit rushed through to uphold the image you expect of town Chris. Nothing on its own is damning but when you look at it all together you start to see that there's just too much smoke for there to not be fire.

Oh, and as for Marth, I'm still leaning scum on him but going through things again this morning has me a bit less certain of it. Namely the fact that Chris didn't vote me until Marth kind of asked him to. Chris doesn't need an excuse to vote someone but if one comes up that gets him what he wants he might take it, but I doubt they coordinate it as scum. That doesn't rule out that Marth would simply post that on his own and Chris would think it was good timing for him, but it does make me less confident in that one. Still find his responses to me last night kind of reek of scum taunting town they plan on lynching for having played poorly but my grasp on that tone might be off. That said Sheep I will note that I've covered the issue with Marth and it's more than just that one post at me, he passes "the vibe check" but his actions don't click nearly as well.

I don't want to dwell nearly as long on self-defense, but I'll just point that as Sheep (hi Sheep) notes, catch up walls are what I do. I have literally always made lengthy posts when I return to the game after sleep or work or family or whatever and a lot has happened, and I always put effort into trying to explain my thoughts clearly. It's who I am. Notions of catch up walls meaning scum Panth are incorrect, they just mean I'm on the player list. As for votes, this frustrates me because the truth inevitably feels like bullshit, but the reality is that two things are true about me. First, I'm not known for good reads. Even when I'm playing at my best (which this game hasn't been, because my old best efforts all involve a level of activity that gets me too stressed out and I've never quite found the balance to be both effective and having fun) I've never had a good track record on finding scum, good town Panth generates content and engages a lot but doesn't actually produce strong results. Second, I've learned from experience that pushing on a lead I find does nothing for me. If I vote someone and people look into it and agree relatively quickly, great, but when that doesn't happen I don't change people's minds. Back in the day I would routinely spend days arguing the same splinter and if they ever got lynched it usually had little to do with me. I've never had success actually pushing a case on the same person repeatedly and it's never done more than annoy people that I keep harping on something no one cares about so I've cut back to just making the case once and not following up too much.

Maybe I've overdone that a bit and just need to find a better balance but frankly I don't think it would have changed much here, and I think my Chang, Isquen and Ben votes were all reasonable at the time. Chang was still fairly early and drew a response about his general posting style that helped give me a better idea of how to look at his posts, Isquen was kind of necessary in that you don't exactly have credibility in your game if you tell someone to do something or die and they don't do it and you just ignore them completely instead of trying to lynch them. I don't make that vote and next time I need to force a claim from someone with incomplete info on them, they ignore it and no one questions it because everyone knows I just say dumb shit without following up. And Ben was a guy who went very under the radar despite being fairly active and we know have pretty good reason to say he was deliberately aiming to achieve that, trying to drag attention onto him was a good idea. I may not have been correct (well, sort of on Ben) barring some galaxy brain scum gambit shit with Chang but I don't think any of these were bad ideas. In hindsight I wish I had pushed on Ben a bit more even though I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have done anything.

Lynching Chris is the way to go today. And if you choose to lynch me or someone else anyway, take another look tomorrow and recognize it will remain the way to go.

it's the fucking doctor shit after a scan again dear god put me out of my misery

Ok I simply cannot read that wall properly while at work give me like 1 1/2 hours

Panth I'm going to choose to not read that and remind you walls like that are the least effective method of communication possible. Can we get a TLDR version?

Sheep007 posted...

it's the fucking doctor shit after a scan again dear god put me out of my misery

I didn't believe Chris's scan claim and thought it was just provocation.

Just 3wasn't going to day that

Jesus that's a lot

There is the Panth I know. Town God. Whether right or wrong. He puts in work.

Leafeon13N posted...

Panth I'm going to choose to not read that and remind you walls like that are the least effective method of communication possible. Can we get a TLDR version?

The tl;dr version is that Chris is scum because his reasoning for various actions just doesn't add up to being from a genuine town perspective. He's explained away things retroactively with reasoning that makes sense but was not used in the moment despite being sensible to bring up, his defense of Isquen is a bit too going through the motions of being newbie protector Chris to be serious, his attitude in general has not been town and his suspect pool has been pretty shitty. I can't exactly sum up every individual point without just writing it all out again, sorry I really just don't know how to spell things out in a way that reflects my thoughts without being long winded.

Sheep007 posted...

hoo boy

hoo boy x2

i hope i have enough brain power right now to adequately make sense of this before the deadline.

Also part of my point here is that it's hard to summarize this because there isn't any one single thing I can point to that is the clear smoking gun and if you just glance through it it kind of feels like a bunch of minor shit, it's only when I really went digging through it more that it finally clicked for me

I don't really want to read all of that not going to lie lol

Oooh, he's pulling out the 'Never been wrong about town chris' card, now I kind of hope he is town so I can add this to my collection from just last game of tears.

This is what I get for being nice to Marth though, geesh

Ben I have a question for you when you're around but I want a very quick turnaround from when I ask to when you answer

Okay, I've caught up on the walls of text and I have some thoughts, but first...

Panth, let's say I'm not lynching Chris today and you're not gonna be getting enough others onboard to take him down. I'm a nice guy, I like winning, I don't wanna lynch claimed protection nor a potentially game-winning town player. Who else would I be voting today?

Sheep007 posted...

Okay, I've caught up on the walls of text and I have some thoughts, but first...

Panth, let's say I'm not lynching Chris today and you're not gonna be getting enough others onboard to take him down. I'm a nice guy, I like winning, I don't wanna lynch claimed protection nor a potentially game-winning town player. Who else would I be voting today?

Can never win if he is scum with that mentality though.

Very well Panthera, lets discuss. I am now going to copy/paste your full paragraphs because you type a lot

First paragraph:

Well isnt that an unfortunate coincidence if that turns out to be true. I suppose it is true a scum Chris could decide, after one of his members of scum is shot dead, to claim power just for the fun when you were probably already on your way. Of course the truth is that I was just being transparent with my night action.

Paragraph two:

Ah, so Chris was probably right and is thus scum, a curious tact. While it is true I will do my best as scum to emulate this, because of course I will, I find nothing wrong with me not wanting to lynch a person in their second game when their crime was mostly seeming to be very frustrated and apparently very busy with work. There isnt much guile to be found here despite your claims. He looked really mad day one, and I didnt want that to be a death sentence because new players are prone to overreact. The exact reasoning is largely unimportant for this type of read. It is a blanket statement type read. I am not claiming to know Isquens soul here, but rather advising to give him a day to cool off and to give better effort day 2 as day 1 lynches of that variety have a high misfire rate. In fact, this paragraph is a demonstration of you displaying this fault and not I. You read what I wrote with Isquen and think to yourself he defended Isquen day 1, let me attack this but if you go back and read how I defended him precisely you would understand the tact I discussed with Crescent was one of prudence not me claiming to actually have any genuine concrete read.

Paragraph three:

I never said I didnt find Isquen to be a hypocrite. Yes, Isquen was super abrasive but he also clearly had a problem with being abrasive with others. I told no lies lol.

Paragraph four:

Meh, well see if you do indeed flipping town but point of order as Ben has pointed out my Mzero push was largely very bait heavy to see what stirred up. Further I would expect you to be much better than to be results based only when discussing this type of point. For example, the Scare lynch was indeed town but you didnt offer any defense of him at the time. Do not believe for a moment that I forgot that you said youd try to make it back by end of day 1 but you were silent as town killed one of its own. Perhaps if you had such a problem with my methods day one you could have been there to discuss it with us. Conveniently, your silence allows you to sit in judgment of my methods and to condemn them. For example, I killed town IGCD last game and didnt really have any scum suspects in my day 1 lynch list. I had the whole scum team nailed by day 3.

Paragraph five:

For one, there is nothing wrong with having people you were or are somewhat suspicious of voting with you to try to lynch people. You keep acting as if this is some weird thing but getting reactions out of people is pretty common Id say. Also another point in this is that I dont think my progression is very odd at all and I even marked in topic when I thought I had clued in on something about Ben doing a stupid. Also I would almost never consider anyone targeting town very early day one as any foundation for a scum read for far too many reasons. I dont know if you are just town having a sheep adventure (sorry sheep) or scum trying to twist this, but there were many reasons for my evolving read of Ben. I also dont tend to just forget whole conversations, and especially so as scum. Thats a very dangerous habit to get into when you are supposed to keep your story straight. In fact there have been studies done and it is believed people are usually being more truthful when they add details to a story because when asked to recall it they will remember different details each time. I had a lot of interaction with Ben yesterday, and it wasnt any one post that made me feel like he was on my side, but a lot of different things that I could point to and that I have. It doesnt flow properly because it isnt a script, but rather an imperfect remembering.

that should have said not going to at the start, but yeah. If you want to play along at home just match the paragraphs lol. I will read the rest later

Corrik7 posted...

Can never win if he is scum with that mentality though.

It is a hypothetical. I'm leaving my precise thoughts for after I get my answer

Post 2 Paragraph 1:

Yeah, I admit it was really awful how I lived to day three in the last mafia game. Everyone couldnt believe it. Hey Sheep you lead the lynch, want to tell him how awful it was when I lived to day 3 or should I tell him the bad news? Maybe we should talk about how I lived to day 3 or 4 in the game before that and how anti-town I turned out to be, that was FFXIV. I am using a bit of sarcasm to say I have been pretty long-lived lately as town to my happiness, so scum chris really wouldnt want into the game mid day one with the mindset of having to explain such things. As for my statement, actually yeah. I cleared Sbell too quickly and he got himself shot and was scum. I believe my world view is pretty spot on and that there is probably at least one more person in my good vibes list yesterday that shouldnt have been there. Again you attack my play (weak conclusions about Sbell) but you dont provide any ground there yourself. If you or anyone can extract more from Sbell, I am more than welcome to hear it. If I was right about you but wrong about your team mates I fully trust you to not be prideful for your own sake and work on instilling paranoia about me.

Honestly I kind of rolled my eyes about the vote freeze. There is a reason I was never like GUESS I AM CONFIRMED TOWN LOL because I understood the wifom immediately. I also like how you are trying to say it was within a few hours as if the day isnt 2 days long. There is only going to be so much time to and from a 24 hour mark, and this point is extremely contrived. We all knew that someones vote was going to be frozen, so yes I admit it I had my vote on one of my scum suspects. Guilty as charged. Also guilty that I was active in the topic for a large part of the game since I replaced in, guilty there as well.

As for why I voted for you Marth moe or less asked, so I decided to. Sometimes I am just nice like that. Not everything has to be a huge conspiracy, sometimes I am very earnest.

Okay this is getting to be a bit much geesh

changmas posted...

Ben I have a question for you when you're around but I want a very quick turnaround from when I ask to when you answer

I'm here now.

Also just read the new panthera claim. Yeah that's a reaction to Chris claiming a scan. No way I believe that. Panth is scum

PunishedBen posted...

I'm here now.

Also just read the new panthera claim. Yeah that's a reaction to Chris claiming a scan. No way I believe that. Panth is scum

i've decided it prolly does more harm than good to ask so i'm not asking anymore. sorry for the false alarm lol