Board 8 > Elden Ring Discussion 3 Sword of Dark and Spark

(+) Yeah! (+)

Actually ok with the Mimic nerf though Tiche feels good and is way harder to get so that's satisfying

The other option I think they maybe should have gone with is adjusting the HP cost of Mimic. I wonder if it costing 1500 hp or so to really force you to have a lot of vigor to use it would have made it more balanced.

Tag

My main problem is that they didn't advertise that they'd nerf things to this extent so people have been happily putting time and in-game resource into their builds and now they are busted. And the only real boost for those people is "hey look you can buy smithing stone [1] easier now". If you used those items then you should have your materials refunded.

As for the nerfs, hoarfrost needed to be nerfed so that it wouldn't stun bosses. Bloody slash imo was OK, but the amount of flasks you get is the real problem. Mimic tear needed an FP cost in addition to HP. I feel like they just needed to increase the trade-offs for the cheese. And I love cheese.

Tiche is very nice and yes it's not super easy to get and 132 FP sucks if you're melee

that's like a whole extra 8 minutes of watching a bird fall off a cliff WTF

neonreaper posted...

that's like a whole extra 8 minutes of watching a bird fall off a cliff WTF

What on earth are you talking about

neonreaper posted...

132 FP sucks if you're melee

that's what the flask of wonderous physick is for

Peace___Frog posted...

What on earth are you talking about

the vulture rune farm - if I need to boost my mind stat I just go do that and it's super quick. I'm just poking fun at my own argument.

neonreaper posted...

Tiche is very nice and yes it's not super easy to get and 132 FP sucks if you're melee

I mean what else are melee builds putting their points into? You get so high leveled in this game. Do you really need to take Endurance to soft cap?

God I am not looking forward to more Godskin guys

Tag

Looking at the patch notes, good thing I never got around to using any of the broken stuff lol. Actually I did try out the Mimic Tear for Astel, I could see for other bosses how that could be. Still with my Bloodhound's Fang! Maybe I should get my Arcane up for the supposed bleeding effect? I haven't touched Arcane at all yet

Arcane effecting bleed only on weapons that have Arcane scaling.

It's not just bleed, if something scales with Arcane it effects any buildup. Same goes for poison and frost.

Ohhhhhh alright that makes more sense, I kept only hearing about it with bleed and in my head I was like why is that a thing lol

I've considered playing around with respecing since I have I think 8 larval tears and fucking around with some of the weps I've accumulated, like going full Blaidd with his sword and see how that goes

DEX/Faith should be viable right?

I'm considering a re-run where I dual-wield katanas and cast buff incantations.

And this is after the Platinum. GUESS THE GAME WAS GOOD AFTER ALL.

Was barricade shield really that overpowered? The fact that they nerfed it makes me think they might just be looking at use statistics and nerfing everything popular

I'm guessing they nerfed it because they buffed shields, but I'm not sure.

So I managed to beat the 2nd last boss after putting on some magic robes, spending all of my remaining Somber stones to get a +10 Lusat staff and just spammed him down with pebble because apparently after the whole 70+ hour game, the beginning spell is STILL the damn best one.

And then I got to the beast form of the final boss and uhhhhhh, there's no way I'm beating that, I don't even have enough FP or pots to get through that much health.

Any help? I'm locked into a sorc build because I don't have any more resources to make a different one because I'm at the final boss now and I'm sure like half of the quests are broken now because of it.

Are you using spirit summons? I know you said you don't have Mimic, but you could always go grab it (or one of those other great summons people keep mentioning), which makes the fight quite a bit more bearable. Obviously Tiche is too many hoops to jump through and you might as well grab Mimic instead, but I think Oleg is supposed to be pretty decent? He's available right off the bat, and if you have endgame stats, he'll be easy to get.

I think they only nerfed Mimic's damage and aggressiveness, not its health - and health is the primary reason everybody was using it, so you could try that.

When I went back to Roundtable, Spirit girl is gone.

Zigzagoon posted...

When I went back to Roundtable, Spirit girl is gone.

She moved to the fireplace.

Bane reminded me - I've seen the complaints about Malenia being a Sekiro boss, and now I know that's for good reason! However: let us not let Astel off the hook for being a Bloodborne boss. He's a lot more "fair" than her relatively speaking but his attacks are still pretty cheap in a "Souls" context and you also get to fight the actual hardest attack of Bloodborne bosses - the camera. Fuck that guy! (Said affectionately, I do love the design and the lore being straight outta Bloodborne is also great)

And having used Mimic Tear to beat Astel pre-nerf for the Legend version and post-nerf for the weaker Yelough Tunnel version I can say it's still extremely good despite lower performance. Noticably less tanky but still very tanky and still outputs significant damage, especially if you are using it to double up on status application. Still makes me want to experiment with other Ashes for different situations. The only other +10 I have is Latenna who I only upgraded because she's a good girl who deserves it, and she's a bit too situational to bust out often.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

She moved to the fireplace.

Why would she go there!

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

And having used Mimic Tear to beat Astel pre-nerf for the Legend version and post-nerf for the weaker Yelough Tunnel version

What do you mean by legend version? The one you fight as part of the Ranni questline? If so, how is that version weaker than the Yelough Tunnel one? Naturalborn of the Void was perfectly fine if a bit tanky, whereas Stars of Darkness had a fairly bullshit grab that was very hard to dodge and OHKO'd at full health, 40+ Vigor and with defense+ talismans and heavy armour

Zigzagoon posted...

Why would she go there!

Depression

Honestly Astel didn't bother me much, like I ended up using the Mimic Tear since I hadn't used it yet and wanted to test it out but that was after I had fully learned Astel's moveset and it was just about getting it done. He has a few tricky things the teleport to grab and the gravity lift to slam but you can time your dodges for those once you know when it's coming but he can whiff a decent amount and has a bunch of space under him to hit him

Crumbling....
Ohey its that area that DS3 always wanted to create

Solfadore posted...

What do you mean by legend version? The one you fight as part of the Ranni questline? If so, how is that version weaker than the Yelough Tunnel one? Naturalborn of the Void was perfectly fine if a bit tanky, whereas Stars of Darkness had a fairly bullshit grab that was very hard to dodge and OHKO'd at full health, 40+ Vigor and with defense+ talismans and heavy armour

Both versions have that move. I guess I'm not quite sure which one is "supposed" to be harder in terms of damage scaling though. The game just gives you a Legend Defeated message, trophy, and Rememberance for the Ranni version so I assumed it was that one.

Bane_Of_Despair posted...

Honestly Astel didn't bother me much, like I ended up using the Mimic Tear since I hadn't used it yet and wanted to test it out but that was after I had fully learned Astel's moveset and it was just about getting it done. He has a few tricky things the teleport to grab and the gravity lift to slam but you can time your dodges for those once you know when it's coming but he can whiff a decent amount and has a bunch of space under him to hit him

Maybe my problem was trying to hit him in the face for the full damage, it makes all his attacks much harder to track and dodge, especially the ones that hit a wide area.

I hear a lot of people talk about Astel being tough and I guess I just dodged a bullet with good attack RNG. One of the easiest bosses in the game when I took him on. I think I may have not gotten hit?

Meanwhile, Magma Wyrm is supposedly easy and I died over a dozen times getting my Moonveil.

the game kicked me out to patch last night right after i warped back to roundtable hold- only to find it all dark/smashed and and with an invader. what a cliffhanger! i sincerely hope nothing glitched out... won't find out until later today when i can play

I definitely hit Astel in the face a chunk, it just got to the point with me that I would dodge right into his face and set myself up to hit it (or even Bloodhound's Finesse it if I wanted to get fancy). I did do some hits on just his legs though when I wanted to play it safer during parts

So I'm pretty far into the game now and haven't gotten there yet - how do you get to the place southwest of Stormhill Castle?

Mac Arrowny posted...

So I'm pretty far into the game now and haven't gotten there yet - how do you get to the place southwest of Stormhill Castle?

You mean that island? One of the Belfry teleports if you've gotten to those yet, I believe the one sort of on the right side of them?

Oh hm, I never used any of those. Maybe I should check them out...

Mac Arrowny posted...

Oh hm, I never used any of those. Maybe I should check them out...

I just found my way to that island yesterday!

Yeah I dunno. I definitely had more trouble post-nerf Tear than pre-nerf Tear but that could be due to scaling or forgetting the muscle memory of my learning runs for the second attempt more than differences with the summon's behavior or targeting or something. I dunno!

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Meanwhile, Magma Wyrm is supposedly easy and I died over a dozen times getting my Moonveil.

Magma Worm was highly variable for me too. The first time I fought it at an appropriate level and it was easy. The other two times...well once I was underleveled and it was a pain, the other I was overleveled and it was obnoxious but a stomp. It's mostly due to the attack pattern RNG I think. If he just decides to run around barfing lava repeatedly and there's nowhere good to stand you lose a ton of free uptime AND it's harder to dodge.

To clarify regarding Astel, there are two versions of the boss. One is called "Naturalborn of the Void" and is fought near the end of the Ranni questline, and is a perfectly fine and fair boss. It has big tells, and the only tricky move is a grab attack which can still be dodged fairly consistently, and if not, doesn't kill in one hit anyway with decent vigor.

There is another version in a Consecrated Snowfield dungeon with beefed up stats, which make the fight last much longer. It's still the same otherwise, except its grab attack is different and much harder to dodge: instead of just grabbing you, it will spawn 10 copies of itself which will all try to grab you at once, and will connect with you anywhere in the room. If you fail to dodge, it's a one-hit kill at full HP with endgame stats. To be clear, the grab CAN be dodged, but it's much trickier, and you can only practice it once every 5 minutes since he only does it in the second phase.

I found the 2nd fight a bit frustrating since there was a lot of RNG as to how often it does the grab. Not beyond the pale for Soulsborne games, but a bit unbalanced still.

And I was surprised to see that apparently, some feel the OHKO Consecrated Snowfield version is easier? Not my experience!

I beat the second one last night. Had an infinitely easier time with him.

However I mentioned originally in the original topic that I was most likely severely under leveled, and I was probably over leveled for the second one. However I play both almost about 10 days apart and didnt notice too much of a difference in attack patterns.

Oh okay I didn't see that variant of the grab. Otherwise I was probably underleveled for the first time. That's why it seemed backwards.

man they pitched mimic tear right when I was about to fight malenia

feel like I could've beaten her pre-patch, but today I cannot

Oh of course the Assassin has an instakill grab attack

I am starting to wonder why I ever dont drink Physicks

I'm wondering if Malenia was nerfed in the patch under "other enemy balance changes." I saw some people on Reddit comment that apparently her Waterfowl Dance does less damage now, and is actually survivable? Haven't tested myself, but for those who are attempting, I'd be curious to know.

Of course, this doesn't fundamentally change the fight IMO, which is still stupidly hard even if you nerf Waterfowl Dance.

Yeah her lifesteal is what needs to be nerfed a bit.

I think it's kind of unfair to hit mimic like that considering it can only be used in single player.

I'm actually happy Mimic got nerfed. My issue with the endgame (other than Malenia) is that bosses are either way too hard solo, or way too easy with Mimic or a similarly busted summon. Nerfing Mimic clarifies FromSoft's intent for me: we were always supposed to use summons, and the fights were balanced with this in mind. This raises the difficulty of endgame bosses with Mimic/summons closer to a balanced level, where victory feels meaningful.

...now they just need to nerf Malenia herself, since she was either too hard with a strong summon, or insanely difficult without one. But we're part of the way there, and I'm hopeful they'll adjust in a future patch.

What's up with the giant enemies in the valley next to the Old Altus Tunnel? They all die in one hit and give no runes. Are they related to a quest?

Solfadore posted...

I'm wondering if Malenia was nerfed in the patch under "other enemy balance changes." I saw some people on Reddit comment that apparently her Waterfowl Dance does less damage now, and is actually survivable? Haven't tested myself, but for those who are attempting, I'd be curious to know.

Of course, this doesn't fundamentally change the fight IMO, which is still stupidly hard even if you nerf Waterfowl Dance.

Didn't try before the patch but getting caught by one flurry string would still easily kill me at 40 vigor and RL ~130-5. The Mimic Tear can tank it and survive although she gets healed so much it's basically a wash. Still not sure how to deal with it besides crazy precision dodging.

I'm probably way underleveled but I have no idea what people are trying at. Damage gets scaled a lot with defense (which for players is tied to level) so that's part of it. Also means reports are skewed if people are doing comparisons before and after they leveled up a bunch.

(also notably I have not started burning rune arcs on that fight yet, which might also make a difference since Godrick's adds 40 levels)

edit: post below reminded me I'm also wearing the best phys reduction talisman as well as the +5 int one and +3 hat which I think bumps my effective level up more

I'm level 135 with 35% damage negation on physical (super heavy armor) and 45 vigor and I can't survive her crazy spin attack. If I get hit during the first part from full health it leaves me with a sliver left which is RIP in the next part. If she winds up for that attack and you're too close it just feels like auto death, very stupid.

I don't actually think she'd be a very difficult boss without that SINGLE attack. I have to hope she targets my Mimic or I'm just dead.

I guess I'm going to try Tiche instead since I have that already but I can't imagine that summon lasts very long in this fight.

Mac Arrowny posted...

What's up with the giant enemies in the valley next to the Old Altus Tunnel? They all die in one hit and give no runes. Are they related to a quest?

theres some weird illusion stuff going on near there, I assume its meant to be related to that

Hopefully not one as terrifying as Wormface being disguised as a giants corpse